Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer in a day - What's A-Net going to do about it? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Oct 2007 at 04:05 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Simple, it's the amount of effort needed. In the end, isn't effort what this thread is all about?

When Magellan set out to achieve the Terran Grandmaster Circumnavigator title, all he had was a rusty sextant and compass that always pointed northish. Would we still celebrate Magellan Day on April 27 if he just looked up his route on Google Earth?

If Columbus discovered America using modern satnav, would it be nearly as impressive?

The OP is saying how this makes the game so much more easier since we have these modded maps, when it's actually been like this since cartography titles were first invented. The amount of effort this reduces is soooo minimal that it's nearly laughable. I just no longer have to switch between windows and holding with my fingertips certain points on the map so I can compare.

Karyuu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

Kahlifownia

Roses of the Moonlight Sigil [RoMS]

W/Rt

30 Oct 2007 at 04:08 - 122

@Esan: You're insinuating that other people should find your achievements impressive, through your comparison with Magellan and Columbus

I don't care about impressing other people, just like I don't care about wasting dozens of hours meticulously comparing screenshots in Photoshop. Why do you?

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

30 Oct 2007 at 04:10 - 123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

I don't care about impressing other people, just like I don't care about wasting dozens of hours meticulously comparing screenshots in Photoshop. Why do you?

Personal goals. They should stay personal.

JDStrider

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Galveston, TX

Rayvens Elite Dragons

30 Oct 2007 at 04:11 - 124

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

When Magellan set out to achieve the Terran Grandmaster Circumnavigator title, all he had was a rusty sextant and compass that always pointed northish. Would we still celebrate Magellan Day on April 27 if he just looked up his route on Google Earth?

If Columbus discovered America using modern satnav, would it be nearly as impressive?

Wow...that quote has to be the funniest thing I've heard in a while. It is a completely faulty comparison... all Magellan used was a rusty sextant and compass because it was the only resources available at the time. The same applies here--what's wrong with using the mod to help find unmapped areas? Its just another resource you can use, the same as flipping between a photoshopped map and the in game map. You still have to put forth the effort to go to the areas and make sure you completely map what you need. I don't see what is wrong with taking full advantage of all the resources available to you.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

30 Oct 2007 at 04:11 - 125

Quote:

I don't care about impressing other people, just like I don't care about wasting dozens of hours meticulously comparing screenshots in Photoshop. Why do you?

I don't. And I don't have GMC and never will. I don't wuv walls that much, really.

I'm simply pointing out that there is a difference between layer differencing in Gimp and using a carto-made-easy mod. It's all well and good to say that the difference is minimal, but X Joe Sixpack X does not want to learn how to use Gimp. Or whatever.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Oct 2007 at 04:12 - 126

I will say that I'd be pretty damned impressed if someone was able to get their title without once looking at their map. But I've yet to hear someone insane enough to do so.

Not only that, they wouldn't be able to prove it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

I'm simply pointing out that there is a difference between layer differencing in Gimp and using a carto-made-easy mod. It's all well and good to say that the difference is minimal, but X Joe Sixpack X does not want to learn how to use Gimp. Or whatever.

Of course there is a difference. Now, is it very minimal? Yes.

And you don't even need to learn how to use Gimp, you just need the image file.

Jeremy Untouchable

Wow Stole my freetime

Join Date: Mar 2006

Arkansas

None

W/E

30 Oct 2007 at 04:49 - 127

QQ more...good god folks, you are just pissed b/c someone did there title a easyer way....Who cares. it dosnt have any affect on how you play. this reminds me of the "OMG they are killing the rares" Your E-peen is smaller because someone else did something the easyer way. "but i bowled a strike with my eyed closed" "why cant everyone bowl with there eyes closed" "those guys with both eyes open got a strike in only 8 trys" "it took me 56 trys" "wah" "ban them from the bowling alley"

/rant off

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

30 Oct 2007 at 04:58 - 128

I don't think it is feasible to say that alt-tabbing to check someone elses map or a photoshopped comparison, and using the mod is completely different. The difference is alt-tab and nothing more.

Every time you reference a map, search for a location of a boss, look at armour on the wiki or any other resource available you are taking advantage of someone else's achievements. This information came from somewhere didn't it?

Players are constantly looking for new ways to make tasks easier - it's human nature. But taking advantage of someone else's experience is rarely called "cheating". If we had to learn to do everything ourselves from scratch all the time society wouldn't move forward.
For games we develop fan sites with information for less experienced players - we lend each other a hand because we don't see the sense in everyone having to do it the hard way if we don't have to. Yet these sites offer EXACTLY THE SAME information as the mod. The difference as I've said before is only alt-tab.

Does it (the mod) cheapen the title? To me, no, I can get the same service outside of the game and apparently that isn't considered cheating. Regardless of what resource you use, mapping requires a lot of killing and a lot of edge walking and can at times be tedious. Having a mod does not change this.

Here's some food for thought: the more people achieving the title of LC the better. Why? It gives us for time in UW and FoW, and I certainly wouldn't consider that a bad thing.

I like Mercenary's idea, it would save a LOT of frustration, but I do wonder how difficult it would be to implement.

jezz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/

30 Oct 2007 at 06:31 - 129

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karyuu

To who? I don't care if you got Legendary Cartographer. I also don't care if you got God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals. I care if I get those titles, and you should care if you get those titles. But don't try to make me care about what you did or didn't do, and how much effort you did or did not put into something.

nicely said and agreed

CHunterX

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Washington

W/E

30 Oct 2007 at 06:34 - 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

...I did the Cartographer titles because I enjoyed being an explorer...

Thread over. You had fun. Some people don't having fun grinding map edges over and over. The people who use the mods still had to grind along the edges to get Grandmaster, still had to get into Jade Quarry by waiting for 16 people, wait for the Boardwalk, and research glitches like Eredon Terrace. But if you honestly think that doing any of these titles means you are skilled, you are sadly mistaken.

Lady Ana Stacia

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Germany

Beware of our Temper [BooT]

Me/

30 Oct 2007 at 06:34 - 131

Honestly after having used the mod for the last .3% I needed in Elona vs Comparing the maps from Cantha and Tyria in photoshop there really isn't a difference. It is the same thing. Biggest difference your not spending the time straining your eyes constantly. Same with using the map checkers here on the forums, it just saves time not having to wait on someone else to check your maps.

Does it make the title easier heck no, you still have to do all the work for it.

holababe

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2006

Goon Squad [LLJK]

Mo/

30 Oct 2007 at 06:53 - 132

You can get GMC this easily now

I'm off to download the .tpf and explore Cantha!

Mad King Corn

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2006

30 Oct 2007 at 06:59 - 133

In my opinion, attempting to get the cartography titles without the mod is not only insane, but it's the biggest time waste in the game. The fog makes it impossible to tell where you need to go, and the idea of spending months grinding and scraping is nuts. Even with the mod, you still have to scrape, and scrape alot, and the mod is not 100% perfect either, it's just a visual aid. With the mod I went from 92% to 100% in several weeks. It takes time to enter mission areas, especially high end areas and scrape every square inch of every wall using the mod, in fact, there were several areas where I had to go into several explorable areas just to find out the right place to get a tiny piece of the map. Some areas, I had to go back and forth many times just to land on that one single pixel to get a piece. This is something that even with the cartography mod takes a whole lot of time and patience. If someone said that they did it in one day with the cartography mod, I would have to say they are telling a lie and trying to start trouble. The last 5% of the titles are a bitch to map even with the mod. To those of you that did get the cartography title without the mod, my hat goes off to you, you are either an elite game god or a very lucky person with an awefull lot of time to waste.

Iuris

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Crazy ducks from the Forest

W/

30 Oct 2007 at 08:22 - 134

I disagree with the OP's idea, even if it does have Gaile's backing. To illustrate why:

"I got two rank 5 EotN allegiance titles the hard way, before the handbooks were upgraded (and posted the armor details on the wiki - early). I DEMAND the handbooks be restored to their earlier way of functioning because now everyone can effortlessly get to those same title ranks, and it devalues my Monk's Monument armor and the Paragon's Norn armor."

The logic is obvious, but is not automatically valid.

The texmod only allows the player to see where the missing areas are. The player must still DO all he needs to get the title - must still fight their way to the missing bits, must still patrol around a bit, must still have "unlocked" the areas by completing the storyline.

Another point is that the game itself already includes a system that performs the same function - the world map itself. Texmod only enhances the world map's existing function. As said before - the same results can be achieved by comparing the map with a clear map using a suitable 3rd party utility.

In the end: texmod does not eliminate necessary effort - it only eliminates unnecessary effort. I see it as a legitimate tool.

Abnaxus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Europe

Keepers of Chaos

30 Oct 2007 at 09:15 - 135

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

REAL Cartographers amongst us will know what this entails ... day after day going through each mission and explorable area, slowing scraping every inch of every wall. Waiting for the boardwalk to open to get 0.5%. Researching glitches like Eredon Terrace. Partying with someone that has 'Mayhem in the Market' to get into Vizunah Local. Organising 16 people to get into Jade Quarry together. Reading Livingston's cartography guide and picking off the points one by one, in some zones.

Well, the two things you mentioned can be considered "cheats" to some extent.

You didn't get the title only with your skill, you needed an external aid, provided by information gathered on a website.

Basically everyone does this. I have Legendary GMC with my ranger and I got it comparing fully explored maps.
I've never installed texmod (the only idea of a possible ban or some malicious code that could steal my pw is more than enough to discourage me from using any 3rd party sw), but I don't see ANY difference between comparing maps and using simplified textures.
Both systems tell you what you miss and where you need to go.

The GMC title is very badly designed, the fog system is crap, Cantha is the worst because you need some PvP areas which require 16 human players to enter, and I can understand that players have designed a tool that helps players to overcome such evident flaws.

About your friends teasing you and your proposal to remove their title ... LOL how old are you?
If you're below 12, it's understandable that you whine to your A.net mommy, if you're older ...

ryanryanryan0310

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

Scars Meadows [SMS]

30 Oct 2007 at 09:24 - 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy untouchable

QQ more...good god folks, you are just pissed b/c someone did there title a easyer way....Who cares. it dosnt have any affect on how you play. this reminds me of the "OMG they are killing the rares" Your E-peen is smaller because someone else did something the easyer way. "but i bowled a strike with my eyed closed" "why cant everyone bowl with there eyes closed" "those guys with both eyes open got a strike in only 8 trys" "it took me 56 trys" "wah" "ban them from the bowling alley"

/rant off

What he said!/signed

Also alot cartographers have been getting help with the map overlap technique. This way just save's you from minimizing the game window.

QQ less.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Oct 2007 at 09:31 - 137

I used texmod after I were stuck on 98%.

I dont think its cheating, the last few percent is hard enough. I'm sure that people that got legendary carto without using mods should understand that.

Mineria

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

Denmark

Dragonslayers Of The [Mist]

W/Mo

30 Oct 2007 at 09:46 - 138

Take another point of view.
Play a game like it is intended to be from the creators of the game.

What I think about mods. Since GW does not have any official mod support I just don't use them, and I like it.
This caused by WoW's modding scene.
There is a huge difference in doing instances without a wiki and all the mods compared to using a wiki and mods.

And the only one you might be cheating, might be yourself.
But neither me or others are the ones to judge that.

Respect to those though, who got this title without any outside help.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

30 Oct 2007 at 09:53 - 139

I find it mindboogling when people say theese words in gaming forum and mean them seriously:

* (you hafta) Work (for something imaginary)
* Achievent (which is totally pointless)
* Pride (in playing game)

ops argument is funny, first he does it wrong (4 weeks of cartoing cantha? even if he walhugged area a day, it would have been faster ...). he admitedly uses exploits like eredons and he actually thinks that titles have value. moreso, he considers entering outposts based on glitch and entering pvp match work.

as author of the first (now obsoleted by better ones) cartho mod, i say:

/point
/ha-ha

Saraphim

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Hand of Omega [WHO]

E/

30 Oct 2007 at 09:56 - 140

I'd love to know the percentage of people using photoshop to compare maps (apparantly not frowned upon by anyone) who actually own a legitimate copy of said software.

I can't quite believe the amount of fuss this has generated, or that it warrants 'looking at' when it is not a game breaking issue, nor does it benefit anyone in any way other than e-peen wagging. While there's people advertising "running A Time For Heroes 2k NM 4K HM" in the Central Transfer Chamber along with all the other 'short cuts via paid services' , this seems pretty insignificant to me.

Hey tell ya what, how's about we insist that the Drunkard and Sweet Tooth titles should only be attainable by drops you pick up, and any items you buy from other players explode in the trade window? No? Thought not.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

30 Oct 2007 at 10:01 - 141

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Simple, it's the amount of effort needed. In the end, isn't effort what this thread is all about?

When Magellan set out to achieve the Terran Grandmaster Circumnavigator title, all he had was a rusty sextant and compass that always pointed northish. Would we still celebrate Magellan Day on April 27 if he just looked up his route on Google Earth?

If Columbus discovered America using modern satnav, would it be nearly as impressive?

heheh Columbus discovered America using Chinese map, didn't you hear!

It would have been The Chinese who are the first terrain Grandmaster lol

runs away.
Happy Days!

PS: People need to have pride in everything they do, unless its some criminal activities.

Mineria

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

Denmark

Dragonslayers Of The [Mist]

W/Mo

30 Oct 2007 at 10:04 - 142

Quote:

I find it mindboogling when people say theese words in gaming forum and mean them seriously:

* (you hafta) Work (for something imaginary)
* Achievent (which is totally pointless)
* Pride (in playing game)

Cool for you.

But the /point /ha-ha isn't.
People play games for different reasons, there isn't a stereo type.

Saraphim

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Hand of Omega [WHO]

E/

30 Oct 2007 at 10:07 - 143

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

heheh Columbus discovered America using Chinese map, didn't you hear!

It would have been The Chinese who are the first terrain Grandmaster lol

runs away.
Happy Days!

PS: People need to have pride in everything they do, unless its some criminal activities.

Lol ! ONOEZ Colombus wus a cheater !!!!

Mineria

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

Denmark

Dragonslayers Of The [Mist]

W/Mo

30 Oct 2007 at 10:10 - 144

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

I'd love to know the percentage of people using photoshop to compare maps (apparantly not frowned upon by anyone) who actually own a legitimate copy of said software.

Not many I guess, but that does have nothing to do with playing the game.

For those who want to use a free legal alternative: paint.net

Saraphim

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Hand of Omega [WHO]

E/

30 Oct 2007 at 10:38 - 145

You're quite right it is irrelevant with respect to playing the game, but those complaining that using Texmod is against a EULA for a £25 game might want to think about the EULA of a £500 piece of software (although there is of course a stripped down version of PS as well that's much cheaper) to compare maps.

Also, another good alternative is GIMP

cyberjanet

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

The Netherlands

Rich Mahogany

N/

30 Oct 2007 at 10:39 - 146

Well, I'm on 80 something percent of Tyria. I know I haven't been to Little Falls but that's not going to do the remaining nearly 20 per cent for me.

But there's no way I'm even going to Google to find out about this mod. Some things are a personal challenge.

If you got the title by using the mod, what are you proving? Nothing. It's like using a computer to solve your Scrabble moves. So you win. So what?

NeHoMaR

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Oct 2007 at 10:44 - 147

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Actually, as Galie has already said textmod won't get you banned. They just don't support it if it "blows up your fridge."

Quote:

Originally Posted by jezz

you dont know what you are talking about...plain and simple..

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Texmod

i would suggest reading above link before stating your opinion again on this matter

I was talking in a generalized way, note the "ANY external tool" part. And I don't use ANY external tool, including TexMod.

OK, I am a little paranoid, but that's my problem.

electrofish

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

30 Oct 2007 at 10:49 - 148

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

I can't quite believe the amount of fuss this has generated, or that it warrants 'looking at' when it is not a game breaking issue, nor does it benefit anyone in any way other than e-peen wagging. While there's people advertising "running A Time For Heroes 2k NM 4K HM" in the Central Transfer Chamber along with all the other 'short cuts via paid services' , this seems pretty insignificant to me.

From A-net's point of view, OP's problem with devalued game experience might actually BE something for them to look into. As they're the ones that put the titles in place exactly to give people a delusional (personal opinion here) sense of pride, so that the lifetime of this game product would increase and perhaps make players more loyal (higher switching cost?)

As with the OP's argument, I find it funny how he finds mods unacceptable yet deeming exploits and the use of online resources (which is basically the same as the mods) honourable actions.

The comparison with CS source and steam banning people who use it to A-net is also invalid. Mods are banned by valve because it breaks a leveled playingfield as you rightly said and A-net do that too, not in the cartographer's case because it doesn't affect anything else apart from "some" of the player's ego. You can be sure that A-net would pounce on any other exploits on titles that actually effect the game play i.e. LB farm?

Steep

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2006

DOE (Dragons of Eisengard)

W/E

30 Oct 2007 at 10:52 - 149

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

software and Valve give you a lifetime ban without appeal. So, how different REALLY is installing a cartography aid to putting an aimbot into your Steam client?

Aimbot not only affects you, but the people you are playing with. You are able to kill OTHER people easily.

The cartography Aid only affects the user, it dont affect anyone else.

william1975

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Dragons of Torment (DOA)

Me/

30 Oct 2007 at 10:58 - 150

I thought the american indians discovered America? Or are they not included in humanity now? I also thought that the vikings went there around 1000AD

Comparing maps is no problem, and i dont see it as cheating to be able to do that, however by the specific rules of Anet you shouldn't use mods. If anet were to introduce the mod themselves then i don;t see it as being a problem.

I don;t feel my achivment is any less because others use it, but just because its not harmful to others and is useful doesn't make it ok

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

30 Oct 2007 at 11:08 - 151

So some people are too poor in their judgement and thinking to be able to compare maps to find the extra spots for the 100% they needed....
Big deal. More fool them. It certainly doesn't subtract from the experience of those like us who did it the old fashioned way....

It certainly isn't something to cry about.
The day I care that much about what someone else is doing in game is the day I shouldn't be playing it any more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saraphim

You're quite right it is irrelevant with respect to playing the game, but those complaining that using Texmod is against a EULA for a £25 game might want to think about the EULA of a £500 piece of software (although there is of course a stripped down version of PS as well that's much cheaper) to compare maps.

Pfah.
I don't know who Adobe think they're kidding.... but Photoshop isn't worth what they charge for it, irrespective of it leading the market...
I use Paint Shop Pro 9... personally. Last version made by Jasc before Corel officially took them over and screwed up the program. Cost me pocket change compared to Photoshop... and I've had it for years. Transferred the whole program from one computer to another as I've switched over the years.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

30 Oct 2007 at 11:22 - 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Pfah.
I don't know who Adobe think they're kidding.... but Photoshop isn't worth what they charge for it, irrespective of it leading the market...
I use Paint Shop Pro 9... personally. Last version made by Jasc before Corel officially took them over and screwed up the program. Cost me pocket change compared to Photoshop... and I've had it for years. Transferred the whole program from one computer to another as I've switched over the years.

Use photoshop for serious stuff, then switch to alternative program (that is not corel photopaint). You are in for some serious headache.

Photshop gui is one of fastest to use and most streamlined for its job. Workflows in it are perfect.

Other software might have identical functionality, but when fluent gimp user does task several times slower than ps user, you start to see real difference.

those X00$ are worth it when they double/triple productivity of those people in your company.

Its only stupid to pay hunderds of dolars if all you are going to do with it is to create new lolcats.

---

btw: that "concerned about 50$ eula and unconcerned about 500$ piracy" thing is genuine /winthread :]

seut

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europa

30 Oct 2007 at 11:31 - 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

this thread will be included in this week's community summary

Sad to see that a personal whine thread gets attention, but longer threads about real problems like ridiculous grind titles being character based are ignored (changing treasure hunt & wisdom titles to account wide is a possible task for a capable programmer to complete in short time and it would actually have a benefit to every player who has more than 2characters).

Whine thread gets attention, while valid concerns slip under the radar..

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

30 Oct 2007 at 11:50 - 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Okay then. What mod are you referring to that does this? Because it is certainly not any of the cartography mods.

Im just going by what the OPer stated. He said that a mod exists to highlight those areas you need to uncover. That sounds like cartog to me!

Ive personally never used it so I dont know exactly how it works.

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

30 Oct 2007 at 11:57 - 155

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Use photoshop for serious stuff, then switch to alternative program (that is not corel photopaint). You are in for some serious headache.

Photshop gui is one of fastest to use and most streamlined for its job. Workflows in it are perfect.

Other software might have identical functionality, but when fluent gimp user does task several times slower than ps user, you start to see real difference.

those X00$ are worth it when they double/triple productivity of those people in your company.

Its only stupid to pay hunderds of dolars if all you are going to do with it is to create new lolcats.

Not in the case I'm dealing with.
Though Paint Shop Pro 9 is doomed to age due to the fact that it is a specific version and technology continues to advance... it is still safe to say that pretty much anything I can do in Photoshop, I can do faster and more efficiently in Paint Shop Pro.

There is only one exception to this: 3rd Party Plug-Ins.
Photoshop has quite a lot of mods made by other companies to increase its functionality... extra filter plug-ins and whatnot. Paint Shop Pro doesn't have nearly as many of these...

As it stands though, I'd take Paint Shop Pro 9 over Vanilla Photoshop CS2 any day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

Sad to see that a personal whine thread gets attention, but longer threads about real problems like ridiculous grind titles being character based are ignored (changing treasure hunt & wisdom titles to account wide is a possible task for a capable programmer to complete in short time and it would actually have a benefit to every player who has more than 2characters).

Whine thread gets attention, while valid concerns slip under the radar..

What the heck?
Gaile posted in this thread?
Gaile paid attention to the pointless whining about other people having things easy.... and said it would be addressed?
I'd give more credit to the freakin idiots calling for hair-stylists than this thread of complete pointlessness! A-Net seriously need to get their priorities straight.

Etta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mancland, British Empire

30 Oct 2007 at 11:59 - 156

@Fish. The mod converted the uncover area in to red cloud or something, to make it easier to see.

@Soticoto, you can't compare Photoshop to Paint Shop. That's like comparing Lotus to a donkey.

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

30 Oct 2007 at 12:02 - 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

@Soticoto, you can't compare Photoshop to Paint Shop. That's like comparing Lotus to a donkey.

Based on what?
Unmodded, the two do practically the same things.
Paint Shop Pro just does it more easily and rationally.
Photoshop has its metaphorical head stuck up its metaphorical arse and complicates issues..... and has Plug-Ins.

Big deal... not.

Saraphim

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Hand of Omega [WHO]

E/

30 Oct 2007 at 12:03 - 158

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

I'd give more credit to the freakin idiots calling for hair-stylists than this thread of complete pointlessness! A-Net seriously need to get their priorities straight.

Well while I'd argue ad nauseum on the benefits of a suite of programmes that sync together so beautifully as Adobe's latest versions it's off-topic so I'll resist, except to say that for a working professional there is no better alternative, and while yes it is expensive the workflow alone justifies the expense if you have to use it for a living. Plugins? Don't use 'em. Filters and plugins are for people who want to churn out stuff that looks identical to a ton of other dross out there.

On topic I agree with your sentiments entirely about his thread. There are many many things that demand attention far more than this.

elektra_lucia

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

England

Leteci is [sexy]

Mo/

30 Oct 2007 at 12:04 - 159

Some people would not buy photoshop if it was half the price it is, with that in mind those who DO buy it, probably have to have it and don't want an illegal version. For a good artist, photoshop actually is worth the money. For all the millions who got it illegally, they just aided the price going up. You can't logically say photoshop isn't worth the money. There would have been reasons as to why it is the cost it is.

If you want to know how much something is worth, try selling it.
If you want to know how much something costs, try buying it.

I don't think photoshop made adobe go bust

.

Quote:

As it stands though, I'd take Paint Shop Pro 9 over Vanilla Photoshop CS2 any day.

Lol.

As for textmod and such, I won't ever run the things. Simply because I know how easy it is to put key loggers and such in them. You only need some highly respected, half intelligent person to make something looking like he is doing a 'good' thing, only to have everyone's passwords and account information. I also have the view that nothing clientside should be changed in a game :]. Anything that you have, which someone else doesn't is unfair.

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

30 Oct 2007 at 12:14 - 160

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Some people would not buy photoshop if it was half the price it is, with that in mind those who DO buy it, probably have to have it and don't want an illegal version. For a good artist, photoshop actually is worth the money. For all the millions who got it illegally, they just aided the price going up. You can't logically say photoshop isn't worth the money. There would have been reasons as to why it is the cost it is.

If you want to know how much something is worth, try selling it.
If you want to know how much something costs, try buying it.

I don't think photoshop made adobe go bust

.

Touché.
Adobe wouldn't be still making it if they weren't selling it.
But then I take it that they practically started all that nonsense themselves... They set the standard and have been therefore allowed to set the price to ridiculous extremes.... knowing that desperate artists and the like are going to pay that much.

And it totally isn't the point..... but I'd appreciate it if I could find someone.... ANYONE.... who can show me things that Photoshop can do that Paint Shop Pro cannot. Admittedly, my Photoshop experience is limited to various shareware versions along the way.... whereas I've been legally using Paint Shop Pro for YEARS and have quite considerable experience pratting around with that program [admittedly, I'm more prone to playing with Raster graphics than Vector graphics, so that might make a difference]...

As regards relevance to this joke of a thread though.... Paint Shop Pro is more than enough to difference-map or even layer-flick and compare maps without Texmod help. Don't need hundreds of quid worth of software for that.