Is this the worst class in the game?
DokkyDok
A profession isn't bad, the person playing it can be though...I blame the show "Naruto" and the "melee = tank" mindset for why most assassin players tend not to know what they're doing...
Dodo The Extinct
Yea, Naruto (
) definately got the Whammo crowd of 13 year-olds to start Assassins. It is so tragic.
But anyways, I`d say Ritualists are generally worse than Assassins. The class could have a little more design to it. I`m not saying they are not powerful (They are), but it seems like some of their skill lines lack a clear direction (imo)
But anyways, I`d say Ritualists are generally worse than Assassins. The class could have a little more design to it. I`m not saying they are not powerful (They are), but it seems like some of their skill lines lack a clear direction (imo)
moriz
this is the final word on this topic (and other similar ones):
"the worst profession in the game is the profession currently played by the worst player."
"the worst profession in the game is the profession currently played by the worst player."
Teleport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allehelgens
Topic. Apparently everyone that plays a sin enjoys running it and making monks mad. How many people really know how to play this class?
LOL! It's probably the best class in the game imo. I love my Sin, solo ele sword farming is fun too. In fact, I can solo many places. Not only for PvE is a Sin great, but my build for PvP is fantastic as well.
Definitely not worse, but more close to the best :|.
Definitely not worse, but more close to the best :|.
Kiba of hidden leaf
Quote:
Originally Posted by DokkyDok
\I blame the show "Naruto" and the "melee = tank" mindset for why most assassin players tend not to know what they're doing...
Have you anything to back that up? No. Although most people who are fond of Naruto are young which can usually be unexperienced. Another thing is that its not the show itself that is detrimental its the character Naruto. He always rushes in first. Shikamaru, on the other hand, plans out the whole battle before = good assassin. This is one of the things that gets on my nerves.
Teleport
Better example of who plans everything out before a battle: Itachi.
fireflyry
Jesus.
Don't tell me this is going to become a Naruto debate.
Don't tell me this is going to become a Naruto debate.
haggus71
-Diverts away from Shonen Jump fanbois-
Snow Bunny, one way not to get a bad sin is to ask for a build ping. If they ping Flashing Blades, run. Run fast. If they ping a build with no self heal, bye-bye. You wouldn't take a warrior that has a build that doesn't have the basics(self-heal, adren-recharge/IAS, WY), so why take a sin without crit skills, a self-heal(Feigned, Mystic Regen), or a get-out-of-Dodge skill(dash, -sigh- shadow step if you have to)? Learn to recognize a good sin like you would a monk, warrior, or ele, and you will be surprised at how much they help out.
Snow Bunny, one way not to get a bad sin is to ask for a build ping. If they ping Flashing Blades, run. Run fast. If they ping a build with no self heal, bye-bye. You wouldn't take a warrior that has a build that doesn't have the basics(self-heal, adren-recharge/IAS, WY), so why take a sin without crit skills, a self-heal(Feigned, Mystic Regen), or a get-out-of-Dodge skill(dash, -sigh- shadow step if you have to)? Learn to recognize a good sin like you would a monk, warrior, or ele, and you will be surprised at how much they help out.
fireflyry
Quote:
Originally Posted by haggus71
If they ping a build with no self heal, bye-bye.
I disagree with that.
I PvE with mainly guildies and friends but even when I PuG I often don't take a self-heal.That is obviously team and mission specific but to be blunt our self-heals are crap and often not needed at all.
Not saying I don't ever use them or secondary class self-heals but at times it's far better to give a Sin room for more DPS and let a monk/rit deal with the healing side of things.
Sin=DPS
Monk/Rit=Heal
I leave out self-heal and damage mitigation in at least 50% of my PvE Sin game time, rarely die, and have played on my Monk with many a good Sin who have had similar builds.It's a pity using such builds, because theres a dedicated healer or two on board, only to be told "No self-heal....cya" has become a trend.A Sin with full use of his DPS and good healers to back him up is pretty impressive.
Some would argue it's about making life easier on the healers, which is sometimes required, but more often imo thats just a sign of them being bad or lazy at their class.Do people kick monks for not bringing a damage dealing skill?
It's a team game and I disagree with the philosophy of every player, regardless of class, having to have a self-heal in their build by default as it's far from the most efficient way to play the game.
I PvE with mainly guildies and friends but even when I PuG I often don't take a self-heal.That is obviously team and mission specific but to be blunt our self-heals are crap and often not needed at all.
Not saying I don't ever use them or secondary class self-heals but at times it's far better to give a Sin room for more DPS and let a monk/rit deal with the healing side of things.
Sin=DPS
Monk/Rit=Heal
I leave out self-heal and damage mitigation in at least 50% of my PvE Sin game time, rarely die, and have played on my Monk with many a good Sin who have had similar builds.It's a pity using such builds, because theres a dedicated healer or two on board, only to be told "No self-heal....cya" has become a trend.A Sin with full use of his DPS and good healers to back him up is pretty impressive.
Some would argue it's about making life easier on the healers, which is sometimes required, but more often imo thats just a sign of them being bad or lazy at their class.Do people kick monks for not bringing a damage dealing skill?
It's a team game and I disagree with the philosophy of every player, regardless of class, having to have a self-heal in their build by default as it's far from the most efficient way to play the game.
Issac
Most people that start sin give up after a while, guess the "Must follow" part was to hard for them lol. Theirs aren't many sins in the game, you mostly se quite a few in shing jea, where the sins start lol. Most people find sins hard to play, thats what I've been hearing.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiba of hidden leaf
Have you anything to back that up? No. Although most people who are fond of Naruto are young which can usually be unexperienced. Another thing is that its not the show itself that is detrimental its the character Naruto. He always rushes in first. Shikamaru, on the other hand, plans out the whole battle before = good assassin. This is one of the things that gets on my nerves.
I have lots of screenies. Of dumbass kids shadow-stepping into massive aggro. Naruto plays a big part in this :P
Issac
I agree, shadow step doesn't help in pve at all. But in pvp, depending on the situation its not to bad.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireflyry
It's a team game and I disagree with the philosophy of every player, regardless of class, having to have a self-heal in their build by default as it's far from the most efficient way to play the game.
And I agree with you on this. But despite being a team game you're still dealing with people. People who look out for themselves first, because communication isn't that great. I'm not (yet?) the kinda guy who plays with a headset in direct audio contact with his team members and scream AAH HEAL ME, all I can do now is ping My Health is 13 of 500-something and die anyway, because no-one is paying attention to the text box.
So for now, I will take a self-heal in every build. Not often a monk around anyway, let alone a good one (but PUG is my usual way of clearing missions). Being a Sin means taking (calculated) risks. Even when I'm on my own, I'd like to have a chance at making it through if the **** hits the fan.
So for now, I will take a self-heal in every build. Not often a monk around anyway, let alone a good one (but PUG is my usual way of clearing missions). Being a Sin means taking (calculated) risks. Even when I'm on my own, I'd like to have a chance at making it through if the **** hits the fan.
xaleo21
But charging in can be okay if you're bonded! Or get you Tahl to eLife Sheath you first... or eShadow Form yourself... or Death's Charge > Death's Retreat...
I Death Blossom > Moebius so if some tardo meleer annoys me while I'm shanking a caster he gets a petal of Death Blossom. Mua... ha... ha...... haha... done.
I Death Blossom > Moebius so if some tardo meleer annoys me while I'm shanking a caster he gets a petal of Death Blossom. Mua... ha... ha...... haha... done.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireflyry
It's a team game and I disagree with the philosophy of every player, regardless of class, having to have a self-heal in their build by default as it's far from the most efficient way to play the game.
you have obviously never seriously played a monk, and until you do you have no right at all to say anything like this. Im really tired of ignorant players refusing to take a self-heal. monks do not exist to heal every scrap of damage you take, monks are around to remove, conditions, hexes and heal any damage a self heal cant. monks weren't meant to have to work 7 times as hard as every other profession, and if people played the way the game was intended they wouldn't have to.
Shuuda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
Quote:
It's far from that black and white sorry and I have every right to say or express my opinion.|
Snow Bunny, one way not to get a bad sin is to ask for a build ping. If they ping Flashing Blades, run. Run fast. If they ping a build with no self heal, bye-bye. You wouldn't take a warrior that has a build that doesn't have the basics(self-heal, adren-recharge/IAS, WY), so why take a sin without crit skills, a self-heal(Feigned, Mystic Regen), or a get-out-of-Dodge skill(dash, -sigh- shadow step if you have to)? Learn to recognize a good sin like you would a monk, warrior, or ele, and you will be surprised at how much they help out.
What's so bad about Flashing blades in PvE? It's one of the assassin elites worth using in PvE, second to Moebius strike. And about Naruto, if I wanted anime with a ninja in it, I'd just watch Flame of Recca (His Ninja outfit is cooler)
SotiCoto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuuda
And about Naruto, if I wanted anime with a ninja in it, I'd just watch Flame of Recca (His Ninja outfit is cooler)
Hattori Hanzo, Samurai Shodown style, rapes all other ninjas hands down.
GW nub-sins play too much like Galford (i.e. A/R "GO POPPY!") and not enough like Hanzo.
haggus71
I mentioned Flashing Blades because, for every person with it that knows how to play a sin, there are a hundred that get it and say, "Look at me! Ima tank =D". It's not the elite that's bad. Unfortunately, it's just been a good indicator of fail. Moebius Strike can be bad, as well, but because of its location, by the time a sin gets there, they tend to know what they're doing.
fireflyry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
|
Who are you to tell me not to.
Firstly I said it was situational, secondly I have two level 20 monks which I have used for quite a few hundred hours each and regardless I have friends and Guildies who have only EVER played the monk class since beta and agree with what I say and play in exactly the fashion I described.
I trust their experience and opinion over yours sorry.I've seen what it can do to a team and your the one coming across as ignorant.
It's a monks role to heal, remove conditions, etc, etc and as I stated previously in condition heavy or large spike areas I agree with the need for self-heals or mitigation but to blindly always take it in a build every single time because it's an unspoken rule is ridiculous and inefficient.
For example on a melee heavy zone with good monk back-up I often drop a self-heal for Blinding Powder which results in the frontline taking far less damage.When used in a Promise build it's spammable.
Yes...monks hate that...*rolls eyes*
Thing is on a well structured team with good players a self-heal is often not needed.Fact.
As stated it's dependant on many different variables and while I'm open to different ways of playing you seem to struggle with this concept and seem to think we should all play exactly how you do.
I'm far from that close-minded as I've seen the effectiveness of a Sin without self-heals thanks to a great monk.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Issac
I agree, shadow step doesn't help in pve at all. But in pvp, depending on the situation its not to bad.
Assassin's Promise builds with Death's Charge, Shadow Fang or Dark Prison disagree with you.
Azrayel
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireflyry
It's far from that black and white sorry and I have every right to say or express my opinion.
Who are you to tell me not to. Firstly I said it was situational, secondly I have two level 20 monks which I have used for quite a few hundred hours each and regardless I have friends and Guildies who have only EVER played the monk class since beta and agree with what I say and play in exactly the fashion I described. I trust their experience and opinion over yours sorry.I've seen what it can do to a team and your the one coming across as ignorant. It's a monks role to heal, remove conditions, etc, etc and as I stated previously in condition heavy or large spike areas I agree with the need for self-heals or mitigation but to blindly always take it in a build every single time because it's an unspoken rule is ridiculous and inefficient. For example on a melee heavy zone with good monk back-up I often drop a self-heal for Blinding Powder which results in the frontline taking far less damage.When used in a Promise build it's spammable. Yes...monks hate that...*rolls eyes* Thing is on a well structured team with good players a self-heal is often not needed.Fact. As stated it's dependant on many different variables and while I'm open to different ways of playing you seem to struggle with this concept and seem to think we should all play exactly how you do. I'm far from that close-minded as I've seen the effectiveness of a Sin without self-heals thanks to a great monk. Assassin's Promise builds with Death's Charge, Shadow Fang or Dark Prison disagree with you. Not to pick apart how you use builds, but I would rather put a self heal in the place of any shadow step for PvE. Not only does it help the monk but it helps the group as well, since they can benefit from the monk healing as well. If you play mostly with guildies and they are o.k with no self heal then I see no problem with it. I take great pride in playing my sin. Therefore I hate it when I see her face down waiting for someone to rez her. Even if I'm playing with my guild ,who are very good players, I don't leave it up to the monk to heal me just bcause I want to cause more damage. As far as I'm concerned I am responsible for when I need a heal and if the monk does it for me then thats just a plus.
fireflyry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrayel
|
I'm being build specific in my comment.Most Promise builds rely on Shadow Stepping to assist in getting to the chosen target quickly and easily (no body blocking) and to get to the next target just as quick.
Quote:
As far as I'm concerned I am responsible for when I need a heal and if the monk does it for me then thats just a plus.
I like that point and well said.
The point for me is many times I can take a mob out faster or negate their damage in other ways, ways which are more beneficial to the team as a whole than a self-heal.While I really like what you just said there I also keep in mind two things:
First it's a team game and I place more importance on playing as part of one as opposed to default self-sufficiency regardless.That could be taken any way you want and is defined by the team dynamic and goal.Many would say a self-heal is a huge part in helping the team as a whole and I far from disagree.
I'm merely stating this is not always the case and self-heals should'nt be considered mandatory.
The mentality that self-heals are always the best way to keep your health up and ease pressure on your monks baffles me it's simply untrue, especially if we are talking class specific Sin heals.
Secondly self heals are not the only way to mitigate damage and a lot of the time taking out a mob sooner or mitigating through skill use can be just as, if not more effective than carrying a self-heal.
I keep that in mind and have found it a far more effective way to play, especially after playing a lot of missions where my self-heal was'nt even touched to the point where I would be worried if I saw a pinged build with a self-heal in certain areas of Guild Wars where DPS or spreading conditions are more of a priority and spike damage is rare.
Then again I'm not of the "just in case" play style.
Each to their own though.
The point for me is many times I can take a mob out faster or negate their damage in other ways, ways which are more beneficial to the team as a whole than a self-heal.While I really like what you just said there I also keep in mind two things:
First it's a team game and I place more importance on playing as part of one as opposed to default self-sufficiency regardless.That could be taken any way you want and is defined by the team dynamic and goal.Many would say a self-heal is a huge part in helping the team as a whole and I far from disagree.
I'm merely stating this is not always the case and self-heals should'nt be considered mandatory.
The mentality that self-heals are always the best way to keep your health up and ease pressure on your monks baffles me it's simply untrue, especially if we are talking class specific Sin heals.
Secondly self heals are not the only way to mitigate damage and a lot of the time taking out a mob sooner or mitigating through skill use can be just as, if not more effective than carrying a self-heal.
I keep that in mind and have found it a far more effective way to play, especially after playing a lot of missions where my self-heal was'nt even touched to the point where I would be worried if I saw a pinged build with a self-heal in certain areas of Guild Wars where DPS or spreading conditions are more of a priority and spike damage is rare.
Then again I'm not of the "just in case" play style.
Each to their own though.
Azrayel
yes, death's charge is a heal, whether it is a good one is debatable. That's why I love guild wars what works for me might not work for you but they are effective non the less.
Back on topic. If Assassin's were the worse class, why are so many people defending. As I said before, I hate playing monk cause I can't that dosen't make them a bad class or make me not want to team with them. Hell, I'd team up with a group of 7 Ritualists for a mission, as long as we had a good chat going and enjoing the game.
Back on topic. If Assassin's were the worse class, why are so many people defending. As I said before, I hate playing monk cause I can't that dosen't make them a bad class or make me not want to team with them. Hell, I'd team up with a group of 7 Ritualists for a mission, as long as we had a good chat going and enjoing the game.
matti90
To really answer the question at hand and not talk alot of crap:
Quote:
Quote:
Mekkakat
Quote:
Originally Posted by haggus71
I mentioned Flashing Blades because, for every person with it that knows how to play a sin, there are a hundred that get it and say, "Look at me! Ima tank =D". It's not the elite that's bad. Unfortunately, it's just been a good indicator of fail. Moebius Strike can be bad, as well, but because of its location, by the time a sin gets there, they tend to know what they're doing.
none of this makes sense. FB is a great elite for pve only second to Moebius. do you even play a sin?
most skills sins get synergize with stances.. because they dont have many stances (worth using) other than dash, FB, and maybe shadow of haste (if you're into that) why do you think sins dont have a pvp IAS skill? its called balance, and if you haven't noticed, we need DEFENSE, not more attacks. FB is a perfectly well chosen skill for pve.
bad players make bad team mates. i dont care if you have any class with the most leet builds. if you suck, you suck. gg.
none of this makes sense. FB is a great elite for pve only second to Moebius. do you even play a sin?
most skills sins get synergize with stances.. because they dont have many stances (worth using) other than dash, FB, and maybe shadow of haste (if you're into that) why do you think sins dont have a pvp IAS skill? its called balance, and if you haven't noticed, we need DEFENSE, not more attacks. FB is a perfectly well chosen skill for pve.
bad players make bad team mates. i dont care if you have any class with the most leet builds. if you suck, you suck. gg.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
Quote: Originally Posted by Mekkakat because they dont have many stances (worth using) other than dash, FB, and maybe shadow of haste (if you're into that) I find myself hard pressed choosing stances! I guess I'm into that. I LOVE Dash, I like Shadow of Haste and now I like Shadow Walk as well. Sins got good stances. Recognize.
Quote:
why do you think sins dont have a pvp IAS skill? its called balance, and if you haven't noticed, we need DEFENSE, not more attacks...
Again, no. Sin do not get a PvP IAS because it would make them too damn powerful. Which is why you'd strive to get just this; many players 2nd into /R or /W just to get the IAS.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mekkakat
bad players make bad team mates. i dont care if you have any class with the most leet builds. if you suck, you suck. gg.
Well said...
Mekkakat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Erm, what?
I find myself hard pressed choosing stances! I guess I'm into that. I LOVE Dash, I like Shadow of Haste and now I like Shadow Walk as well. Sins got good stances. Recognize. Again, no. Sin do not get a PvP IAS because it would make them too damn powerful. Which is why you'd strive to get just this; many players 2nd into /R or /W just to get the IAS. Well said... i meant, sins have many moves that synergize well with stances, meaning they can use long lasting, precast enchantments/skills (critical eye, crit def, crit agi, way of perfection.. whatever you're into) while being able to use the few stances they have, without canceling them by accident. for instance, FB, or Way of the Assassin. thats all.
Abedeus
Why this thread isn't closed yet? There is NO bad class ;d
Paragons - I always have at least 1 para hero in my team. Support + shouts/chants + huge dmg + 80 AL = FTW Mesmers - As a Mesmer I got almost to end of NF, I finished GWEN... And it's kickbutt profession. You just need to know how to use it. Same why some people think that necros are bad, because they don't know how to use them. Dervishes - Rotflmao. And that's it. Assassins - Great in PvE (massive damage AoE thanks to Moebius + Death Blossom or a focused damage for a boss/harder targets), even better in PvP. Just because some stupid people in PuGs don't take some professions that doesn't mean those profs are bad. apatheticyeh
Wow, i cant stand the people here saying Rits suck. I at first didnt like them, but after playing a healer/support rit, i saw how good they actually were. Maybe if you took the time to learn builds youd see. Dont bother trying to convince the impossible people here that a class is good, they always view themselves as right, and everyone else wrong. And really, if you say a class sucks, its probably you that sucks with it and rage quits in RA... ALL CLASSES HAVE COUNTERS AND ADVANTAGES STFU.
fireflyry
Your over generalizing and trying to take the moral high ground while telling people not to discuss a valid topic that has had 8 pages of interesting posts and points.
The obvious mantra "A class is only as good as the player" has been regurgitated to death and had no constructive merit.It's simple logic some classes are weaker than others in PvE regardless of who's playing it. Thats the point of the discussion, not class bashing due to inexperience or self righteous egotism. Capiche'
Bobby2
Is there also a thread
"Is this (Assassin) the best class in the game?"
Yanman.be
Yeah but it got locked!
Bobby2
I think such a discussion would be far more productive. Could u direct me to it? Search did not work out for me
Yanman.be
It doesn't exsist.
Coloneh
I really think this thread could produce some good discussion if we got over a few things:
1. No mindless class bashing. "ritualists suck" is not an argument. 2. No mindless class praising. "mesmers rule" in not an argument. 3. Provide real reasons. "I can beat PvE with my paragon" is not a reason why paragons are a good class. a team of seven could beat everything without you. 4. This is not PvP discussion. "...but mesmers can shutdown the enemy monk in GvG" has no place here. 5. This in not a 1v1 discussion. "my assassin can beat anything" has no place anywhere.
Age Of The Poon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
lol sorry Bobby 2, i really need to learn how to type lol...
i meant, sins have many moves that synergize well with stances, meaning they can use long lasting, precast enchantments/skills (critical eye, crit def, crit agi, way of perfection.. whatever you're into) while being able to use the few stances they have, without canceling them by accident. for instance, FB, or Way of the Assassin. thats all. sins aren't supposed to tank they lets tanks go in and slaughter the stragglers and get out i can play a sin w/o ANY heals just fine in RA's and i can play one w/ heals i actully like mine without heals cause all i do is go for the monk if i get the kill i'm good. critical eye + critical defenses is a plain waste i think...oh well i'll kill your monk while you're casting those enchs 
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age Of The Poon
sins aren't supposed to tank they lets tanks go in and slaughter the stragglers and get out i can play a sin w/o ANY heals just fine in RA's and i can play one w/ heals i actully like mine without heals cause all i do is go for the monk if i get the kill i'm good. critical eye + critical defenses is a plain waste i think...oh well i'll kill your monk while you're casting those enchs
Critical Eye is skill, no casting time there. I think CE is pretty good... just never worth a slot in my builds
Sir Pandra Pierva
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSephir
Yup. I decided to refresh my old Temple Strike build today and have some fun in RA.
Helpless monks, eles, necros- priceless ;d Can you PM me the build? I need to find a good temple strike build. Also on topic sins are really good when not blinded or locked down. but thay pretty much goes for any class they are good if not locked down. I have just noticed it more with sin than the other classesm
Musashi Kataro
Though I like the Assassin. My first char at lvl20 and I'm determined to get him through Factions. I just don't think the class lends well to a player's inexperience.
With me I feel encourage to go into a battle and act like a tank for most of the time, because a lot of the skills are melee based. Even when I do dart in and out to recover, it doesn't seem like I can get away or decent enough cover if there is a high-level caster/projectile based enemy. Though on the other hand the Assassin's flaws are fairly obvious and after a while most players can learn to base their builds and strategy around that.
DudeManOzzy
It's a class that requires intelligence to use, unlike when someone picks it just because it's cool, and it is, i'm not denying the coolness of a guy running round knifing people, but you have to be pretty good at tactics, unlike in some classes, where you've just got to run in and hack *coughwarriorcough*, seems to me, to many little kids who think the guy with the dagger looks cool are charging in, only to realise the armour is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard, and get mullered.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeManOzzy
where you've just got to run in and hack *coughwarriorcough*
Any idiot can run his finger down 1234567 and hope for a kill.
Not every idiot can always hit his Bull's Strike, or know when to Frenzy. It's harder to play a *good* warrior. |
