Survivor title for old characters - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

15 Dec 2007 at 05:00 - 201

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

As we? I haven't seem you suggest anything, just jumped on the rant-wagon.

Your right, its not as if ive made posts suggesting and supporting this idea...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

Anyway, if this was an issue, should have been solved when the title was released. Not solved then, why would A-net care about it now.

Why didnt we get extra storage right away?
Just because something isnt done right away, does not mean it wont be done.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

15 Dec 2007 at 05:02 - 202

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

As we? I haven't seem you suggest anything, just jumped on the rant-wagon.

Anyway, if this was an issue, should have been solved when the title was released. Not solved then, why would A-net care about it now.

I feel I've stated my points, thus I leave let this train-wreck idea die and not give it the attention.

You don't have to give it attention, but Anet has to because all players are their customers, and they have to care, unless they don't want to sell the game anymore.

StelardActek

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2007

Being Little epic Heroes

E/

15 Dec 2007 at 07:33 - 203

I can't help feeling that the people opposed to this are probably unemployed and thus free to play several hours a day, every day. I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, but that's the only explanation I can think of for their insistence that rerolling is a good idea.

Not everyone can play that much. I work. I have something of a life. I can get an hour or two a day in game. True, getting level 20 doesn't take that long, but I have several maxed titles and more on the way, I have weapons and skills and armour. On the scale of things it's not that impressive, but it has taken me since Prophecies came out to get this far, because I have other things to do in a day besides play. Are you people capable of understanding how insulting it is when you suggest I reroll?

Sure, I could not do it and not get survivor on my main character, and believe me I will if things stay as they are. But I can't think of a good reason /why/ they should stay as they are, and noone has brought one up either. My original idea should be a minor change unless Guild Wars' codebase is a terrible mess, it wouldn't make the title any easier to get than it already is, and thus wouldn't effect anyone who has the title already or is going for it. So what is the problem?

And why in Effiss' name are there so many people who's primary objection seems to be that it hasn't changed yet?? How is there any logic in that??

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

15 Dec 2007 at 16:11 - 204

The only reason to opose to this is 'greed'. Like those that hate the Zaishen chest because now everyone may get an Eternal Sword.

That's more for games like WoW, you know.

Hanok Odbrook

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Tyria

Real Millennium Group

Mo/N

15 Dec 2007 at 16:19 - 205

I wonder if anyone thought that just plain old not dying would be incentive enough here. I only have one character with the Survivor title and still going, and one who I f-ed up on in the Crystal Desert. But I have not changed the way I played since Proph went live on day one, long before this title ever came into existence.

I hate dying, it's a real PITA, especially after Pre, when the DP kicks in. I'm an old school gamer back from the days when death to a character meant a very possible loss of that character at worst, and at best a big hit to attributes and the like. I have always played in a manner that meant keeping my characters alive at all costs. If keeping them alive before the title wasn't a big deal to you, why should it be now?

This is one change I can never be in favor of (like the name changing ppl want - maybe you should have put more thought into the name during character creation?). The purpose of this title was to award those who actually played the game by trying not to die to be begin with. Do I wish I could get this title for all my characters? Of course, but only because I wish I could have done a better job at keeping them alive. The title is already cheapened by scrolls, double XP elite weekends, and the like. There is no need to cheapen it even further or create another title simply for those who didn't care about staying alive before.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

15 Dec 2007 at 16:26 - 206

Once you get the title, hat 'encourage not dying' banishes.

This would bring it back.

StelardActek

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2007

Being Little epic Heroes

E/

16 Dec 2007 at 00:39 - 207

I really hate to disagree with you MithranArkanere, since you seem the biggest proponent of this idea, but I'm not sure I see how this would bring back the encouragement not to die for people who have the title.

That said, on my character which has LS, I have been trying not to die still. Want to see how high I can get that XP thing to go.

I imagine I'd do the same on my main, if it was implemented as I've suggested (the XP count in the title window is different to your actual XP count, only showing how much XP you've gained since the 'reset').

Hanok. I can only speak for me, but keeping my character alive when I first got the game was no big deal because there was NO reason to bother at first. Pre-Searing has no DP as you point out, and much of it was done solo. Only after leaving and playing with others does it become annoying, and after that of course I started playing properly. But I already had deaths at that point, and since I view the game as something fun to do, I never went to the extreme lengths necessary to totally avoid deaths from that point on.

Example: You're out playing with a party. Party wipes except for you, but you can't get in there to res them without dying. So, with the party's encouragement, you let the monsters kill you so you can all respawn at the shrine, and everyone can go on playing. You can't do that kind of thing if you're avoiding all deaths. Nor can you play your PvE character in PvP, something I like to do.

Death is part of the game. Totally avoiding it is fine and good, but you can't do it all the time, unless you're willing to go to extreme lengths and avoid certain things, or bail out of dangerous situations. This idea would allow people to play the game and have fun, without throwing away the chance to get the survivor title later.

Solus Spartan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

Australia

[Lawl]

Mo/

16 Dec 2007 at 07:21 - 208

Let's say this, how many characters IF the title was released with prophs, that are prophs characters now, would have the title.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

16 Dec 2007 at 09:09 - 209

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

Let's say this, how many characters IF the title was released with prophs, that are prophs characters now, would have the title.

Why on earth does how many people have it matter?

StelardActek

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2007

Being Little epic Heroes

E/

16 Dec 2007 at 09:34 - 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Why on earth does how many people have it matter?

I'm not sure, but I think he's asking who would have gone for it if there had been a title back then.

But I'm still not sure how that matters. A decent amount, I guess? I'd have gone for it, certainly. But I /have/ gone for it on another character, and gotten it, and I think in terms of people who have a survivor character, there wouldn't be any more than there are now. It'd still appeal to the same type of people.

Hanok Odbrook

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Tyria

Real Millennium Group

Mo/N

16 Dec 2007 at 15:52 - 211

Quote:

Originally Posted by StelardActek

Hanok. I can only speak for me, but keeping my character alive when I first got the game was no big deal because there was NO reason to bother at first. Pre-Searing has no DP as you point out, and much of it was done solo. Only after leaving and playing with others does it become annoying, and after that of course I started playing properly. But I already had deaths at that point, and since I view the game as something fun to do, I never went to the extreme lengths necessary to totally avoid deaths from that point on.

Example: You're out playing with a party. Party wipes except for you, but you can't get in there to res them without dying. So, with the party's encouragement, you let the monsters kill you so you can all respawn at the shrine, and everyone can go on playing. You can't do that kind of thing if you're avoiding all deaths. Nor can you play your PvE character in PvP, something I like to do.

Death is part of the game. Totally avoiding it is fine and good, but you can't do it all the time, unless you're willing to go to extreme lengths and avoid certain things, or bail out of dangerous situations. This idea would allow people to play the game and have fun, without throwing away the chance to get the survivor title later.

Well, I can say that I never really went to extreme lengths to avoid death either - for any character, including playing each one once through the lower level PvP arenas. For my current Survivor character, I will consider what battles to fight and when to have the party run from battle to regroup more so than before, but I still never really stopped playing the game normally at any point with him. And even with all my other characters, I still play them not to get killed - again I simply hate having that death counter climb any higher.

The problem is, with a max level character you have a greater potential for the party wipe situation you mention, especially in EotN, therefore, it seems to me you will be making the choice to wipe for rez more often, and even more so if you play PvP regularly, thereby have to begin all over again anyway. I think that kind of makes a new mechanic for the title or new title pointless. Plus, we have to consider that current characters at this point can easily access the Kilroy dungeon run which essentially makes the title worthless since this is the Survivor's XP farming spot. Sure it will take a lot of time to work your way up, but nonetheless, it's basically a brain-dead way of achieving the title, which really defeats the vision of it to begin with.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

william1975

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Scotland

Dragons of Torment (DOA)

Me/

16 Dec 2007 at 16:34 - 212

from a personal point of view i only want LS on one character and thats my first one, a pre factions one that I learned the game on, and subsequently died a lot with, being a mesmer going through prophicies is a hard task lol.

This idea seems good to me and i would like it.

I suppose the idea is really aimed at those characters made before factions came around. However i don't see this ever being resolved for players, there will always be a large faction on either side.

StelardActek

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2007

Being Little epic Heroes

E/

17 Dec 2007 at 06:14 - 213

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

The problem is, with a max level character you have a greater potential for the party wipe situation you mention, especially in EotN, therefore, it seems to me you will be making the choice to wipe for rez more often, and even more so if you play PvP regularly, thereby have to begin all over again anyway. I think that kind of makes a new mechanic for the title or new title pointless. Plus, we have to consider that current characters at this point can easily access the Kilroy dungeon run which essentially makes the title worthless since this is the Survivor's XP farming spot. Sure it will take a lot of time to work your way up, but nonetheless, it's basically a brain-dead way of achieving the title, which really defeats the vision of it to begin with.

These are good points. However, with the mechanic I suggested, I could play how I normally play, then one day decide I was going to go for survivor, holding back from dangerous play until I attained it. This would be good for others too; new characters could play casually, learn the game, then go for the title when they wish. Existing players with new characters wouldn't have to decide from the outset if they want to bother going for survivor or not.

As for Kilroy's punching dungeon, yes, an existing character can go there right away. But with the Journy to the North buff, characters as low as level 10 can get there with minimal risk. And honestly, getting to level 10 is no really impressive feat nowdays, mainly thanks to max armour from Consulate Docks but I think it would be easy enough without sneaking in there.

If you're determined enough to get the title that you're willing to do endless repeats of that one dungeon, then getting to level 10 to get there without dying will be nothing to you.

Hanok Odbrook

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Tyria

Real Millennium Group

Mo/N

17 Dec 2007 at 12:32 - 214

It's not so much that if you're willing to XP grind that you don't deserve the title, but I am opposed to any character who has deaths being able to achieve any level of the title that they hadn't previously obtained. That's like changing LDoA to a non-death-leveling title just so those who don't want to do it have a chance at getting the title.

The fact that level 10's can now get to EotN and hit up the Kilroy's dungeon is just further cheapening of the spirit of the Survivor title. I would much rather see a completely new title than to see the current one re-designed. In that way, at least those who would like to get another title under their belt can have that opportunity, and to be able to show off what admittedly is an impressive feat for an established character. But let's show a differential between true "Survivor" characters, and just those who have been able to go a stretch without dying.

Heck, I would like to see at least one more tier, if not two or three for the Survivor title anyway - something like "Mythical Survivor", "Demi-God", and "Immortal" for those who have kept going without dying for 5 million XP, 12.5 million, and 25 million, or something like that. However, let's just have some mechanic that doesn't allow the Kilroy dungeon to count towards that reward.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

TaCktiX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Order of Chaos Reborn [ToC]

18 Dec 2007 at 00:10 - 215

There will always be people who will use the exploit way of getting a title. Period. Penalizing all the upstanding folks who just want a second shot for the fact that some cheapos can exploit the Kilroy dungeon isn't fair to the more numerous upstanding folks.

And when you consider, going for any stretch without deaths, no matter how many previous deaths, is Surviving. As it currently stands, only the folks with god-like foresight (pre-Factions) or direct intent (post-Factions) have Legendary Survivor. Legendary Survivor is contrary to every other title in the game (aside from Legendary Defender of Ascalon, which is another can of worms entirely) in that you can't currently pick up its mantle at any time you like. You can go for Tyrian Skill Hunter at any point, as can you finally finish that Protector of Cantha, but starting over on Surviving? Nope, sorry, missed your chance no matter how interested you are in getting the title. Go re-make or make a new character, screw you.

Seems very...heavy-handed, and I doubt that's ArenaNet's intent on any of the titles. They're for fun, and going for any of them should be a matter of "well, I want to get [title] now," not some conscious decision to restart entirely and erase all previous titles and have to re-earn those as well. So making this edit will make Survivor in line with all other titles, in the spirit of the title system. How is that wrong?

As for Legendary Defender of Ascalon, it's a gift to the Pre-searing folks, should always be time-separated from Post-searing, should still be mutually-exclusive with Survivor in any form. And I'm saying this knowing I have 2 characters I plan to get Legendary Defender of Ascalon (one's Level 16 and DeathLeveling, the other is Level 6).

Shadowmoon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/A

N/

18 Dec 2007 at 00:26 - 216

I would have gone for the title if i knew about it, or it was well documented. When i started playing, all wiki said was that the title required not dying while getting the xp, not the part of not dying from the start.
And honestly the title is getting easier and easier to get every day. A-net keeps adding another means to make the title easier. Lvl 10 in GWEN with lvl 20 buff is a big buff. Honestl the hardest part of survivor is getting to the easy to farm spots, for example, lutz for fff or gunnars for dwarf boxing.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

18 Dec 2007 at 01:07 - 217

Quote:

Originally Posted by StelardActek

I can't help feeling that the people opposed to this are probably unemployed and thus free to play several hours a day, every day. I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, but that's the only explanation I can think of for their insistence that rerolling is a good idea.

Not everyone can play that much. I work. I have something of a life. I can get an hour or two a day in game. True, getting level 20 doesn't take that long, but I have several maxed titles and more on the way, I have weapons and skills and armour. On the scale of things it's not that impressive, but it has taken me since Prophecies came out to get this far, because I have other things to do in a day besides play. Are you people capable of understanding how insulting it is when you suggest I reroll?

Sure, I could not do it and not get survivor on my main character, and believe me I will if things stay as they are. But I can't think of a good reason /why/ they should stay as they are, and noone has brought one up either. My original idea should be a minor change unless Guild Wars' codebase is a terrible mess, it wouldn't make the title any easier to get than it already is, and thus wouldn't effect anyone who has the title already or is going for it. So what is the problem?

And why in Effiss' name are there so many people who's primary objection seems to be that it hasn't changed yet?? How is there any logic in that??

Mate, we all have responsibilities.

I am one of the most opposed to this.

I am employed, also a fulltime student, and a teaching assistant, and my day is very full, I can assure you. So don't try the "i don't have time for this card".

I rerolled, can't you?

Siadena

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Rome

Order Of The Immortal

W/

18 Dec 2007 at 01:07 - 218

/signed for the original reason.

Especially for the fact of vets who have had their chars way before titles began, they're screwed for the attempt.

assassin shaun

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2007

England

black wolf pirates [awoo]

A/

18 Dec 2007 at 10:46 - 219

/signed

its a good idea

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

18 Dec 2007 at 12:12 - 220

How about we just make the LS title register towards the Maxed Titles track accountwide and be done with it?

Rachel Crow

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2007

W/Rt

18 Dec 2007 at 16:53 - 221

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

How about we just make the LS title register towards the Maxed Titles track accountwide and be done with it?

I like that idea, because every other idea seems crazy hard to add into the game anyway. Plus it's not like people do it the right way by playing the game and not dying, they just go to that stupid dwarf dungeon or HFFF anyway.

SleetDragon

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

In my House duh...

Knights of The Primeval Kings [Knyt]

W/

18 Dec 2007 at 18:23 - 222

/not signed

Listen I can understand not wanting to remake a character to gain a premier title but, I have a friend and he has litterally made every character on his account legendary survivor and I can't recount the many times I've heard him vent his anger whenever he dies between completeing the title because he's wasted all his money on armor for the character all the skills and didnt get title its not an easy title and shouldnt be flaunted around. I'm sorry if you died in pre title days. But my friend who has done all this is 31 Months old all the way back to Beta, and I can honestly tell you he of all people would never want this travesty to past no matter which way they decide to do it.
It sounds just like an easy way out I'm sorry I don't agree with this especially since my friend had to work so hard for all of his.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

18 Dec 2007 at 18:26 - 223

You you think that if you suffer, other should suffer, instead of removing the suffer so other do not have to suffer?

Yeah... very logic. PRECISELY because it was annoying for him, it should be changed so other do not have to delete characters. Mayre retry forever and ever, and neer getting it, but retry without deletion.

TaCktiX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Order of Chaos Reborn [ToC]

18 Dec 2007 at 18:27 - 224

So because he endured all manner of self-inflicted pain and suffering we should be perfectly at home with doing it as well? Dang, I thought Masochism was just a skill from Eye of the North, I suppose it's supposed to be my play style as well.

SleetDragon

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

In my House duh...

Knights of The Primeval Kings [Knyt]

W/

18 Dec 2007 at 18:38 - 225

Ya act like its gonna kill you to miss "ONE" title.
Perhaps you don't know the meaning of suffering, if this is suffering to you maybe you need to play some other "GAME" that doesnt cause so much suffering. Legendary Survivor is not in my opinion worth my paitence of getting it, However the ones who took the time to get it shouldnt have other people who just want another title to add to their HoM impede what they have worked for, just so you can add another stupid little statue.
I'd also like to add that you're gonna "suffer" either way no matter who wins the argument cause Anet is not going to change it.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

18 Dec 2007 at 21:02 - 226

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

But my friend who has done all this is 31 Months old all the way back to Beta, and I can honestly tell you he of all people would never want this travesty to past no matter which way they decide to do it.

Then let him post and speak his piece. Hell, what we're suggesting here would make it the case that he wouldn't have to start over all those times, possibly saying that he would like this to be implemented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

However the ones who took the time to get it shouldn't have other people who just want another title to add to their HoM impede what they have worked for, just so you can add another stupid little statue.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Me getting the title on a character that has previously died takes away from their skill or accomplishment?

Peter Panic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

ct

Scars Meadows [SMS]

W/

18 Dec 2007 at 21:07 - 227

interesting idea, but my only problem is that the higher level characters that u could reset will already have access to easy ways of xp (trolls, dwarf dungeon, HFFF spot, etc) so it would make it that much easier.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

18 Dec 2007 at 22:06 - 228

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Panic

interesting idea, but my only problem is that the higher level characters that u could reset will already have access to easy ways of xp (trolls, dwarf dungeon, HFFF spot, etc) so it would make it that much easier.

Considering how levels 10s that have EotN can access the Brawling dungeon, an infamous way of getting LS easily, "that much easier" is not really that much easier. Besides, we're mostly talking about making the changes for characters that never had a chance at the title (meaning they were made before LS even came out) or want to go for the title at a later time.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

Let's say this, how many characters IF the title was released with prophs, that are prophs characters now, would have the title.

Just about everyone who's complaining to get it changed that had made a character before it was released. There's no way to really know this, but if I knew about a title like this when I first made my Ranger, I would have put forth an honest effort to not die, and I probably would have been willing to sacrifice my character until I had gotten it.

Almost a couple years down the line, and I already have 11 titles maxed. Sorry, I'm not deleting 11 titles to shoot for 1.

--

Also, another thing to throw out there, since I still don't understand people's viewpoints on this. If the title is changed so that I still have to not die for how ever much EXP as the title currently asks, how does that cheapen out the title?

I'll assume beforehand that if you make the argument of starting at level 1 vs. level 20, you're saying that if I can survive to level 10, I may as well have already earned the title, given the existence of all of the cheapening tactics that many have already listed in this thread.

TaCktiX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Order of Chaos Reborn [ToC]

18 Dec 2007 at 22:49 - 229

Getting Survivor is a piece of cake, even running through the normal story. As long as you don't try to hench through impossible situations, or roll with PUGs thinking that Flare is the best thing for a Warrior to have, you'll get the title. Staying the course for the remaining 90% of the XP is the hard part, and the 1-to-20 Survivor you just got is at near even stakes, if not BETTER than your main character who's been everywhere and done most everything. The new Survivor has more quest rewards, more missions, more skill caps, more chances to get cheap and easy experience. The main character with 7 million experience, Legendary Skill Hunter, Legendary Guardian, and Tyrian Vanquisher? Yeah, all those cheap options are GONE. So getting Legendary Survivor is HARDER as BEFORE ARGUED AND IGNORED for a long-since Level 20 than a brand-new one.

I still refuse to understand why the chief lines of argument against are these pathetic excuses:
- I rerolled, sometimes more than once, and hey, I managed to get it, AND recoup my titles too! Good job, you have no life and/or no attachment to your characters
- It's not been done before, why now? Um...extra storage hadn't been done before, increased gold rewards for vanquishing hadn't been done before, a Hard Mode period hadn't been done before...the list goes on
- You just want another title. A title that people will actually see. A lot of people are like me, and have a main character that comprises half of their total account time, if not more. The half-time for ALL OTHER CHARACTERS will leave little time for the character who HAS gotten Legendary Survivor to get seen and appreciated.

And the reasons that all the /unsigneds are ignoring:
- Attachment to their main character.
- They never had a chance to get the title, because the character is older than Factions.
- They were not aware of the title until well after their main/first character had bitten the dust a few times.
- Limited amount of time available to them, so starting over is not an option.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

18 Dec 2007 at 23:19 - 230

More importantly.

4 of my 10 characters are Prophecies born.

In Prophecies, they only tell you in those blue boxes that you can die with no conseqences, but later youll get penalization.
That was a long time ago of course.

Later on, they tell you that there were really consequences for dying there... oh! Now you can't access Survivor.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

18 Dec 2007 at 23:30 - 231

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

More importantly.

4 of my 10 characters are Prophecies born.

In Prophecies, they only tell you in those blue boxes that you can die with no conseqences, but later youll get penalization.
That was a long time ago of course.

Later on, they tell you that there were really consequences for dying there... oh! Now you can't access Survivor.

Actually, they don't even say that much. I don't remember ever being told anything along the lines of me being docked something for dying in pre-Searing, nor do they say at any time later in post-Searing that you missed out on Survivor. The only way you could figure it out is to get so far in the title track, realize it was there, forget about it later, and come back to find it vanished because you died.

Their messages to us, if at all, are extremely subtle.

Spirit_Axery

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

The Promised Land

A/D

19 Dec 2007 at 00:05 - 232

/signed

Reason: Currently, it's impossible to get Legendary Defender of Ascalon and Survivor on the same character. This should not be the state of affairs.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

19 Dec 2007 at 00:16 - 233

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spirit_Axery

/signed

Reason: Currently, it's impossible to get Legendary Defender of Ascalon and Survivor on the same character. This should not be the state of affairs.

Actually, that's purposeful. If one could earn LDoA and LS on the same character, Tyrians would have one more alternative to getting the God title than Canthans or Elonians unless ANet would change it to a post-Searing attainable title. But then, it's original purpose would be shot.

SleetDragon

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

In my House duh...

Knights of The Primeval Kings [Knyt]

W/

19 Dec 2007 at 02:10 - 234

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Then let him post and speak his piece. Hell, what we're suggesting here would make it the case that he wouldn't have to start over all those times, possibly saying that he would like this to be implemented.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Me getting the title on a character that has previously died takes away from their skill or accomplishment?

I guess the reason continues to escape you. My friend as smart as he is doesn't bother entering the forums and I don't usually borrow my friends to make an excuse but, I've remembered running him through a couple areas so its a personal experience from someone who really worked for the title. What I'm saying is if you allow everyone the chance to go back and repeat their LS title, it will make the title itself illogical. You're not a survivor your another player with another mediochre title. If they reset LS for everyone then they have to equally balance everything and allow everyone a chance to get LDoA again. It doesn't make sense to allow a title to be redundant, so therefor for the simple fact that the title literally won't mean what it states or what it will mean to other players I still remain unsigned

TaCktiX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Order of Chaos Reborn [ToC]

19 Dec 2007 at 03:00 - 235

You still have to survive for 1,337,500 sequential XP. Just because it doesn't start at Level 1 does not cheapen the title in any way at all. It's not like people will suddenly be able to doubleaggro, solo DoA with a whammo, or charge without monks into a mob and get the title. It's STILL as hard as it always has been, and it's not cheapened in any way.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

19 Dec 2007 at 03:10 - 236

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

What I'm saying is if you allow everyone the chance to go back and repeat their LS title, it will make the title itself illogical. You're not a survivor your another player with another mediochre title.

If they reset LS for everyone then they have to equally balance everything and allow everyone a chance to get LDoA again.

1. If I survive the 1,337,500 experience without dying on a character that has already died before I earn that much experience, does that not make me a Survivor? After all, I lasted as long as I would need initially for the title.

And if that's not right, then shouldn't people who have LS need to keep surviving? I mean, if they die, they're not really "survivors" anymore, are they?

2. Perhaps not in this thread or any recent post, but I've stated before that I see LDoA as a joke for a title the way it's set up. The way they put it into the game doesn't even make it fair for them to rework LS in any way so that it could be put on the same character as LDoA.

So, we've said before: keep them exclusive. Or, as I would suggest, change LDoA to something attainable in post-Searing. That, of course, ruins the original meaning of LDoA.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

19 Dec 2007 at 03:33 - 237

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

I guess the reason continues to escape you. My friend as smart as he is doesn't bother entering the forums and I don't usually borrow my friends to make an excuse but, I've remembered running him through a couple areas so its a personal experience from someone who really worked for the title. What I'm saying is if you allow everyone the chance to go back and repeat their LS title, it will make the title itself illogical. You're not a survivor your another player with another mediochre title. If they reset LS for everyone then they have to equally balance everything and allow everyone a chance to get LDoA again. It doesn't make sense to allow a title to be redundant, so therefor for the simple fact that the title literally won't mean what it states or what it will mean to other players I still remain unsigned

on contrary to the bold part you cannot let people have a chance at LDoA again if survivor title is reset because in the first place:

LDoA should be invalid if your character is not a survivor and if it ever exit Pre-Sears, if the "logic" of a character had die will not be able to get survivor apply, then the same should be applicable to LDoA, since if it dies, it can't protect pre sear Ascalon no more, and if it leaves it Abandon Pre-Sear Ascalon and hence can no longer be a defender for Pre-Sear Ascalon.

Therefore in the situation that is now, LDoA have countless death counts and some had abandon Pre-Sear Ascalon, thus Survivor title should logically be re-set and is counted between death and not 0 death from creation of character.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

19 Dec 2007 at 03:57 - 238

To throw another angle into this heated debate, I'm going to expose another recent topic. I choose you, Deadthread!

Phoenix Tears recently made a thread on the topic of changing LS and LDoA. If you'd look at it, you'll noticed he basically got raped and flamed to all ends. I'll boil down the basic idea:

- LDoA needed changed to a post-Searing title which would involve defending Ascalon.
- LS needed changed to accommodate players who were around before it came out.

My basic response was agreement, but saying that LDoA shouldn't even be a title if it wasn't pre-Searing attained and that I supported the LS revision found here. In fact, as far as I know, the only way to fairly adjust both titles to make them attainable on the same character is to do just about that: LDoA needs to be attainable in post-Searing, and LS could just go along with the method discussed by the OP.

You don't have to make LDoA and LS mutually exclusive. You just have to make them fair - one or both for everyone.

cellardweller

Likes naked dance offs

Join Date: Aug 2005

The Older Gamers [TOG]

19 Dec 2007 at 04:21 - 239

To me the better solution is to lose survivor if you ever die and lose LDoA if you ever leave pre-searing.

No disparatity between old or new characters and irrespective of campaign origin. Problem solved.

SleetDragon

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

In my House duh...

Knights of The Primeval Kings [Knyt]

W/

19 Dec 2007 at 04:37 - 240

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

1. If I survive the 1,337,500 experience without dying on a character that has already died before I earn that much experience, does that not make me a Survivor? After all, I lasted as long as I would need initially for the title.

And if that's not right, then shouldn't people who have LS need to keep surviving? I mean, if they die, they're not really "survivors" anymore, are they?

2. Perhaps not in this thread or any recent post, but I've stated before that I see LDoA as a joke for a title the way it's set up. The way they put it into the game doesn't even make it fair for them to rework LS in any way so that it could be put on the same character as LDoA.

So, we've said before: keep them exclusive. Or, as I would suggest, change LDoA to something attainable in post-Searing. That, of course, ruins the original meaning of LDoA.

Well I see your point Shayne Hawkeye, I understand you see it as get 1,337,550 Exp then be done, but lets take a step back, do the players who wasted their time and money to remake their players to get the title get reimbursed? They earned the title the way I believe Anet intended for them to get it. So to allow other players to get a second chance without remaking now thats just not plain fair. I can understand that along with this implication some sort of reimbursment would be fair to the other players that had already recieved the title the original way? If that condition can be met I wouldnt be as impartial to say I don't like it.

I also agree with your second statement I have never particularly cared for either LS or LDoA personally.(Kinda suprised I'm so fiery in the debate about it)Both titles contradict themselves, and maybe instead of LDoA being drug into post searing perhaps we do the opposite with the other campaigns? Create a post Jade Wind for Cantha, and a Turai's Rule for Nightfall or something more creative. Just throwing it out there.