Vote on PvP access control over PvE areas. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

mikkel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

01 Mar 2007 at 08:43 - 401

Many of the PvP proponents here still do not seem to understand that most PvE players are casual players who have jobs and real world responsibilities.

Unlike you people, we can't dedicate 7 hours a day to a game. We -definitely- don't have 7 hours a day to dedicate to playing a game mode that isn't fun so that we can have a one in a million chance to unlock an area that actually -is- fun.

No, we won't "learn how to HA" because we have neither the time nor the desire to PvP. If we wanted to PvP, we would have done so from the beginning.

The vast majority of the people here who have suggested that PvE players just PvP for favour (Most of them spitefully, too. Immaturity is an even bigger problem in PvP than it is in PvE.) would cry their eyes out if the tables were turned and ragequit in protest only to crawl back like rats when ANet gave in and seperated the two.

Most PvP players are like small children who're used to getting their will all the time. If something doesn't please them, ANet fixes it for them. As soon as PvE players want a change, they come out by the boatloads, trolling PvE players for no good reason. PvP undeniably generates the biggest amount of tears in Guild Wars by far. Don't be hypocrites. Crawl back to your HA and resume your crying and whining about how everything is overpowered and nothing is how it should be.

This "You won't fight me in this internet game so I'm going to taunt you because I'm better than you and it makes me feel big" way of compensating for your crippled social lives is getting *really* old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mechz

PvE players are generally wimps when it comes to playing things that... think.

IWAY, bspike, SF, air spike, ranger spike, ect. Yes, PvP is the epicentre of deep thought.

rong626

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2006

hell

Woot

P/W

01 Mar 2007 at 09:07 - 402

another version of alliance battle?/woooo

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

01 Mar 2007 at 09:19 - 403

How about if we can't have our PvE game independent of some random group of PvPers actions, fix the favor system so it actually represents what's happening?

"Some Random Group [PvP] has won a battle in the Hall of Heroes, and the Gods don't know what to make of it because they hail from an International District."

No one gets favor when this happens.

If you can't please everyone the same amount, at least make them all equally miserable.

Maximumraver

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

The Netherlands

Twisted Revenge [TR]

E/

01 Mar 2007 at 09:31 - 404

I like the favor way.
Not much to add besides that.

Horseman Of War

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

The Cult of Doom

P/

01 Mar 2007 at 09:36 - 405

my vote sides with the devs.

/yes

its part of the lore, and I doubt itll ever change. thats what makes Uw/FoW cool in the first place.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

01 Mar 2007 at 10:04 - 406

It's not part of any lore I've ever read. I can't find any passages in the GW lore that mention Europe, America, Korea, Japan and Taiwan. Mmm... perhaps that's because the game isn't about our own world?

Lord Pharoah

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

EastCoast USA

Lords Of Mastery

R/

01 Mar 2007 at 10:22 - 407

I understand what ANET was trying to do in the begining and it was a nice way to tie the whole game in together with you advancing through in PVE and after Ascension reaching PVP. In that light the way favor works made since. However the game has not since progressed that way, neither was it ever really played that way. As it turns out most people who really want to spend their time fighting for favor have no desire to go to FOW/UW and those who desperately wish to go to FOW/UW often don't wish to compete for favor. Perhaps some PVE form of earning favor temporarily can be worked out.

My vote:
No

Tromador

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Monks Unleashed [MU]

01 Mar 2007 at 14:48 - 408

Nice post from Kate-with which I mostly agree, however...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kate Soulguard

FOW / UW: Implemented in Prophecies, exclusive access is predicated on a player being in the favored territory when they go to a shrine.

Design remediation for legacy titles becomes a very low priority over time.

FOW/UW are quite specifically not Legacy.

They are the two elite dungeons that everyone can access regardless of which chapters they own.

The elite zone for Prophecies isn't FoW/UW as has been suggested, but rather it is SF - if we think back far enough, SF was specifically added as a "hard" place for endgame characters. Also Tombs I guess.

I am presuming that upcoming chapters will continue to provide access to FoW and UW. Accordingly ANet do need to look at this current and topical issue.

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

01 Mar 2007 at 14:57 - 409

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromador

PvPers playing with their friends probably make good PvEers, but they can suck for PUG groups.

I played Ring of Fire with this group, including a PvPer playing a monk. The party went down, due to some stupid typical puggish nonsense, but we could have gotten going again, except the last man standing, the PvP player didn't have a rez.

"Monks don't carry rez."

I patiently explained that in PvE, players expect a monk to have Rez, even though I completely understand why they don't in PvP. If you want to play with pugs, you need to adapt to the environment.

For my pains I got flamed and called a "PvE Noob!"

I submit that it was the PvP player who was the PvE noob.

Of course this goes to illustrate the differences in the game.

For the record, whilst I've played some amount of RA, I would surely describe myself as a PvP noob - but a damnably well experienced PvE player.

This is complete crap. If the pug group didn't fail so hard he wouldn't have needed a res. Any monk who isn't completely garbage shouldn't gimp his bar because of a retard. just kick the retard. People really need to not learn to not suck so hard at the game. that's the problem here, I think accomadating for their suckiness is pretty sad.

teenchi

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

PST

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

W/Mo

01 Mar 2007 at 15:04 - 410

Another No vote here. I don't think PvP should be in control of access to PvE access areas. It really stinks waiting around till almost 10pm on a weeknight waiting for UW access when I won't have much time to spend there since I've got a full time job.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

01 Mar 2007 at 15:32 - 411

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

This is complete crap. If the pug group didn't fail so hard he wouldn't have needed a res. Any monk who isn't completely garbage shouldn't gimp his bar because of a retard. just kick the retard.

When you PuG, you adjust your game. The retard is the one not adjusting his game to the fact that he's playing with people whose abilities might not be all that good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

People really need to not learn to not suck so hard at the game. that's the problem here, I think accomadating for their suckiness is pretty sad.

Not all of them are going to learn. It's ludicrous to expect them to. We don't live in a perfect world. If you can't or won't adjust your game to prevailing circumstances, you have a very serious problem. It's called 'noobishness'.

jcapulet

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

01 Mar 2007 at 16:29 - 412

Quote:

Originally Posted by pork soldier

First, the UW and FoW are a reward for your region doing well in the global tournament, you aren't entitled to them all the time.

I’m not sure how favor is a reward for PvE players of a given region, because they don’t play PvP. For PvE players, either you have it or you don’t.

Due to having a daytime job, I am usually asleep between midnight and 7 am…and, this is when America usually has favor. A majority of the time that I and many others play, we just don’t have favor. As a PvE-only player, I guess I’d only be able to visit the UW or FoW if I can play in my sleep.

Many here have made some very good-and smart- suggestions for alternate (not free) access to the UW and FoW. Access to the UW or FoW doesn’t have to be based exclusively on PvP.

Series

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2006

01 Mar 2007 at 16:54 - 413

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

This is complete crap. If the pug group didn't fail so hard he wouldn't have needed a res. Any monk who isn't completely garbage shouldn't gimp his bar because of a retard. just kick the retard. People really need to not learn to not suck so hard at the game. that's the problem here, I think accomadating for their suckiness is pretty sad.

Yes, because I am sure that you have never made a mistake in an online game? Hooray for fulfilling the typical PvP elitist stereotype and making us all look bad.

Pakana

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2007

01 Mar 2007 at 17:00 - 414

I don't believe Arenanet will listen. Do you? There's huge issues that players have brought to them, but just don't get fixed. And old content never gets touched. I've lost my faith to Arenanet long time ago.

Kushiels_Scion

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ohio

Dragon Warrriors

W/P

01 Mar 2007 at 19:30 - 415

Anet refuses to listen sometimes it seems. It seems to me with all their PvP only items and the whole system of PvP and PvE in relation they believe that PvPers are better than those that like to play the real campaigns. Throw a PvPer into the environment of the game and see what happens, they have to learn what to do all over cause your facing NPCs that react much differently and can be much higher levels than they are. Vice Versa have a PvEr try out pvp, and they can get anywhere at all because of all the balancing needed in builds. The difference is that the PvEers would help out PvPers new to coming into the environment of the game and successful PvP people want nothing more than to gloat their rank and care less that others have no chance at being able to participate because of their wanting only 'ranked' players. The system i the faultiest as ever and ruins it for people that want PvP only items but cant afford or earn it. This isnt exactly about PvE vs PvP in controling UW and FoW but ive already posted to that. This is just another few cents being thrown out their. Devour if you will.

Smile Like Umean It

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

E/Rt

01 Mar 2007 at 19:33 - 416

Except the favor affects all chapters. It may be an old issue, but it will constantly affect new stuff(shrines, fow, uw).

TabascoSauce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Virginia, US

TFgt

W/Me

01 Mar 2007 at 19:45 - 417

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushiels_Scion

The difference is that the PvEers would help out PvPers new to coming into the environment of the game and successful PvP people want nothing more than to gloat their rank and care less that others have no chance at being able to participate because of their wanting only 'ranked' players.

In a competitive environment, should an experienced PvP'er educate a new PvP'er, he has simply armed an adversary. There is no incentive to help others there, because helping others ultimately makes your life as a competitor harder.

What you say is 200 percent true!

Thx!
TabascoSauce

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

01 Mar 2007 at 21:01 - 418

Make favor depend on a PvE concept perhaps? Every time you beat the lich/shiro/abadon you get "favor points" for your region?

Keithark

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Be Aggressive B E Aggressive [AGRO]

E/Me

01 Mar 2007 at 21:21 - 419

I would love to see a system where PvP had to have "favor" that is decided by PvE to go to GvG...if your region has favor (lets say highest score on challenge missions) you can get in a GvG but if not you cannot GvG..same with HA. Then I would like to come to this forum and say /notsigned to all of THEIR posts to remove favor like they do to ours

Tyrnne

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

USA

Swords of Honor (Officer)

Mo/Me

01 Mar 2007 at 22:04 - 420

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

I would love to see a system where PvP had to have "favor" that is decided by PvE to go to GvG...if your region has favor (lets say highest score on challenge missions) you can get in a GvG but if not you cannot GvG..same with HA. Then I would like to come to this forum and say /notsigned to all of THEIR posts to remove favor like they do to ours

While that sounds fair, it would make the life of forum moderators very difficult. Your idea would cause so much crying and flaming and cursing from the PVP crowd that moderators would have to spend all day editing and deleting the endless protest posts.

Swift Thief

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2007

Aatxe Pirates [YaRR]

A/

01 Mar 2007 at 22:30 - 421

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

my vote sides with the devs.

/yes

its part of the lore, and I doubt itll ever change. thats what makes Uw/FoW cool in the first place.

It doesn't make the UW and FoW cool because all Europe does is hog the favor. Also, what does America, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, and Europe have to do with the lore?

TabascoSauce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Virginia, US

TFgt

W/Me

01 Mar 2007 at 23:54 - 422

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

I would love to see a system where PvP had to have "favor" that is decided by PvE to go to GvG...if your region has favor (lets say highest score on challenge missions) you can get in a GvG but if not you cannot GvG..same with HA. Then I would like to come to this forum and say /notsigned to all of THEIR posts to remove favor like they do to ours

Best idea I have heard all week.

Thx!
TabascoSauce

Rene Saliere

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

New Zealand

02 Mar 2007 at 00:40 - 423

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kate Soulguard

All the same, the design improvements we've seen over the course of three chapters is apparent to me. They are listening and they are improving as they move the story forward. They just can't afford to improve things that no longer generate the lion's share of the company's revenue.

And THAT is precisely why I am proposing a paid offering to uncap territory transfers. It guarantees that ANet is paid for the resources they'd need to allocate in order to implement a fix.

(emboldening mine)

Bravo! Your entire post is worthy of a thread and poll of its own, and the results delivered to ANet as a sponsored suggestion from the community.

For those about to vote on this issue, I direct you the full version of this post on page 20 of this thread.

Cheers Kate.

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

02 Mar 2007 at 02:59 - 424

Quote:

I would love to see a system where PvP had to have "favor" that is decided by PvE to go to GvG...if your region has favor (lets say highest score on challenge missions) you can get in a GvG but if not you cannot GvG..same with HA. Then I would like to come to this forum and say /notsigned to all of THEIR posts to remove favor like they do to ours

HA is an elite PvP area, they should need to grind PvE rewards to get there

Edge Martinez

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

NC

DKL

02 Mar 2007 at 07:01 - 425

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

In a competitive environment, should an experienced PvP'er educate a new PvP'er, he has simply armed an adversary. There is no incentive to help others there, because helping others ultimately makes your life as a competitor harder.

I doubt that is true. As a competitive player of shooters and simulators, I'm used to sharing knowledge freely with whoever wants to know for two reasons. It makes the games better with tougher competition and it keeps people creative as they combine and adapt ideas and tactics. No competitive person wants a cakewalk. I'm not disputing that what you say doesn't happen. I just doubt people are doing it just to keep others in the dark. There's no fun in that.

pork soldier

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

02 Mar 2007 at 07:16 - 426

Here's a question for you, would you still pay for free roam access if there were no ecto or shard drops unless your region had favor?

Edge Martinez

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

NC

DKL

02 Mar 2007 at 07:21 - 427

Yes. It opens more gameplay doors for you.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

02 Mar 2007 at 07:31 - 428

Quote:

Originally Posted by pork soldier

Here's a question for you, would you still pay for free roam access if there were no ecto or shard drops unless your region had favor?

Yes, please.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

02 Mar 2007 at 08:16 - 429

Favor is as bad an idea today as it was two years ago. No, I do not expect it to change.

Peace,
-CxE

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

02 Mar 2007 at 08:33 - 430

Quote:

Originally Posted by pork soldier

Here's a question for you, would you still pay for free roam access if there were no ecto or shard drops unless your region had favor?

I offered that same idea several pages back. It wasn't recieved very well. Responses were something like: "What's the point?". Personally, I'd love it.

A similar system could be used to open up Urgoz Warren and The Deep. Maybe something like no greens unless someone from the owning alliance personally invites you. This way, ferries would still be needed for farming the greens, but not needed to just explore and have fun.

AceeBlueEagle

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

ASH -Ashes of Humanity

R/

02 Mar 2007 at 13:49 - 431

Favor has been and always will be a broken concept. When people logging into GW who live in North America play on the Euro Servers, the system is flawed.

WasAGuest

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

02 Mar 2007 at 14:06 - 432

Quote:

Originally Posted by pork soldier

Here's a question for you, would you still pay for free roam access if there were no ecto or shard drops unless your region had favor?

Yup, the major assumption is that every single person wants to farm. I would love for those areas to be open 24/7 yet keep favor as it is to keep most people happy... however, no favor, no ecto/shard drops.

To me and those I play/group with, it's more about the areas and just simple fun. We enjoy kicking back and having a good time. Limits placed on that have been and continue to force us to look towards other games. With that said though, it's almost at a too late stage as Tuesday mornings are the only day the majority of us log into GW. And that surely isn't enough play time to warrant future purchases of any new chapters. -- however, if said areas were open at least we could hop back in on certain evenings and group up again*.

*Some of us are playing WoW while others are playing EQ2. So GW is still the more centralized meeting place.

Keithark

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Be Aggressive B E Aggressive [AGRO]

E/Me

02 Mar 2007 at 14:17 - 433

Quote:

Originally Posted by pork soldier

Here's a question for you, would you still pay for free roam access if there were no ecto or shard drops unless your region had favor?

Would you still PvP if there were no fame, chest rewards, etc?

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

02 Mar 2007 at 16:23 - 434

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

Would you still PvP if there were no fame, chest rewards, etc?

That would actually make me want to PvP more often!

Rene Saliere

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

New Zealand

02 Mar 2007 at 17:06 - 435

Quote:

Originally Posted by pork soldier

Here's a question for you, would you still pay for free roam access if there were no ecto or shard drops unless your region had favor?

Every time a poster mentions the economic effect of opening UW and FoW I am deleting and reposting this.

Many posters are claiming the reason for their vote as Ecto and Shard prices. They are irrelevant.

If they read this thread more carefully they would see this issue has been addressed already. So, here it is again:

Obsidian Shards, in FoW are not the only rare drops in the game.

Globs of Ectoplasm (Tombs of Primeval Kings)

Rare Crafting Materials - Diamonds, Rubies, Sapphires (drop in all access areas)

Black and White Dyes (drop in all access areas)

Rare Runes (drop in all access areas)

Rare Mods (drop in all access areas)

Rare Inscriptions (drop in all access areas)

Rare Weapon Skins (drop in all access areas)

See? There must be ways of controlling the economy without controlling access to the area where the stuff drops! Amazing revelations!

Zorglubb

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

02 Mar 2007 at 18:17 - 436

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

Would you still PvP if there were no fame, chest rewards, etc?

Most definetely. It would probably turn GW PvP into a better place with more fun and less griefers/AFK farmers.

Shmanka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

In Your Head

The Brave Will Fall [Nion]

Me/

02 Mar 2007 at 19:37 - 437

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene Saliere

Every time a poster mentions the economic effect of opening UW and FoW I am deleting and reposting this.

Many posters are claiming the reason for their vote as Ecto and Shard prices. They are irrelevant.

Rene you are also completely forgetting the point that these prices are truly stable. With 55 farming existing during the factions period of time ecto did not go for less then 6k at the trade to the highest degree of 11k. When nightfall was released we have seen 6k-12k. 55 farming amassed thousands of accounts to full plat yet ecto was not increased. With drops in UW and FoW being "random" just because we have favor at 1pm MST does not mean people are going to miss their tests/exams to farm the area. There will be peak hours of activity, like always.

Desbreko

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

California

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

02 Mar 2007 at 20:26 - 438

Favor controlling access to the UW and FoW is, in my opinion, the second worst "feature" I've seen in GW. The first were refund points, which have since been removed, and I keep hoping favor gets similar treatment.

I wouldn't be at all adverse to favor providing a PvP-oriented bonus (a small boost to the amount of fame you get from winning in HA maybe?), but having it influence PvE seems completely arbitrary outside of the lore. If people are holding halls they're playing to PvP in HA, not to do UW/FoW. And if people are wanting to play in UW/FoW, they're not going to want to play HA.

This is a definite "no" vote from me.

elektra_lucia

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

England

Leteci is [sexy]

Mo/

02 Mar 2007 at 21:21 - 439

I vote, make more places favour sided. Including the elite missions. Then perhaps people would stop whining and actually try win it.

Keithark

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Be Aggressive B E Aggressive [AGRO]

E/Me

02 Mar 2007 at 22:13 - 440

22 pages (in this thread alone, there are many more) and no DEV reply? Funny how they spend so much time on 2 day events and stuff like that but something that sooooo many people hate is left in the game..especially when the only thing it does is further divide PvE players and PvP players. And the price of shards/ecto would be changed due to all the devil farmers is so stupid it is not even funny. 1) you can change servers so real farmers just have an account in each server 2) the only people who use ecto and shards except people who want armor for their own characters are farmers who use them because 100k is all you can trade in trade window 3) if it was a problem then a-net could just adjust how many drops in a given period of time so that no more hit the "market" than they do now...either way the only people it would hurt (if it even hurt them) would be farmers who everyone seems to agree a-net doesn't like anyway