A discussion on 7 heroes

Excellent, your advice is if I don't like what the box says I should go play a game released in 2000? I guess I have to wonder why you don't go play a game that doesn't allow solo play if it is that important to you?

And, why particularly do you think I shouldn't be soloing it? It has *always* been designed around that since day one (it was one of GW core requirements). If you want a game that doesn't have AI you have WoW, SWG, LOTRO, EQ2, and many many many others. I have one and one only, Diablo II only comes close and is eight years old. Even should there be another game that allows it there is no reason to say I have to go play it as, again, solo play is an integral part of GW.

*shrug* I don't care too much either way if I could take the hench into those last few areas. I did quite well before heroes were released, though I would like to play with better team builds than what I currently do. Plus a larger player base is easier to find PUGs on - I still do it from time to time and if heroes had not been done I would most likely have left some time ago. I know many others that way.

Anet wants to encourage PUGs whilst allowing people to nearly fully solo the game (the only areas that they wish to restrict you just don't have the option). Arguing that the people who solo the game should go elsewhere is ignoring their design goals *significantly* more than 7 heroes would ever do so I can't believe you truly believe in their goals (you are only using them here because they happen to reinforce this part of your argument).

Of course I can't as I don't have server logs - however that is about the time people started complaining and we started experiencing the decline. During that time PUG's died and the vast vast vast majority of people that were around then experienced the same thing. Your choice to rail against that if you wish, just recall that to most people if you are that incapable of seeing what happened you are mostly not going to get listened to otherwise.

I may look stupid if I had remotely said so (or even implied it - since this post is nearing 1000 posts I would have to say it is obvious many are unhappy), however since I didn't I'll leave it up to how that makes the accuser look. I simply stated that there is no other game in it's class, AI has always been a large part of the game (and, because of that, telling people who play with it to go elsewhere because this isn't the game for them is a stupid thing to say), and PUGs died well before the release of Factions.

If you have required a PUG since about 6-8 months since the game release and within the first month of each chapters release then this game probably isn't going to be much fun. If you are on at peak times you can get one for a mission fairly easily but it will most likely die a horrid death. Off peak times or for quests or anything other than Ursan title farming then you might as well forget it. Plus 7 heroes would go a long ways towards helping that class of people out so, as far as being "helpful" is concerned you are kinda shooting your own argument there.

This game has always been about being a casual online RPG wherein you can play with the AI or friends. In fact, I have the original GW box in front of me right now, on the side with the warrior cover under the heading "It's Your Adventure" the last line reads "Join with friends or play solo with a band of skillful henchman" (emphasis mine). Now, it is quite arguable that the hench aren't terribly skillful, but it is obvious that the game has always meant to be a solo game if you choose to play it that way.

So, I say again if *you* want a game that doesn't allow solo play GW has never been the game for you and you should go elsewhere. The design team for GW2 has stated many times that they are keeping the design goal of the whole game being soloable so GW2 isn't going to be for you either (unless they change their minds). I would also guess that if 7 heroes is going to make or break the game for someone they might as well go elsewhere too as (if it ever does happen) I doubt it will be anytime soon and that is no matter how much I or the community in general wants them.

emphasis HENCHMEN not 7 heroes.

Even Gw EoTn promotes solo play

Quote from box
"Have you got the skills?
made for level 20 players- from exciting solo adventures all the way up to true master level quests."

How many total heroes are in the game? And we only get to use 3? This entire discussion is LOLishis. the game should have updated to allow max party of heroes with the release of gwen. The game promotes solo play, Find a new arguement.

I like to think Guild Wars isn't promoting any particular play style, it should be "flexible". puggers will get to pug, and players who wants 7 heros should get it, simple. We/Me who don't like to pug never try to stop puggers from pugging, why should it be the other way around?

Finally a rational gamer! Inform the news we have a unique sighting! Pumpkin pie should be a mod!

If they allowed 7 heroes I'd buy GWEN the next day.

The only attraction the expansion has for me is the hero population, and if I can't use more than 3 at once I don't need any more than I have now.
I couldn't care less about ursan and monuments. There's more content, but I'm still plodding along(after almost 1700 hours and 35months) in the other 3 continents with various characters.

Even early on I usually henched. Lots of times I didn't really have a choice, as I work till midnite and lots of towns are deserted when I play. That's gotten worse now, with everyone spread out over 4 games and nm/hm.

I can't see how this would be negative to anyone. If I want to do the mission myself I will, even if it gimps me. If I'm feeling sociable and see someone looking for a party, I might do that. Having 7 heroes wouldn't effect my decision, it would only make the solo play more enjoyable.

It WOULD make those titles more useful and allow me to use the complete GW spellbook i unlocked to it's fullest extend.

Perhaps seven heroes would be nice, providing Anet added a little feature that made playing with pugs more desirable. Extra gold and better chanse to get rares/ectos for each player in the team perhaps?

But what about the henchies? Guess they would still be good if you had four smiters and needed some healing but still...

My general opinion on the matter too - unfortunately it doesn't seem to be the one of very many people that count . At least allow hench in the end game areas if not all heroes. There are areas of the game that are pretty much 100% off limits (unless I want to put up with the crap that made me go hench in the first place - well before heroes).

Yeah, and 7 heroes is IMPROVED soloing because heroes are improved henchmen.
Last time I checked, improvement is good.
And last time I checked your post history- you're a troll.

Which single player RPG is the same thing as GW?

Oh wait, none?

Yes she is. /agree.

Oh FFS Anet just add the 7 heros and stop all the whining.

The wine wont stop untill we have some bread to eat with it too. The bread in this case is 7 heroes.

Give us the bread and the wine will be consumed.

But, they never advertised IMPROVED SOLOING w/7 heroes.

I also share the opinion that ANet should implement the option to allow us to utilize more heroes. I do not enjoy pick up groups that much. I enjoy playing Guild Wars today with H/H and have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I will not be able to explore the content offered by areas like DoA and the Elite Missions. My real life schedule only allows gaming time in small chunks, and I often need to be AFK in the middle of a mission. So not only do I not enjoy PUGs, but the PUGs would not enjoy having me either.

One thing I have loved about GW is how it is flexible to your own personal gaming style. I like the solo game, and it's pretty much the only way I can play at this stage in life. ANet please open up more hero utilization options for us.

For those of you who say certain areas like the Elite Missions are mean to be played with humans, I say "why do you care"? You will never see me in your PUG anyway. More heroes will not change that. So your argument has no implication to you, but you only say it to downgrade my gaming experience?

On my nightfall box it says: 'Recruit a TEAM of fearless heroes who will fight at your side and follow orders in combat. Customise armour, equip weapons and lead your team to battle.'

I want to make a team of heroes and the box says I can. It doesn't say a team with only 3 heroes.

If all the peeps who want 7 heroes would donate 10 dollar/euro, we could rent a corps of lawyers and sue Anet In the meantime we all specialise in the fine art of sabotaging pugs. Feel the wrath.

That would be your perogative.


H/H are to give flexibility in team not to permanently replace players. Yes I know there are plenty of times you would prefer H/H but GW is supposed to be more effective using real people who have developed a feel for GW.

I think I should make it clearer to prevent miscomm - I didn't mean that people that solo should find another game, but rather that this isn't how it should be played. I only recommend those who have a problem with teamming and aren't satisfied with the soloing in GW to find another game.

I'm arguing from the player's view. What is best for Anet isn't what I am referring about, I was referring to what the game is supposed to be. I hate Ursan because I think it destroys the game, but would actually suggest Anet to keep some form of it simply because its better for them.

I partly agree with this. AI is of course a large part of the game and there really isn't exactly a game like GW. However, if the player prefers to grind and prefer soloing, GW may not suit their wants as well as games such as WoW and D II.

Obviously certain missions such as the Torment realms, Eternal grove ect. can certainly lead to horrid deaths, but in a way is part of the fun. No risk, no reward. Getting into a good pug takes patience and foresight on everyone's part; having a monk with more ranger skills spells trouble (duh) but not everything is as obvious.

H/H are meant to be an alternative to pugs, not the other way around. It's unfortunate that the more developed PvEer now relies more on H/H more than ever.

Yes PvE can definitely be soloed but at the same time its also Team oriented. I can't say how much Anet meant for GW PvE is to be team or solo oriented but if its anything like its PvP, other players must play a role.


I never said I don't want solo play in GW lol. I love my heros but at the same time I recognize the importance of pug in PvE. PvP in GW isn't really all that friendly where you first start out, so new players need to start out somewhere.

I play equal PvP as I do PvE, so maybe that's why I stress team play being more important that solo play.

I envision GW 2 to be pretty different from GW so I will have to see what it's about. Whether or not PvE is to my liking, there is always PvP. I usually H/H myself but when I want to have fun, I pug.

7 heros will be as likely implemented as Ursan will be nerfed: It's not going to happen.

I'd like to respectfully point out a flaw in that argument. GW is not intended to be about forcing a particular type of gameplay. You say "this isn't how it should be played" but I say you cannot dictate how the game should be played. You like your heroes and you like to PUG. That is great, and I wish you well. I like my heroes, but I do not like to PUG (nor am I able to most of the time - see my previous post.) I would like to have you "wish me well" in my preferred style of gameplay also. I think GW is a great flexible game that can cater to both styles of play. My desire for more hero utilization will have no impact on your game, since you wouldn't see me in your PUG anyway. However your desire to not have more hero utilization definitely impacts my game.

They are still quite stupid from time to time though. Better than your average PuG, still.

...which is why I left this thread a long time ago, since it's useless arguing the same points over and over again for something that just isn't gonna happen.

It is completely understandable why people that want 7 heroes want to keep this thread alive, however...they are just as fervent as the people that do not want Ursan to be nerfed. The desire for more power isn't something that is easily given up.

Uggh my whole point is that, I think this is how it should be played, I am hardly condemning anyone who doesn't agree with me. I also said myself that I H/H plenty when I can't stand the pugs.

I wish everyone well except elitists in PvE and PvP.

Yeah I'm starting to feel this is getting to be really pointless.

7 heros/ursan whatever, it's not going to happen.

BTW go UT!! I go to UT also.

Actually what is says is and I quote: Also on page 50 of the manual it says

*Nightfall and Prophecies both advertise the ability to play with AI. As such we are playing exactly how the game was intended to be played. Well, one of two ways. With players or with AI. We happened to choose the AI, which was intended to be an entirely valid method of gameplay. This is exactly how it should be played.

*Edited for correct game.

I can see that with all the keystroke options and other crap this would be a major task to do from a programming point of view. But if I could select my own heroes as henchmen, no major control over them other than I equip, rune, Imsignia and give them builds. The extra 4 heroes can run in aggressive mode or their profession default mode and I can only have the henchmen group flag pin, then this would be at least a good start. But look at the 25 heroes you have and realise that you can only ever select 3 to pay with at any given time and just weep at ANets reluctance to do what I would suggest the majority of PvE players would like. Shame on you.

To those of you, like myself who would enjoy having a full party of heroes, I suggest we begin sending in emails and writing letters. The more people who make contact and request this, the more chance we have of getting it.

This discussion is good for learning insight into more heroes, but unfortunitly many people are posting incorrect information simply to try to ruin our chances, or because they themselves hate heroes.

7 heroes would not grant a great power increase. it would ofcourse give an advantage over henchmen due to customized skillbars, customized weapons and runes and the ability to set flags how we like.

I am going to begin sending emails, writing letters and sending postcards once i get the contact info, I will also post it here in this thread so those of you who want this feature can show support.

We want to be able to control all the heroes, not just 3, we want to be able to flag all our heroes, not just 3.

7 heroes will be better than henchies, but not as good as pugs, the AI is still no replacement for the human mind.

It is a reasonable request that anet WILL accept if enough people show support for it. just like every other idea they have ever accepted, it has to have a good amount of support behind it.

These people who say no to 7 heroes are just players with a grudge against those of us who do not want to be subjected to their in-game bs. They simply want more people as options to pick from, Which is one sided.

Those of you with even a basic understanding of how guildwars works will note that 7 heroes will not overpower solo players, (7 heroes are not stronger than 7 human players) (if you take 7 heroes into certain areas you can still bet on a party wipe). we should have the same power as pugs atleast, and 7 heroes will grant us more fun(tm).

So for those of us who want 7 heroes that would like to contact the company in massive amounts, make yourself known, I will get the contact info and PM you. I have close to 30 players in-game that are going to support this for many reasons. And that was only after 1 day of telling friends and guildies.

Don't let the trolls and naysayers and bitter players discourage you from what you want, But also let us not sit on a fansite and just talk about it, this site wont do us any good if we really want this to happen. We must contact the source and let them know what we want in a respectful way.

With enough support this will happen!

(Only want to say Sorry for my bad grammer)

I see absolutly no reason why they cant give us the use of 7 Heros. I for one dont play with pugs.. havent done sins the first game if it whasent with my friend that gott me started with GW. I made my own guild with friends and famely because we DONT want to play with pugs. For simple reasons some arent that good with english and are inbarest to type or talk in TS/Vent/Skype so they never pug. Dont want to sit and and read all the crap a inmature brat is typeing or writing on the map or pinging hes brain out.

For people that has stated before that it would hurt the PUG experiens or what i should call it.. It wont!! Because we arent going to pug any bloody way! If i was forced to play with other players i would go back to Final Fantasy XI. I'd rather spend 6 hours there trying to get/form a party because there are more mature players because its a game with monthly costs(No monthly pree payed cards. You need a credidcard!) and therefor it singels out many idiots.

Anet has always stated that this was a game for casual players. It is to some extent, tho if you want to play in some areas sutch as Deep,Urgoz, DoA,FoW,UW you need to play with pugs or frinds. Then we come to the part many here do.. They go AFK when they want to in hero/hency partys. in other groups you cant.. I know i cant always spend a few hours without wanting or needing to go afk and there-fore i dont play these areas.

From my view GW is digging its own grave atm.. they're letting bugs remain in the game that should be fixed. There not really listening to what players want(Sure some things... i dont want to say there ignoring us) and with all these damn uppdates.. i dont know how many i know that has stoped playing because of all the "Nerfs" yes I'll call it nerfs.. I dont liked being TOLD to change my build.. sure i can get around it and have during the last 3 years. Tho many havent and has droped the game.. Tho this seems to be the way Anet wants it.

Regards
/Estat

Gig 'em tea-sips....

Then you must have another box which is highly doubtful. On mine is the text I quoted. If scans are needed for proof I sugest we both take a scan of our boxes and post them here. Also other people can confirm this if they step up.

The manual is inside the box and you can only read what's on the box when you buy the product. And it says I can recruit a team of fearless heroes. Seems like a cool gaming experience. But instead, we got a teaser. You can only take 3 heroes with you, that's not even half of a team of 8.

A team could be as little as 2 or in the case of GW 3 heroes plus you. No need to scan as you would probably photoshop your copy anyways and I have no scanner to begin with. You can read it any way you want to as to what a "team" means vs a "group" or vice versa. That's what they call marketing wording strategy. They put something in words that can be interpreted many different ways, but, of course THEIR interpretation is the only one that is valid. Unless they put an actual figure like You can create a team of SEVEN heroes, then it's only your own imagination that thinks that's what it means when it just says you can recruit a team of heroes.

I didn't think that you guys had 'puters in them there small towns...where do they fit on your tractors?

So now you accuse me of photoshopping stuff. Next you say you don't have a scanner yourself, neither do I but I'm sure you know someone who can help you out.

The terminology: 'Marketing wording strategy' as you call it doesn't exist. We're done here. I believe it's time for you to find a bridge to live under again.


@Huntmaster Avatar: You can count on me. I have a few ideas myself.

Just one point of fact, when the game was released and people played with 7Henchmen the monster AI was much much different than it is today.

Now that monsters run from AoE, kite, make better use of healing/resurects it stands to reason that we should get a bost to even the field, either by improving the still abysmall AI and skill bars of Hench or by allowing 7 Heros.


All that being said I don't expect anything to happen untill well after GW2 is launched.

My prerogative is to play GW solo - you told me to go elsewhere and think that Diablo II is the place.

I will quote the box again: "Join with friends or play solo with a band of skillful henchman" (emphasis mine). Note that playing solo (totally replacing players with AI) is part of the design of the game and is an intended play style.

Then I rather suggest you don't tell people to go play another game if you don't mean it. GW is meant to be played solo - all the boxes and the manuals state it and Anet has been adamant that this is the case too. It is also meant to be played with human groups and it is also meant to be played in teams of AI and humans. It was meant to be played the way *you* wanted and they are all just as valid as another.

You aren't remotely arguing from a player's view - you are arguing *your* view and making grand proclamations that this is The Way Things Are. Until you become the God of Gamers and can force all of us to your will you have no ability to make those statements. Obviously many player's point of view is that they will not PUG no matter what (pretty much mine - I do from time to time but it isn't when I want to play the game as much as when I want to goof off with other people).

Sure, but I want soloing without grind - seems GW is a pretty dang good fit to me. In fact it is the *only* option out there right now. Since no grind and soloing have always been an integral part of the game it seems I chose well. Since you don't like that too much you didn't choose to well.

I'm in my 30's - I work and don't have much time to game. I can't spend the time to get said good PUG. Said failure is totally frustrating. If I want frustrating I can go back to work. Nor do I have time to play at peak hours as I am working (most of my gaming is in the 4:00-6:00 am time frame). You can can kiss all of us like that good buy and there quite a few. GW allows me to play, it allows you to play, and it allows ones that have a different style than either of us to play. I like that quite a bit - that is what GW has always been about and soloing is a large part of that.

I've been told to go elsewhere a number of times because my play style doesn't fit what someone else wants - the grand thing is that GW was designed for people like me so I say those who don't like the game need to go elsewhere. I like the game and have no need to tell anyone who is currently liking the games design that they are doing it wrong and to go elsewhere. Solo, group, mix it up, whatever just don't tell me I'm playing the game wrong - especially when I am playing 100% one of the main ways they originally (and still do) envisioned

They are meant to be equal - neither is the "alternative" to the other. It has been that way since the original design documents.

Fortunately for us Anet has weighed in quite a number of times (not the least of which is in the boxes and manuals) and solo play is quite valid and one of the main ways they envisioned playing. They don't want *any* of the styles to die (and is, rightly or wrongly, the reason they are not going to have 7 heroes any time soon). They will not do anything that kills soloing *or* grouping if they think it will do so.

Even in PvP you now have hero battles so one can even solo it. That it isn't generally considered fun has more to do with the implementation, but even there they intended one to be able solo it. RA is only loosely team oriented as you can't (well, I guess not supposed to be able too) make a team. It isn't until TA that you get actual team oriented PvP.

That's fine - many players are the opposite. Both sides are considered "A" rank styles of play. Therefore you can play your game and have fun and I can play mine and have fun. Unfortunately some (such as yourself) want to dictate to me how I have fun and I can't see how you think you can remotely do so any more than I can tell you that you are not having fun and are doing it wrong when you PUG.

I think 7 heroes will eventually happen but it will be a long ways off. Basically until the player base gets small enough they pretty much have too (most likely after the release of GW2). I don't think Ursan will be nerfed either - it is one of the few things that really promotes grouping even though it demotes build variety.

Nonesense. I may be direct at times but that's far from being a troll. All I am saying is that GW is an online game that is played with other people. You want it to be like a rpg which is defeating it's own purpose. Now as I mentioned it is possible to do the vast majority of the game with heroes and henchies so Anet have already done a lot for people who want to be able to do so.

The whole point of games like this is that you can play with other people and therefore I think you'd be better of playing an rpg. Maybe a solution for you is a stand alone version of the game for single players but you don't need to play online for that and why would Anet want to do that?

It just seems ironic that you play an online game and complain that you have to play with other people to get some stuff done. It's like going to the store and ask them for a strawberry cake and then come back to complain that it doesn't taste like banana's or something.

Explain that to the other guy. He is complaining about having to play with other people. You just proved my point so thanks for that.

Unfortunately Anet has also stated that 7 heroes goes against their "developer vision".

Ironically i cant think of ANYTHING that flys in the face of their "developer vision" more than bear.

Yes, and they seem to ignore the fact that their developer vision is already dead. The PUG players themselves killed it.

Regina posted some info about seven-heroes issue:

Seems like 7-hero issue is not being pursued because they don't people to actually implement it should they decide to do so.

Still not time to get hopes high.

interesting...i was just thinking about this again today....was in gadds trying to get a group together for some HM and yeah getting a group sucked. what terrible is that thats a relatively popular (new) area.....i cant seem to find anyone in prophesies doing HM missions anymore :s

If this was implemented it would probably finish off the already dying pick up groups (grouping)

Although having said that, i really think it is about time this was added because getting a group for almost anything these days is very, very hard...

+1 Signature.

The day we get GW2 and GW1 becomes a ghost town is the day we get 7 heroes.