[Dev Update] Exploits and Bans – 10 January 2008

But then you carried on, fought monsters, completed the battle, picked up the loot. You then continued to benefit from your doings, whether it was keeping the loot or on selling it. You may have done this repeatedly when you discovered how cool and easy it was to make money.

You weren't forced to do any of that.

It was like a drug.
The 117 people should go to rehab for a while.
Then get their accounts back.

Yeah really just because the deep and urgoz aren't shown on the map doesn't mean they are there. Do you seriously think people who zone into this place as well as urgoz and deep and thinking OMG MUST BE HAXX !!!

Anet does not have the resources to actually watch what peoples gaming redords are that would take up so much memory. Anet needs to get people on know and simply check to see if their account has any code changes in it that looks like they may have hacked the game. because only those people are the serious threats to changing the economy ingame.

Which, for about the 4th time, I agree that they shouldn't have been banned. But the people who simply went to the outpost and left, they did not abuse this exploit. I'm talking about people who abused it, as in killed Mallyx.

Banning people with 1 campaign and letting a person who did the same thing with all 4 campaigns is picking favorites, is it not? They favor the person for buying all 4 campaigns, and they don't ban them.

Their gaming history is irrelevant. They violated the EULA and should be banned, simple as that.

Probably the same as the duping incident. they have banned everyone who currently has a character that can enter this outpost to prevent any further access then they will work from there and sort out those who should be banned and those who shouldn't.

If thats the case then those who do get their accounts back will at least know better in the future and good riddance to those who stay perma banned.

I never knew you could be banned for killing Mallyx for the first time, i better just roll up in a ball in a corner and just let level 3 gargoyle kick me to death followed my uninstalling gw and breaking all of my disks in half so i can't be banned

...what? This is relevant how?

Killing mallyx the way it's intended != killing mallyx from citadel outpost without clearing DoA.

Ok and heres something that i would want to know about, if somebody "hacked" this into the game, why would they do this kind of thing when they can "hack" themselves armbraces instead?

In no way did anet make a mistake, the exploit involved a hack to access a debug area used by devs in the game and was obviously not legit.

This hack most likely involves manipulating info sent from your own pc to the gw server to say "map me here". Creating items from scratch would require direct access to the gw servers and is completely different.

Comeon Anet has more problems then any game out there this game shouldnt screw people out of their money. because their upset hasnt changed anything in the economy in the first place armbraces have been the same price since Gwen came out.

You dont understand client side hacking if you believe they can take your master card number... Here's how it was taught to me.

1. Player : Hey game.. go take me to ascalon city

2. *Program on the players computer*: No no game! He meant HELL'S PRECIPICE.

3. The Game : Aye aye capn!

I believe the only reason the game let them go there was because the only layer of validation would be the players map... Normal players cant skip because they dont have the area on the map. So they cant click on the little button to tell the game to take them there. The hack works arounds that.

It never was anything on the server side. Atleast i dont think so.

i Agree with this, whoever initially discovered this exploit should be banned, and not everyone that fell 'victim' to whoever hacked the game and were not apart of the 'exploit' part of this glitch

The more I read (and that includes the "admissions" of now banned players over this latest episode) the more I feel that the same players are returning to compromise the game again and again. The same Guilds have their tags associated with dupers/exploiters etc. and whats more some of these tags are from some very high profile Guilds. Now it "might" be coincidence but it strikes me that the same Guilds and a "core" of players are causing these problems.

I for one, am losing confidence in this game on a now hourly basis. I won't be a drama queen and say I'm quitting, but I cannot honestly say I'm inspired to play when aspects of this game are so clearly loaded against me.

Do I blame ANet? Not directly as such, but I have to question policies that allow serious exploits and bugs to remain in the game for anything up to 6 months. I know GW2 is important but is it really coming at the expense of all decent GW1 activity.

The Wintersday holidays were an eye opener. Standing in LA for hours and hours paid dividends in terms of "ingame info" and there were many players quite boastful of their knowledge of existing exploits. So, much of this is not new, I'm sure many on this forum could fill in the details.

The appearance of these problems are becoming far more regular than is healthy and leaves me (and others I'm sure) wondering whether this horse has actually bolted?

When its a acknowledged fact that people have exploited the game to the point that an item has become valuable to the tune of $37,000+ then theres a problem, a real DEEP problem. Deep enough for me to question my allegiance.

I've come to the conclusion that unless you EXTREMELY exploited this area, like, hard core farming, you shouldn't be banned. If you broke the rules on purpose, sure, shower on a 72 hour ban, Anet fixed this area today right? If you farmed it hardcore, perma-ban, I mean, hardcore as in, Armbraces made, multiple.

"No wonder when few weeks ago I went to sell my mallyx shields and in euro dist someone was selling it for like 10-15k. I was like wtf! I thought these shields are rare and hard to get as I worked my ass off and finally after like 10 times of opening mallyx chest they finally dropped for me but I kept both shields and gave up idea of making any money off them."

Holy crap! Two days ago I bought one of these shields for, yes, 15k.

Saw someone advert it, quickly looked it up on the wiki, thought "hmm, nice looking shield" so I bought it. I really don't keep up on these things so I have no idea what this thing normally goes for, figured it was something like the Exalted Aegis, which are running 8-10k nowadays.

Kind of strange to think that the person who sold it to me might now be one of those 117.

Whatever, the Koss who got it is quite pleased.

Scrinner:I will be the first to admit, I know nothing about hacking.I don't necessarily "believe" my Mastercard number will be stolen..but if it's something that concerns me I will address it..these twits who think it's amusing to hack the client may also be edumacated enough to find it funny to "charge" something on my dime.

My actual point was if someone was able to "hack" the GW .dat file and locate the hidden outposts,whats to stop them or any other "more industrious" people from discovering more backdoors.Maybe I'm just a little wary about peoples abilities when they exceed mine in certain areas.

And you can probably bet that some people did. But yeah I agree with you, depends on how much you earned from this exploit, it wouldn't see fair for all that 2 years of gaming effort going down the drain.


But Anet probably wanted this as a stiff warning.....and they might or might not have their own reasons for banning people.


Well, take your anger out on Anet in this post while it's still open!

Anet just denied me again, I am still permanently banned, and losing hope fast.

I said on the first page I unthinkably used it 6 times, 1 to actually finish the quest that I wanted done, then 5 more times because my friend said it was ok, and that it wasn't a hack or an exploit. Then I bought a shield, and gave it to a PvP friend for his use. I made around 18 k off this, oh, and a perma-ban, so yay.

Yes, because if you have been playing that long you should have known better.
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If you where unwillingly taken to this outpost then you should have left the moment you got there. How ever if you then continued to enter the game and then repeat you deserve the punishment. Think about, if an outpost does not show up on your map and you had to relay on getting mapped there by means of another person (Other then Urgoz & Deep being the only exceptions) then there is something really wrong.

There is a thing called accountability for one’s own actions.

Look how many people who didn't abuse this exploit.

The person who told me about this exploit said that one of the people he knew had farmed up 19 armbraces in this fashion. It was then I knew that I needed to submit a support ticket about this and report my findings.

It's sad that I still got included in the same massive ban as these people.

Human curiousity might keep you there. Whenever I find something new I think, "Did I miss something? Oh-well that's quite interesting!" and not "ZOMG HAXX *zones out*" and I've been here 23 months.

Yea i was addicted to this game.
Now I'm done.
Ty Anet.
And for the rest of you.......
>>Say No To Mallyx =D<<

I would do almost anything for my account back...
Heck i didn't even know this was an exploit
(but i guess my stupidity completely had the best of me)

I spent over 2500 hours of my life spent on this game.

I guess it was to good to be true i finally became decent at something, I do something that I was dragged into and I get banned.

This is my last post on this FLAME THREAD

If areana net could understand that most people were innocent and didn't know that this would cause problems.

I hope anet reconsiders for people that sent inquires

Thanks Anet, i guess i wount buy gw2 either cause my Hall of monuments is incomplete

QQ GG
If your gona flame, put urself in my shoes and see how I feel

<QQ>

And yes I know how these people feel.....but they can't just say "Oh, since everyone is complaining about the ban, we will lift it".

Time, solves everything =D

its going to be much more than 117 that won't be playing the game anymore, i know i won't be playing if my friends don't get unbanned whats the point, guild wars have continued to ban people trying to accomplish things gg

more than likly Anet left that outpost there for future testing. people who program do this alot. they hid it away in the .dat file thinking itwould be safe and left it at that. i dont think its Anets fault that people got banned its the peoples fault who decided to hack and .dat file to see what they could get out of it for theselves.

way to go ANET

These 117 people are not all hackers and I hope you all know this by know But really theres friends of these people and that spreads becuase that friend might of convinced more people to play so they are gonna actually losing possible customers for GW2

Why did you think I put this here? :
And yes I know how these people feel.....but they can't just say "Oh, since everyone is complaining about the ban, we will lift it".

But still, dunno about you but unless your friends are real ones, and good friends, how many of you can say, in all honesty, that you too, will quit GW for a online friend?


*Getting beaten by angry people ( )

I will share several bits of information, and then will read the other pages in the forum. But let me answer some of the many comments being offered here, all based on the position that was really pretty clearly detailed in today's Dev Update:

• No one was banned for visiting the hidden outpost once. No one was banned even for going there a few times.
• No one was banned for entering the mission, killing Mallyx, and taking the loot, even if they did that a few times.
• In fact, the bar was set higher than a one-time or even few-time occurrence, as the Dev Update states, to avoid banning someone who was pulled there inadvertently or to avoid banning someone who might have thought he was helping by "testing" the exploit.

• We have had protests saying something like, "But I only did it 4 times!"And the answer is, "You're right: You used the exploit 4 times. And then you used the exploit 20 more times on your other character."
• There is a massive difference between ferrying someone to a known map and hacking the client to go to an inaccessible map, to take on a hero without having had to fight through four difficult challenges prior to that meeting. For in normal circumstances, by the time a party gets to Mallyx, they've taken damage, acquired DP, and spent a significant amount of time. The DoA mission requires talent, skill, and dedication. What challenge is there in skipping to the end scene? And would anyone honestly think that such a short-cut was allowed or intended?
• For some, we see a pattern of movement to the outpost (sometimes after selling passage to others), entering the Mallyx room, killing him, then wash, rinse, and repeat. And boy oh boy, did some people repeat it!

• Yes, we have records, and chat logs, and more. Obviously, anyone who hacked his client needs to be banned, and anyone using this exploit more than a few of times also needs to be banned. Let's not fine-grain this to who did the actual hacking -- the question is, did you benefit from using the hack?
• The existence of the outpost -- in hidden form -- is required to offer the Domain of Anguish. This was not a "test" and the outpost absolutely could not be "deleted when we were finished with 'testing" or "saved on some storage device." So as directly as I can say it to those offering unfounded opinions: Deleting the outpost disables the entire Domain of Anguish mission. Therefore, let's be fair and not blame ArenaNet because someone hacked his client!
• This exploit has nothing to do with texture changes or mods.

• Now, to those who suggest that Support should give a warning before a block or ban, can you please tell me why that would be a good idea? Because I think I can tell you why it would be a poor idea: Giving a warning allows players time to shuffle their items to another account, to create a mule to carry the goods, or to sell them or give them away before they're caught. That means the economic impact remains, and it's the economic impact that we must prevent.
• This exploit is not in any way a form of "farming." Whether someone used an exploit, or partied with someone who did, he were taken to a hidden outpost, which he could easily verify because (a) it was not on his map, (b) Mallyx, in normal gameplay, has no such outpost, and (c) he was almost certainly told it was an exploit, or told to keep it quiet, or sworn to secrecy. He was not farming, he was using or benefiting from the use of a serious exploit.
• The length of the UA, or not reading it, is truly not a defense if one chooses to breach it.

• Saying "They let such-and-such bug/glitch/exploit go, so they should just let everything go" has no foundation in logic. This was a significant exploit, higher in overall concern than someone ferrying another player to a legitimate high-level map. This is hacking the client; this is going to forbidden areas; this is gaining undeserved reward; this is profiting from selling the secret or selling a ferry; this is engaging in activities that can have long-ranging negative effect on the game economy.

We are always very sorry when we have to enact a ban on any account. Although 117 accounts is a very small number when you consider the numbers of those playing every day, it still causes us great distress to be placed in the position of having to enact such bans. After all, the last thing we want to do is turn away people who enjoy our game. I am personally very, very sad to see some names that I recognize involved in this exploit.

We do understand that some people will be angry about our actions, even if they were not personally involved in the exploit. I think we can all agree it's not a pleasant situation from any viewpoint. But we must put the game community as a whole above the interests of the individual player, when the actions of the individual player can have negative consequences upon all players. And that is what we have done.

Players who were banned may submit an appeal. Each such appeal will be carefully and respectfully researched and I truly hope that your personal situation is such that your account might be reinstated. But in all honesty, for quite a number on the ban list, that simply will not be possible. And as distressing as it is for more than the individual players involved, some players will find their ban must be upheld, for the good of the game.

Thank you to those who support ArenaNet in making this painful decision. And our sincere thanks to those who knew of this exploit and did not use it, or who kindly reported it to us directly, so that we could prevent a major impact upon the game about which all of us care so deeply.

bro there was no hackin .dat files!, if there was the server would of not let them bypass.. unless u know somethime i dont? pm.. plz
icall it more like defraging/checking 4 SPYWARE on the .dat file all files on MY PC!

Well I'm sure you know that if 117 customers don't buy their next game it's not going to matter to them.

The problem is, i dont think this was a hack, i personaly think it was a secret handed down from above, in the user agreements it says nothing about a taxi to a place (much like a run to droks or a taxi to docks for better armour) no body has broken the t & c. there was many "bugs" like this and no one has been banned before

She said no one was banned by going there a few times. I guess you went there a lot judging on your reaction.

Gaile's post is completely valid.

Nope, i never went there, didn't get banned, but almost everyone i know got banned. Whats the point of playing a game when your just going to get banned sooner or later?

The kind of people who quit over this are the kind of people we don't need or want in this community. Selfish, sneeaky, thieving people aren't to be mourned when they are removed. It's cancer removal, and who mourns a malignant tumor when it's removed?

Anet did the right thing, Gaile's post was proffessional and very informative. Doing the right thing and punishing the wicked always makes the wicked cry out. However, that doesn't mean the wicked aren't to be punished or that Anet didn't do the proper thing. They did and I stand by them for this decision.

Just some take on the post by Gaile Grey:

ANet stated they didn't ban people who were "dragged " into this "HIDDEN outpost". If you were dragged into this hidden outpost once and got permanently banned then you should send a support ticket and should be unbanned IMO. If you were dragged into this hidden outpost multiple times and your account got banned then I am sorry to say that you probably deserved the ban (and I have the feeling you knew it was coming).

Game economy, I cannot believe this has been going on for 5 months (as stated in this thread). Probabably those XXX armbraces should have tipped ANet off. Specially since I read somewhere that ANet can "smell if you farted in Lions Arch".

Hackers should be rightfully banned is a general consensus in this thread.
As for others it depends on their actions really IMO. Anet cannot know 100% who knew what they were doing was a bannable offense. But there are methods to distil this such as:
-whether you were "dragged" into this "hidden outpost" once or multiple times (see above),
-how long you have been playing the game (if you were new I probably wouldn't hold it against you, however if you have been playing this game for a long time and are active in guru or know about community boards then you probably should have known better).

If Anet says that she will look into these "extraordinary circumstances" then give ANet a chance. If you feel you were unjustly banned then email them a support ticket they will look into it.


Edit:
I was writing this and posted without seeing Gaile's reply. so I guess the right people were banned.

As much as people may not want to do it, this might help:

Tell Anet who was the first person to take you there so they can go up to ladder and punish the people who completely knew it was an exploit.

Promise to give the items that you got from the exploit back or in the trash

and promise never to return to the outpost.

IF this does work I'd except to be watched closely and held to your promises, so dont promise anything you WONT keep.

Just an opinion/sugguestion... I'm sad to lose friends in the game at the moment

How do you figure that? Anyone who quits a game because the an exploit is fixed and the people who abused it banded, won't be missed. WoW isn't a bad game but they do similar things when exploits happen, oh wait no they just close down their servers for a full day or so and still charge ya for it.

If the bar was set as high as Gaile said it was then anyone banded deserved it.

yes it is gg Gaile!

But that doent says nothing about a taxi to a place (much like a run to droks or a taxi to docks for better armour) no body has broken the t & c. there was many "bugs" like this and no one has been banned before-Quoted by truzo 117

same thing here no tweaking of clients, server side or host. just normal rans tele to locations!
and people where banned! trust me.