Make all grind-based titles account based.

enough of the blasphemy

this man wins

/signed.

So I guess you didn't get the Vanguard Patrol blessing even once? Getting a new armor set isn't a vital aspect of gameplay. What content is unavailable w/o grind?


Umm...the Kurzick/Luxon titles are linked to your guild's faction, which is shared throughout your account anyway. So it makes sense for your toons to be able to all display your achievements in your faction. I've never understood why Balthazar faction is shared between toon but since I haven't gotten bored enough with PvE to PvP regularly it doesn't concern me.

In most cases it is grind. I know some people who got it w/o even knowing it existed but not many. I have r1 on my Mesmer and grinded mercilessly on Istan and now I'm going to get r2 and r3 by killing Jade Brotherhood in HM. Getting Legendary Survivor just by playing the game is just too risky. Lag, noobs, and jerks who won't skip cut scenes when minions are rampaging can kill you. Heck...I heard that the last cut scene in Vizunah Square where Shiro "kills" you counts as a death. So getting LS is like 90% grind and 10% luck.

I don't know how you came to conclusion that I didn't get EV blessing even once, probably the same way you realized that survivor is grind-based title.
Next thing I know, I'll wake up in the morning and Explorer or/and Protector will be grind-based titles... or at least people will say so.
Um, it's in my post that you quoted. Read it again.
So? Why can't they be character based? Your new D won't have it because *dun dun dunnn* he didn't earn it, right? You want r5 friend of luxons/kurzicks? Earn it yourself, right?

No, it's not. You can even get max rank of friend of x on a character that didn't get any factions. Blasphemy!
The truth is, survivor doesn't require grind at all. It requires you to get enough exp without dying. So, unless 'grind' changed from 'boring, repeatve action that does not require any skill but time and isn't challenging at all' to something else then no, survival isn't grindable

............................................______ __
....................................,.-‘”...................``~.,
.............................,.-”...................................“-.,
.........................,/...............................................” :,
.....................,?........................... ...........................\,
.................../.................................................. .........,}
................./.................................................. ....,:`^`..}
.............../.................................................. .,:”........./
..............?.....__............................ .............:`.........../
............./__.(.....“~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_....”~,_........“~,_....................,:`. ......._/
..........{.._$;_......”=,_.......“-,_.......,.-~-,},.~”;/....}
...........((.....*~_.......”=-._......“;,,./`..../”............../
...,,,___.\`~,......“~.,....................`... ..}............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-”
............/.`~,......`-...............................\....../\
.............\`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....\,__
,,_..........}.>-._\...................................|........... ...`=~-,
.....`=~-,_\_......`\,.................................\
...................`=~-,,.\,...............................\
................................`:,,.............. .............`\..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_\........ ..._,-%.......`\
...................................,<`.._|_,-&``................`\

This is a circular argument. We both think we're right and so I doubt we're doing anything to change any minds. Let's just agree to disagree. k?

GREATEST IDEA EVER.

Maybe if this happened other people would have more time to pursue the titles that actually take some skill.

/Signed an uber number of times

well, just my opinion on the Account based titles (except the Luxon/Cantha faction).

PvP based like Fame, is based on what the player is doing, not the character.

The player can swap out a PvP char from one class to another. The player can fill in many types of roles using his characters. Its a title for the player, not the character.

I dont see PvP as achievements of the character since your character does not develop in the storyline. In fact PvP can be done without entering the storyline, therefore those are account based.

The PvE grind titles are part of your developing your character's storyline. You develop your character to become a survivor, to become a cartographer, to become a guardian, etc.

So, you can develop your character's storyline by making him for example Explorer but you can't by making him Mighty Gladiator?
Yeah, makes sense.
Oh, w8, it duznt make any goddamn sense.

Trying to justify something with storyline over mechanics = big, fat PHAIL

/signed.

At least for the titles like Wisdom and Treasure Hunter.
There's no particular skill involved in opening chests or identifying items, no different technique from character to character as it might be titles like protector or explorer.

So I don't see the need to keep Wisdom and Treasure Hunter character based.

Good idea.

(And I like the posts by BlackSephir, BTW... lots of good reasoning)

Isn't that exactly what you're suggesting? If not account based then have quest rewards high enough (or enough quests) for people to max titles without boring grind then you have a choice - do quests and get the title or grind and get the title, everyone's happy then.

Not everyone wants titles to pose in outposts for people to see how great they are - some want titles that actually improve the Pve aspect of the game and make it more fun. Take skill hunter - it's useful so that all elites are unlocked to use on heroes, but what is the point of capping a skill on a character that can't or won't use it? Surely as long as the player has capped all the elites then whether they've done it one one character or across 4 or 5 should be immaterial - the player themselves still earned it and did the work.

I notice one of the biggest complaints is that characters should only be able to display what they earn't - well thats bollox as the characters themselves have earned sod all - it's the person playing them thats done the work - the toon themselves would still be L1 in starter armour if not for the player. Anyway what difference does it make if someone wants to display a maxed LB title earned on a Ranger (or in most cases earned across the whole account) - the player themselves have still earned the title the same way a warrior in LA posing in his shiny new FoW armour might not have earned the ecto/shards on his warrior, but the player probably still earned them from using a 55 monk or drops across all characters.

If only pve characters existed in PvE, yes.

If there was a complete absence of PvP characters and PvP only accounts, i would agree with you.

But once you take into account those players, account based titles for pvp makes more sense.

With PvP as integrated into the design of the game, you must allow players the flexibility of rerolling.

/signed Even though it'll likely not happen

Preamble before the ramble
Can we not find some common ground or compromise
Maybe players could refuse titles or as has been suggested make them less boring and repetative that sounds good to me, hell I might even go for some if that was so.

Let me reply by saying how I view and play the game because its why I feel this way about the titles.

I love rpg style games and I have been role playing for years and years, never lost my love of it.

Now ok gw isnt a pure rpg but it has lots of rpg elements to make it close enough for me.
I can also accept the crossover between characters, common storage moving weapons between characters etc.
I play that in my head as if all my characters are in a common guild and share stuff, hey its role playing.

Some things the game doesnt share and some it shouldnt share.

Yes the player achieves everything and the "toon" is the puppet of the player, however if you follow that logic then you must follow it 100% not just enough to chieve the ends of making "grind titles" account based.

So
Character skills all shared not just unlocked
Elites shared ditto
Capaigns shared
Map exploration shared
Towns unlocked shared
and anything else you can imagine

Ranger tames a pet black moa ok every character that changes secondary to ranger has the black moa ok, well hey you say you achieved it so its on all your toons.

I understand that to some people its vital that once they max all the skills for one character they should be able to rinse and repeat for all characters without repeating the really boringly repetetive ones.


Its just that for me it removes some of the role playing aspect so I am against it.
I cannot believe that I am the only player in the entire game that doesnt to some level role play the character and play each character slightly differently.
Its the only way "for me" to not become bored with a game.

Lets just take one title drunkenness.
I would like to have differences between my characters and I was intending just for fun to take the drunken title for my ritualist and have stored large amounts of alcohol ready for that.
I decided that ritualists deal with spirits all the time and need to drink, the blindfold headgear is to survive the headaches that come from the drinking.
Thats a role playing decision.

I dont want all my characters to have the title, yes I know I dont have to display it but I know its there.
So to get what you want you force everyone to have it too.
Suppose later I decide on the same title for another character I cannot go for it because I already have it, that problem will happen for all the tiles made account based.

Secondly will there not be an effect on the price of alcohol, not so much need for it if the title goes account based, same for any other resources needed in this way.

apologies for the length of post I will try to make them shorter in fiture

And by making these titles account based, what exactly are we taking away from the people who only want them for one character ?

The only thing that the grind titles show is that one person has had more time playing the game that another.

And how will it bring the game down ?
Even if there are people who would want stupid changes made later because this came through, why does this mean that this suggestion is a bad one ?

True, but some titles do directly effect our gameplay.
Lets discuss our thoughts on this in another thread please.

Can you then tell me why Lucky and Unlucky are account based ?

Unless there is something I'm missing, they are only earned by things in PvE.
It does nothing, so why not ?
Survivor is one of the titles I classed as failable, meaning its not one I'm asking to be changed here. But even if it was, what iss the harm in it being displayed on a different character ?
Again, not one of the titles I'm asking to be changed. And again I'm not seeing any harm in doing so.
Why is the answer no ?

I can see no harm in these examples here, because they do nothing except show that you have some experience on other characters.

A better example might of been a low level character using a Sunspear skill. But that can already be done with people using the Factions PvE only skills, and I still haven't seen anyone attempt to show that this would cause any harm. So since there is no harm, why should we be against it ?

And here is another question. Lets say I decide I want the Wisdom title on one character. So I go and acquire all the unidentified golds with different characters, and only ID them with the character getting the title. Why should only that character be able to display them when the other characters did the majority of the work ?

This would be acceptable if the quest rewards were fully retroactive for the players that had already completed the quests.

And this thread is asking for ANET to change some of the things that aren't shared to being shared.
There is a clear difference between grind titles where your doing the same thing over and over, and task titles where each character does each task once. Currently while I can justify making the grind titles account based, my reasoning doesn't work for the task based things. So that is where I stop.

So why should we go further than what can be justified ?

If your role-playing suspension of disbelief can't handle the drunkard title becoming account based, how does it handle the lucky and unlucky titles now ?

That doesn't stop you performing the tasks again, it just makes it a bit harder to keep track. But if your roleplaying you probably would want to keep your drunk character drunk all the time, even after obtaining the title otherwise he would be a sobered up drunk, not a real one.
Maybe the price of alcohol from events will go down unless ANET reduces the drop rate, but the merchant stuff should have its price stay constant.
No need to apologies for a long post with content, it shows your thinking about it.

If you people think GW has grind you have no idea.

That is all.

Woot a new char based => account based titles thread. I'd like to play multiple primary profs without compromising title acquisition.

This thread is about account based titles.

Role-play your heart out, titles becoming account based does not restrict you from pretending.

Using your awesome role-playing capacity, you can make it happen. You can still earn 1337500 exp without dying even if LS is unlocked on your account, you can still cap every elite skill even if ESH is unlocked on your account,..., you can still do x even if title y is already unlocked on your account.

The arguments for opposing the change look weak to me.

Oh yeah, /SIGNED

I am an adult, and as such, have to work, look after a house, pay bills and do all manner of other things. Therefore, i have limited time.

I'm not sure what kinda point you're trying to make, in fact the wording of your post is fairly confusing.

I work hard in GW, my main char spends the time to get titles and do all the missions. My other nine characters also work through all the missions, but adding the time to get titles on top for each becomes a rather tiresome and overly time consuming process. With all but 2 characters characters i have already completed Factions and Nightfall and done Prophecies with my main.

Yes, i could decide that maybe i should not use 10 chars (one for each profession), but i like to try them all out. If you note, i did limit the title choices to those such as EoTN and SS/LB. Mainly as these are required to obtain access to certain areas of the game/NPC's, whereas most others are not.
My main has the Protector titles for all three chapters, but i'm not asking them to be account-based. They represent time and skill in the game, but are not required to gain access to NPC's.

I dont really care about having a max title to show on any char, but having to grind to rank 5 for ten chars with 4 groups is a bit much...i mean, 40 times, come on!!!

I do not resent those that play all hours of the day and night, that is their call and they get many other rewards for doing so. Even if i could, i wouldnt, as it'd be unhealthy to do so.

You really shouldnt make assumptions about people and i was solely expressing my support, for my reasons. You may not agree, that is fine, but that is no excuse to make judgements about my character.

Peace,

Ferret

So Guild Wars shouldn't be improved because there are some games that are worse ?

How does that make any sense ?

You have to get to R8 Sunspear in Nightfall to even progress in storyline
You fail at internets.
Good day.

It seems to me that one of the reasons people oppose this is that they seem to think this article is about grinding less for the same titles....
I can't see how people who enjoy grind would be opposed to this idea... i mean if you grind on more than one character then, under the current system, you wouldn't be able to show off your uber surplus of time, whereas with an account based system you would be able to show off all the grind from all your characters, given that the requirements for maxing the title would be raised.

On the note of "roleplaying" which seems alien and irrational to me, my first thoughts were that, the roleplaying experience would be improved with account based titles because you get to share your love with many characters, it wouldn't matter which character got smashed etc, who says your characters have to have static personalities!. But like i said lol... it is IMO a totally whacked/obsessive compulsive concept, and yet.. it still sound basis for argument oO.

I think we have given the powers in the game something to work with here, although we would be better to refine our views till we come up with something more or less cohesive to present to arenanet or they may well do nothing.

More than happy to go with a majority view on this one because I for one am now posting with more passion than logic and soon may be posting incoherent drivel "if I havn't already reached that point"

Would it be fair to say that

1/ we would like all the titles to be achievable in difficult but interesting ways
if not possible then

2/ remove some of the repetition by making those that are very depressingly boring and repetetive account based so you only have to do them once.
or

3/ Something else should be done as the present situation doesn't please anyone very much.

4/ Some titles however grinding must be considered player based because by their nature they are notable achievements.

If this isnt reasonable I think some of you should come up with a similar post that we can all "hopefully" aggree to as a compromise solution to an otherwise hopeless argument.

/half signed,
Only should be accoutn base for extreme grind titles, ~500 hours of work, only two titles fits that requirement that isn't accoutn already, wisdom and teasure hunter, all other dont' take that much time, and are "storyline" titles.

Hey jackhole.

Check this.

It's Rank 7, which is easily acquired.

Nice try though.

This is another version of an endless debate.

And guess what?

Too bad. It's not going to happen.

It'd be nice if your arguments actually added up, but they don't. And you have the burden of proof to push for this.

Hey genius.
Chech this.
My Canthan N moved to Elona, did all the quests available before she get the And a Hero Shall Lead Them quest and still didn't have enough points to R7.
Any other way besides grind to get to general? No.

Oh, btw people, lil' bunny has an announcement to make.
HEARD THAT?? It's official now, grinding is easy! Thank you lil' bunny, without you everyone would still think that grinding is hard and challenging thing!

Fail less plz, if you can.

The scale from R7-R8 is rather steep, whereas the scale from r0-r7 is not really, considering the Land of Heroes mission should basically get you to r6 in one go, and getting from r6-7 is easily achievable through progression of the storyline and less so from grind.

And for your information, you don't need R7 if you're a foreign character. But nice work regardless.

I'll just ignore the 'lil bunny' euphemism, seeing as your information is incorrect.

But that's ok.




/fail

Maybe you're blind and didn't notice what I wrote.
Here, let me show it again so you'll understand.
This here means that I did sub-quests and still had to grind?

And what mr. Fail says?

Here, let me show you a thing from Wiki
Notice the important thing- What's this word I'm searching for... Starts with 'n', ends with 'b' and rhymes with 'noob'.
You do that often

And you can do it by doing quests...
Quests which are part of fleshing out the storyline.

The sunspear requirement creates a branching primary quest system, instead of a linear quest system.

And theres LOTS of quests that will fill the requirement.

As a matter of fact, they could have removed the rank requirement, and forced you instead to run around on quests of THEIR choice.

This is the same reason for the 10k Luxon/Kurzick faction wall.

You can choose how to go about, play PvP or play PvE to progress the story. Either way its to gain the trust of one side or another.

or they can remove the rank wall and force you on quests of their choice.


You see it as a grind, when really its designed to spread out the content into your choice of direction. Which would you choose?

Your posts really do shake my belief in human intelligence and logic, but that aside


That update is close to a year old. Do you understand that it is irrelevant? Unconsequential?

I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your post, because it's poorly written and doesn't actually contribute to the discussion.

The fact remains; many characters across your account will have contributed to the faction titles, the hero title, and glad title, and champ title.

Only 1 will contribute to explorer/wisdom/etc, hence why it should remain that way.

And by the way Sephir -

noob doesn't "rhyme" with itself. It's the same word.

dumbass

I thought I just said it, I moved my N before from Cantha to Elona, did Sunspear quests and still had to grind with blessings.

Have you heard of past tense?
Of course. Go and hide.

Cool, only one thing- you forgot to mention WHY it should be this way.

Hahaha, I love your reading skills

Does killing stuff thats along the way while questing count as grinding? I didnt really have much of a problem getting enough SS rank with my canthan monk.

/signed

The simple fact of the matter is that a player who is spreading their time amongst multiple characters shouldn't be penalised or be disadvantaged over a player who is dedicating all their time to a single character.

For example, if I play 10 characters and identify 1000 gold items on each of them why should I be denied the maxed Wisdom title track because I didn't do it all with a single character. I've put in the same amount of effort as a player with a single character but won't have the title. The same could be said for Treasure Hunter, Skill Hunter.

I agree Survivor should be character specific (it has to be; it's linked to XP) and campaign specific titles like LightBringer and Sunspear but the player should be rewarded for their effort not the character the player has used to put in the effort.

If we are going to continue with character titles how about some new account level titles like Legionaire for X PVE characters on account at level 20. A Platoon title for characters at level 20 in a single campaign. I mean grinding multiple characters to level 20 should count for something, shouldn't it? How about Big Spender for X character slots purchased through the online store to make these characters? Or perhaps we should just follow the original suggestion.

The only qualms I have is that wisdom and treasure hunter titles are not account based, yet lucky and kurzick/luxon allegiance titles are (all give advantages in game). Why they have not changed this I do not know. MAKE TREASURE HUNTER AND WISDOM TITLES ACCOUNT BASED!.....pretty pls?

Tsk. Simple conversations can get out of hand so easily.

More civility, less circularity, please.

/signed a million times.

The PvP grinders get this feature, why don't we?

I'd go with 1 and 2, of your suggestions as it's the repetative boring stuff thats the problem - It's got to a point where I just can't face the minimum 70 required wurm runs to kill exactly the same creatures over exactly the same route every time to max out my R9 SS and R6 LB as getting them that far bored me to tears (yes I know there's other places to grind but then it'd take even longer and be just as boring).

Like you I enjoy RPG's and have played them for years (since the early 80's) but in all that time I've yet to play one that to make skills work better involved having to repeat the exact same actions in the exact same places 100+ times - yes you had to level up to improve things but the important and crucial difference is that the XP was gained from doing different things. I mean, how interesting would Dungeon's and Dragon's have been if the DM had you repeating the same small area 100+ times just to kill the same monsters so you could level up?

Anyway, I thought the idea of titles was to recognise skill not a high boredom threshold or ability to leech points (like Kurzrick where one person runs it and the other 7 just stand around chatting then talk to the NPC - yeah lots of skill required there).

The books in EOTN are a step in the right direction, but they should offer a higher reward to make them a viable alternative to grinding - maybe work out how long on average it'll take to do 20 dungeons and award the same number of points as would be gained by grinding for the same length of time, eg. If you can get 1k points an hour grinding and each dungeon takes an average of an hour to complete, then award each dungeon 1k points for completion - that then gives people the choice - either grind or quest in dungeons (I realise that that would mean it'd be possible to get extra Dwarf points, but then it evens out as a few dungeons take longer than a hour, and a few grind areas give more than 1k points an hour (outside olafstead is 4.5-6k points an hour - doubled this weekend if you have someone with the correct quest active)).

And yet a lvl 1 char on your account who's never been close to the door of a pvp arena can display pvp titles.

So you're keeping to the roleplay argument that when a character works towards titles, only that character gets to display the title? (imo 'working towards' is a bad phrase, grinding is more accurate for many titles)

Guess who controls the character(s)?

/notsigned, this would make too many titles not worth the effort, they are what mainly keep a lot of older players playing...

Interesting... Are you saying that those older players are only playing now to grind for those titles across several characters?

I'm more inclined to agree with the post below mine.

They're also what makes a lot of older players (like me) reluctant to play. I just don't feel as motivated since I know that no matter how hard I try on one character, it wont have any effect on my other 9 characters.

And that's why I decided to play only my elementalist exclusively. And that makes the game dull quickly. So many characters, stick to playing one for full benefits! Let's hope GW2 doesn't make the same mistake.

You didn't actually understand my argument there, but that's ok, you may quote me if you think it adds validity to your own post.

I'm honored, truth be told.

But, to entertain you, and perhaps enlighten you, I'll use a more pragmatic argument that will hopefully spur you to see my point.

There's no practical reason for grind-based titles to be account based. The only reason for Hero, Champ, and to a lesser extent, Glad's (I suppose for the 2nd two, not definite, but certainly for the first) it's to simply display the measure of skill , perhaps these days, experience of the player in question in an arena with team formation (Heroes Ascent)

The only reason for the faction title to be account based is perhaps initially because of the same reason for the hero title, regardless of what the faction titles ended up meaning to most knowledgeable players.

With this in mind, there's no real reason for grind-based titles to be account-based. Perhaps the EotN titles, simply because grinding even one to a high level I can imagine is a nightmare on one character, let alone several, and it's acceptable for it to be account-wide only for the lvl 3,4,5 accessability.

But there is no practical reason for another title to be account based. In the case of wisdom/treasure hunter, just do all your chests and golds on one character, and salvage with that character. It's not that hard.

There's no good reason for this to be done. The pvp titles purportedly had their use, but most pve ones don't.