Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer in a day - What's A-Net going to do about it?

QFT.
Our studio just got the CS3 set in, Photoshop, Illustrator etc. Pricey yes, but after awhile it'll pay for itself. Plus the company paid for it anyway, which is even better.

Oh.... I forgot to mention this.
I do have a version of Photoshop on my comp.... but only for one reason:
Texturing.
I don't actually use it for graphical capabilities.... but for the NVidia plug-in that allowed me to save files in a very particular format ideal for texture-files, and that same plug-in was incompatible with Paint Shop Pro.
Some might consider it ironic that when I texture I have both open and do all the fancy graphical stuff in PSP .... but.... meh. Irony is my middle name.

Ah if you mean the ability to save out files for gaming formats that's another matter. IIRC I had to use a plugin to save dds files out a while back. My apologies if I interpreted you wrong. I was thinking more of the get photo + add poster edges filter crowd.

Gaile,

Usually I would not comment to postings by A-net representatives, but in this case I think I need to add some thoughts on this.

I am one of the players that in the past used to compare maps for others here on guru, on the Tyrian forum. I even have my own sticky on Tyrian exploration, so I think I'm able to say some things on this subject.

There is no real difference in a map compare done by a human player (here on guru or selfcompare with graphics program) or a feature like Texmod.
Both would point out the missing spots.
The only difference is time, someone has to take screenshot, compare (takes longer when done by someone else) and go out exploring.
The .03% is a non-issue.

Texmod does give an 'advantage' to players that are on lower % uncovered, because most people comparing would not even bother to compare those maps (the original Tyrian requests would need Tyrian Master Cartographer for compares).
This might give advantage, but one has to consider that people start thinking about their first exploration title when they are on high % anyway.
There are very few people below 90% that are stuck, is my experience.
So I think most people would not even bother using Texmod (or other comparing tools) when exploring the first time.

That brings us to people who explore for on a second character.
Those should already know the drill, hit the wall, circle area and cross at the end. Start exploring early in the game.
This is as fast as doing a Texmod compare and when done right, a player does not miss a single spot.

I have had several discussions on Texmod in my guild and always use the "Hades compare" (my IGN, I still do compares for guildies if they need it) to the Texmod feature.
I still fail to see why Texmod would be a larger problem than any manual map compares.

MMORPG's are so often about time. Time to grind, time to walk some place. It's an advantage, otherwise you wouldn't run it.

Aye... well I know the feeling.
I've had a few graphical filters here and there along the way myself.... but more often than not they just seem like lazy copypaste options for people who don't know how to achieve the same effect manually.
For what it is worth.... most such effects I CAN duplicate in Paint Shop Pro .... though not in Photoshop, due to my reduced experience there.... so I don't need those plug-ins...

But the DDS save plug-in is totally essential to me.
I haven't used it so much recently as I used to.... but I once was an active part of the Morrowind modding community... albeit with only two released mods.... and I made extensive use of DDS files there. I did similar things for a while with clothing products for IMVU .... but my girlfriend doesn't approve of that so I don't do it so much any more.

The crazy thing is that the DDS NVidia plug-in was SUPPOSED to work with Paint Shop Pro.... but it didn't for me. I could only get it to work with Photoshop (which required that I get Photoshop from some dodgy Russian disc that my former flatmate owned). As such I now need both open to do any texturing. Most folks might not think much of PSP... but with experience a LOT can be wrung out of it.

Wow, what a thread. I'm really surprised that Gaile chose the side that she did, but I'm guessing that's just because she doesn't know all the facts.

Is using textmod to gain a cartography title cheating?

I really don't know the answer to that one. I think ArenaNet is the only one that can truly answer that question. However if textmod is ruled to be cheating then so must a lot of other things. Textmod is a shortcut showing you exactly where your map is lacking. Those of you who feel that textmod cartography is cheating, how do you feel on these other subjects?

- a player that posts his map on the forum and gets another player to put little red circles on it where he's missing spots.
- using photoshop to compare maps
- using Wiki to find exactly where an Elite skill can be capped.
- using Wiki to find exactly where that perfect 20/20 collectable curses staff can be obtained.
- using Wiki to know exactly where the drops are for the above collector.
- Posting your newbie mesmer build on the forums and asking for help perfecting it for TA.
- Using Wiki to find the perfect build to defeat Doppleganger/Rotscale/Bison Tourney/Ice Griffon/Abaddon/Shiro
- Using Wiki to discover mission/bonus shortcuts (Gyala Hatchery backroad, Dunes of Despair Traversal trick)

All of those examples use the experience of other players to achieve a personal goal. How many of you that are whining about the textmod trick used one or more of the above aids? Hmmm?

Ok, off-topic, but I gotta ask. What the heck is the Eredon Terrace glitch??? I've unfogged everyplace around Eredon Terrace and didn't use a glitch.

It sounds to me like you are comparing a knowledgeable view of one product with an ignorant view of another product and then trying to be a salesman. It is not really a good comparison.
I didn't do any of the above and I think textmod is wrong.

I think the word for what you're talking about is, "jealous." That's what's at the center of most, "moral outrage."

EDIT: just saw Gail's thread so this goes for her and the OP
==============================================

To the OP, this program is not different from the threads here on guru where people used to post their 98%, 99% maps to allow others to compare them and then circle the spots that are missing.

This program is just eliminating the human help that is all.

All of us used these threads to get help from others, I used the thread here on Guru to get my 100% Elona since I was stuck on 99.1% and for the life of me I could not find the remaining .9% and thanks to Livingston's and Silent Vex help I got my 100%
Once they circled the spots I'm missing I just ran to them same as what the OP said happened to his friends.

Speaking as someone who was once (for about 2 days) in a Guild that was in the Alliance that owned Eredon Terrace...

... It is an area in the sectioned off part at the back (i.e. you need to have access to get through the gate) where you can get behind part of the scenery and basically run rampant in the mountains.... sorta like that bit in Talus Chute on the East Side.

It is possible to get right to the edge of the map and find the "line" where the world ends.


Now I think about it I was ridiculously lucky to get access to that place.

On a slightly easier note.... I also used the Dunes of Despair corpse-teleport trick along with the herohench flag trick to safely map out that mission area.... and likewise used the same trick to get to Rurik's path in the Frost Gate mission (which uncovers a large chunk). Couldn't manage the one in the Wilds though unfortunately.
Honestly... I find tricks like these great fun.
There is another small area in the Northern Shiverpeaks (old Northern; not GW:EN) where you can similarly run along a mountain ridge.... but I can't remember where precisely it was any more. That was one that I found myself by grinding the walls, rather than being told about it.

I can't really say much about PSP as I've never used it for any length of time.

/sorry for derailing the thread a bit. My point was mostly a semantic (and somewhat petty) poke about the complaints that one form of 'cheating' (comparing maps) was somehow more acceptable than another (using Texmod), particularly given that I suspect that a proportion of people using one programme without paying for it are bitching that another group are using a eula breaking* method to achieve the same end. Which I find hypocritical.




* One which Arena.net have not exactly endorsed, but certainly haven't threatened to ban anyone over and in fact you can find links and references to on the official wiki.

I like this post!

And Texmod isn't perfect. After a week of trying to get the last .2% with texmod and failing I still paid someone to spot the last .2% for me. Do I feel less of a person because I didn't play it 'your' way? Nope. I did what I needed to to achieve my goal. You needed to do things differently to achieve your goal.

Well I'm going to sell my soul on ebay and buy 64,800,000 gold so I can get phoenix on my second account. I do what I need to achieve my goal at any cost. .

Wait... Maybe I won't sell my soul, I will download a bot to droks farm or something? :].

The "challenge" or "task" isn't in just unhighlighting the areas, it's exploring those areas with those characters. The mods do not give you any bonus percantges to how much you've uncovered whatsoever. A person still has to go over every nook and cranny before he's given the full and maxed title.

It is no different than what we've been doing since the first map was posted. It's just a less annoying route. There's still the time grind. That will not change.

Good luck. The human soul has become quite devalued over the last couple of centuries...a shame really....

I did Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer a bit ago. I didn't use the texmod thing because I thought it would have been cheap to. I don't mind others that do though, it's their choice and it has no effect on me.

Sheesh... of all the things Anet needs to be working on, this is actually going to get some attention?

Just to be a jerk, I'm going to start mapping today before the modding gets nerfed somehow.

An extreme exaggeration here.

Jecht Scye: Supposing you are proud of your title, and perhaps want to show it off a little in town. Then magically there is a program you can use that when you press the letter M twice, it does what you have achieved. Instantly! You don't use this program, but everyone else does. Essentially de-valuing your title.

Can you see how this would effect you?

I just realized theat the OP and many others are those guys that get mad that I decided to pay someone to run me from Ascalon to Grotto for my prestige armor instead of fighting my way thru with my 8th toon.

If ANet out and out says they don't have any issues with it, then I don't feel bad about doing it. And you can't make me feel bad for it. I've logged over 1400 hours playing GW and all of it's expansions, I think I've earned my right to take a short cut here or there if it helps keep me playing the game and buying their stuff...

As far as I know, the EULA says running is a violation. I could be wrong on this.

I smell a hint of jealousy here: "I had to work for this title, and you take the easy way out!' Sheesh, it's supposed to be a damned GAME. Quit basing your self-worth (or denigrating others) based on your e-peen.

As the OP demonstrates, GW PvE is about vanity. The gameplay is stagnant and limited, so ANet focused the game on meaningless vanity items -- titles, armors, mini-pets, weapons skins. Those things have *nothing* to do with skill or actual gameplay -- it's just window dressing on an empty game.

It is what it is. Deal with it, or play another game.

Official Guildwars wiki page on Texmod:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Texmod

Official Guildwars wiki statementon on Texmod:

I didn't ask for that link, and it's not related to what I said .

QFT.

Exactly.

Let's get rid of the Wikis, so people can't "cheat" by reading guides.

Bah, I don't even use this mod, and yet I find the OP's position to be nothing more than whiney "I worked hard, why shouldn't other people?"

As it stands now, Gaile is going to play den mother and side with people whose self-worth is tied up in what *other people* do.

Sad.

Bah. This game is nothing more than a chibby chat room for people who have digital egos. Yuck. I only hope the Bonus missions get here, so I can be done with this travesty.

I was going with the whole official statement on official site creates a loophole in the EULA for the use of Texmod.

Earlier on in this thread I said this:

And I'm speaking as someone who got 2 LGMC without using TexMod, Photoshop or paying for a map compare. Why the hell should I care if someone else has LGMC or how they got it? It's their title, their achievement. Does the fact that someone used TexMod to get theirs bother me or mean that I feel LGMC has been "devalued"? Not at all, they still have to run around to get to the spots that they missed, they are just using a more time efficient way of doing it.

That's cool but it has nothing to do with what I was saying. Look:
Which was relating to:Now this:Is not really related to that. It's about texmod.

As for this:
I already answered this question. Apologies for making it a personal answer and not something you could emphasize with. If FoW did not cost anything it would not be something to show off. Titles for some are something they are proud of but also something to show off. I hope with this information and the information I have given you before hand, or the theoretical question, you now have the answer to your question.

By the Gods, what a colossal load of excrement is posted above, mainly by people with only a casual interest, the typical Guru lurkers who love to jump in and tell people not to care about things because they themselves don't give a damn.

So let me get this right, breaking your EULA and altering your game client with a 'Cartography made easy' patch so that you can go from 60% explored to 100% on two continents over a bank holiday weekend is morally equivalent to looking reading wiki and finding out where to cap skills. What utter utter tripe. For the benefit of people that don't know what they are talking about (probably most of the people above) I will provide you with some more information. And let me be clear, it's obvious enough to see who does know what they are talking about, and that is people that have achieved GMC and/or Legendary Cartographer by traditional means, i.e. not modifying your client.

For the benefit of readers who disrespect my character, I have never compared maps using Photoshop or any layered graphical tool. I haven't needed to, because I am a thorough cartographer. Did I explore bonus areas like Rurik's road in the Frost Gate, and Eredon Terrace? Yes, because these were achievable using clever use of teleport skills (something that's already in the game withing to be used) and without cheating. I really cannot believe people that imply anyone that ever read wiki is a cheat according to my logic. That's the most ridiculous strawman I've seen on here in a while.

When mapping Tyria and Elona I never once even did an ALT-TAB. Cantha, yes, that was hard. The map graphics in the Jade Sea are so fuzzy that fog is really indistinguishable from unfog. So I alt-tabbed with Livingston's guide and spent up to 45 minutes on places like Rhea's Crater, in some cases just to get 0.1% or 0.2% here or there I didn't have.

This is my point about the mod. It quite simple makes the invisible visible. People that have an understanding of cartography above the general level of ignorance shown here will understand that normal exploring is extremely difficult, as often when an area is unfogged, the effect is barely - or not - visible on the screen. Often, you'll unfog a point and you don't get 0.1%. Or, you get 0.1% and nothing has changed visibly on the screen. And when you're comparing maps with ALT-TAB (a process that is complicated by different resolutions, image compression etc) you have to strain your naked eye. Ultimately, as I worked out, it's simpler just to go everywhere and that way you hit all the invisible points.

So, the point is that you're searching, slowly and methodically - you have to make the time by clearing the explored area of mobs. But essentially you are looking for something that is largely INVISIBLE.

You can look at your map of an Explorable Area, you're on 92.4%, then you trace the edges and 20 minutes later, you're on 92.7% but your map looks EXACTLY, EXACTLY the same. Or, you may go and scrape the walls, and spend 20 minutes to get nothing.

The point is, you are searching for something that is frequently invisible, and may not exist at all. You have to search methodically, in every area and mission of the continent, until you have clicked them all off. All of the time you must defeat the mobs in the area.

Now..... let's compare that with THIS:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3782/gw003kx8.jpg

Look specifically at how it draws and dynamically shifts BORDERS for you. All you need to do is go and run to the points where the border doesn't match the superimposed fully-explored map, and watch as the client redraws the border.

Using this mod you can:

1) See immediately which zones you have fully exploited for 0.1% and don't need to revisit... saving a huge amount of time.
2) See at a glance which edges you need to 'push out' so the orange border line matches the template.
3) See immediately when it's done and can't be done any more.
4) Rush out and get these points with a running build from the nearest outpost.... avoiding the need to build and equip a team to defeat the monsters in the area.

And what's more..... you don't even need to do any research or leave the program!

People that say this is the same as map comparing in Photoshop are talking utter nonsense. To do this in Photoshop (something I never did) requires you to take many, many screenshots of different areas and go through a lengthy manual process to align and paste layers each. It's something you would do only in desperation when you need the last 0.1% or 0.2% and can't for the life of you work out what you missed. Like I say, I was a competent and thorough cartographer, I didn't rush things, I understood that I was searching for the invisible, and I damn well flayed the skin off my right shoulder to get this title. And the obvious point anyway is that Photoshop doesn't draw you a fracking border that updates dynamically as you move. "Did I hit it yet? Did I hit it yet? Ah, got it. Right, let's map out and go and finish the next zone in 40 seconds."

Does looking up information on wiki draw you a border?

Is photoshop available by pressing U?

So let's be clear, this is not just 'Cartography made easy' it's 'Cartography made laughably easy'. It makes the invisible visible, it shows where you need to go and don't need to go, it shows when an area is completed, it eliminates the need to fight through monsters (instead running) and it updates dynamically. And you don't even have to leave the game. Press U for cheat.

It's nothing like reading wiki or comparing screenshots. Please people, stop talking nonsense. It's clear that most of the posters here don't give a damn and even less know what they are talking about.

To take the CS:Source allegory further, OK... it's not aimbot. It's wallhack. Why bother hunting down the last Counter Terrorist who is stalking you. Just look through solid walls, see where he is hiding, then go round and shoot him in the back! Logical really. Why should people play the game by the rules....these things have been invented to make life easier. People who oppose them want to take us back to the Stone Age.

Bilge.

This has ended up as a typical Guru thread where people are only too delighted to jump in and pour scorn on the person that points out something that needs to be changed.

"Hey, QQ less"
"Hey, no-one cares about you anyway"
"A stupid whine getting all this attention"
"Hey dude you suxxor"

...such posts add no value to the discussion and are the equivalent of saying "Look at me. I am stupid. I had nothing to say but posted anyway."

For Above Post: Well Said!

when a character reaches 98% on charting the map, can anet please just make all these players have 100%

happy days! and thank you if you do that! i'd be overjoyed!


by the way, I cleared another 0.1% (without texmod) !! Drytop, that makes me 1.2% short

For post below, luckily you are not anet.

NEVARRR!
Now get your face back on that wall and start grinding!

The wiki argument is much like buying a walk through for a game on a playstation. Infact in a way that is kind of cheating too. Sure it's not so big that anyone really cares, but if you think about it - it still kind of is cheating.

Torqual - I agree with your post though .

Whoops, missed the word 'running' in your orginal statement. but that's okay. I'll just refer to the official wiki:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Runner

And it seems that it does not give any impression that there is anything wrong with runners, so once again I'd go with loophole. As well I could not find anything in the EULA that would need said loophole.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/EULA/User_Agreement

Don't mind if I summarize your first post with this statement, do you? After all, it's only fair to return the compliment.

So you're suggesting that only people who did GMC "traditionally" can understand you? You're just full of grinding elitist bullshit. Even the traditionalists agree that it doesn't matter if other players use Texmod.

"what a colossal load of excrement is posted above" is a better summary.

LoL exactly what I was thinking

That is seriously the best post I have read in a long time and I applaud you for it! No sarcasm at all, im being honset!

It took you this long to realise what I was saying. I think I'm more observant than you are. I don't really need you to keep posting links at me. Please don't keep doing it?

As for the EULA It does rather imply that running is forbidden though much like the bible it is not very clear at times.

Request /Lockdown.

This thread is not only a stupid QQ-fest... but the less that Gaile gets baited into believing it significant... the better.

Okay, I'll stop. But you have agreed that implied or not neither running nor using texmod is clearly forbidden, and there for is effectivly allowed. Running has been around for years and they have at best made it harder, but don't nothing to prevent it. They eleminated it in Factions, but opened it back up again, to a point, in Nightfall. And as far as Texmod goes they have more or less said, 'go for it but if it breaks your game don't cry to us"...