Retroactive Luxon/Kurzick allegiance title track? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

16 Jun 2007 at 18:46 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

#1 those skills arent that powerful.
#2 It doesnt matter anyway.

You chose materials/gold instead of a title and now you want both while the people that chose the title are screwed over? NO. Give me a stack of amber and jade and reset the price to 1k each at the trader which is the price they were when I donated the majority of my faction and I'll go along with it. Short of that, I'm screwed over while everyone else gets both sides.

Who cares about the title? The real issue are the skills and a decent way to obtain them. There has to be a better way than endless grind. If I started today and did nothing except PvE farming in Factions, I wouldn't even have a moderate level in one of those titles before GW2 hits the market. Even if they did retroactively add the 160k I spent on amber to the title track.

The current mechanism is absolutely atrocious.

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

16 Jun 2007 at 18:49 - 82

You dont NEED those skills! You can complete the game just fine without them! You are not entitled to have those skills. If you want them work for them. Obviously the OP cares about the title because he wants the title without having to do anything to get it.

Karlos

Master of Mallyx

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Kaizen Order [Kaiz]

E/Me

16 Jun 2007 at 18:54 - 83

Everyone who keeps saying "You decided to get Amber and Jade while they decided to donate to thir guild/alliance" is missing one VERY important point:

People who used their faction for Amber/Jade/Scrolls did NOT know it was going to come back and be useful in PvE. It is EXTREMELY unfair for ANet to:

a) Link these PvE skills to Allegiance Rank
b) Change it so that even cashing for Jade/Amber/Scrolls/Skills counts as allegiance donation.
c) and then NOT count Faction earned by those guy who never knew about this.

The combination of the three is OBVIOSULY an injustice, anyway you look at this. This would be equivalent to ANet adding a title based on total deaths and then giving it a significant effect in PvE (the higher the rank the more likely you are to get gold drops). If players KNEW then you could fault them, but they did not know and saying it's their fault that ANet changed the rules is ridiculous.

This is coming from a player with 2.5 million faction who has donated all but 50k of his faction. I am not one of the amber people, im one of the FFFing crew. I just think the majority of players got bamboozled.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

16 Jun 2007 at 18:57 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

You dont NEED those skills! You can complete the game just fine without them! You are not entitled to have those skills. If you want them work for them. Obviously the OP cares about the title because he wants the title without having to do anything to get it.

I don't need those skills. Of course I don't need those skills.

"Look here's free new content, but you don't need it so you'll never see it unless you play like your life depended on it."

I don't need to play the effing game if that's the answer.

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

16 Jun 2007 at 18:57 - 85

And I get bamboozled for the SAME reason! I didnt know these would come out either. And if I knew I would eventually be able to get the title while also spending every faction on amber/jade I would have done so. Your points are NULL.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

16 Jun 2007 at 18:58 - 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

Like I said in the thread in sardelac, a big NO for me.

While all those people would be getting their title for turning in amber/jade, all those people that decided to go for the title instead would be screwed out of getting amber/jade. I decided I would rather have the title than amber/jade and you decided you would rather have amber/jade than the title. Now you expect to get both while I only get the title? HELL NO.

You are right in that I did choose amber and jade over a title. but I did not knowingly choose them over pve skills, now did I? I never even used any of the jade i got, just bought em to clear the pathetically low 10k limit. i'll tell ya what, you keep your title, but give up the pve skills. give those to me, and you can have my jade and amber. fair, yes? you get title and jade and amber and I just get a couple measly little skills?

Niila

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

16 Jun 2007 at 19:00 - 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

You dont NEED those skills! You can complete the game just fine without them! You are not entitled to have those skills. If you want them work for them. Obviously the OP cares about the title because he wants the title without having to do anything to get it.

For your previous post: Some players gave faction to alliance, because they wanted to have towns, others bought rare materials. Both of them had their own benefit, but the difference here is that former is getting the skills while latter isn't.

And yeah, surely over 1 million farmed kurzick faction means I haven't done enough for the pve-skills yet?

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

16 Jun 2007 at 19:07 - 88

lets just take the whole title thing out of the picture. no one cares about the title itself. lets take the faction pve skills, and base them off of something else entirely, yes? I'm sur ethey can think of something a bit more fair. And hell if they can't, then as a last resort just link them to virtual character level (amount of xp) or number of skill points you have earned. thats fair, ya?

or: let everyone buy em and have the effect intensity based on the class's primary attributes. ya, thanks for playing right?

Karlos

Master of Mallyx

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Kaizen Order [Kaiz]

E/Me

16 Jun 2007 at 19:14 - 89

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

And I get bamboozled for the SAME reason! I didnt know these would come out either. And if I knew I would eventually be able to get the title while also spending every faction on amber/jade I would have done so. Your points are NULL.

There's some logic for you. Just cause I can somehow prove that I TOO got shammed... That means the others have no right to demand a change. Uhhh, ok.

Oh, you were tricked, but not bamboozled, they got bamboozled. At the end of the day, you worked hard and got a RANK. They worked hard and got NOTHING. Then ANet turned around and said, they could have gotten something for it, the same thing they did before, nothing different. You still have a high rank in allegiance titles compared to them.

Neo Nugget

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

16 Jun 2007 at 19:18 - 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

lets just take the whole title thing out of the picture. no one cares about the title itself. lets take the faction pve skills, and base them off of something else entirely, yes? I'm sur ethey can think of something a bit more fair. And hell if they can't, then as a last resort just link them to virtual character level (amount of xp) or number of skill points you have earned. thats fair, ya?

or: let everyone buy em and have the effect intensity based on the class's primary attributes. ya, thanks for playing right?

Well, i dont think i would even bother getting the skills i rank 1 was still 250k, but the title is 100k which i would not mind having. I would like to get both if i can. Mainly because i like getting different account wide titles.

J snukka

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

New York

16 Jun 2007 at 19:27 - 91

I'm not goin to read this thread, so if my point has already been said, then sorry. I find those who agree/feel the same way as the OP ridiculous. Open you eyes and realize that ANET is doing this to encourage more game play. sorry you can't have things handed over to you. so stop being lazy and farm more. enjoy killing the foes. if you are bored of doing alliance battles or killing foes than dont play the damn game. stop complaining and appreciate that anet did something great for us and to bring back people to play in Cantha again.

btw: i am one of those players that put faction all in jade/amber and have to farm 60k more to get rank 1. you dont see me complaining. I'm just going to deal with it and have fun killing for faction.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

16 Jun 2007 at 19:34 - 92

Quote:

Originally Posted by J snukka

I'm not goin to read this thread, so if my point has already been said, then sorry. I find those who agree/feel the same way as the OP ridiculous. Open you eyes and realize that ANET is doing this to encourage more game play. sorry you can't have things handed over to you. so stop being lazy and farm more. enjoy killing the foes. if you are bored of doing alliance battles or killing foes than dont play the damn game. stop complaining and appreciate that anet did something great for us and to bring back people to play in Cantha again.

btw: i am one of those players that put faction all in jade/amber and have to farm 60k more to get rank 1. you dont see me complaining. I'm just going to deal with it and have fun killing for faction.

what it promotes is a forced gameplay style, just like you said.... "hey we're gunna add these new skills that you can use in any PvE setting, but here's the deal, we're only gunna let you use em if you farm a lot and donate everything you earn to the psuedo-pvp that is alliance wars."

Shadis

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

16 Jun 2007 at 19:36 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by J snukka

I'm not goin to read this thread, so if my point has already been said, then sorry. I find those who agree/feel the same way as the OP ridiculous. Open you eyes and realize that ANET is doing this to encourage more game play. sorry you can't have things handed over to you. so stop being lazy and farm more. enjoy killing the foes. if you are bored of doing alliance battles or killing foes than dont play the damn game. stop complaining and appreciate that anet did something great for us and to bring back people to play in Cantha again.

btw: i am one of those players that put faction all in jade/amber and have to farm 60k more to get rank 1. you dont see me complaining. I'm just going to deal with it and have fun killing for faction.

You've missed the point entirely. It's not so much that we have to grind for this title now, it's that we were given ZERO indication that these titles would be useful. All we heard were "New Sunspear Skills". There was no mention of possible Kurzick/Luxon skills tied to that useless title. The requirements are insane as it is considering nothing you do will raise the maximum Faction limit for those two. 10k is all you get, no matter what. That's where this anger is coming from.

A little warning would've gone a long way.

Neo Nugget

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

16 Jun 2007 at 19:50 - 94

Didnt they already do this kinda this when the hero title track was introduced with factions? If you got fame in HA, then when factions came out it got put in the title track. Pretty much the same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadis

You've missed the point entirely. It's not so much that we have to grind for this title now, it's that we were given ZERO indication that these titles would be useful. All we heard were "New Sunspear Skills". There was no mention of possible Kurzick/Luxon skills tied to that useless title. The requirements are insane as it is considering nothing you do will raise the maximum Faction limit for those two. 10k is all you get, no matter what. That's where this anger is coming from.

A little warning would've gone a long way.

Yeah mainly because last week was AB bonus weekend lol.

Guild Terror

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

16 Jun 2007 at 19:53 - 95

when i cashed in faction, i got amber

why? because the title was so far away, yet, does noting except let you wear it, my guild never needed faction. i dont care for a plain title that does nothing, however, a bit of extra cash from selling amber seemed nice. if i knew that the title would get me great pve skills, i wouldnt care for the extra bit of cash

Lysander Freeman

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Central PA, USA

Gladiators of Light in Darkness

R/E

16 Jun 2007 at 20:01 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fossa

IIRC these "righteous" kept Cavalon and HZH elite missions locked down for a month or so, causing such hatred that one alliance had to have an official ambassador on the forums to handle public relations. Righteous my ass, they donated the faction to get something out of it, town control. Don't paint them up as some sort of angels.

I felt like quoting this again, since people keep on insisting that getting Amber was "greedy" while donating faction was somehow... "not greedy" and wasn't *meant* to be beneficial to the player...

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

16 Jun 2007 at 21:18 - 97

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

no actually my amber and jade are still sitting in my storage unused. both alliance faction and jade were useless to me so I just picked one to empty out the 10k faction limit and went with it. and now here later because i picked A and not B all those months ago, I get punished for it... i don't give a flying pregnant nun about the title, just want access to the pve skills. if they suddenly made the faction skills so it went off of how much jade you bought instead of how much you gave to alliance, would you be bitching? I'm fairly certain you would. hell you're bitching at just the thought of someone who isn't hardcore into alliance wars getting your epeen title...

Nah the title was not such a big case for me, I needed the money neither and we owned for some time a town.. But, the deal was clearly set in the beginning, we didnt get amber or jadeite, but we got rewarded by progress on the title track. U choose differently and wanted more "solid" reward, materials/money.

I am not bitching, but I don't see why u should be rewarded twice, and we wouldnt get any jadeite or amber we missed out on. You don't hear us complaining right now, do you? Just accept the consequences of your decision and start getting faction in your account.

Takeko Nakano

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Great Britain

W/P

16 Jun 2007 at 21:31 - 98

FYI, I sold hardly any jade/amber for money. Most of it went on armour for my characters.

So why am I greedy? Because I didn't join a farming guild/alliance that spent all their time getting faction? I'm as much entitled to points on the title track as anyone in one of those guilds. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the objection to this proposal comes from the latter group who want to keep the faction titles as "exclusive" as possible for as long as possible.

reddswitch

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

16 Jun 2007 at 21:37 - 99

Don't have time to read through all the pages. If they didn't give factions for amber now there'd be less arguments for it. For my own selfish reason I'd agree for the total to be reflected as my allegiance rank but the changes for this weekend made the total unreliable. These kurzick/luxon skills aren't too big a deal anyway. I probably don't have room to fit one in most of the time.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

16 Jun 2007 at 21:38 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the objection to this proposal comes from the latter group who want to keep the faction titles as "exclusive" as possible for as long as possible.

No. Its in the interests of fairness. Its not right to have retroactivity benefit those who chose to redeem for amber and jadite for monetary return before the changes also get the benefits from the title track now, while those who did not redeem only get the benefits from the title track.

Cant have it both ways. If you wish to even open a discussion of retroactivity, you need to compensate those who dontated for the title track a lump sum of the average cost of amber or jade, for everything they donated. Anet would reimburse them directly in gold for all of that faction the average cost of amber or jadite per every 1k faction they dontated. Only then is retroactivity fair.

Otherwise, its fair as currently implemented.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

16 Jun 2007 at 21:46 - 101

When did fairness ever come into creating an even playing field?

Remember HoD swords? Boy, did some people get screwed there!

Remember attribute refund points? Should we require every starting player to use that old system until they hit 5,000,000 xp? Would only be fair wouldn't it? That how it was for me, after all.

Remember the material trader reset? Free gold for everyone who happened to be playing.

Remember rune prices before the drop rates changed? Boy do I feel stupid now for paying almost 100k for a superior absorption. And then they nerfed it!

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Fairness? Never! You win some, you lose some, and I sure hope I'm going to win this one.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

16 Jun 2007 at 21:53 - 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

[etc.. etc.. etc]

All those things were fair because they affected all of us, whether we liked it or not. Some of us were unlucky in the timing of some of those things, but that's life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You win some, you lose some, and I sure hope I'm going to win this one.

Not likely. You are, by definition of what you said in your examples, asking Anet to make a choice specifically being unfair to some of the players while favoring others. They either leave it as it is or, if its made retroactive, reimburse those who spent faction on the titles pre-change. Can you honestly see them doing that?

Lysander Freeman

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Central PA, USA

Gladiators of Light in Darkness

R/E

16 Jun 2007 at 22:00 - 103

The people who donated faction to their Guilds and Alliances got their rewards - they edged closer to ownership of Outposts and several controlled those outposts for a while. That was the point of the whole thing!

I don't see why they would be given amber or jade as well - if THAT wouldn't be double rewarding, I don't know what is. So, what people are saying is that *money* is the only "reward"? Everyone got their rewards in one form or another. Oh... so is someone willing to relinquish control of House du Heltzer to me or any others who bought amber, a material reward, instead of controlling an outpost, a game play/mechanic reward? And didn't the controlling guild/alliances also profit monetarily from ownership of the outposts? They sure did!

Look at the Sunspear and Lightbringer points. They are based on faction/points earned. That's what the Kurzick and Luxon skills should be based on.

Nightfall did not have different options, heck, any options, on ways to *use* the SS and LB points for anything other than the Titles.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

16 Jun 2007 at 22:07 - 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander Freeman

The people who donated faction to their Guilds and Alliances got their rewards - they edged closer to ownership of Outposts and several controlled those outposts for a while. That was the point of the whole thing!

That isnt a reward for donating to the title. That is a reward for being a member of a guild that owned a town. Most people who donated never saw any of that. Had less to do with the title than it did with the Alliance. It was simply the way the title worked at that time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander Freeman

I don't see why they would be given amber or jade as well - if THAT wouldn't be double rewarding, I don't know what is. So, what people are saying is that *money* is the only "reward"? Everyone got their rewards in one form or another. Oh... so is someone willing to relinquish control of House du Heltzer to me or any others who bought amber, a material reward, instead of controlling an outpost, a game play/mechanic reward? And didn't the controlling guild/alliances also profit monetarily from ownership of the outposts? They sure did!

Most people who worked on that title track at that time got nothing at all from it. Nothing. Except for title advancement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander Freeman

Look at the Sunspear and Lightbringer points. They are based on faction/points earned. That's what the Kurzick and Luxon skills should be based on.

Fine, but then you have to reimburse those who did not sell amber and jade if you are going to allow all those who did to also gain further points on the title track.

bilateralrope

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

New Zealand

Xen Of Onslaught (Xen of the Pacific division)

16 Jun 2007 at 22:17 - 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andisa Kalorn

I really don't like where this is heading. Sure, have your fow armor and tormented weapons and grind titles. But now grinding gives you an advantage over others? The LB skills were bad enough, but they're only useful in a few places, and still not as much of a grind to make effective. This is worse than rank elitism in HA. Rank doesn't actually make your skills better...

Especially since the reason I play guild wars instead of another MMO is because there isn't much grind here. But every time ANET adds more forced grinding, they erode that reason away.

Really, why does ANET want to force us to grind ?
For MMO's with a monthly fee I can understand it because the longer someone stays, the more money they pay. But for guild wars the more someone plays, the more it costs ANET (their bandwidth won't be free). The people who do enjoy the grinding will do it anyway, but for the people who don't doing this just pisses them off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadows Soul Reaper

I think them before the update that got amber/jade should get it back for there title as long as they give the gold they made from the amber/jade so it would be far for the ones who put in faction in there guild for the title the one who was not in it to make money from it as i know someone in my last guild who has 6 mil faction they put in the guild they could off got amber/jade and made a killing but they did it for the title not the money

1 - There are people currently buying discount lockpicks, then reselling them at a profit. But they can only do this if they are donating the faction.
2 - What price would you pick for the amber/jade ?
3 - How would ANET know how much faction was spent on amber/jade, and how much was lost due to being at the 10k cap and/or spending for the other faction ?
4 - The people who were after the title were doing so purely to show off that title (or the KOBD track).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vamis Threen

Ok, let me get this straight: in the good ol' days, the righteous gave away their faction and in the process accrued a title, whereas the greedy spent their faction on loot, which didn't give them a title. Fair enough.

How are the people donating their faction for either a title to show off, or to hold a town in a morally better position than those who spent on amber/jade ?

And considering the current amber/jade prices, its quite possible that some of the town holders are making more gold from lockpick reselling than they would from amber/jade sales.

Lysander Freeman

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Central PA, USA

Gladiators of Light in Darkness

R/E

16 Jun 2007 at 22:21 - 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Most people who worked on that title track at that time got nothing at all from it. Nothing. Except for title advancement.

Fine, but then you have to reimburse those who did not sell amber and jade if you are going to allow all those who did to also gain further points on the title track.

Read that again, please.

"Look at the Sunspear and Lightbringer points. They are based on faction/points earned. That's what the Kurzick and Luxon skills should be based on."

I didn't mention it affecting the Title track. The donating faction to gain control of towns was *the* reason for the whole thing in the first place. Titles came later. If you didn't get anything from donating then perhaps you should have joined a guild where it could have?

This whole thing can EASILY be fixed by making the skills based on the faction earned. I repeat, the "skills" being based on faction earned.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

16 Jun 2007 at 22:24 - 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

All those things were fair because they affected all of us, whether we liked it or not. Some of us were unlucky in the timing of some of those things, but that's life.

You'll have to explain how some of those things are fair whereas this change wouldn't be, because I don't see it. All of those situations resulted in a not-so-very-great number of people feeling they got shafted and a lot of people being pretty happy about it. Exactly like what we're looking at here should this change occur.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Not likely. You are, by definition of what you said in your examples, asking Anet to make a choice specifically being unfair to some of the players while favoring others. They either leave it as it is or, if its made retroactive, reimburse those who spent faction on the titles pre-change. Can you honestly see them doing that?

Well, first off, I'm not really asking for some free title-bar action. (I'm still at zero on both allegiances btw. If I'd donate anything at all I'd risk being kicked from my guild for being a dumbass... well not really, but I'd never hear the last of it.)

I just want a reasonable shot at these new skills without having to grind away for a few months. I don't care how they do it. I'd rather see them disconnected from the title entirely.

But to answer your final question, if the skills must be kept tied to the titles, yes, I fully expect them to retroactively base the titels on faction earned, not faction spent. After all, they did all those other things without regard for the people who'd feel victimized.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

16 Jun 2007 at 22:24 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander Freeman

I didn't mention it affecting the Title track. The donating faction to gain control of towns was *the* reason for the whole thing in the first place. Titles came later.

Then the titles had nothing inherent to do with town ownership specifically, which is what I said.

Neo Nugget

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

16 Jun 2007 at 22:26 - 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

All those things were fair because they affected all of us, whether we liked it or not. Some of us were unlucky in the timing of some of those things, but that's life.

Not likely. You are, by definition of what you said in your examples, asking Anet to make a choice specifically being unfair to some of the players while favoring others. They either leave it as it is or, if its made retroactive, reimburse those who spent faction on the titles pre-change. Can you honestly see them doing that?

Well they did it for the hero title track. Why not this one.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

16 Jun 2007 at 22:35 - 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You'll have to explain how some of those things are fair whereas this change wouldn't be, because I don't see it. All of those situations resulted in a not-so-very-great number of people feeling they got shafted and a lot of people being pretty happy about it. Exactly like what we're looking at here should this change occur.

Those things were "fair" because they affected everyone equally. One day we woke up and HoD swords were no longer anywhere near as valuble as they were the day before. True for each and every one of us. The day for the end of the HoD sword had simply come. It wasnt the end of my HoD sword's value while yours still retained it. Granted, some of us lost a lot more than others in the action, but that had nothing to do with Anet or that "nerf." It was simply you buying six when they could be crafted at HoD and my buying three off the open market at their peak value, for example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Well, first off, I'm not really asking for some free title-bar action. (I'm still at zero on both allegiances btw.) I just want a reasonable shot at these new skills without having to grind away for a few months. I don't care how they do it. I'd rather see them disconnected from the title entirely.

Months? Have you ever earned 100k faction?

I never said, by the way, I thought it should be connected to the faction titles. its just a simple fact that it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

But to answer your final question, if the skills must be kept tied to the titles, yes, I fully expect them to retroactively base the titels on faction earned, not faction spent. After all, they did all those other things without regard for the people who'd feel victimized.

Those other examples affected eveyone equally. They were blanket actions - bam - HoD swords now have cheap variants and the value of all of them drop. Luck determined who made or lost as the result of the HoD sword, for example.

As I have said before, I am fine with that solution. Retroactivity if enacted needs to reimburse farmers then for what they could have sold in jade and amber.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

16 Jun 2007 at 22:41 - 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Nugget

Well they did it for the hero title track. Why not this one.

Because fame was simply that. You didnt have the option to apply it in one place or in another place.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

16 Jun 2007 at 22:53 - 112

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Those things were "fair" because they affected everyone equally. One day we woke up and HoD swords were no longer anywhere near as valuble as they were the day before. True for each and every one of us. The day for the end of the HoD sword had simply come. It wasnt the end of my HoD sword's value while yours still retained it. Granted, some of us lost a lot more than others in the action, but that had nothing to do with Anet or that "nerf." It was simply you buying six when they could be crafted at HoD and my buying three off the open market at their peak value, for example.

But how is it different from: "One day we woke up and the Allegiance titles were based on Faction earned, not Faction spent. The Kurzicks and the Luxons realized that the actual act of fighting for them was more important than signing silly proclamations of allegiance." That would be true for everyone as well wouldn't it? And similarly, some people would have made some riches that others never had the inclinations or opportunity to. I never liked Factions much to begin with and going back there to grind is just out of the question for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Months? Have you ever earned 100k faction?

I made 160k back in the day. Nowadays, I play 2 nights a week and occasional a bit longer during weekends. I barely have enough time to vanquish one area in one sitting. I could spend that little time obsessively farming for faction, but I could also just savage myself with a cheesegrater, rub in some salt and lemon juice, and have just as much fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Those other examples affected eveyone equally. They were blanket actions - bam - HoD swords now have cheap variants and the value of all of them drop. Luck determined who made or lost as the result of the HoD sword, for example.

As I have said before, I am fine with that solution. Retroactivity if enacted needs to reimburse farmers then for what they could have sold in jade and amber.

As I said before, changing the titles from 'Faction spent' to 'Faction earned' would just be another example of a blanket change that only has a few people suffering from a missed opportunity to make some gold. No different from some of my examples. (Disregard the refund points if you must they weren't about gold and that's what this all seems to boil down to: people missing out on some gold.)

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

16 Jun 2007 at 23:00 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I made 160k back in the day. Nowadays, I play 2 nights a week and occasional a bit longer during weekends. I barely have enough time to vanquish one area in one sitting. I could spend that little time obsessively farming for faction, but I could also just savage myself with a cheesegrater, rub in some salt and lemon juice, and have just as much fun.

Well, never said it would be fun.

Just didnt see it taking months. Please dont use the cheesegrater that way. Didnt you see the consumer warning label on the backside? I know. I dont read them either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

As I said before, changing the titles from 'Faction spent' to 'Faction earned' would just be another example of a blanket change that only has a few people suffering from a missed opportunity to make some gold. No different from some of my examples. (Disregard the refund points if you must they weren't about gold and that's what this all seems to boil down to: people missing out on some gold.)

Cashing in on the HoD sword thing was only an opportunity if you knew that was going to happen. That's how its different. As a hypothetical example no one knew of that nerf and no one took advantage. However, you're asking Anet to knowingly double reward those who cashed faction in while not reimbursing those who did not.

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

16 Jun 2007 at 23:05 - 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

When did fairness ever come into creating an even playing field?

Remember HoD swords? Boy, did some people get screwed there!

Remember attribute refund points? Should we require every starting player to use that old system until they hit 5,000,000 xp? Would only be fair wouldn't it? That how it was for me, after all.

Remember the material trader reset? Free gold for everyone who happened to be playing.

Remember rune prices before the drop rates changed? Boy do I feel stupid now for paying almost 100k for a superior absorption. And then they nerfed it!

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Fairness? Never! You win some, you lose some, and I sure hope I'm going to win this one.

Those are completely different. You had a choice. Amber/Jade or a title. Now you want all those people that chose to get amber/jade to also have a title while the people that chose a title to get nothing. Everyone had the choice. Either or. You dont deserve to get both while others dont. The people that chose titles did nothing wrong.

And again I have to say. I chose to donate for my TITLE. NOT for my alliance. None of my alliances were anywhere NEAR close enough to own a town. I did not ever donate faction in hopes of gaining a town. It was purely for the title. I gained zero besides a title. Now everyone wants to keep all the gold they gained plus get a title they didnt want before while I and others miss out on all the gold we COULD have gotten by doing it your way. If back then I knew that I would one day be able to exchange my faction for amber/jade AND get my title at the same time I would have gotten the amber/jade instead of donating. Same as how you didnt know you would be able to get both. But you chose amber/jade and I chose the title. Deal with it. You made the choice. I'd rather have gold then some crappy pve skill that I likely wont ever use.

Voltar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

My dog let's me crash at her place.

POB

R/

16 Jun 2007 at 23:06 - 115

even though i'm in the same spot (400k+ earned and like 100kish donated) i can see where the people who title-farmed the faction are coming from.

in some sense, the travel scrolls completely negate any benefit gathered from the title track. to give us credit for making money off jadeite and amber would be incerdibly disrespectful to the people that actually worked on the title before there was a reason to.

if you haven't played wow, then i'll let you in on a few things. disrespecting people's efforts is something that blizzard does in order to keep people grinding crap (which equals $15 a month). arenanet has gone out of theie way to create the ldoa title (which i can't confirm even exists but i'll play along for now) to reward people who went through an unreasonable amount of effort to death-level themselves in pre-searing (probably because the devs thought it was kinda clever how they did it).

that's 2 mutually exclusive attitudes from 2 completelely different development teams...it's also why i have spent more than an average of $15 a month on arenanet and $0 on blizzard.

i'll stop there because my normally, "long-winded," posts get a little more rediculous when i've had a little, "drinky-winky".

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

16 Jun 2007 at 23:08 - 116

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

However, you're asking Anet to knowingly double reward those who cashed faction in while not reimbursing those who did not.

I'm not asking that, I'm just saying it would be perfectly in character for them to do so. Besides, is that any worse than 'double rewarding' the town-owners? That's what it's like now, they used their faction to own towns at some point, and now they get free skills.

The only people who'd have any right to complain are the people who solely donated to get a title. I'm willing to bet many of those people will also gain a substantial amount of title progress, because I don't believe many of them never got any jade/amber at all.

So, show of hands please: who among us donated every single point of Faction to an allegiance, just for the title, without the express goal of owning a town. You're the victims if this change is made. Raise your voices in protest! All twelve of you.

Draxanoth

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Washington

Archons of the Condemned

W/Me

16 Jun 2007 at 23:10 - 117

/Signed

This is a good idea. They already track total earned, redirect one pointer and you're done. Take like 5 seconds. If they're gonna force us to PVP they might as well reimburse us for the the trouble we've already gone to for armor.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

16 Jun 2007 at 23:21 - 118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

Those are completely different. You had a choice. Amber/Jade or a title. Now you want all those people that chose to get amber/jade to also have a title while the people that chose a title to get nothing. Everyone had the choice. Either or. You dont deserve to get both while others dont. The people that chose titles did nothing wrong.

Again, I don't want the title, I want reasonable access to the skills.

If you choose to ignore the other half of the story, there's a difference, yes. But as it turned out, people were making uninformed choices. It wasn't "amber or title" but it turned out to be "amber or skills (and a title but who cares)". People who didn't care about the title also did nothing wrong, but they're screwed out of the new skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

And again I have to say. I chose to donate for my TITLE. NOT for my alliance. None of my alliances were anywhere NEAR close enough to own a town. I did not ever donate faction in hopes of gaining a town. It was purely for the title. I gained zero besides a title. Now everyone wants to keep all the gold they gained plus get a title they didnt want before while I and others miss out on all the gold we COULD have gotten by doing it your way. If back then I knew that I would one day be able to exchange my faction for amber/jade AND get my title at the same time I would have gotten the amber/jade instead of donating.

We've all made decisions we regret. I never had a HoD sword forged. Imagine the platinum I could've made if I'd know they'd be removed. Imagine the skills I could've had if I'd know the title mattered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

Same as how you didnt know you would be able to get both. But you chose amber/jade and I chose the title. Deal with it. You made the choice. I'd rather have gold then some crappy pve skill that I likely wont ever use.

I couldn't care less about the gold. I'd have gone for the title if I'd know I'd get some skills fourteen months after the fact. But you can keep your title, I don't want it.

JeniM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

W/E

16 Jun 2007 at 23:26 - 119

/signed I want my faction back !!!!

Lol after all these great things i couldn't care less if we get faction back or not but it would give me 100K boost

Amber adds to title + more tiers + new skills = I'm happy

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

A/

16 Jun 2007 at 23:29 - 120

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marth Reynolds

/Signed

But probaly not gonna happen... Looks at wisdom and treasure hunter title :[
And if you think ppl in big alliance got nothing for those factions donated.. they have accsess to merchants with lower prices if they own a town, not to mention that a lot of them also ferried for donations.

that isn't possible, the game never tracked chests and IDs before, unlike fame and missions completed