Hard Mode Needs Fixing

For me its not enough to play in hard mode hours upon hours on end through the difficulty and frustration just to say I did it. I want the titles just like the next person and wish to play hard mode as well (my guild is inactive, so at the moment I need to figure out what to do since I cannot hero/hench HM completely, but this is an aside), but titles arent enough just on their own. They dont really do anything.

I need income. Without that and the ability to improve things I am just playing and nothing else, which is only good for a little while before I dont wish to do it anymore - again. Rate of return vs time played has fallen to all-time lows to the point where its near tedious to play. Fun, yes, dont get me wrong. At least for a little while. I play to explore the new chapter and get some new skills, but its just not like it used to be.

Just as a case in point, yesterday I saw a gold seller spamming on All channel that they were selling gold in 10k increments. 10k. If that's not an indication of how gold earning has fallen to all-time lows, I dont know what is. I dont know how community population is doing, but my guild is completely inactive whereas we used to have over 50 players. Anet, at least in PvE, needs to keep enough incentive to play in the game and not close the funnel so tightly in my opinion.

Its not just about loot, I agree with you. Earnings are, however, for many people part of the larger scope of play and Anet has pulled the rug out from under most of them. You can still be creative and find some more ways to earn, but the current game state has it more as work than anything else to the point now I just play a bit when I want to get a new chapter.

[edit]
Another thing is I used to have so much fun - SO much fun - joining random PUGs and healing and working my way through the game. Got 4 Protector titles, Treya included, in Factions that way. Difficulties increasing has encouraged players to play in-guild only and Heroes have added to this. The only PUGs out there right now for the most part are those players it seems that arent in active guilds or cant even make it through with Heroes on their own.

I am two missions short of getting Masters in NF now using just Heroes/Hench, so I am not having difficulty on my own in NM, but I miss the days of better PUGs (LOL - my god - I cannot believe I just typed that, but its true). PUGs are even worse now and the difficulty level has driven many off, or into retreats within their guilds. Its quite sad really. You do have to be in a good, active guild to really do much in HM and even then, I think there needs to be more motivation to actually go through all the time to actually do it, and that is drops, as well as the ability to play in a PUG from time to time and meet new people. Both pretty much gone. *poof*

The more I play hard mode, the more I realize how stupid the buffs are. All it does is make certain skills godly, and the rest useless. Especially since the buffs are for every foe in every campaign.

Hard mode doesn't require extra skill or a better strategy. All you have to do is have a team with those godly skills, and pull. It's kind of sad that I've been able to vanquish much of elona with the exact same build (and the same build on my heroes, and the same henchies with me).

It limits your options. Almost all my attempts at changing my build result in failure, or at least a large reduction in efficiency. And in the end it's just not fun playing the same build all the time.

As for prot spirit, I find you have to manage it yourself. I always have it on my own bar, and I have the heroes cast it on vulnerable party members (monks, those with high dp, etc.) before a fight.

Anet has secretly nerfed/fixed hard mode depending on your outlook of the situation.

In Arkjok Ward near the buried treasure the mob was adjusted in HM before it had 2 patrols on top of one another with 2 monks.
Now it only has one patrol and no monks at all so now it’s so much easier to deal with.

The Ele's do not output so much damage as before but still a force to reckon with and manageable to deal with.

I'm sure there are more things that they have done, these two stick out becuase I had a difficult time with few spots before the nerf/fix and I have no problems now.

Or he just needs to look at his heroes bars a bit. Once you find the right build, HM is cake (sadly).

Ahahahahaha.

Just had to vent on this one. I got through Zen Daijun more or less okay. I tripple aggroed some groups by accident but still managed to keep the party together and get to the end in good time.

I approach the bridge, call target on Yijo--

and he kills my entire party in one shot.

Seriously.

Fifteen minutes of work, and he oneshots my party.

The entire party.

One shot.

^ He annhilates the party pretty decently on Normal Mode, as well.

The Hard Mode Yijo sounds...Just wow.

Bastet does actually sound fun, at least in so far as its concept and sense of humor about itself. Its the "frustrating" part I disagree with and commented on. Some areas in GW are already annoying as hell in normal mode, but certainly passable. I've been everywhere with henchemen in the pre-Heroes days and now with Heroes and have gotten all masters just using them in Nightfall. No biggie. That's not to say some areas still were not annoying. Some others were tactically and strategically interesting to figure out and beat, but its a fine line between the two things.

An ideal solution for HM I agree is not over-buffing everything, making some of the more annoying areas go beyond frustrating in my opinion, purposefully or unintentially giving you the worst possible combination of everything - over and over and over. I dont play games to get frustrated. I do, however, play them for a challenge sometimes and have no problem with that. I agree with your point that in the end I wish HM was smarter and less over-buffed. "No way to win" though? I dont know about that. Some games get too hard they simply become too much work to play and its no fun. I move on to other things sooner when that happens. Can I beat it? Yeah, sure, most of the time. Do I want to? Ehh, not really.

It's fun to hit him with a bunch of hexes and conditions, I prefer overkill

Hard Mode Yijo is fun... Hero-hench team standing tightly packed on that bridge getting spirit rift for all is just awesome =) Needless to mention that BHA jin failed miserably trying to shut him down %)
I got past him with Dark Prison->Shroud of Silence but managed to fail on the last group with Mo boss XD

Well, random PUGs is still the way to go for me, because that's where the fun is, and GW in single player mode is the same as playing any other shooter over and over and over again, and I'm just not into that. Not even with ten toons. Finding groups is hard, but if nothing develops, I just load up something else and try again another time.

Got Dunes and RoF done with my ranger last night. Good groups, good fun.

Well, HM Tyria was terrific fun! But Elona and Cantha were designed from the start to keep a party on its toes in every encounter. When you then raise every monster to levels 26-30, and give them boss-style buffs, every encounter is an exercise in frustration. I could, with time and repeated attempts and a great deal of effort, rise to the challenge. But that doesn't sound like fun, and what's the point of a game if it isn't fun? Guardian of Tyria is good enough for me!

Ironically, this is EXACTLY what happened to me.

I sent Jin in first to BHA and it HIT, so I released all flags and had all my heroes run up. Somehow, even with him dazed, jin did not interrupt spirit rift and we all were killed.

When I decide I'm in the mood for repeatedly bashing my head against a wall again, I'm going to use this same tactic again knowing full well that it's going to be completely based on luck now.

The most frustrating thing for me for hard mode is spending a lot of time working on the zone to be almost done, then to have it all destroyed by one impossible group/boss. Had everything clear in poisoned outcrops until the very end when we run into... what? 3 cavaliers, an acolyte, 2 giants with their stupid quicksand and a dune carver (who are insanely good at wiping out squishies)

I know that anet probably feels like people are whining, but honestly they said when they introducted it that they would be keeping an eye out and making adjustments as necessary. We are giving you exactly the kind of feedback you are looking for.

A few more things to consider...
There is no scaling to hard mode. In normal mode, early areas, where party size is limited, had lower level monsters, monsters got harder as you were able to add more members and scale appropriately. 4 people in early ascalon where the monsters are just as hard as they are in perdition rock. Not really fair. Not a challange, just a cruel joke.

Scale the monsters or allow people who are going to hard mode be able to add a full party.

Get rid of the 60% DP to automatically send to the town. Sometimes you can get a miracle to go through and do it, don't force us to have wasted our time by kicking us out beyond our control.

imo hard mode wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't made hard mode titles. :P Now it's just insulting.

http://la.gg/upl/yijo.jpg

Xeng Jo likes to run up to Jin to throw dirt at her, so I did this to separate them. When I went back up again I rushed right up to Yijo and this caused the henchmen to spread out slightly enough that I didn't full wipe. Good! Now, let's go on to the next step:

http://la.gg/upl/wipe.jpg

Whoops. I meant this part:

http://la.gg/upl/hmmasterszen.jpg


The best thing about hard mode is that even if you pass by sheer luck, you get the title and you don't have to do it ever again.

Has anyone ever beat Eternal Grove with just heroes and henchmen? All of the threads in Canthan Explorers league talk about 2 man or more team builds but nothing where 1 person alone (like me (all my friends think gw is dead now )) can beat it.

I can't react fast enough to both sides and the henchman flag interface is simply not enough.

Impossible to do alone. With another Human it's okay.
Third time I say it in this thread.
Don't try to HENCH hard mode.
1) It's harder with bots
2) It's not fun, playing with people (on TS) is.
3) Guild wars is called Guild Wars for a reason.

For ZEn Daijun, Broad Head Arrow works wonder. Or a Temple strike sin with protective spirit. This is true for any HM elementalist/ritualist boss. It's a lot constructive to shut him down with dazed than to try to put protective spirit on everyone.
In fact, saying PS is god in HM is bullshit as you will be unable to protect the whole party. Dazing, Blinding, Mesmerizing the ennemy so he can't do anything is.

Nobody plays hard mode. If you sucker some of your alliance mates to go with you, that's different. However, some of us just don't have our old friends anymore--all good GW players have left.

Plus, hardmode stuff is meant to be done only once. That means your group of 8 friends that help you get by this mission will never be back to help anyone else.

Personally, I'm just a grouch because I don't want to move into some big PvE alliance just so I can get my last maxed title and move up to 15.

Well I don"t know:
1) Find another guild
2) Find another Alliance
3) You're wrong. I did several times some HM areas, potentially especially rare skin potential areas in Cantha (Nahpui quarters, for celestial skins, or Sunjiang districs, for plague/shiroken skins) . I really don't care, as HM loot is excellent, and with loot scaling, you will have your part of the cake anyway. Any people having some thought about getting rare golds WILL never avoid the opportunity to vainquish several times the area.

I think the obvious reason is right there in front of you.

It's not rewarding enough.

I addressed these in the previous post. I don't want to have to join a big pve alliance just to get titles.
No, you're wrong. There are no skins unique to Eternal Grove.

The only problem that needs fixing in Hardmode is the fact that barely any other players actually play it.Which can be a pain at times,having to complete Missions like Aurora's Glade,where the player has to not only Run the Crystals,but bark orders at the Hero AI.

In a weird way, I like that few people do HM. It means the guardian titles will be rare for a few months yet. Im going for vanguisher in cantha at the minute because I gave up on forming PUGs.

Its more a vanity thing to show off the title, and it helps you make gold VERY easily.

Masters is very doable in easy mode. Not sure about hard, I'll have to give it a try.

For the second part, send 5 or 6 henchmen to one of the gates and send a MM and the juggernauts to defend the other. It's much easier if you're a monk; otherwise you might have to manually heal the singers a bit.

So you are basically saying that Anet should decrease the HM difficulty because you don't have the will, the time, or the patience to find a guild which have the same goals than you?
Are you implying that Anet should rework their system just because you're lazy?
That Anet should adapt to you instead of you adapting to Anet's game?
Sorry I can't follow you here.
HM is largely doable. Additionally, it forces you to think your builds. In PVE!
HM is fine.

My problem with hard mode is there's so many skills out there to abuse it and not enough hero slots to use those.

I would like to have a churning earth ele (KD all of those fast moving mobs!), a SS/empathy/diversion necro, a MM, a monk hero with ZB, infuse, maybe a few other skills (they don't seem to use Prot spirit appropriately), a shelter Rt, an interurpt ranger/support paragon, and maybe a dervish and warrior or some other use for the last slot.

Instead I'm stuck with henchies with useless elites (Go Aidan with your uber stance that you.. End prematurely with an attack skill), incomplete bars, and often obvious flaws like Healing Touch. I'm looking at you, Mhenlo.

No, I'm saying Anet should make these missions completable with henchmen.

Stop being pigheaded and reading between the lines. I am being as obvious as I possibly can for you.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I tackled it in easy mode. Problem in hard mode comes when there's no time to adjust juggernauts, and then the heroes and henchmen sit in AOE from overpowered eles because they're flagged in place. And, unfortunately, the default henchmen don't carry BHA. :P

Also, you have to have someone kill turtles. It's much easier if it's the player that does it. I know a warrior can solo them, but I doubt a monk can be an effective healer and an effective turtle killer.

I dont see a reason why Anet wouldnt simply allow us to use all Heroes in hard mode. No change to the interface needed since it could be that we can individually flag only Heroes in slots 1-3, using All for the others as we already do for henchmen. Would simply allow for more management and team building if one is going all Hero/hench, though yes, it goes without saying, that would be an upgrade (a buff?! never happen) since that team would be stronger than Hero/henchies - just not as strong of course as an all-human team. I think that would be fun, honestly.

Failing that, though, the best alternative is to join an active PvE guild, just as glountz said, specifically one that is regularly playing hard mode for the titles if you aim for them. Thinking about it myself since mine is largely inactive now and I dont really wish to Hero/hench my way through all of Hard Mode, even though many areas are possibly done that way. I'm just wandering around PUG land for now and doing other things until I decide if I wish to move - and where.

Really?

Do Aurora Glade on Hardmode,by yourself with only Prophecies Henchmen.I mean,HM is fine,so it should be doable,right?

I'll wait here for the inevitable outcome.K?K.

Maybe that would make room for title advancement: For every X title, you get +1 hero slots. So maybe the protector titles each add +1, the skill hunter titles add +1, etc. It would make these titles remotely useful instead of KoaBD fodder.

I am enjoying hard mode, but there are some things that realy need to be changed, and personaly, I don't care if they come in 2-3 months, as long as they come, and that's how long it takes.

First, although not directly accociated with hard mode, we NEED a better party search function.

1) Improve monster skillbars - give them a full set of 8 skills, a second profession, and 2 or 3 available skill bars, one of which loads randomly for each monster when you enter the zone. Also, add elite skills to the boss's in "lower level" areas, such as Ascalon - it makes no sense for them to lack these skills, and adding aditional areas to capture skills will not have a meaningful impact on skill hunter titles, after the tome release.

2) Remove or reduce the 50% boost - it does not increase the difficulty, it makes certain areas more annoying, and the rest far easier if you have a spiteful necromancer or something similar in the party.

3) Scale the vanquishing title, similar to how cartographer is scaled, so you do not have to complete an entire continant before you can show your progress. Further, increase the monetary rewards for vanquishing areas, and remove the experiance rewards.

4) Increase the drop rates of tomes and passage scrolls, and bar non-elite tomes from dropping from chests. Further, add these items to the scroll traders, to help with the availability and price moderation.

If these changes are made, I think it would significantly improve the quality of hard mode, and increase the number of people playing in it. Combined with a superior party search system, people such as me won't have to wait for an hour per mission, just looking for a group.

Once in a blue moon it is possible with dunham, but you have to gamble on him using Crippling Anguish on the right guy.

Also, you have to figure out how to get a permanent run buff on yourself that will stack with Birthday Cupcake. Pious Haste is nightfall only. Storm Djinn's Haste is nightfall only.

But I'm sure there has to be SOMETHING you can use even if you are a necro or monk.

[edit]

Also, why does Brutus use Icy Veins when he only has SIX SOUL REAPING?

I'm glad glountz did bring up the point about rare skins, however. Maybe some "neat looking pve candy" should be added to missions like Eternal Grove and Aurora Glade and others that henchmen cannot handle to lure people who would like to repeat those dumb things over and over again (read: domain of anguish). Then you wouldn't have to do something simple like giving henchmen reasonable attributes or fixing their AI so they can function independently on a split. Why put all the "rare skins" in nahpui quarter, a map that does not require splitting and is thus easilly henched?

You know what I say:


Give us the power to use a full hero team in Hard Mode.

I guess I just do not have the same need for gold that most people here seem to. So whether I get good income from hard mode or not is irrelevant to me. But I can see how people who want multiple 15k armours and every green worth having would have issues with Hard Mode drop rate.

Edit: I would just like to add that from person experience two player with heros is sufficent for hard mode. Now I admit that I am lucky and I usually team with my brother for Hard Mode and between us we can usually figure something out. However, I cannot see why people can't use these very forums to search for duo partners. I mean wouldn't it be more productive to make a thread where people interested in doing hard mode can put down their names, times they play and what characters they want to do hard mode with then well... what you guys are doing here?

Muspellsheimr, I agree with all of your points except this one:

The XP bonus is very useful if you plan on vanquishing multiple areas in one go. It can help clear some DP before moving on to the next area.

I like this idea, however I'm sure there will be people that will complain that it discriminates people who don't like to get bonuses/masters etc. Then we go back to square one

Still this is just an opinion or a judgement, nothing absolute about that. In my opinion HM is doable, especially with 2 or more players that cooperate well. However the statement that HM is fine I disagree with strongly. The 2 to 3 hit spike and die mechanism is largely excisting due the boosted attributes, and has nothing to do with difficulty through better AI (tactically, in terms of mob composition, and skill wise) but more with more destructive powers. They force u to use certain game mechanics (frost/ToF, rits etc) that are largely inflexible and actually lack versatility, mobility etc.. If they were really superior builds they would have been used in PvP as well, and they aren't.

Actually if you had read the whole thread before clicking on "reply" you would less look like a troll and more like someone that made a point.
To do Aurora Glade in HM you need :
You.
Three heroes.
Another buddy.
Another three heroes.
If you are so antisocial you can't find ONE buddy to do the mission, sorry, you can't be helped.
Read my posts. I never said that HM could be easily done with henchmen. And, IMO, that's better.

Interesting post. However, no build composition is unbreakable, and no AI can match the human intellect.
If you know what you'll be facing, you will win.
The answer of many people here is "prot spirit prot spirit everywhere". Actually that's a little true, and monk/rit uber defense is less effective than heavy shutdown.
Considering than most mobs lack either condition removal or hex removal, You can shutdwon ennemies with a lot more success than to stockpile enchants or protective spirits on a tank. That works, until the aggro break and mobs wipe the party.
Spreading dazed or blind is the best way to the success, and the work of your monks will be easier.
Saying that HM limit builds is bullshit. In fact, it forced my guildies and I to think new builds. Elementalists are no longer fire SF/Meteor shower spammers. That simply doesn't work in HM. They went Earth, or Air for mass blinding and armor penetration. Rangers shifted from barrage to Broad head arrow. Minion masters brought Dark bond to survive and avoid Minions rebellion upopn death.
And necros were forced to change their builds, too. MM is not advised in many areas, it is even counterproductive in some (Jungle scarabs anyone?).
Tanks are no more tank in HM. The aggro breaks extremely fast and dangerously (because of the 50% speed boost). To keep it, many solutions are possible, Deep Freeze + mass crippling dervish is one (see, you are actually bringing MOVEMENT CONTROL in HM! You'll never see that in normal mode).
So, yeah, sorry, when I play in normal, that's the good ol'MM, SF ele, Barrage ranger and so on. No more variety is asked.
In HM, you finally understand that the Holy Triad Ele-monk-warr + MM doesn't work. And you start to look for... Mesmers....

You talk about mass shutdown and such, but unfortunately this isn't very feasable with AI. Most henches do not carry interrupts, much less any other kind of shutdown, and even the entire team tries to shut down only one target at a time rather than focusing on what they should be good at (blinding ele for melee, mesmer for casters, spreading conditions/general interrupts for ranger, etc...)

Right.And would you like to explain as to where players are to obtain heroes if they only own Prophecies?

And Lol on the Anti social bit.I'm anti-social because no one plays Hardmode,if rarely ever.

Right.