Make all grind-based titles account based.

I find it very disturbing and worrying that people come in here asking for a generalisation of getting things done.
Each and every person I know has one character they get titles with and now here come the completely lazy people asking to make it account based.
If you can't cope with the fact that you'll be missing out with several characters then don't create so many?
I think that's the only real issue at hand.
It's incredible to see people reply with "Oh but I have 24 characters across 3 accounts and i can't be arsed to do everything over again."
It's easy isn't it.
Make less characters and get real...
The game is incredibly easy to get things done and still the whining continues.
I can only start to imagine how it will be for GW2.
Pathetic.

How the hell having 3 pve characters equals having 24 pve characters?
Idiotic and pathetic.

Wow. I can't believe this thread is still going.

I don't understand why the GWEN rep titles should be account based. I understand why the titles that are already account based are. It takes an ungodly amount of time and effort to achieve them and so they need to account based. But it hardly takes any effort of attain the SS/LB and GWEN rep titles. Until 2 weeks ago my Ranger was a Commander and had only done up to Venta Cemetary but by yesterday afternoon she was in RoT and a Castellan, well on her way to becoming a Spearmarshal btw. I rarely SS/LB farm and I only do it on my Necro, who I've chosen to heap most of the titles on. Normal gameplay should be enough to quickly advance in the ranks of the rep titles. Unless you don't want to do any quests or dungeons or even go into explorable areas. *shrug* Maybe some people play GWEN for the spectacular scenery or hours and hours of non-stop Polymock(Fire Imp, I choose you!).

Your stance/argument in this issue is that the benefits of the titles must be exclusive based on title rank of each character has achieved. By giving double standard means you simply make different treatment on the benefits themselves.

In this case:
Armor/PvE skills are not OK to be available for the people (in specific a character) who dont have the required rank.
Yet on the other hand Consumable items and crafted weapon is OK and acceptable by your standard.

So here you break your own stance/argument and make some exceptions for whatever you think it is appropriate. So at this point, Im expecting you to be consistent with your argument which means you should also enforce the exclusivity of consumable items and crafted weapons limited to the characters who have the required rank.

so people who have lives should have all the titles too?
zzz /notsigned

Because a new character means that the stuff we redo is made different because of us having a different class, and we only have to do it again once. But grinding up the points involves repeating the exact same task over and over.

Two weeks on one character and your not even maxed out, yet you try to use that as an argument. Lets say your meaning that your character is 1 point off rank 6 in all the titles. That is 39'999 out of 160'000 points, so just under 1/4 complete.

And thats only if you stick to one character, instead of changing between them because you got bored with one.

Because you seem to be saying that the highest stats should only be obtainable to the people who have either been playing for ages, or are able to grind at it a lot more.

Its not that the PvE skills are needed or not. Its that by requiring grinding, ANET is denying stat bonuses to people who don't repeat am arbitrarily chosen, non challenging task that they may not enjoy an arbitrary number of times ?

However you are also saying that to become better in a game played for enjoyment, people should go repeat some non-challenging task an arbitrary number of times to become stronger.

Where is the fun in that ?
I am not asking that. Even if the armor crafter or skill givers were only accessible after killing the end boss once I wouldn't complain. What I am complaining about is having to repeat a task several times to get the armor, when it doesn't make any sense to repeat it. For instance grinding up gold for an expensive armor makes sense because the crafter is being stingy.

But having to increase your reputation with a group by killing the same foes over and over, even after you just went and defeated their great enemy. How does that make any sense ?

So why exactly is the current system any better than having the titles account based ?

Why do we have 8 character slots per account if we aren't meant to make multiple characters ?

Personally I created a lot of my characters before the PvE only skills came out. So am I supposed to throw away those characters ?

Why should work performed across multiple characters only reward one of them ? (example: wisdom title)

Why are the lucky and unlucky titles account based when the other PvE grind titles are all character based ?

So you want the title account based, but you need perform certain achievements on each character to get any effect beyond a certain level ?

Sounds good to me.

Or....

seeing as grind titles aren't representative of skill in the slightest, you should get the ingame benefits but should be unable to display the title on all characters but the one who's grinded it all out. Seeing as the more vocal proponents of this idea have expressed how dreadfully terrible it is to do some work if you want a certain achievement/bonus, and it's not about displaying a title, right?

I'm sorry, but your rebuttals are terrible Bilateral, so...

I'll just put out a better idea.

That'd actually be really good since I think a lot of us just want the ability to get Norn/Asuran/Vanguard/Dwarven armours for characters without grinding out the faction for each one. Not being able to display it is no problem, all that matters is unlocking the armour crafter.

Yes, this should satisfy everyone.

In other words your not going to even attempt to give a rebuttal to the reasons I put in the OP, nor are you going to say why having character based grind titles is better than account based ?

If I missed one of your posts where you did that, feel free to point to it again.

<----Has provided a solution that despite being reasonable, won't be implemented because ANet doesn't implement anything in Sardelac/is working on GW2.

GG

/closethread

Nothing in PvE should ever be account based aside from storage (which is a necessary concession in an item collection game like this).

Well, there goes access to all skills unlocked on the account (for purchase and for heroes), Kurzick/Luxon faction, and hard mode unlocked on all level 20's when a chapter has been completed on an account. But, ya know, storage is fine; that can be shared.


Is there any method behind your madness, or are you just spouting unfounded beliefs? Because this just doesn't make any sense to me.

i think youve completely confused what im trying to say!

All im saying that it makes no difference needing rank 3 for consumables and rank 5 for armor and weapons because both ranks are extremely easy to reach.

I simply cannot understand the issue with needing rank 5 or 3 because you can reach those levels by just playing the game and all its aspects.

I then also said any rank above 5 which then impect pve only skills are optional. Your not being forced to increase them unless you feeel some need to have those pve only skills be max. But even then, rank 5-10 is also easy to reach now due to the update.

But im also saying I dont think its right that once you have bought those consumables, you can then trade or give them to low level characters.

You dont seem to understand my point on this.

Im trying to quite simply say that rank5 is easy to get and any ranks above 5 are optional, but also alot easier to get now due to the update.

In other words the reputation ranks are no longer a huge grind to achieve and are infact probably one of the easiest titles ingame to increase.

This is why we dont need them to be account based. Their too easy to increase and even their max level has been reduced from 200k to 160k.

Well im sorry, but IMO it still harks back to this idea of... what were you expecting when you made a new char?

Did you expect all the content to suddenly change and become random and original and new? I hope not! Ofcourse you were going to haave to redo the same stuff. I just cant understand how you can complain about re-plying the same content again and havng to reearn the same points, after you have knowingly made a new char.

Please try to grasp that rank 10 on the gwen reputation points is not going to take a staggering amount of effort. You get 20k for redoin all quests and about 30-40k for redoing all dungeons.

Do the maths and you can see reaching the 160k max isnt going to take much. Even casual players can manage that easily.

Your still trying to put some critical importance on the pve only skills in GWEN, when it doesnt exist. Using those pve only skills at max levels isnt going to suddenly make you a better player over night. Most of those pve only skills are very similar to existing skills, but just a bit sooped up.

That is all im saying. These pve only skills are not critical to anything, so why are you and others pushing yourself endlessly to max those ranks out?

Thats my point! You dont need to! There is no importance on being rank 10. The only importance is what your creating and you dont need to.

PLEASE listen here!

Getting rank 5 on all races is do-able by just playing all the game and its aspects. By the end you should have rank 5 on all of them. So ignoring that fact, you can look upon GWEN armor as being unlocked after you complete the game.

Your not being asked to reach rank 5 by doing anything other then completing all aspects of the game. If you dont like finishing all aspects of a game before you unlock stuff then why play an RPG or MMO?

If you needed rank 10 for armor, and you were then expected to earn those points after completing the game I woulld agree. But your not! All points and ranks needed for armor and weapons can be done by just completeing the game.

That is not the same a grind!!!!

Grind is something you do outsde of the normal storyline.

You say you dont mind if armor is endgame and you have to complete it first to get it. GWEN armor is NO different!!

/signed.

Character based skill related title tracks -> better to play one character -> people (i.e. me) play only one character -> less replay value -> boredom -> bad.

Two things wrong with this:

1) Of course you would have to go through (or experience) the same content with a new character. This is not the complaint. In fact, this is the main reason for creating a new character - to experience the same content from a "different angle." The point is: grinding the same content over and over solely to become more effective with that new, or even original, character. Key words are "more effective," referencing the PvE skills tied to the titles, not armor.

2) I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I made one character for each class (though I deleted my dervish), before PvE skills (except for the 3 measily ones that came with Nightfall). When I made them, I had no idea I would be faced with having to grind titles in order to become more effective. Again, key words: "more effective."

So, with that said, I am left to decide which character I must consider my "main" and go after those higher tiers with my limited time. Yes, yes, I don't have to, I've seen it all before. Do you remember my rebuttal to that? In case you don't, it's: I don't have to do anything, it's a game. No one has to even be able to complete it. None of the content is mandatory, period.

So where is the limit? Well, it used to be vanity, and only vanity. You want to grind, work, or trade till you had the money for higher end gear? Sure, but only if it had no advantage what-so-ever. That is how it used to be. When titles were introduced, it breathed new life into GW for those who wanted more to work toward - fine. Those of us who wanted to play the game with different characters and experience it in new ways were unaffected.

The limit has moved. It no longer is vanity. Some say it began with Factions, I disagree. Kurzick/Luxon faction did not affect how anyone played their game, it only erected a barrier long enough for those to do side quests until all of their characters on the entire account could complete the game. That wasn't grind, that was forced content. Not that I agree with it, hell all of Factions was kinda forced, but it wasn't grind and it had no bearing on how effective anyone's characters were.

It began with Nightfall, but it was 'acceptable.' The reason for this was by only playing through, not even finishing all the side quests, one could reach 80% efficiency (rank 8 of 10 SS) with the rebirth signet, which was the first PvE-only skill that could be used anywhere. The Lightbringer skills were too limited in their use to be considered important. However, this was still a huge problem - the beginning to skills linked to titles.

This is my biggest beef with how things are in GW, now.

On a lighter note, it's one of my only beefs - everything else about the game is nearly top-notch, IMO. I still enjoy it, and I won't stop playing anytime soon. So yeah, I'm no hater, and well within my rights to carry an opinion others may not agree with. Just throwin' it out there.


EDIT: So what does any of this have to do with this thread? Yeah, forgot that part I agree with this solution, as I see it as an acceptable compromise between what I want (skills unlinked to titles) and what others want (skills linked to character-based titles). This makes sure the 'work' (shudder) is still there, complete with reward, but it equally rewards those with one character and those with ten.

How about you stop lying?
R5 Ebon Vanguard. Just by playing the game and completing dungeons. Bwahahaha!

What's your reason for opposing the idea? How are you affected in any way? If you're affected by 'whining', close the browser/tab/window and don't come back.

Anyway why oppose pve titles becoming account based? What would you lose? I can only see gains for many.

The issue there is; was it ok that vanity was the main reason to play before titles were added?

I was always under the impression GWs was based around skill and not what you owned or looked like. So its a bit wrong to try and argue it was ok when vanity was the goal of all players, but now titles connected to skills is wrong.

Surely its worse to have this "I want to look better then you" mentality then to have a "I want to be more powerfull then you" mentality.

Neither are good, and neither matter, but still!

I understand its not nice to have to re-earn points to max skills out on each character, but as you have admitted.... its all choice. Do you need to have pve only skills maxed out on all your characters? Nope! Is armor and weapons in GWEN hard to unlock with rank 5? Nope!

Before titles are added and connected to pve only skills, I could have argued that FOW armor was unreasonable because it either required grind to farm the materials or being rich to buy them. What with the vanity thing and all. But I was realistic in knowing i didnt need FOW armor so I wasnt bothered.

Im sorry you dont believe me, but im not lying. I had rank 5 on all races withinn a week of playing. I started on 0 vangard and Asura and within a week I had rank 5 on both from simply doing quests, dungeons and taking bounties as I explored. And drawf and norn points are even easier to make.

Now this was before the 20k reward for all quests and the 30-40k reward for all dungeons. This means you can now easily top up any races that are harder to earn points for.

Again, believe me or not, but I did it! This is why I find all this winging about rank 5 pathetic. And I also find your arguement of "bewhahaha" a bit childish too.

There is nothing wrong with suggesting some titles be account based like wisdom and treasure hunting, becaause those titles have HUGE max levels. But GWEN titles max at 160k and those points really are VERY easy to attain.

I would even go as far as saying GWEN titles are some of the easiest ingame to max out.

Only solution I could agree with here, would be Snow's, but even that seems to much. I agree more with Fish that anything. It's not difficult to get these titles, and even a casual player should have little trouble getting them (even if not the max level, a sufficient level for it to be effective) simply through quests, dungeons, etc.

/signed

I really like this idea. I feel it will help the GW economy much until GW2 Releases.

No, it's not. If you feel it is, then that is where we differ entirely, and why we will never see eye to eye on this issue.


Well duh. Of course they're easy! That is the point - there is no skill involved with acquiring these titles anyway. People are being awarded by simply applying time, not skill. The mentality that one must 'work harder' (grind) rather than working smarter (skill) is something that managers at fast food restaurants try to instill in their employees. The most successful are those who find a way to be more efficient, rather than surviving off the sweat of their brow. Why is it so backasswards in GW, now?

Then if their easy to do, why complain?

Reading the whole post helps.

EDIT: Sorry, let me clarify a bit. Easy/Hard is a measure of skill. These titles are a measure of time - as in they require lots of time. How easy they are plays no part in the complaint of acquisition.

That's the whole definition of Grind titles.

You can kill once most of those creatures. Then... to get the title... you have to kill them...

MORE THAN ONCE.

Ok, maybe once was just luck, so 2 or 3 would be needed that was your skill and not just luck with PUGs... but... then again... 10 times... 100 times... 1000 times... that's not to test luck or skill... that's to waste time in a single spot making the same thing. Books fix that for Eye of the North.

But there are no Books in Factions or Nightfall.

Why should everything in PvE be character based ?

I'm going to ignore all your comments on armor because I view it as a vanity item, so I don't really care about grinding for it. It I did care about grinding for armor, I'd of complained about FoW armor.

I was expecting to repeat the content until I had completed it all once. Not repeat it all several times on each character ?

What about characters that were created before ANET introduced the benefits for grinding up titles ?

As you said earlier, that is 5-6 repeats per rep title. So 20 repeats for each character.
Yes, its like that for your first character. But then we have to do it all over again for our second character. Then our third character. Then our Forth. The the 5th character. It was while I was working on my 6th character (not counting deleted ones) that ANET added the Sunspear and factions PvE only skills.

So your okay with stat boosts that come from grinding, but only if they give small advantages ?
If so, where do you draw the line between what is an acceptable stat boost for grinding and what isn't ?
If its based on what is needed to complete the game, which players skill level do you base this off ?

I chose Guild Wars over other MMO's because once you had completed a task once. But grind based titles require to repeat an identical task several times even if you did it perfectly the first time. Personally I make new characters because I want to experience the task differently.

If you turn in the NM books you get enough points in it. Also if you turned in your books before ANET increased their reward get yourself a new book and you will be able to get it filled up for 100g per page (this only works once), then get more gold back for turning it in.

So where do you draw the line at where grind becomes acceptable ?
Why do you chose that position ?

Also could we stop confusing difficult tasks with once that are easy but require large time investments.

While I agree some aspects such as luxon/kuzack, wisdom and treasure hunting titles take a stupid amount of time to increase.

I wont agree that GWEN titles take a huge amount of time to max, especially rank 5 for armor and weapons.

I admittadly having maxed any out yet, but considering it has only taken about 3-4 weeks to reach rank 8 on nearly all of them... that isnt a huge amount of casual play.

Its only another 80k (give or take to max levels), so if I choose to exceed rank 8 then it shouldnt take that long just filling my handbook and dungeon book a few times.

Something I dont mind doing because i play GWs to re-do quests and dungeons and missions anyway.

So time isnt always a factor either.

End result = most of what you call grind isnt hard to achieve and doesnt take huge amounts of time.

Some does, but the majority such as gwen titles dont.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing this up, because I surely am not. This is about skills (which are affected entirely by the rank of these titles), not armor (which you can purchase at max level elsewhere) and weapons (which you can purchase at max level elsewhere). The change to the books is more than sufficient for allowing easy (and quick) access to armor and weapons after completing GW:EN. If it was a complaint of mine before, it isn't now. Keep to the issue - skills.

Yes, that is, especially for a 'reward' that is not vanity. If it took you that long to get a cool skinned weapon or armor, I'd say it was perfect. Or hell, it could take a year of grinding to get that cool skin and it wouldn't bother me.

Besides, it took you that long on... say it with me.... ONE CHARACTER. This is the whole point of this thread. Even with it taking that long, let people with multiple characters have that accomplishment (if you can call it that) on the whole account. So it won't take a month or more just grinding for rep titles times the number of characters they have.

Again, it isn't hard to achieve, but it does take a huge amount of time. But then again, that is subjective, isn't it? I could turn around and say that title that takes 2 years to get doesn't take huge amounts of time, and you know what: I'd be right. Why? Because it would be my opinion. I say these do take too long, you say they don't. Some agree with you, some agree with me.

Here's the real deal, freeked. If they made these titles account-wide, what harm exactly would it do to you, and those who agree with you? Now consider what good it would do for me and those who agree with me. What are the reasons to not making them account-based? "They're easy!" and "They don't need to be!" aren't reasons.

And still they keep on going...
The real issue at hand here is having to confront yourself with the fact that you cannot play each character as much as the other and if you can't make peace with that don't play them.
Sooner or later you'll have to really stand still for a second and watch what you are doing...
Reputation Points are so far NOT needed apart from 2 being Sunspear and Allegiance. Apart from that there is not a single soul in the entire game forcing you to do something just because you want to express your vanity over some items in the game that you really want to have.
If you can't understand that then you're just not in the right game.
Things in an RPG take time and they do so in every single one apart from this....
GW was the one game that tried to counter that by making things easily accessible to people.
In the end they too have to give in to the fact that it's the grinding that keeps the playerbase attached to their product.
What has been the entire idea behind the game in the very beginning is now starting to have it's effects on people who really cba to spend time over a game that they in the first place already play for over 2 years.
If you really don't understand that then I'm sorry but I can't help you out in any way.

So... you say:
I think i've said this before.. but anyway. Its the titles that govern the way you play.
not too many ppl would play heros ascent if it didn't give you that cool emote, and surely nobody would farm 10M faction if there was no "Saviour of the Kurzicks"

So.. you would turn down a perfectly good system just because Guild wars has updated/fixed/renewed its self on a number of occasions, and im quite sure its not the same game it started off as.
If a majority of people thought the same way as you, and that variety of characters should be discouraged from having multiple characters then I would accept this fact, and possibly move to a different game.. or i'd just pvp until gw2 comes out. But really most people seem to endorse the idea of Account based titles BECAUSE ITS A GOOD IDEA.

And LOL:
This was probably the reason people chose guildwars OVER other rpgs..
I think perhaps YOU are in the wrong game -_-'

Laziness was never an issue!!!
If you were a pro grinder wouldn't you want to show off your hard yards across all your characters and not be noobified the moment you play a diff class?

This isn't the matter of believing, it's just math. All EV quests and dungeons won't get you to R5, probably barely to R4. Unless, of course, you started playing at the double rep weekend or by 'exploring' areas you mean 'get in the zone, kill everything, repeat'.

If its not a matter of not believing me, even though you were the one used the word "lying" then stop suggesting I didnt manage to get rank 5 after completeing gwen on all races.

I did and thats the bottom line.

Im pretty sure you were the one had a complete go at me, when I assumed in an earlier post that this was about the pve only skills. Thats why I went back to talking about armor.

But why do you keep putting some importance on the pve only skills and their strength depending on ranks?

I'm not agreeing with you because I dont see their importance ingame. A character doesnt need them, and especially doesnt need them to be maxed out. When ingame is there an instance (other then LB gaze) when you need to use a pve only skills and need it to be maxed out?

Pve only skills are on the same level as mini pets and armor. You collect them, but they dont have any baring on whether you can complete or play the game. Their just nice little skills to use to spice things up.

This is why I dont agree with people who winge about the pve only skills being connected to ranks, because your all trying to put some importance on them that doesnt exist. I understand you might like to have all skills because I have elite skill hunter and I know the feeling.

But do you really need all your characters to have all the pve only skills, and to have them all be maxed out on every character?

In 2 years I think ive only used LB gaze, that one which finds hidden stuff and that acid one against destroyers. But I wouldnt say the last two were critical. You're askin

You talk about earning these points requires no skill to do, and thats why it frustrates you! Thats why you want them made account based, because its just boring and tedious to earn them.

What if Anet was to suddenly add a mechanism to the game, which made earning reputatation points alot harder and required "skill" to do! Would you stop complaining? or would you still complain you had to earn those points still?

But surely re-playing quests and dungeons 2 or 3 times and filling your books equates to skill?
Surely doing them in HM requires even more skill?

There are ways to earn these points which require skill, tallent and intelligence! If you dont like bounty hunting (and who does) then play GWEN in HM. I expect that will satisfy your need to earn these points with more of a challenge.

But the bottom line for me, is your asking for an easier way to max out pve only skills that arent critical or important to anything. Thats why I have an issue with this. If they were I could understand your view... but their not!

Then how do you explain the fact that I did manage to get rank 5 in all the rep titles without repeating anything ?

Are you ignoring the increased rewards from the books ?

OK, and you entirely avoided my question.

Seriously. It's as if I'm saying we can remove something bad, and you retort with "It's not that bad." Well, yeah, it's exactly that.

I prefer these skills (Sunspear and Kurzick/Luxon, as well) entirely unlinked to any titles, period. However, I am entirely willing to agree to this kind of compromise. I don't like this, either, but again - it's a compromise.

/sigh
Charr Invaders- 150 rep
Mano a Norn-o- 100
Service: Practice, Dummy- 100
Service: In Defense of the Eye- 250
Failure to Communicate- 100
The Smell of Titan in the Morning- 250
The Imploding Past- 150
The Assassin's Revenge- 50
Plan A- 100
Forbidden Fruit- 150
The Dawn of Rebellion- 250
Be Very, Very Quiet...- 100
Against the Charr- 1000
Falling Out- 100
Forgotten Relics- 100
What Must Be Done- 250
Warband of Brothers- 1500
The Hunting of the Charr- 250
Single Ugly Grawl Seeks Same for Mindless Destruction in Ascalon- 150


5100 from quests. All EV quests.

Now, dungeons
Catacombs of Kathandrax- 1500
Cathedral of Flames- 1500
Ooze Pit- I think it gives some but can't find anything about it on Wiki- let's assume 1500

4500 (or even 3000) + 5100 = 9600
26000 - 9600 = 16400
Hah, forgot about Rragar's Menagerie- 3000
That leaves 13400.
So, you got about 13400 for 'exploring' 3 explorable areas?
Nice, math is your friend and that's the bottom line.

I'm ignoring it because he didn't say anything about books- only quests and dungeons.

Great idea /sign

The only problem I see is Anet will increase the points required for this type of title so the net sum of time of getting these title will be the same

I thought it was implied by the fact that his first post in this thread started with:

But his point stands. After you complete all the content in normal mode once, you should have rank 5 in all the reputation titles. The worst you can say is that he forgot to mention the handbooks, not that he was lying about it.

And if you want to see the reputation rewards from each dungeon, just check the official wiki's pare on dungeons

I think some math proved that doing quests and dungeons won't get you to R5

I agree, I don't wanna take another set of countless hours grinding on my other characters which I have already done on one, so many hours could be used having a life instead of doing an easy thing over and over again, which proves nothing in terms of skill.

Only thing I have issue with is title grind on non primary characters.

I couldnt care less about armors in this game. 1k max armor is all anyone needs to get. everything else is optional...

Weapons from greens. big whoop... Collectors and crafters have near free equivalents.

Consumables. Problem... GRIND REQUIRED. but thankfully only on 1 character on your account. Just get what you want and use them on whatever character you wish.

Slavers, Glints challenge. Problem... Need to finish GWEN. To date you can still do the shortcut, but Anet is actively trying to learn how its done to remove that feature. So far they are clueless on the correct procedure and they think its not possible, and any change they could make to correct it so far is undesirable as it would either allow Primary quest to become repeatable OR completely inaccessible after original completion. which screws up Hard Mode.

Closed dungeons, Problem, Need to finish GWEN to bypass grind requirements. Again see above.

As to the HoM stuff, Its only important on primary characters. The others Who cares, and even then it will not matter for at least a year or more anyway.

Look if you stick to the primaries and don't take the shortcut you can do GWEN by yourself H/H in about 4 to 6 hours straight. NO dungeons at all. Just primary quests. Turn in the book at the end and your at about rank 5. Or close to it on Delver. So there you go you get something. and you get a green droks key for a green weapon. Big whop. Sell off your tapestries, and move on at that point if you dont want the grind. But being FORCED to do it. naw people will not go for that. They just will avoid it.

You can try to argue against me all you want. Within 2 weeks of playing GWEN I had rank 5 on all races. No hardcore playing all casual. I did all quests, dungeons, took alll bounties while exploring! This was before an easy 20k and 30k from the books.

And the fact you completely ignored the potential 20k+ points from the handbook and 30k from the dungeon book just shows your not even listening to me. Lets assume you can get rank 5 drawf and Norn after finishing and your having issues getting from rank 4 to 5 on Asura and Vanguard.

You should have a spare 20k and 30k points sitting there to trade in. That is more then enough.

And do not argue against me when I say you should atleast be rank 4 asura and vanguard by the time you finish! I dont even know why your trying to argue against me considering I did all this and its a fact!

Its like trying to argue the sun doesnt exist, while you sit in the garden with shades on. You can reply all you want saying im lying, but im not, and your obviously just being really lazey and not even trying to earn points.