Retroactive Luxon/Kurzick allegiance title track? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

16 Jun 2007 at 23:31 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I'm not asking that, I'm just saying it would be perfectly in character for them to do so.

I dont see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Besides, is that any worse than 'double rewarding' the town-owners? That's what it's like now, they used their faction to own towns at some point, and now they get free skills.

Owning a town is not a reward from a title, specifically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

The only people who'd have any right to complain are the people who solely donated to get a title. I'm willing to bet many of those people will also gain a substantial amount of title progress, because I don't believe many of them never got any jade/amber at all.

Those who invested a lot of time in the title track, irregardless as to whether or not they were in an Alliance that owned a town, and even if they were irregardless if that gave some ample benefit of some sort, deserve what comes from the investment into said track. That or reimbursement if everyone else gains retroactive benefit from cashing in on jade and amber.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

So, show of hands please: who among us donated every single point of Faction to an allegiance, just for the title, without the express goal of owning a town. You're the victims if this change is made. Raise your voices in protest! All twelve of you.

Its far more than twelve, as well as the title track is not inherently linked to town ownership. No reason to leave out reimbursement for those who worked on the title track as opposed to spending the faction elsewhere. I'm fine on siding with retroactivity, just not fine on doing so without retroactivity for all - and that doesnt matter how many it is.

KamikazeChicken

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

16 Jun 2007 at 23:33 - 122

Quote:

Originally Posted by shivanSoule

now would you rather donate faction for the alliance and get 1200g picks, or exchange faction for passage scrolls/amber/jade then sell them for gold and still get to advance the title?

What people do now is none of our business. This discussion is about what people did in the past based on the individual circumstances.

also i think anet doesnt have any records or kept track on the amount of faction traded for amber/jade. if they did then those who did would already have high rank titles. its the same thing last time, when titles were first introduced. the game didnt keep track of opened chests, identified rares...

The game keeps track of faction earned. If anet decided to go by faction EARNED, I'd have tiers in both luxon and kurzick. I guested to play with friends just that often.

012345678901

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

16 Jun 2007 at 23:34 - 123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I couldn't care less about the gold. I'd have gone for the title if I'd know I'd get some skills fourteen months after the fact.

I couldn't care less about the pve skills. I'd have gone for the gold if I'd know I'd get a title fourteen months after the fact.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

16 Jun 2007 at 23:39 - 124

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

I dont see it.

Rose-tinted glasses I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Owning a town is not a reward from a title, specifically.

Who claimed it was? It's a reward for donating Faction, and all the people who donated just to control towns are now rewarded again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

I'm one of those and I am not even complaining. Glad I have the right, I suppose.

However, to those who invested a lot of time in the title track, irregardless as to whether or not they were in an Alliance that owned a town, and even if they were irregardless if that gave some ample benefit of some sort, they deserve what comes from the investment into said track. That or reimbursement if everyone else gains retroactive benefit from cashing in on jade and amber.

You keep bringing up this weird and alien concept of fairness. It has no bearing on ANet's decisions for this game. Their stance has always been, the best possible game for the greatest number of people. Screw whoever falls by the wayside. There will be a change, you can count on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

You're just being silly. Its far more than twelve, as well as the title track is not inherently linked to town ownership. No reason to leave out reimbursement for those who worked on the title track as opposed to spending the faction elsewhere.

No reason to not to, except for some virtual money that you never even actually had.

VitisVinifera

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Northern California

HoTR

N/Me

16 Jun 2007 at 23:39 - 125

/signed

I simply think it's the fair and right thing to do. For the obvious reasons stated above -- I wasn't down with FF'ing (except for a few brief stints with various Cavalon owners), I just turned them into jades and ambers, nearly all of which are still in my materials tab.

When these way, way after-the-fact rules changes are implemented, by principal anet should consider how that affects people who've made divergent choices in the past without knowledge of what came now

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

16 Jun 2007 at 23:55 - 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Rose-tinted glasses I guess.

Oh come now. You seriously think some people specifically got left out of making a killing on HoD swords or losing out on them, by DESIGN, by Anet's choice? Obviously not. That was pure luck or, lack thereof. Choosing to retroactively allow trading in jade or amber to benefit the title track while specifically choosing not to allow reimbursement for those that did not do that is a choice by design that Anet obviously chose not to make out of *gasp* fairness and yet is the one you support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Who claimed it was? It's a reward for donating Faction, and all the people who donated just to control towns are now rewarded again.

They are not rewarded again. Town ownership has nothing inherent to do with the title track nor is that in and of itself a reward coming from a title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You keep bringing up this weird and alien concept of fairness. It has no bearing on ANet's decisions for this game. Their stance has always been, the best possible game for the greatest number of people. Screw whoever falls by the wayside. There will be a change, you can count on it.

Lol. In skill balancing, it affects all of us. Period. Whether we like it or not. I play on the same server as you. So when a skill is nerfed to the point that I suffer and stop using the skill and you never used the skill so you could care less, its STILL perfectly fair because had you actually used the skill, you'd be using the same nerfed one as me. It just happens that it was UNFORTUNATE for me that I was using it, and LUCKY for you that you were not. You have the truly alien concept of fairness because you would say that was unfair to me, but fair to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

No reason to not to, except for some virtual money that you never even actually had.

Gold in game is indeed pointless, but so is a virtual game or any game ultimately, outside of a diversion. Gold in game however is NOT pointless within the context of said game.

Niila

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

16 Jun 2007 at 23:59 - 127

I really don't know why Aera Lure's seem so hard to understand this..

People who gave faction to alliance got: title, towns, skills
People who used faction for rare materials got: rare materials

People who used faction for rare materials didn't know that title will have some importance one day.

If anet would change your total faction earned to title track what will people who gave their faction to alliance lose? Nothing, simply nothing. They got their title anyway, they got their towns if they did it enough. Everybody is a winner here, simple as that.

And don't start telling "we should get amber if you get title" You already got your towns and titles, that's why you donated it to your alliance.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

17 Jun 2007 at 00:07 - 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niila

I really don't know why Aera Lure's seem so hard to understand this..

Sigh. What you apparently dont understand is I understand it but do not agree. Actually read anything I posted?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niila

People who gave faction to alliance got: title, towns, skills
People who used faction for rare materials got: rare materials

By your definition these two things are equal. Its really this way though:

Before the changes:
People who gave faction to alliance got: title
People who used faction for rare materials got: rare materials (gold equivalent)

After the changes:
People who gave faction to alliance got: title
People who used faction for rare materials got: rare materials (gold equivalent)

See the difference? I dont either. Skills are available to both, post changes, so not listed.

Town ownership came not from the title but from an alliance. You didnt have to be in an alliance to work on the title if you wanted and you might be in an alliance desiring to own a town but could not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niila

People who used faction for rare materials didn't know that title will have some importance one day.

Neither did the people who worked on the title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niila

If anet would change your total faction earned to title track what will people who gave their faction to alliance lose? Nothing, simply nothing. They got their title anyway, they got their towns if they did it enough. Everybody is a winner here, simple as that.

Fine. Here is what you propose:

Before the changes:
People who gave faction to alliance got: title
People who used faction for rare materials got: rare materials (gold equivalent)

After the changes:
People who gave faction to alliance got: title
People who used faction for rare materials got: rare materials (gold equivalent), title

See an imbalance? I do too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niila

And don't start telling "we should get amber if you get title" You already got your towns and titles, that's why you donated it to your alliance.

And this is wrong, so here it is corrected, if you wish to go retroactive:

Retroactive:
People who gave faction to alliance got: title, rare materials (gold equivalent)
People who used faction for rare materials got: rare materials (gold equivalent), title

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

17 Jun 2007 at 00:14 - 129

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niila

I really don't know why Aera Lure's seem so hard to understand this..

People who gave faction to alliance got: title, towns, skills
People who used faction for rare materials got: rare materials

People who used faction for rare materials didn't know that title will have some importance one day.

If anet would change your total faction earned to title track what will people who gave their faction to alliance lose? Nothing, simply nothing. They got their title anyway, they got their towns if they did it enough. Everybody is a winner here, simple as that.

And don't start telling "we should get amber if you get title" You already got your towns and titles, that's why you donated it to your alliance.

And how many times do we have to tell you that not everyone who donated to alliance did so for their alliance? Many people did it PURELY for the TITLE.

I donated for a title and not a single second did I EVER have any town ownership benefit. Town ownership has ZERO to do with this.

kai200

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2006

A/Mo

17 Jun 2007 at 00:18 - 130

Aera, I've been keeping up with this debate for a while, and I just want to jump in. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but look at it this way. The majority, and I may be going out on a limb here, but the majority of the people who have the higher tiers of this title already, were in an alliance that held a town for some amount of time. Sure, it may not have been long, but they still benefitted from it. There was some benefit to them before this change. The title was nice, but I want to know, how many people honestly boosted this title to the 250k requirement, without being in a FF guild/ one that controlled at least a lowly town. Not many, if I'm thinking clearly. Now, that in and of itself is reward enough. 1) Knowing "Hey, my alliance owns a town. That's pretty cool!" and 2) Assuming they hit Cavalon/HzH, ferrying to elite missions. and oh yeah, 3) Discounted merchant. Who doesn't like discounts? People who turned that faction in for Jade/Amber got... Uhm... Well they got Jade and Amber. That's all. I've been playing for a while, and yeah, you made money off of Jade/Amber, but the last time I checked (Months ago...) The price was around 500 per piece. Not exactly a gold mine. Is the idea behind the titles "Who donated the most to their alliance, and after a while crafted materials"? or is it "Who actually earned such and such amount of faction, and is being rewarded for doing so"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

And how many times do we have to tell you that not everyone who donated to alliance did so for their alliance? Many people did it PURELY for the TITLE.

I donated for a title and not a single second did I EVER have any town ownership benefit. Town ownership has ZERO to do with this.

Alright, even going by that. You donated for a title. That was your goal right, to get a title? Okay, there you go. You donated faction into the pit, and you recieved absolutely no other satisfaction other than seeing that "Friend of the Luxons/Kurzicks" title under your name. Again, there's your reward. Signifcantly smaller than those who donated for other reasons, but you still got something out of it. Everyone got something out of donating for this title, be it for materials, a title, or a town. We all earned this faction, why is a certain group being punished for the way they spent that?

Takeko Nakano

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Great Britain

W/P

17 Jun 2007 at 00:25 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Fairness? Never! You win some, you lose some, and I sure hope I'm going to win this one.

Exactly. I paid a fair amount of platinum on Super Runes of Absorbtion and Monk Runes before the prices came down to what they are today. Am I complaining? No, because I made a choice.

I think there's too much sour grapes from people that didn't get raw materials. As I said, not all of us sold them on immediately - many spent it on our own armour. So don't complain that we're expecting to get rich and have the title benefits. We're just asking for what ANet have said people should have - recognition for the fact they earn faction and that it doesn't matter how they spend it.

Andisa Kalorn

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

[PMS]

17 Jun 2007 at 00:27 - 132

People who chose the title over the money made their decision. And if they were pursuing the title without joining an alliance trying to control a town, then they made the decision there, again, to work on the title over the money. You still have your title. Why should you get money when you chose against it, not once but twice?

People who chose the money over the title did so because they didn't care about the title or controlling a town. They were denied a chance to choose between the money and the skills, however. This is where the unfairness is.

Just last week there was an increased faction weekend. People who wanted to work on their title or helping their alliance control towns got to have full benefit of this. People who wanted the skills didn't even find out until it was too late. How is this fair?

People who wanted the titles GOT their titles and their titles wouldn't be taken away by this change. People who wanted the skills (and not the titles, but anet in its wisdom decided to link the two) were left out in the cold.

Orphan Anthem

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Kinetic Fusion [kF]

17 Jun 2007 at 00:31 - 133

there are now allowing people who exchange for amber get points twords title, so its only fair that we get the same exchange rate for amber before the update. its not the same rate as amber given to a guild but its SOMETHING. its simply a matter of fairness would you be happy if the faction you donated didnt count twords the new title track?

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

17 Jun 2007 at 00:43 - 134

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andisa Kalorn

Just last week there was an increased faction weekend. People who wanted to work on their title or helping their alliance control towns got to have full benefit of this. People who wanted the skills didn't even find out until it was too late. How is this fair?

Why is the concept of fair and unfair so intangible? it was fair because at that time, last week, obviously the skills werent out yet and no one knew they were coming, so with an AB weekend bonus those were actually the only two things to do with extra earned faction outside of selling amber or jade. Its not as though anyone knew of the upcoming skills and took advantage of the AB weekend to prepare, while others did not, at least theoretically, because yeah, that would be unfair.

What it was, though, was very bad planning on Anet's part, I agree. They had to have anticipated the desire for a run on faction obviously, why not help players out a bit to that end? Possibly they wished more time to be spent by players to earn the required 100k if they didnt have it, so made the skills come out after the AB weekend, but I dont agree with that choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andisa Kalorn

People who wanted the titles GOT their titles and their titles wouldn't be taken away by this change. People who wanted the skills (and not the titles, but anet in its wisdom decided to link the two) were left out in the cold.

Yeah, but if you want to reward some with retroactivity, you simply reward all.

GodofAcid

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Massachusetts, USA

E/

17 Jun 2007 at 00:50 - 135

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

i dunno where you shop, but the stores I buy games at have a 30 day price guarantee, and will match an advertised price no questions asked if you show the ad. sooo i guess your anecdote kinda goes towards making it retroactive?

Don't put words in my mouth, I don't appreciate that. I'm completely against it being retroactive and I stated that clearly, don't spin it otherwise.

Andisa Kalorn

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

[PMS]

17 Jun 2007 at 00:57 - 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Why is the concept of fair and unfair so intangible?

It wasn't unfair because of the intentions of the faction farmers. It was unfair because anet KNEW they were going to release these skills, and they did this event anyway. The whole thing is unfair because anet never gave us a hint of them until just now, and so never allowed us to prepare. They did say they were going to make more sunspear skills. They said this before a weekend with double sunspear points. This allowed me to use this, and I've been working on my titles since then too. So I was ready for those skills.

The faction thing... is just a mess. Giving PvE only skills to ABers working on a very long, tedious title? One which most PvErs don't have any rank on at all?

Ideally I'd prefer them to scrap this idea altogether, restore the faction titles to they way they worked, and come up with a better idea as to what the skills should be linked to. One that allows people to actually max the skills without months of grind.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

17 Jun 2007 at 01:17 - 137

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andisa Kalorn

It wasn't unfair because of the intentions of the faction farmers. It was unfair because anet KNEW they were going to release these skills, and they did this event anyway. The whole thing is unfair because anet never gave us a hint of them until just now, and so never allowed us to prepare. They did say they were going to make more sunspear skills. They said this before a weekend with double sunspear points. This allowed me to use this, and I've been working on my titles since then too. So I was ready for those skills.

Well like I say, that was poor planning on Anet's part imho and surely can call that choice they made unfair. What I was saying was not unfair was simply the fact that it affected us all the same way. None of us got to take advantage of AB weekend specifically for these skills. No one had an advantage in any way in that regard. Anet didnt give it to us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andisa Kalorn

The faction thing... is just a mess. Giving PvE only skills to ABers working on a very long, tedious title? One which most PvErs don't have any rank on at all?

Yeah, its tedious I agree. Most people wont advance them beyond level 1-2. I'm not. Nor do I really think placing skills on that title track was the best thing, though I can see a possible objective: keep the Alliance system going by having a reward to that title track for those that participate. Amber and jade redemption count towards the track so those not donating to an Alliance have a different thing they can do with their faction while working on the skill development. I'm sure this was seen as win/win at Anet, but its such a long track and there would be those unhappy about being unable to max them within any stretch of reason unless you were a pretty serious faction guild. I understand that completely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andisa Kalorn

Ideally I'd prefer them to scrap this idea altogether, restore the faction titles to they way they worked, and come up with a better idea as to what the titles should be linked to. One that allows people to actually max the skills without months of grind.

Maxing the titles would indeed be months of grind. And then some. I was speculating on the fly above as to why skills showed up on this track. I'm pretty sure that is why they are there and also therefore am pretty sure they will remain there for those reasons.

Draxanoth

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Washington

Archons of the Condemned

W/Me

17 Jun 2007 at 03:54 - 138

We were supposed to get more LB skills. I'm kinda surprised that isn't what they ended up being tied to. I never made any money off amber, I bought armor, it's just a pain to drag me out of PVE to get skills FOR PVE. Retro would save me the headache. If they based it on total earned and just left the title alone all together I'd be happy, you'd be happy, everyone would be happy.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

17 Jun 2007 at 05:37 - 139

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodofAcid

Don't put words in my mouth, I don't appreciate that. I'm completely against it being retroactive and I stated that clearly, don't spin it otherwise.

I wasn't saying your stance is that it should be made retroactive, I was saying that your little story was more towards the other point, whether you intended it to be or not.

Let's just completely remove the connection between factions and skills and make it go off of cantha protector title, ya? thats something that takes a lot of work but isn't grinding, much better idea, ya?

Vilaptca

Pre-Searing Vanquisher

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

17 Jun 2007 at 08:15 - 140

I find myself most upset about this because of ONE thing.

Miscommunication.

If we had been told that we would be receiving PvE skills based on this title track, even but a month ago. I wouldn't be griping now. I would have worked on the title that I had previously thought worthless.

I believe that many others would have too.

Even if they announced it the day before the start of that double faction for winning AB event, I would have at least started working on the title.

I'm just really confused as to why they didn't tell us sooner, do you know how much faction I JUST within the last 2 weeks handed out for Amber. I don't even need the amber...or want it for that matter...but I had no reason to start a title track that would require some insane effort from myself to even come close to getting. I just don't have the time with everything else in my life to get a title like that. Granted it is much better now, thank you. I can get it sooner than I expected.

I don't know...its almost like you've been mislead or betrayed...

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

17 Jun 2007 at 08:33 - 141

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andisa Kalorn

People who chose the money over the title did so because they didn't care about the title or controlling a town. They were denied a chance to choose between the money and the skills, however. This is where the unfairness is.

How can they be denied a choice when they have chosen something? This is paradoxical. U can only say that you didnt have all the information, neither did the ones that went for the title. All have chosen and have to live with the consequences. They chose material gain over a title, and now they want both? So people who FFed dont get the amber or gold retroactively (i want it like with a put option at the price back then before it dropped).

Comeon be realistic and start working on the title now, we dont complain that Kurzicks have it so much easier with the numerous FF quests which are more simple then luxon ones? (not all get titles by ABing)

It like with the lucky title, currently very handy, but i could have had more if I chose to spend money on it in the early days, when it was still a worthless title. Same with chests. Live with youyr choices.

bilateralrope

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

New Zealand

Xen Of Onslaught (Xen of the Pacific division)

17 Jun 2007 at 11:23 - 142

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

How can they be denied a choice when they have chosen something? This is paradoxical. U can only say that you didnt have all the information, neither did the ones that went for the title. All have chosen and have to live with the consequences. They chose material gain over a title, and now they want both? So people who FFed dont get the amber or gold retroactively (i want it like with a put option at the price back then before it dropped).

Before the update most people had a choice between working on a useless title or getting a small amount of gold, and the people in the holding alliances get to also earn gold because they hold a town. So tell me how choosing to spend on a title that isn't recognized as showing skill is the logical choice given what we knew before the update.

Quote:

Comeon be realistic and start working on the title now, we dont complain that Kurzicks have it so much easier with the numerous FF quests which are more simple then luxon ones? (not all get titles by ABing)

It like with the lucky title, currently very handy, but i could have had more if I chose to spend money on it in the early days, when it was still a worthless title. Same with chests. Live with youyr choices.

Before the update, the only titles that directly effected your ability to help a group were the sunspear (from the signet) and lightbringer titles. The lucky, treasure hunter, wisdom only effected how much gold you could earn.

But my main complaint here is that people who put in equal work, but made the more logical chose given what they knew are screwed over in favor of people who didn't. And then to further inflame things ANET decides that the same actions now count towards the title.

greenthumb

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

17 Jun 2007 at 11:30 - 143

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

How can they be denied a choice when they have chosen something? This is paradoxical. U can only say that you didnt have all the information, neither did the ones that went for the title. All have chosen and have to live with the consequences. They chose material gain over a title, and now they want both? So people who FFed dont get the amber or gold retroactively (i want it like with a put option at the price back then before it dropped).

There is a difference between simply having such a "choice" and being able to make an informed rational decision.

This is a common issue with MMORPGs over a long period of time. Game changes are eventually made to aspects of the game in the long run, to enhance, for balance reasons, etc. Often the choices that players made and are stuck with do not seem fair since there is now new information available which wasn't available at the time of their earlier decision.

In GW, for char skills and attributes, this isn't an issue since players can reassign everything in a town/outpost (when players can't do something like that as in many other games, often skill nerfs and updates cause major outrage).

In GW, with the level cap, the acquisition of titles has become a form of acquiring and displaying experience within the game. By adding new benefits long after the titles are in place and after players made their decision on which titles to acquire, ANet is creating certain "haves" and "have-nots" with respect to the new benefits, but there is a justified feeling of unfairness since that information was not available to them at the time of their decision. It is not regarded as a level-playing field with respect to the new benefits. Those who invested in these titles don't deserve these new benefits either since that wasn't even a factor in the decision to pursue those titles. It's a windfall bonus.

For the sake of improving the game, situations like this may eventually occur. ANet could simply have opted not to provide for such new Luxon/Kurzick PvE skills avoiding such an issue.

To the extent that ANet can reasonably address such an issue, ANet should consider doing so. ANet's more dedicated customers are probably ones who have earned a lot of Kurzick/Luxon faction, and ANet does keep track of such information. To turn a blind eye to that with respect to this release given that no one had this information previously to base their decision on how to spend faction, it's just not rational on the part of ANet. ANet should have anticipated such a situation would arise.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

17 Jun 2007 at 11:39 - 144

I just pose this question: how does it hurt people who have the title if everyone who has done sufficient work is given the skills? and by sufficient work I don't mean farmed a title for weeks on end. I mean something like, completed the factions campaign, or gotten protector of cantha. something that actually means something other than "hey look at me i have too much free time".

Sunspear skills are usable by anyone who has finished any significant part of the nightfall campaign, and just a bit stronger for those that put in extra effort. Factions skills should be the same way for factions owners.

william1975

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Dragons of Torment (DOA)

Me/

17 Jun 2007 at 12:07 - 145

I don't think that anet should start to make things retroactive, and I agree with the few in this post that say it is those people being greedy, if they weren't interested in getting the title then they shouldn't complain.

I'm a title chaser and have been on and off chasing both the Luxon and Kurzick titles, I'm not in a huge guild that owns towns, and I'm the only one that farms this way in my guild, before this update all i got from the faction transfer was points to my title, I gained no benfit, no gold, other than getting further along in my title,

I do not see why this should be implemented, I don't want to be given 400 amber just because i chose to transfer faction for title but now could have transfered for skills and amber as well as get the title, I see none of those supporting the OP's idea have even suggested this, which goes to show how greedy and selfish a request this is.

My luxon title if this was implemented would jump up a good 40k as in my previous guild i was unable to transfer to luxon so had to take Jade instead. However much this addition to my title would be useful I don't want it. Things change and this is a change for the better, I don't need any retroactive implementations, neither does anyone else. As usual players are whining about a great update, and instead of being grateful are complaining that they should be getting more

/unsigned

JeniM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

W/E

17 Jun 2007 at 12:09 - 146

MIRAL your a genius
Thats the best plan once you make Protector of Cantha your faction is given back as thanks as lets face it endgame greens aint worth the work

My Exhulted Aegis = Sold
i now use Shield of the Lion for 3 reasons
Same Stats
Dyeable
NOT a horrible skin like the endgame aegis - Worst skin ever if your not into graves as lets face it thats what it looks like some kind of tomb decoration

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

17 Jun 2007 at 12:22 - 147

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

I find myself most upset about this because of ONE thing.

Miscommunication.

If we had been told that we would be receiving PvE skills based on this title track, even but a month ago. I wouldn't be griping now. I would have worked on the title that I had previously thought worthless.

I believe that many others would have too.

/seconded

i never had any intention of getting the "friend of..." title, no, I have to get it to get these skills? (although are the skills nessecary? no, but its useful to have them)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

MIRAL your a genius
Thats the best plan once you make Protector of Cantha your faction is given back as thanks as lets face it endgame greens aint worth the work

My Exhulted Aegis = Sold
i now use Shield of the Lion for 3 reasons
Same Stats
Dyeable
NOT a horrible skin like the endgame aegis - Worst skin ever if your not into graves as lets face it thats what it looks like some kind of tomb decoration

Personally, i think the exalted Aegis is the prettiest shield skin out there... /my opinion

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

17 Jun 2007 at 12:22 - 148

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeniM

MIRAL your a genius
Thats the best plan once you make Protector of Cantha your faction is given back as thanks as lets face it endgame greens aint worth the work

My Exhulted Aegis = Sold
i now use Shield of the Lion for 3 reasons
Same Stats
Dyeable
NOT a horrible skin like the endgame aegis - Worst skin ever if your not into graves as lets face it thats what it looks like some kind of tomb decoration

ya it could even still be scaled... purchasable when you complete the campaign, then get stronger for each mission you have masters on. 12 missions, 12 ranks of allegiance titles. fits perfectly!

and hey, it even syncs well with the original intent of PvE skills to make hard mode more survivable post-nerfs... finish campaign in normal mode, you get access to hardmode along with new skills to use in it...

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

17 Jun 2007 at 12:28 - 149

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

/seconded
Personally, i think the exalted Aegis is the prettiest shield skin out there... /my opinion

its a good gothic design, fits well with kurzicks, bit odd for luxon...

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

17 Jun 2007 at 12:31 - 150

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

its a good gothic design, fits well with kurzicks, bit odd for luxon...

Aye, looks great on my samurai Warrior, with his katana, although I still can't decide on which armour would be best, currently in Tyrian

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

17 Jun 2007 at 12:43 - 151

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Aye, looks great on my samurai Warrior, with his katana, although I still can't decide on which armour would be best, currently in Tyrian

samurai... hmm, 15k templar, 15k canthan, elite sunspear, or ancient

i'd probably go with elite sunspear dyed gold.

Lonan is in primeval with exalted aegis and a forgotten sword, that works quite well

noblepaladin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

17 Jun 2007 at 15:23 - 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

I just pose this question: how does it hurt people who have the title if everyone who has done sufficient work is given the skills? and by sufficient work I don't mean farmed a title for weeks on end. I mean something like, completed the factions campaign, or gotten protector of cantha. something that actually means something other than "hey look at me i have too much free time".

Sunspear skills are usable by anyone who has finished any significant part of the nightfall campaign, and just a bit stronger for those that put in extra effort. Factions skills should be the same way for factions owners.

Yeah, I agree with this. The Luxon/Kurzick titles are simply too much grind. Just by simply playing the game, you will probably reach level 8 Sunspear by the end of NF, so the difference between the "elite" with level 10 is not big (also, it just takes a few hours to get to level 10 in hard mode).

I don't really care that much about retroactive titles, I don't have much faction at all (although I have a reason to start farming now). But the logic that people who got amber don't deserve the title is wrong. People had two choices before this patch came out, to get amber (for some personal gain) or to contribute to alliance (which could result in exclusive access to elite mission and/or discount merchant). The same logic could apply backwards, why should the guy who made ridiculous amounts of money ferrying or reselling lockpicks through the discount merchant get to have a significant advantage over the people in small guilds that don't hold towns (these guys never contribute to alliance, since there is no point unless you can get a town)? Personally, I'd prefer it if they made a new thing that is similar to sunspear or lightbringer and make it easier to get the skills or at least to get the skills up to a high level quicker.

Clone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

17 Jun 2007 at 15:33 - 153

Basically, I just don't like this idea at all. Most of the people here are posting because they think they've already farmed enough for the new skills. I don't think should need to farm to get skills in the first place. Way to abandon your skill over time spent paradigm anet.

Woutsie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Belgium

17 Jun 2007 at 15:44 - 154

/signed but I don't think Anet can add up the faction spent on amber/jade

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

17 Jun 2007 at 15:49 - 155

This reminds me of when Survivor first was put into the game and 100% of everyone's original main characters were screwed over without the chance of getting it since they didn't know beforehand their deaths would be held against them. Anet didn't do anything to stop screwing over those beloved original characters and give them an equal opportunity at earning Survivor. I don't see why Faction amber/jade traders should get more special treatment than Survivor title seekers who never had a chance to get Survivor on their old main character.

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

17 Jun 2007 at 15:59 - 156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clone

Way to abandon your skill over time spent paradigm anet.

but it doesn't, as this doesn't affect pvp in any way shape or form, these are put in SPECIFICALLY for those that like to farm and spend time on this sort of thing

AlienFromBeyond

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

W/

17 Jun 2007 at 16:02 - 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

This reminds me of when Survivor first was put into the game and 100% of everyone's original main characters were screwed over without the chance of getting it since they didn't know beforehand their deaths would be held against them. Anet didn't do anything to stop screwing over those beloved original characters and give them an equal opportunity at earning Survivor. I don't see why Faction amber/jade traders should get more special treatment than Survivor title seekers who never had a chance to get Survivor on their old main character.

Some of us are still pissed off at the Survivor title

.

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

17 Jun 2007 at 16:07 - 158

Survivor title is still stupid for old characters.

The new skills are not screwing over skill vs. time spent. You can totally OMGWTFBBQPWN PvE without any of these skills. Can you do it better now? Yes. But is it required to win at PvE? Definitely not, see examples of people beating Thunderhead Keep with no skills.

ravensong

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2006

Croatia

Me/

17 Jun 2007 at 16:25 - 159

I really want this to happen..tough i doubt it will too...

Tactical-Dillusions

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Grimsby, UK

R/

17 Jun 2007 at 17:20 - 160

I would gladly pay back the amber for the 100k faction that i haven't benefited from, but as a last resort to seeing Anet change this situation.

I was happy back in the day when my character suddenly received 56 skill points for nothing and likewise will be equally happy when i wake up one day to find a little note saying i don't have to spend X days grinding over and over to achieve a rank1 title which i otherwise wouldn't give a flying f*** about.