Unrealistic Difficulty!!!!
tmakinen
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
Being good at PvE doesn't mean you'll be good at all in PvP, but being good at PvP means you'll be relatively good in PvE.
Being good at PvE doesn't automatically make you any good in PvP, that's absolutely true.
Being good at PvP automatically makes you very good in the 'smashing face' aspect of PvE. It doesn't necessarily make you a great solo farmer (another aspect of PvE where some runs require a lot of very specific knowledge). It certainly doesn't make you a great power trader (another aspect of PvE). It doesn't make you good at role playing (another aspect of PvE). It doesn't automatically make you a nice person (social skills, yet another aspect of PvE).
Also you're making the same mistake that many PvE'ers readily do - equating titles with skill, whereas the only thing they measure is the number of hours played. PvE titles except perhaps Guardian and to some extent Vanquisher do not require any skill at all, just mind-numbing repetition of simple tasks, and even the harder ones can be acquired just by throwing in enough time and consumables.
Being good at PvP automatically makes you very good in the 'smashing face' aspect of PvE. It doesn't necessarily make you a great solo farmer (another aspect of PvE where some runs require a lot of very specific knowledge). It certainly doesn't make you a great power trader (another aspect of PvE). It doesn't make you good at role playing (another aspect of PvE). It doesn't automatically make you a nice person (social skills, yet another aspect of PvE).
Also you're making the same mistake that many PvE'ers readily do - equating titles with skill, whereas the only thing they measure is the number of hours played. PvE titles except perhaps Guardian and to some extent Vanquisher do not require any skill at all, just mind-numbing repetition of simple tasks, and even the harder ones can be acquired just by throwing in enough time and consumables.
Sab
TabascoSauce: I'd keep arguing with you but you've taken the argument so far off course I don't even know where to start. See you in another PvP-related thread, I suppose.
YunSooJin
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Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn
Where did I mention your name in my post? Exactly, I didn't.
My beef is with a certain attitude where some PvP ers seem to have a holier than thou attitude.
Sab says as much as that PvP ers are better than PvE ers. And there are some who subscribe to this. Whether someone plays more PvE or PvP is irrelevant to me. I do not like the condescending comments that are being made from a PvP point of view that say that PvE ers are supposedly lesser people than PvP ers. If you do not subscribe to that point of view then my comments have nothing to do with you. That holier than thou attitude most likely derives from better knowledge of underlying mechanics in the game. You choose to see the simple truth as condescending talk - this simply obscures your own ability to see that the basis of what they are saying is true. No one is claiming PvP'ers are actually better human beings than PvE'ers - however if the claim was made that PvP'ers were generally better players than PvE'ers, that would absolutely be true. Whether you decide to take that simple truth as condescending or not is your problem, not a valid complaint at all.
My beef is with a certain attitude where some PvP ers seem to have a holier than thou attitude.
Sab says as much as that PvP ers are better than PvE ers. And there are some who subscribe to this. Whether someone plays more PvE or PvP is irrelevant to me. I do not like the condescending comments that are being made from a PvP point of view that say that PvE ers are supposedly lesser people than PvP ers. If you do not subscribe to that point of view then my comments have nothing to do with you. That holier than thou attitude most likely derives from better knowledge of underlying mechanics in the game. You choose to see the simple truth as condescending talk - this simply obscures your own ability to see that the basis of what they are saying is true. No one is claiming PvP'ers are actually better human beings than PvE'ers - however if the claim was made that PvP'ers were generally better players than PvE'ers, that would absolutely be true. Whether you decide to take that simple truth as condescending or not is your problem, not a valid complaint at all.
tmakinen
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Originally Posted by YunSooJin
if the claim was made that PvP'ers were generally better players than PvE'ers, that would absolutely be true
I feel that I'm starting to repeat myself here, but that statement would only be true for an extremely narrow definition of 'better player', something to the effect of 'good at killing stuff and staying alive'. That's a good measure for PvP activities but a lousy measure for PvE activities, where - as it has repeatedly been mentioned - more or less anything does the job, eventually.
I would tend to call a mature, helpful and generous person with about average 'smashing' skills a better PvE player than one with mad skillz who ragequits as soon as somebody makes a mistake, shouting 'OMG U N00B LRN2PLAY!!!'
I'm not saying that bad attitude is only prevalent among PvP players, it's just less detrimental to PvP objectives and thus maybe tolerated to a larger extent than on the PvE side.
I would tend to call a mature, helpful and generous person with about average 'smashing' skills a better PvE player than one with mad skillz who ragequits as soon as somebody makes a mistake, shouting 'OMG U N00B LRN2PLAY!!!'
I'm not saying that bad attitude is only prevalent among PvP players, it's just less detrimental to PvP objectives and thus maybe tolerated to a larger extent than on the PvE side.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by tmakinen
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In fact, PvP elitism is constantly referenced around here. At the time of this post, the top thread in Riverside is titled "Were once PvE and PvP intended to be mixed?" Read the second post - this is not a small problem. In fact, there is a significant image problem for PvP - which your side constantly reinforces and makes worse, and there seems to be no shame on the part of PvP players for this behavior.|
It certainly doesn't make you a great power trader (another aspect of PvE).
A specific aspect of Guild Wars itself that has no actual relation to success in the game. You can quite easily be terrible at playing PvE (it's Pv Environment, not Pv Market) while being a good trader. It's irrelevant, as has been brought up. Quote:
The argument has never changed for me, bro. Page 3, post 47.
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See, that leads me right into this yahoo:
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You choose to see the simple truth as condescending talk - this simply obscures your own ability to see that the basis of what they are saying is true.
For something to be true or false, a premise must be put forward. "You Suck", while technically a premise, is really an indefensible statement to make. The fact that YunSooJin endorses this behavior, without consequence from any of his peers, shows me that enough people in the PvP community believes in their right to ridicule anyone that it is now acceptable behavior. That is not a sign of a healthy community, and as mentioned countless other times in GURU may be a factor contributing to the poor uptake of players into long-time PvP'ers.
And lastly, two people have not read this thread, and have posted something like this:
(about attitude)
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And lastly, two people have not read this thread, and have posted something like this:
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Now you're being disingenious. PvE is more than just doing missions or going outside a city and hitting monsters. 'Success in the game', who are you to tell others what constitutes success on the PvE side? If my measure of success in the game is having a storage full of ecto/rare minis/semi-unique items, what does it matter how good I am at flailing with a pointy stick in my hand? If my measure of success is to re-enact Monty Python's Holy Grail in GW, what does it matter how many rabbits get killed in the production? There are well-defined objectives in PvP but not so on the PvE side. You can choose to do missions and quests, you can choose not to. Some people are perfectly happy staying indefinitely in the tutorial of the first campaign! The campaigns and related quests are just a diversion, not the entire point of PvE.|
Again, if you complain about NM PvE, post your build. So we can rip it apart and explain why you're not doing well.
Um, actually I do just fine. I'm done with NM, and am waiting for HM to see what that is about - I have already beat ye olde great destroyer. If you personally really want to see my builds, maybe I'll make a new thread of all my hero setups to help other players, but the first line in that would be to say "I am posting these builds for the convenience of every player, but I have every skill in this game, so the most important thing you can take from this post is go capture these skills, and what the heck all the rest of them too." Thanks! TabascoSauce
Cebe
So, so far from this thread we've established PvEers don't like being accused of needing to "lrn2play", from PvP players who, as far as PvEers are concerned, are just egotistical know-it-alls. PvPers on the other hand don't like to be thought of by people "lower" than them as players with an ego larger than Jeremy Clarkson. Fair summation of the last few pages?
Originally Posted by Avarre
Too many bad vibes in this thread. Can't we all just get along? Quote: |
This thread can only go downhill... /agree
(about attitude)
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Originally Posted by Avarre
No, that's an aspect of any part of the game, and again has no specific correlation to PvE of the game itself. You can be superb at PvE with no social skills. Again, this is entirely irrelevant to the discussion.
For the last time, PvE is more than just killing stuff. If I'm doing a mission with somebody else, I will always take a nice person with average skills over another with mad skillz and an attitude problem because on the PvE side the skill is entirely irrelevant beyond a certain (fairly low) level. Both the nice person and the snotty person get a passing grade on the smashing part, but the snotty person fails on other accounts. Ergo, the nice person is a better player in that case.
Yes, you can be superbly good at killing things in PvE. That doesn't necessarily make you a good player for several definitions of good. Stop measuring PvE with a PvP yardstick.
Yes, you can be superbly good at killing things in PvE. That doesn't necessarily make you a good player for several definitions of good. Stop measuring PvE with a PvP yardstick.
Avarre
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Now you're being disingenious. PvE is more than just doing missions or going outside a city and hitting monsters. 'Success in the game', who are you to tell others what constitutes success on the PvE side? If my measure of success in the game is having a storage full of ecto/rare minis/semi-unique items, what does it matter how good I am at flailing with a pointy stick in my hand?
Quote: For the last time, PvE is more than just killing stuff. If I'm doing a mission with somebody else, I will always take a nice person with average skills over another with mad skillz and an attitude problem because on the PvE side the skill is entirely irrelevant beyond a certain (fairly low) level. Both the nice person and the snotty person get a passing grade on the smashing part, but the snotty person fails on other accounts. Ergo, the nice person is a better player in that case. Unless succeeding at the game has suddenly been equated to 'pleasing tmakinen', I don't see how any of that matters. I'd rather take a player who is good at the game. The fact that you mention skill and attitude separately in your post shows that they aren't connected in any way. PvE and attitude have no more connection than PvP and attitude. Trying to prove that because a PvPer may have a bad attitude, they are therefore bad at PvP, is what tends to be called a 'total logical disconnect'.
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I'll repost the page 11 material including the post he replies to for context, and the immediate post after, because I think it illustrates how the OP feels about his treatment at the point of his apparent departure from this thread.
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Personally if you want to offer useless comments such as 'you're doing it wrong' at least offer some reasons why you feel this. Considering you're not playing WITH the OP I dount you know why he's having issues.
Many of you assume he just sucks, well I hate to tell you but everyone that plays does so differently. Thus, some people will find different areas harder or easier than others. Casual players that end up getting their ass kicked end up frutsrated and angry, thus tada this type of thread. Instead of trying to help said person too many of you offer no constructive critism; just blantant 'you suck' comments that do nothing but piss people off more.
That being said, wsper me in game some time Nw, I'll help you on any dungeon I have open.
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Originally Posted by nw5221
Thanks for the productive comments & positive support. One thing I noticed was the power-stones in the EON outpost. That has seemed to help. I added you to my friends list & I appreciate the offer of help!
Yeah, he sure seemed to like that ridicule, and not the hand of friendship.  What am I thinking?Quote:
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