I'm not a farmer by any means.
I pve as little as is conceivably possible.
It's simply that I'd prefer to play with as little margin of error as possible. If I can control the skillbars of the people I play with, I ensure that the margin of error is tuned into my own skill level.
And just for the thread title, the plural of "hero" is not "heros". It's "heroes".
A discussion on 7 heroes
Snow Bunny
zwei2stein
I just wonder what are those elite farmers supposed to farm with 7 heroes.
Given that people do NOT do even simplest uw 55h+SS/SV or doa famine/smiters/tank with heroes /entirely possible when you can focus enough as you have enough heroes for that/
Given that people do NOT do even simplest uw 55h+SS/SV or doa famine/smiters/tank with heroes /entirely possible when you can focus enough as you have enough heroes for that/
RedNova88
I'd love to use 7 heroes because when limited to 3 I feel like I'm neglecting the others. But I'm kind of torn on whether or not it should be. Because on one side it's great! Because you can use all 7 and make a perfect team build. On the other hand... Well on the other hand I somehow doubt anyone would go through the trouble of PuGing anymore =/
KZaske
To me, this thread is a waste of keystrokes. Anet is not going to allow 7 heros with good reasons. I doubt that play balance is one of them. As some people have noted, they have opened Pandora’s box when NightFall included heros.
For my feelings on the matter, I would rather see heros go away then have 7 hero teams. I miss the social interaction that use to be part of this game. In short, heros and loot scaling have greatly reduced a lot of the fun this game once had.
For my feelings on the matter, I would rather see heros go away then have 7 hero teams. I miss the social interaction that use to be part of this game. In short, heros and loot scaling have greatly reduced a lot of the fun this game once had.
mage767
7 Heroes in Hard-Mode
3 Heroes in Normal Mode
It is the only balance and fairness I see in all of this. ANET is being a jackass in not giving hard-mode players this chance. WTH will I do with 25 heroes when I cage 22 at a time. This is bullshit.
Also, in HM, the henchies don't have independent flags, which makes aggro control difficult. WTF
Regarding elite areas which are now DEAD (due to less players) such as DOA should be made 7-heroes (able) in HM.
ANET developers probably don't play what they make - so they don't understand their customers' frustration.
3 Heroes in Normal Mode
It is the only balance and fairness I see in all of this. ANET is being a jackass in not giving hard-mode players this chance. WTH will I do with 25 heroes when I cage 22 at a time. This is bullshit.
Also, in HM, the henchies don't have independent flags, which makes aggro control difficult. WTF
Regarding elite areas which are now DEAD (due to less players) such as DOA should be made 7-heroes (able) in HM.
ANET developers probably don't play what they make - so they don't understand their customers' frustration.
mage767
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Then why are they so ... anti-party oriented.
Reputation farming bonuses were mentioned and they are most illustrative: even if people are doing same thing, game system still forces them apart for better efectiveness. If there was "Eyewitness" efect ("For 180 seconds, whenever you gain repuration points, you get 1 extra point for each player in party") for title grind stuff, you would see a LOT of parties with 8 humans. To the extreme that they would refuse to fill in rest of team with heroes if not enough people are out there. There is a lot of stuff possible: i.e. "Mentor bonus": If you already finished mission on highest reward level (or got protector title), you get Y gold for each party member who reaches new reward level on mission (bonus per reward level, scaling per dificulty of mission). You would have experts start parties, coordinate them and pull them throught missions, because if he suceeds on master reward he can get as much as Y gold * 3 * 7. if y is as low as 100g, you get 2100 gold. Also, profit does not go down that much if you have several mentors. ... You can have a lot of neat bonuses for playing with people and helping out, but this game gives none. Not that this stuff would make me party more, but it would be neat, and for sure a lot more helpfull than party search or so for people liking humans. |
Sleeper Service
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
(...)
And just for the thread title, the plural of "hero" is not "heros". It's "heroes". |
true. but its the most comprehensive, non petition, non BS thread out of the lot.
Joe Fierce
i know it's been said but.... heroes are the reason why the game is dying, heroes ae anet's biggest mistake, it's called guild wars, not solo wars.
Sleeper Service
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
i know it's been said but.... heroes are the reason why the game is dying, heroes ae anet's biggest mistake, it's called guild wars, not solo wars.
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You may as well say that GUILDS are killing GW because being in a guild means you no longer really pug with the general public inside outposts/towns/cities.
Mineria
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
It's simply that I'd prefer to play with as little margin of error as possible. If I can control the skillbars of the people I play with, I ensure that the margin of error is tuned into my own skill level.
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Did you know that Guild Wars is a game and not a job?
I'm still wondering why all the experts here didn't pug together...
How hard can it actually be to find 1 player with 3 heroes, and then do it 2 players / 6 heroes?
I really can't believe that some GW players are so antisocial that they even can't manage that.
About those generalizing pug players with words like "idiots"...
Where is you proof for that you are superior?
Torino Cowell
why should they allow 7 heroes? all heroes have done is make the game alot easier , not a good descision . anet should just get rid of them in my opinion , although unfortunately i can't see this happening
Isileth
How has it made it easier? Of course not, heroes cant do anything 8 players cant. (and a bit less even)
More accessible? Deffinately.
Those who dont have time to pug/cant pug/dont want to pug would be able to have access and play at the same level as everyone else.
And for those saying heroes are killing GW, do you think all those of us who play h/h now pugged before heroes? Of course not. I purchased the game BECAUSE I could play solo when I wanted to.
Its not as if never allowing the option would have made more people pug. There would have just been less people to begin with.
Those who enjoy pugging will still carry on pugging even if 7 heroes are added. That option will still exist.
As for finding another player to get 6 heroes or any other combination of players and heroes. One of the main reasons this is asked for is that it allows those without time to pug to have a half decent team. Or those that are doing a quest in the middle of nowhere, or who want to do a set thing in a set area.
Right now anyone that wants to go solo is forced into taking henchmen who are awful.
Heroes making it easier? What build could you take with heroes that you couldnt take with 8 players? What magical overpowered combination is suddenly unlocked?
Adding 7 heroes would allow both groups to play how they want.
More accessible? Deffinately.
Those who dont have time to pug/cant pug/dont want to pug would be able to have access and play at the same level as everyone else.
And for those saying heroes are killing GW, do you think all those of us who play h/h now pugged before heroes? Of course not. I purchased the game BECAUSE I could play solo when I wanted to.
Its not as if never allowing the option would have made more people pug. There would have just been less people to begin with.
Those who enjoy pugging will still carry on pugging even if 7 heroes are added. That option will still exist.
As for finding another player to get 6 heroes or any other combination of players and heroes. One of the main reasons this is asked for is that it allows those without time to pug to have a half decent team. Or those that are doing a quest in the middle of nowhere, or who want to do a set thing in a set area.
Right now anyone that wants to go solo is forced into taking henchmen who are awful.
Heroes making it easier? What build could you take with heroes that you couldnt take with 8 players? What magical overpowered combination is suddenly unlocked?
Adding 7 heroes would allow both groups to play how they want.
Gun Pierson
So Anet, can you pretty please, with sugar on top, give me the ability to play with 7 heroes at once.
Star Gazer
sorry, anet cannot hear you right now. They are working on more important projects, and this is not part of their vision. please leave a message after the tone, and after they get off of their high-horse, they might pay you attention. maybe.
Pandora's box
What bothers me in discussions like this is that those who oppose a change never are able to tell why it would be a problem for themselves! All I hear is things like:
-you can finish the game with a hero/hench team already... So what??
-No reason to support farmers... I beg your pardon? Any idea how low droprates are in a 8 man/hench/hero party? Any idea how much it takes to control a party on you own? Farmers prefer to go solo!
-Players won't party up anymore with other players... They already play hero/hench, they wont party up anyway.
So where exactly does it hurt? Those who don't want a full hero party can choose not to use them. Those who would love it won't take any advantage over other players in the game. I really fail to see the problem.
-you can finish the game with a hero/hench team already... So what??
-No reason to support farmers... I beg your pardon? Any idea how low droprates are in a 8 man/hench/hero party? Any idea how much it takes to control a party on you own? Farmers prefer to go solo!
-Players won't party up anymore with other players... They already play hero/hench, they wont party up anyway.
So where exactly does it hurt? Those who don't want a full hero party can choose not to use them. Those who would love it won't take any advantage over other players in the game. I really fail to see the problem.
nugzta
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Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
i know it's been said but.... heroes are the reason why the game is dying, heroes ae anet's biggest mistake, it's called guild wars, not solo wars.
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Crom The Pale
Many people seam to forget there are two forms of GW.
PvP is there for your Skill>Time and the challenge.
PvE is there for fun, grind, repeatability, farming, RPG and just killing time/stuff.
Heroes improved PvE and took nothing away from PvP, infact it should have opened up more people to PvP since they now could complete some areas that were frustrating to do given the time needed and the difficulty of finding a pug with the right skills that knew what to do or was willing to try things your way.
PvP is there for your Skill>Time and the challenge.
PvE is there for fun, grind, repeatability, farming, RPG and just killing time/stuff.
Heroes improved PvE and took nothing away from PvP, infact it should have opened up more people to PvP since they now could complete some areas that were frustrating to do given the time needed and the difficulty of finding a pug with the right skills that knew what to do or was willing to try things your way.
Snow Bunny
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Originally Posted by Mineria
*pukes*
Did you know that Guild Wars is a game and not a job? |
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How hard can it actually be to find 1 player with 3 heroes, and then do it 2 players / 6 heroes? I really can't believe that some GW players are so antisocial that they even can't manage that. |
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About those generalizing pug players with words like "idiots"... Where is you proof for that you are superior? |
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Originally Posted by Mokone
Face it, Heroes are better than you
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Vinraith
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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service
heroes are the reason why the game is not dead
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Absent heroes I'd never have bought Nightfall, Factions, or EotN. What would have been the point, I couldn't even finish Prophecies with crappy henchmen (even when bringing a friend or two) and I certainly never PUGed.
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by Pandora's box
What bothers me in discussions like this is that those who oppose a change never are able to tell why it would be a problem for themselves! All I hear is things like:
-you can finish the game with a hero/hench team already... So what?? -No reason to support farmers... I beg your pardon? Any idea how low droprates are in a 8 man/hench/hero party? Any idea how much it takes to control a party on you own? Farmers prefer to go solo! -Players won't party up anymore with other players... They already play hero/hench, they wont party up anyway. So where exactly does it hurt? Those who don't want a full hero party can choose not to use them. Those who would love it won't take any advantage over other players in the game. I really fail to see the problem. |
Oh and btw Guildwars is named after an era in Tyrian history. Anet explained this a while ago. So it has nothing to do with PvP or pugging.
Thundro
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Originally Posted by Pandora's box
...
-Players won't party up anymore with other players... They already play hero/hench, they wont party up anyway. ... |
But let's see the general picture here.
> Before NF
You travel to an outpost and see all kinds of people and a few groups.
> After NF
You travel to an outpost and see all kinds of groups and a few people.
That's the problem with heroes and why they prevent making party's, cause if you make a party you look for people and not groups.
pamelf
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Originally Posted by Thundro
You're right, for this they should remove heroes all together to solve the problem. I myself wouldn't mind if they did.
But let's see the general picture here. > Before NF You travel to an outpost and see all kinds of people and a few groups. > After NF You travel to an outpost and see all kinds of groups and a few people. That's the problem with heroes and why they prevent making party's, cause if you make a party you look for people and not groups. |
Etta
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Originally Posted by Thundro
You're right, for this they should remove heroes all together to solve the problem. I myself wouldn't mind if they did.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thundro
Before NF
You travel to an outpost and see all kinds of people and a few groups. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thundro
After NF
You travel to an outpost and see all kinds of groups and a few people. |
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Originally Posted by Thundro
That's the problem with heroes and why they prevent making party's
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Isileth
Heroes dont stop people pugging.
Pugs stop people pugging.
Plus not everyone has time to pug, is on at a decent time to get a pug, is in an area with enough people to pug, wants to do something that people pug etc
Heroes allow people to play the game when and how they want.
Adding 7 heroes would expand that even more, letting people play whatever builds they want, going to any area they want etc
Pugs stop people pugging.
Plus not everyone has time to pug, is on at a decent time to get a pug, is in an area with enough people to pug, wants to do something that people pug etc
Heroes allow people to play the game when and how they want.
Adding 7 heroes would expand that even more, letting people play whatever builds they want, going to any area they want etc
bhavv
A posting in another thread bashing my pro monk bars tells me I need to repeat myself here again.
I want 7 heroes to use whatever 8 skillbars I want without idiot puggers telling me my bars suck. Me and 7 heroes with my skill bars would be better and way beyond ignorant and moronic puggers.
I want 7 heroes to use whatever 8 skillbars I want without idiot puggers telling me my bars suck. Me and 7 heroes with my skill bars would be better and way beyond ignorant and moronic puggers.
bungusmaximus
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Originally Posted by bhavv
A posting in another thread bashing my pro monk bars tells me I need to repeat myself here again.
I want 7 heroes to use whatever 8 skillbars I want without idiot puggers telling me my bars suck. Me and 7 heroes with my skill bars would be better and way beyond ignorant and moronic puggers. |
muhahahaha
bhavv
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Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
This waffles my rofls, like that guy in a pug i was in that told me Triple Chop sucked. OMG take obsidian flesh man you will be invincible!
muhahahaha |
oh lookie, heres a screencap of it
http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw378qs6.jpg
7 heroes for testing my own 8 bars whenever I want plz? I got the gold brass knuckles now so I'll test it again as E/A sin some time.
ChaoticCoyote
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Originally Posted by Vinraith
Someone should emblazon that in giant flaming letters at the top of the forum to remind the people that sincerely believe the social side of the game would be just hunky-dory if it weren't for heroes that they'd be playing the game completely alone without them.
Absent heroes I'd never have bought Nightfall, Factions, or EotN. What would have been the point, I couldn't even finish Prophecies with crappy henchmen (even when bringing a friend or two) and I certainly never PUGed. |
And for ANet to claim that the 3-hero limit is some sort of fundamental design decision -- I call BS. The original game and first chapter didn't even HAVE heroes; it has always been possible (if not fun) to play solo with henchmen.
Bryant Again
I'm still standing by what I've said: ANet won't enable 4 additional heroes because the repercussions are completely unpredictable. This is not saying I don't want more heroes, I'd *love* more heroes, but I have no freaking idea what'll happen after that.
creelie
All the people who want 7 heroes are not reluctantly joining PUGs; they're using 3 heroes and 4 henchies. Enabling 7 heroes would just open up new horizons of experimentation and awesomeness.
Personally, I want to roll out with 8 black moas. =D
Personally, I want to roll out with 8 black moas. =D
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
I'm still standing by what I've said: ANet won't enable 4 additional heroes because the repercussions are completely unpredictable. This is not saying I don't want more heroes, I'd *love* more heroes, but I have no freaking idea what'll happen after that.
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Loviatar
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go back in time to a GW start you onviously missed.
on all sites there have been 2 items that kept coming up.
1. fix the henchmen so i am not forced to use a totally lost time PUG
every little bit of henchman improvement was greeted with thanks not you ruined the game
heroes are henchmen the way they should have been at the staet.
2. THE LOUSY PUG FROM HELL THAT SHOT 3 HOURS OF MY TIME
the good pug people are in guilds OR ON FRIENDS LISTS
HEROES SAVED GW TAKING THEM OUT WOULD BE THE KILLER
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by creelie
All the people who want 7 heroes are not reluctantly joining PUGs; they're using 3 heroes and 4 henchies. Enabling 7 heroes would just open up new horizons of experimentation and awesomeness.
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But if 7 heroes were available, could it encourage a relatively normal pugger to stop pugging altogether now that they don't have to work with those "stupid henchies," ruining peoples chances at pugging who have no heroes?
This is why it's a tricky situation, because each side has just as much claim as the other.
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Test weekend/week?
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creelie
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
But if 7 heroes were available, could it encourage a relatively normal pugger to stop pugging altogether now that they don't have to work with those "stupid henchies," ruining peoples chances at pugging who have no heroes?
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People who don't want to pug, and don't have heroes, just use henchies.
Heroes displace henchies, not people. Pugs are only fun if all the team members actually want to be there; teams full of people grumpily pugging because they can't quite get the job done with NPCs are way worse than teams full of newbies.
zwei2stein
I think that you are forgeting one thing:
power of heroes is proportional to skill of player who equips them a gives them build. It could be that henches somehow balanced skillsets are keeping some people alive and kicking, and they are in for nasty surprise when they go out with heroes and ... die.
power of heroes is proportional to skill of player who equips them a gives them build. It could be that henches somehow balanced skillsets are keeping some people alive and kicking, and they are in for nasty surprise when they go out with heroes and ... die.
anonymous
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
I think that you are forgeting one thing:
power of heroes is proportional to skill of player who equips them a gives them build. It could be that henches somehow balanced skillsets are keeping some people alive and kicking, and they are in for nasty surprise when they go out with heroes and ... die. |
I'm all for 7 heroes, I'd be happy to replace the 4 henchmen currently holding their spot.
pamelf
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Originally Posted by creelie
All the people who want 7 heroes are not reluctantly joining PUGs; they're using 3 heroes and 4 henchies. Enabling 7 heroes would just open up new horizons of experimentation and awesomeness.
Personally, I want to roll out with 8 black moas. =D |
bungusmaximus
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Originally Posted by bhavv
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gloria vander belt
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Originally Posted by legion_rat
I know they have said NO. But I was wondering what everyones opinion was on why. Would you prefer to run with 7 heros if you could? What reasons would you not?
My reasons for: There are times when it is very hard to get a party. Henchmen often just dont cut it for certain quest, and I can never seem to find a person to help. (Fire and Pain) Henches often do not have useful builds, charge as an elite is not so good. My reasons against: It could cause overpowered teams, & heros and one player, with 8 pets, and a MM, so 16 member team +10 minions = 26 member team. It would over simplify certain areas. Getting Norn/asura/dwarf/ebon points would be a lot easier to grind and they arent that hard now. (course that could be a reason for as well) ok your thoughts. ~the rat~ |
Lucius2
would totally sign getting 7 heroes, because the truth is, that many pugs just suck or it takes ages to get at least a decent group.
And if i then would still fail at doing certain dungeons/quests or whatelse it would be my own fault.
And if i then would still fail at doing certain dungeons/quests or whatelse it would be my own fault.