Vote on PvP access control over PvE areas.

I vote NO!!!!!!!!!!
Excellent point... look at Sup Absorption .. dropped from 60k+ to less than 10k within 2-3 weeks and now its less than 1k.

As for the statements previously about FOW/UW being the only place where PvP governs PvE is wrong. Any PvEr going for a cartographer title has to PvP to get it in Cantha... Fort Aspenwood and Jade Quarry. It used to be possible to get a group together in the International Districts and do it without dodging fire or being in the way of the PvPers but we cant even do that now. Even when in the Int dis we get pulled into groups from their home dis that are there to fight. So Why is a PvE specific title dependent on PvP???

I like how people seem to think that Uw/FoW, IS NOT mass farmed already, because it is...that is a whole other thread/topic.

with "open" access we (the gamer) will just be able to "freely" enter an area without being told so by PvPer's...plain and simple...

if anet wants, they could make certain hours available to each country/server
giving us "free access" but say, under a time limit.

[awhile back i made a comment about a rusty spoon and my eyes, but i see the light]

PvP deciding what PvE does, is, in a way, anet trying to bridge the gap and win PvEr's over to PvP.

While i can understand wanting to put a limited access onto such an area - doing it by what some scrubs are running in Halls is not the way to do it, in my opinion. It's a bit moronic that PVP influences the enjoyment and accessibility of end-game pve content.

Other things that largely blow about it - I'm in an alliance with Eu and Am people - I cannot party with some of these people here. And End-game pve is really the only PVE I care to do.

It's impossible to schedule. You can't predict when you have favour - you can have as little as... 40 minutes? + whatever waiting time between Halls matches is to organise a party. This isn't really enough since finding a group that don't fail at guild wars can take about.. 7 hours.

Some regions never get favour. Korea gets it sometimes because the koreans that do play halls tend to be quite good at it. Europe has it the vast majority of the time, America the rest.

But seriously, most importantly I'd think it would be quite nice to be able to go their with ALL of my guildies except those that choose to play on a certain sever.

The current limited access is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stupid.

Two nice points.
It seems absurd that such important endgame content is restricted in access, given that eventually - and after two years maybe that's now - the majority of PvE'ers -and that's the majority of players - are going to be at the endgame.

It's also absurd that guilds and friends from different countries cannot play together without upsetting the nationalistic Favor system.

Really, in the 21st century, in an escapist fantasy game, do we have to have to have references to real countries at all?

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

PvP should have absolutely nothing to do with PvE. They are two completely different things.

My vote: NO!

No entrance into a pve area should not be controlled by pvp favor.

If i say No i vote for a marketcrash.
If i vote Yes then everything stays as it is.

Hmmm what to choose.

As long as there no suggestion as to what would replace the PvP favor then I'm voting Yes it stays as it is.

I actually want someone to really explain WHY market crash and not just throw it out there like WMD's. When 55 farming existed in masses even with bots+whatnot working around the game ecto had risen to 11k at the merchant and no lower then 6k during the factions period. 55 farming made guildwars a slot machine ffs, no work required and your argument is that if we have 24/7 access to go into a realm with RANDOM drops that the market will crash? Get real.

Im personally just under r8, use a character to hold my HoH earnings, and go with friend groups or guild groups.
Guess what though? That doesn't matter, what matters is that players may not have the time or effort to make it into halls the way it is now. To be blunt and honest; I don't blame them. If you are a casual player or a graveyard shift worker by example yet you want to do FoW why not have a system where your party can prove itself, compared to having your horrible international district roll a pair of dice to see if you can get in?

To be honest, I've never seen you in halls. So stop discriminating the vote.

I vote NO!

Economy is artificial and can be manipulated easily by the designers, so it's not a valid reason to keep the status quo.

Link between pvp and pve by region is retarded. I have yet to witness a team win favor and then bolt for UW/FoW.

It's ironic to see some HAers complain about pve noobs in HA and why they need to stay out, then turn around and say, "Go win favor pve'ers"

Greetings,

Well, here we go with the favor system again. With this topic coming up again and again, one would think that ANet would have bought a clue and realized that there is something wrong here. *sigh* However, to use a phrase, "If wishes were horses, then we'd all be riding".

Anyway, on to the topic. My vote on this topic as addressed by the question is a resounding NO.

The way the favor system is currently setup inherently favors PvP over PvE. As has been pointed out, what in the PvE world controls access to PvP portions of the game like HoH controls UW/FoW?

There have been many ideas put forth to rebalance this favor system, some IMO better than others. First, I'll put forward my own idea from back in April of last year, then address some of the new ones presented in this thread.

Now, reading through the 300+ posts in this thread, I've seen a reoccurring theme. It appears that PvPers do HoH to gain fame, faction, and chest drops. In my original idea, I only addressed one of these - faction. I'd like to amend that idea to include double fame for a win as well as a second chest appearance for victory in this second PvP area.

Now, the idea presented above was presented as a way to give a PvE area control over a PvP area, thereby tying the two worlds of gameplay together. There is also a way to separate the two, PvE and PvP, and still restrict access to FoW and UW. Turn HoH into a PvE contest. The way to do it is has already been presented by ANet in the form of the Zaishen Elite combatants. ANet has already put together teams of these AI that are worth of being included in the PvP world, via the Zaishen Challenge and Zaishen Elite "missions" in Battle Isles.

What I propose is that the alternate form of access to FoW/UW be handled just like a run through Heroes' Ascent to HoH, with one change. In all places where a team would run into other player teams, replace those other teams with randomly chosen teams of Zaishen elites. So, in other words, when a party pays the 1K to enter, they must first go through this PvE version of a HoH run before being allowed entry into the ascended elite areas.

This idea, like all others, has its pros and cons. Some of which are:
Pros:
* giving the PvE playerbase a completely PvE challenge to enter FoW/UW
* retaining the HoH flavor as a requirement to enter the god's realms
* avoiding the fear that ectos and shards will be overfarmed and result in a crash in their market value
Cons:
* a complete separation of PvE and PvP in relation to FoW/UW (this is only a con if it is still ANet's intention to have these linked)
* a group setup that is designed to get through the PvE HoH may not be suited to take on FoW or UW (this might become a pro if it results in greater diversity in party builds).

I would also not be opposed to simpler suggestions, one of which has been presented in this thread. Remove the favor requirement to enter FoW/UW, but instead of charging gold, charge Balthazar faction to enter. I'm unsure of the amount but the original requirement of 1000 faction seems like a good amount.

One final note - As has been commented a couple of times in this thread, I also believe that the favor system will never be changed. Gaile, and possibly Alex, have both stated on several occasions that they don't believe there is anything wrong with the favor system and that it won't be changed. This is in spite of the fact that the playerbase was saying since the first month of two of release of Prophesies that the favor system was broken (I also believe there were complaints about it during the beta, but my memory is sketchy on this).

So, while the favor system is widely disliked, even considered broken, don't (figuratively) hold your breath on it being changed....ever. I know I won't.

Merry meet, merry met, merry meet again,
Wyldchild777

NO NO NO

Does that sum it up. Granted when the game originaly came out FOW and UW were the Elite areas of the game. But now due to the nerfing of several classes into extinction you must use a cookie cutter build from the PVP arenas to even have a chance in there, or use a solo farming build.

Mega Mouse

This idea I could live with. Though saying that favor has no real bearing on me because I do have multiple accounts in multiple servers...like any other "rich elitist asshole" lol

Funny thing is, my guild did exactly just that the other day. I was completely sick of all the insanely retarded pug FoW groups then we lost favor. I was so angry I was just going nuts over vent on how.. well completely stupid it was that I can't get a FoW group that has more then half a brain over 4 hours of having favor then losing it to europe at 11pm MST. So, I got into a halls group got back favor then got as many people from my guild/friends list as possible and got some FoW for my elementalist. Whoever suggested the new system of the party of 8 proving itself worth of getting into UW or FoW would prevent solo farming beyond belief, take out the favor system, and nothing "ëconomically" would happen. Make a Challange for the entry of the party, would have prevented myself from wasting 4 hours of dumb pug groups and the stress of having to win halls to get back in.

I vote YES
or else i'll never stop solo farming those damn pink globs of phantom poo.

Besides I'd RATHER PVP '



Seriously if your all so bent out of shape..... Switch to euro servers and pve fow/uw all friggen day till your hearts content

you can switch back 4 times.

I vote yes, for two reasons:

1) I hate PvE carebears, and would like nothing more than for them to be miserable.

2) It's a system that works. Leave it alone.

See, more proof that the system is broke. NA and Euro players can switch locations and bypass the restrictions. What's the point!? Too bad players in Japan and Korea don't have that option.

Edit:

What if I said, "I hate PvP jerks like Cassius and would like nothing more than them to be miserable. Therefore, they should progress through a boring, poorly-acted PvE campaign just to have access to PvP that they want." Hardly seems fair, does it?

Troll much...?

I'd wager half the people who post the economic arguments don't even know how an economy works, they just spew it out to make themselves sound smart.

If shard/ecto prices were that destroyed by constant access, the prices of ectos and shards would ALREADY BE SHATTERED, since Europe has access 18 hours a day, and they definately use it. The traders are linked throughout the regions, so if the prices plummeted in Europe they would also plummet server wide. Clearly this hasn't happened. If anything, ectos have gone UP in price, though they are plateauing now at around 8-9K per. Removing PvE dependance on PvP won't affect this in the least, because there will always be players who are too lazy to farm for FoW and simply ebay it, buying their materials and jacking up the prices.

Again, this is a nonsensical dependance on arbitrary PvP battles. I quite like the idea of forcing everyone who wishes to HA to have a protector title on the character they wish to use. Is it unfair? Yep. Is it arbitrary and useless? Yep. Does it force PvP players to depend on a game mode they don't enjoy? Yep. Welcome to our world.

I vote No. But honestly this thread is useless. When has Anet ever listened to any of these threads? Shit they asked us Months ago is we wanted the skill hunter title broken up. The vote was a landslide Yes. Has anything been done about it? Nope. We probably wont find out that nothing was done till chapter 4 comes out.

I could see Anet changing Chapter 4 to get rid of PvP control, but I don't see them ever changing Prophecies' issues. Call it cynicism hehe

Translation:

1) A PUG was mean to me once, and didn't res me after my PvP build failed dismally in Urgoz even though I blamed the monks. 'yr nubz!!!111' I screamed as I lay there for at least ten more minutes as the teams' life bars faded into the distance; 'i spent my whole allowance on this bambi!1!' I added bitterly. But it was no use. Even the b/p rangers' pets had survived longer than me. I swore to try and hurt the world anyway I could for the rest of my life, or at least, until I lost my virginity.

2) I have an instinctive urge to obey authority, no matter how absurd its directives or systems.

I already voted no, so I don't need to vote again. But the people voting yes seem to have two primary interests:
1. Fear that the ecto/shard market will drop
2. A desire to draw PvE people into PvP.

I offer this new solution that may resolve both concerns: Let an indivdual earn personal favor. As many have said, the typical R0 or maybe R1 PvE enthusiast will NEVER get into a group that is capable of winning Halls. So you really can't say, "Don't have favor, go earn it." At least not in the current system. So if an individual could "earn favor" for every 5 or 10 fame attained. At least it would allow for an individual to realistically earn (through PvP as that seems to be a requirement to play in this game) favor. That would allow the current favor to be maintained, but would also allow PvE enthusiasts a legitimate shot at earning entry.

The system could be simple, earn 5 fame (or whatever amount seems reasonable), a "favor of the gods token" appears in your inventory. The token could either be a tradable commodity or customized to an account. In reality, if regional favor was scrapped for personal favor, the bots would have a hard time getting access...

All that said, I still think favor should be scapped in its entirety, regardless of any adverse affect on the ecto economy

SCREW THAT.

I am a PvE Player. I do not like PvP at all. Anet should NOT force PvE players to play PvP to get access to something we should have access to anyway (though controlled access in a PvE way). Anet changed the system so PvP players were not forced to play PvE...the same should be done for PvE players. We should not be forced to play PvP or rely on someone else playing PvP to get access to PvE content. No matter how much they try to urge me into PvP I will not play. PvP is not fun for me..too many elitist idiots playing PvP...and I can avoid the elitist idiots in PvE (yes I know there are plenty...though quite a few are idiots who play both). I'd quit the game if they started forcing PvE players to play PvP to accomplish things in the PvE side of the game. The one part of the game that does force PvP is something I always skip, the Pre-Searing PvP match. It's not a painful match but I avoid PvP as much as I can. I have absolutely no interest AT ALL in playing PvP.

Get it through your thick skulls Anet/PvP Players, PvE is the only part of the game some people play. That is the only part of the game we are interested in. No matter how much you want us to play PvP...it's not going to happen.

That said, I like your idea of personal favor gain, but it should not be tied to PvP. It should be controlled by PvE content.

here's one of my suggestions for stuff I want that I posted over on GWOnline
Yeah I vote NO.

Vote: No.

It's just inciting to intercontinental and interracial flames.

I like PVE and PVP, but recognize that both should be seperate, because my preferences are not better than anyone else's.
If the game's target audience includes players interested in only PVE or PVP, and one is negatively impacting the other than it is very much in the game's best interest that something be worked out so that they are completely independent of one another.
I vote No

Vote = No

Typing this part just to meet minimum post limit. A poll would have been nice.

Vote = no

The current system is about as broken as it gets and it's frustrating to see ANet seems unable to listen to reason on this matter despite it's hated by the vast majority of players.

I play both PvE and PvP and enjoy both - but this system is broken even for my kind of player which it supposedly was designed for.

On a side note...

Having ecto's and shards only drop for the region that has favor is still unfair. Regions like japan would never get any ecto's or shards then...

And marketcrash is bull**** for 2 reasons:

-How can it get any worse, with inscriptions and inscribable weapons all over the place?

-If ecto/shard prices drop rapidly (which I doupt), A-Net can still artificially make them go up again

(One little change in the drop rate for ecto's and prices stay high. It's not the first time they change the drop rate for ecto's, anyway. With farmers all over the place, price is still high.)

Very well said. I vote NO.

Yes. Just because. Guild Wars isn't some half-assed democracy, where every vote counts. The system is what it is, and what it has been for almost two years.

Leave the system alone and provide more elite PvE only area(s) such as DoA, Deep, Urgoz, etc. that aren't tied to favor.

My $.02.

Oz

If you think the poll itself is wrong, then why vote?

Because I am certain you do not wish to be accused of hypocrisy, I won't count your vote as a 'Yes', instead I'm inventing a new category just for you.

Forgetting for a moment that Europe has the lion's share of favour. (and my spelling of the word is a dead giveaway)...

The US servers get some too (where I live with my US guildies) and I get into UW now and again, it's not the end of the world for me.

Forgetting all of that... let's spare a thought for those servers which get none, nadda, zip, zero.

Simple unselfishness should appeal to our consciences - for goodness sake let's let everyone have a crack at it.

Then again, I'd love to be on the Europe servers, but my guild is US. I've had to switch just to group up for these zones. It's silly.

As co-owner of an ISP I understand better than most the lack of global bandwidth. Like normal traffic, fatter and fatter roads will simply not be enough. How often does anyone see max download speeds from foreign sites, now we are all getting our fast broadband connections. Having to use distant servers all the time is BAD FOR THE INTERNET.

Yes - and it contributes to global warming, manufacture and provision of these high speed links is more pollution of the globe.

Let's all just get rid of the favour system, use local districts when we can and only use global interconnects when we *need* to.

Put me down for yes. Personally, I find it nice to have a reason to "root" for America to win HoH. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of guild names flashing at the bottom of the screen that I would have absolutely no interest in.

"Too many spike and gimmick teams in HA! ;-;" *ANet alters skills with no regard for PvE*

"We still hate it ;-;!" *ANet changes HA to 6v6*

"We want 8v8 and our old maps back! ;-;!" *ANet experiments with reimplementing 8v8 and adds old maps*

The game has changed a lot over the past two years due to user complaints.

Guild Wars is no "half-assed democracy". It's an autocracy built on happy customers. If ANet can put so much effort into making their PvP minority happy, surely they can appease the PvE majority in this case.

NO, i want to be able to go into UW/FOW with whoever i want. I have friends on American and Euro servers and i feel like i miss out on some stuff cuz i or they cant access certain areas.

No.

"The message you have entered its too short. Blah blah blah whatever"

I think the biggest problem with the game is the fact Anet is trying to force one camp of players into the other. While in most MMos pvp and pve are integrated, you usually have to flag yourself to pvp. Therefore, if a person never wants to pvp they dont have to. Generally, pve and pvp players are 2 different types of players.

Forcing one camp into the other just does not work. Granted, there are players who play both versions often, and that is great. Just separate the 2 camps completely by removing favor and dividing the skill set into pve and pvp skills sets. This division would remove the problem of one camp's balance adversely affecting the other camp. However, bridges (such as pvp/pve mixed arenas) between the camps should be built for those who want to do both. Crossing these bridges should not be forced on either party.

So in short my vote is "no." Pvp and pve should not influence each other in anyway.

A few posters on this thread have voiced cynicism about the possibility of real change to the Favor system.

I have to respectfully disagree with them. Two things are showing through very clearly to me in this thread - the landslide victory of 'No' voters over 'Yes' voters, but more importantly than that, the 'No' voters have provided real arguments for their position.

I thought I had a pretty good case against the Favor system when I started this thread, but new arguments have been presented that I had not even considered before. The case against the Favor system becomes stronger every day, and the steady increase in votes shouts out that case louder and louder.

I don't believe ANet's developers are irrational. I don't believe they want the majority of their endgame players unhappy. I believe that if this thread continues to collect votes and discussion, it must eventually reach a critical mass, which can no longer be ignored. And if not this thread, then another thread, or another poll, here or on another forum. Judging by the proportion of votes, we are just a drop in the ocean of discontent.

We 'No' voters are in a privileged position on this issue - not only do we represent the majority; we are, so far, represented by the best arguments. I cannot foresee either of these things changing.

Thanks everyone, 'Yes' and 'No' for posting, I look forward to the new votes/discussions every day.

Should PvP results affect access to PvE areas of the game? Current Tally: 136 No! 35 Yes!

I'm Also undecided, because it gives a bridge between PVP and PVE how broken it might be, it gives players the ability to go out and try HA. That brings up the debate on how hard it is to win halls in the first place.

/undecided - would like a new system though.

Just want to chime in here one more time with another possible solution. I'm trying to understand Anet's reasoning behind having PvP affect PvE, but at the same time make everyone (mostly) happy. So I've come up with another idea:

Unlink FoW and UW to HA, and introduce another arena - the FoW arena and the UW arena.

Essentially, it would work like this: At any point in time, you could just pay 1k to enter either area, no holds barred. There would be another option to the 1k, though - the arenas. You can choose to enter either arena, to fight one team, similar to the short 4v4 arena between pre and post. This would be free, and if you win, you get into either zone of your choice - along with a free +10 morale boost.

This way, those who want to just farm, can still pay their 1k and get in anytime they want. Those who want to bridge PvP and PvE to get their favor of the gods could do so in a small arena battle, getting a nice reward to start off their adventures with.

Eh, just an idea.