A discussion on 7 heroes

In her latest chat Gaile said:

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...48#post5305948

Yes they seem quite quick to try and dodge the questions about it.

For example in that very same thread someone posted


Which she went on to ignore in her reply.


At the end of the day this isnt some small issue like wanting silly hats or some armor not to clip. And its not something they can just ignore without annoying a lot of people, especially as they try to run away from it with completely foolish comments such as how it would be to powerful!

At the end of the day I think they have done a great job and made a very good game, I also dont expect them to just add anything and everything people ask for. But when its an issue of this size and thats gone on for as long as it has they could at the very least provide proper reasonings as to why they seem to not want to deal with it.

How could it not be balanced for 7 heroes? Wouldn't it be the same as having 7 other rl people in your party? Or does she mean that the game mechanics can't support having 7 hero AI's?

Holy smokes - I'd LOVE to have what the devs are smoking!
For a game to not be balanced for 7 heroes - it would first need to balanced for something.
Pick something.
ANYTHING.

Sadly they do mean balance.

It would heve been much more sensible on their part to try and say it was some technical limitation but they lost that chance now. (Even then it would have been fairly obvious that it wasnt true)


But yeah a team of 8 good players > 1 player + 7 heroes

So im not sure where they got the idea that they could try and hide behind balance from.

lol what? 2 people + 6 heroes is balanced but 1 person + 7 heroes is not? I don't need 7 heroes, but it would help. Just thought that's a pretty silly reason so I had to comment

Holy fcuk, the game is balanced even for 8 ursans, but not for 7 heroes + 1 guy?

I think it would make elite missions worthless since in the hands of a good player
7 heroes can be better then 7 other players(even if they are good) because you can make sure the builds have alot of synergy and pick your actual team line up,
whereas a team of 7 people takes a while to setup(if your not using guild members).

Plus since they are completley reliable(no dropping out or getting disconnected) they would be great for long missions(elite areas,underworld,fissure of woe).

Perhaps I need to dig up one of the many posts that lists all the flaws on the AI?
Even a team of 7 heroes with custom builds can be beaten by a pug with a little organisation and practically always by a good guild team.


And the same could be said about PvE skills (mostly ursan), they make Elite areas worthless to an even greater extent.

I was just talking to Shin.
He Ursan pugged HM FoW. 1 hour 10 mins. On his mesmer.
Personally - I'd rather do that then go with 7 heroes who don't have PvE skills and waste much more time there.

As long as heroes can not used PvE skills - they present an alternative at best.

The quest of Heros really boils down to fun vs accomplishment.

With a live team your going to get more done faster and with much less frustration(assuming you have a good team, freinds/guildies).

With Heros you can have a little more fun and go slow, maybe you don't get the job done and maybe you get a little more frustrated with the AI, but in the end its more enjoyable than a bad PUG.

lol me too, if the game was balanced to begin with ursan parties would of been delt with by now, or gimicky team builds wouldnt of been needed for DoA just to complete it long before ursan came around. oh by the way who was the iddiot who approved the enemy groupings and redarded builds in EoTN. most of the time when playing there i get the feeling some PvP flunky got his last chance to keep his job by moving to the PvE side of the game.

lol...that makes me chuckle. Hopefully sometime soon she can give a reason that isn't such BS xD

Like..."They just don't feel like coding it..."

I mean come on...not balanced? But 6 Ursan/2 Monks using consumables is balanced? Try again please...

[QUOTE]first they have done repeated testing on the closed servers and everybody from the top down says no.

second is a much earlier post from one of your very own super farmers.

he/she stated they would very happily trade all four henchies for ONE ADDITIONAL HERO and give them a party of 5 to get all 8 exempted list drops split 5 ways instead of 8.

they stated they could do far more much more efficiently with only one more hero so.............

IMAGINE ADDING 4 MORE INSTEAD OF ONE MORE

Gaile said right at the very start it was a full team decision on proven fact testing not your greedy guessing (GG mine not Gaile)

you wont get it will you?

[QUOTE=Loviatar]
uhh...wth are you talking about? Seriously, I didn't understand that post at all? Super farmers? wtf does this have to do with farming? o.O

People can ALREADY have 1 player and 6 heros, in case you didn't realize that. Join with second account, add heros, leave with second account.

Not balanced? They introduced PvE skills, and the game is screwed balance-wise anyway....

[QUOTE=Loviatar]No idea what you said. You mean that A.Net has testers that want 6x ursan + 2x monk and don't want something that 80% of community wants, that is 7 heroes? Because it's UNBALANCED? I lol'd.

Btw, A.Net knows that skill > time is much better in other games? Diablo 2 - you won't be able to get past lvl 80 if you screwed your char or don't know what eq to get. WoW - you can't do high-level instances if you don't have skill. Ragnarok Online - try to get past lvl 60 with crappy character, without leeching :] Hell, even Fury buttonmasher requires more skill.

I agree we should have 7 heroes but think anything could be done with 7 heroes fow/uw doa it would make everything even easier than ursan already does face it this wont be implented.

Loviatar, if ANet knows precisely what's perfect and good and awesome for the game, why the hell would they add something like UB?

You don't even need a second account. Just get a buddy to group with you and leave after you zone.

1 Human + 7 Heroes = 3 PvE skills and actual builds

8 Humans = 24 PvE skills or Ursan Blessing

How on earth would the former be easier?

A: I wouldn't have to spend several hours grinding up to R10 ursan to appease rank discriminating pugs(read the progression of the ursan abilities, with more then 3 the difference in a R5 and r10 is insignificant)

B: I wouldn't have to waste time with AFK or leeching douches.

C: I could just set up my party and go, no sitting in a town spamming for a group or forming, reforming, watching pugs join and drop.

D: The Artificial Intelligence has Intelligence, it does what I say, when I say, doesn't backtalk or screw around. Won't insult the koreans, homosexuals or black people, won't offend my eyes with poor web grammar, won't CTRL+click spam the chat box a million times. The only thing, and I mean only thing that AI can't do better then humes is get out of intense AoE(you have to do that for them, and I kinda would like a scatter option, like say I click the cancel flag button twice, but thats another topic), and maybe they make a few silly decisions with certain skills. Everything else they are better.

I'd almost concur with the 7 heroes would be broken, because I KNOW I could kick the games ass inside out with them instead of humes because the average hume you pick up has rotten cheese for brains(IE ranger primaries with oath shot, meteor and meteor shower, or monks with pets and bows), anet knows this. I love the norn blessings because it gives these screw heads a fool proof bar that any idiot could use. I could get to the FoW/uw chests in about 2 hours or less with a full hench party if they let me, a few farmers going in there could clean those places out, send the heroes away, loot the reward chests and come out rich. If they aren't going to allow 7 heroes, put elite henchmen that you can take into the elite missions. Like the Zaishens in the tombs, make it so they can't leave the zone and only enter the elite missions. As the games popularity dwindles these zones will eventually become deserted, what then?

I'm mildly tempted to start joining PUGs but to carry on my normal Gw activities (xfire chat, frequent alt+tabbing into Firefox or other games while waiting AFK) while doing it, just to give a big slap to the people whining that heroes kill PUGs and to show just how unimportant I feel PUGs are.

Hugh -- PuGs are bad.
It wouldn't make it easier, it would make it less grindy.
There is a HUGE difference between repetetive, easy grind and actually playing.

This entire '7 Heroes will make it easier' logic is flawed, infact, BEYOND flawed.

Seven heroes make things more fun. By a lot.

Balance?

Balance in PVE is priority #103485 ever since universal-soldier-grade-steroids and Skills of Mass Destruction were introduced into the game anyway.

There should be 7 heroes in every part of the game so I don't have to play with you. When I bought the game it said on the box "Internet connection required to play". It didn't say you must endure the pain of interacting with others to fully participate in the game. Many of us don't like the majority of other people in the game. Why should I have to endure looking like a failure in game because you are? Why should I have to deal with you at all? The idea that anet forces players to interact with other players in game to fully participate in the games activities is horrible fail logic by anet which is trying to change peoples mentalities which is never going to happen.

<3. I like the way you think.

Wow, I read this whole thread.

And like many other said before me, no matter how many heroes are or aren't available, I still won't PuG, for many of the reasons listed already, so the idea of additional heroes killing PuG's is absurd.

And for Lovwhatever, if 1000 players are presented with an issue, and 100 respond, those 100 are your vocal constituent, and if 78 of those 100 are in favor, they are your vocal majority. Not too hard to figure out.

Haven't really seen a good argument against having additional heroes available in all 46 pages and 829 posts.

Just FYI guys: when ANet speaks of "balance" they mean PvP.
Actually to be precise they speak of GvG.

Given that response I don't think they've quite understood the question. They apparently think they were asked about bringing 7 heroes into TA or GvG.

I'd run

P/W
P/Rt
D/W
D/N
R/Rt
N/E
Mo/E

Never lose PvE again.

I wouldn't mind 7 heroes being an unlock along with Hard Mode on a campaign-by-campaign basis, with the same H/H restrictions we already have on higher end areas.

It wouldn't be very useful for farming since they suck up drops the same as human players and can't use Ursan, which most human players do. It would just reduce the time c-spacing through more tedious parts of the game I already beat without them, and it would give me something useful to do with the tons of Vitae/Attunement/Radiant/Survivor runes and insignias I'm building up in storage

aww what would the GW storyline be like without Mhenlo, Eve and Cynn~?!

and who doesn't love Little Thom~!?

I'd much rather see improved henchie AI/skillsets, and even a little tinkering to their bars in specific outposts, so they can be more useful to the mission at hand ..

QFT. As far as I know most of us only want 7 heroes for PVE or did I miss something in the conversation thus far?

I gotta quote this for the truth that it is.

^Troll is trolling^(Default name)

Please pay no attention to him we don't need this thread locked but it's probably heading that way.
EDIT: Doesn't matter who started it, you're contributing to the problem at any rate.

On topic, once again I'll say that I'd love 7 heroes and have yet to hear a logical reason as to why the answer is still no. They give us so many heroes, and yet we use so few. I mean, I'd love to use some of my other heroes, most don't even have runes on them because I used them in the one mission that I got them and then they never saw daylight again unless I was forced to bring them out for storyline purposes.

Hopefully the mods will just delete that little flame war right there.

Afterall this is the main thread on 7 heroes and all the others got closed and people told to post in here. So it makes sense to keep this one up.

This is probably one of the most longest standing threads that isn't something like "Post your XYZ Drops/Whatever!"

That said, I'll add that "screen clutter" is no longer an issue thanks due the new hotkeys.

Dont mention the hotkeys :O

The hero haters will complain that they dont have 52 free keys on their keyboard to bind to every hero skill!

The reasons for YES....Agree

The reasons you say NO...ARE YES TO... Why

There are already overpowerd teams... 600/smite duo, Ursan all over the
place, and so on.

So 7 hero's is just more fun for those who wants to play GW as a rpg.
Who dont care's just keep playing as they are.

Please keep it civil, polite and on topic.

There are 3 counter arguments from the quote earlier in the other thread (which was closed by that Ryker mod who jumps in, thinks it's a QQ thread about Ursan, and closes it, modpower ftw lol): On the bright side, we can further discuss in this topic and team up in here

1) balance
2) social interacting
3) infrastructure

At the time I made the other thread I thought the imba argument was the only one. I don't see balance and infrastructure as a problem anymore and what's more: I almost always play with real life friends since we started with prophecies' release. I don't pug in general except for DoA HM full run as we're not with enough in our guild. As a matter of fact we're only a few friends and we play in pairs of 2 men + 6 hero teams most of the time. Before Nightfall it was 2 men + 6 hench most of the time for the exception of the occasional pug back then.

Now we have dozens of synergy builds for 2men/6 hero teams and it's fun to play them and experiment etc. But when my other friends are not online (they're more casual players in terms of time), I have to loose the synergy builds and take 4 hench. No prob, I played through the 'whole' dam game in HM with those hench noobs. It was frustrating at times to the point the fun was gone, but I did it as well as many others I'm sure. No pug forming groups were around most of the time btw.

If they allow 7 heroes, I will still choose to play with my real life friends over 7 heroes any day, cause it was actually one of the main reasons we started playing GW, the coop play amongst ourselves, while avoiding pugs whenever we can. The prob arrises when they're not online. So the social argument has no effect on us.



Chacheena quote: 'The social argument doesn't apply to you? Well, sorry, but they didn't design the game with just you in mind'

What do you don't understand about my last sentence, where I say the social argument has no effect on 'US' as in me and my friends, which will apply to lots of peeps who play this game. 2 men 6 hero teams are common as stated by the devs.

The only argument against 7 heroes is that it would probably put an end to hench. Maybe make it exclusive to HM?