[Dev Update] Exploits and Bans – 10 January 2008 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Chicken Ftw

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

11 Jan 2008 at 03:09 - 201

Quote:

Originally Posted by pochoWICKED

If it is a "HACK".
It was only the first guy that "hacked" and created this mess.
Therefore 116 players should be unbanned.

Why should they? Knowingly abusing the result of a hack, is still entirely against the EULA and worth the ban. I've yet to see any true logic in unbanning anyone who wasn't dragged there against their will (those are the only real innocents imo).

Edit - oy, reading so many bad excuses gives me a headache. I'm done with this thread. u.u

Azarr#1

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

IOWA

swat

Mo/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:12 - 202

I understand that companys make mistakes in programming but ive played alot of games and this game has the worst programmers ever then because so far I have played WOW and did not like how it took little skill to play so I switched to GW but When I was playing WOW they never had huge things in it the could get you banned. One of my closest friends that played the game is now banned with r4 my guild hall smells of rich mahogany and I dont think this is right If you had the choice between taking a chance between 20 minutes of your time to get something in your hall or 2 hours and 30 minutes to get something in your hall which one would you choose. personally I would rather take the 20 minutes to do it and then the 2 hours and 30 to get something in your hall.

freaky naughty

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/N

11 Jan 2008 at 03:12 - 203

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

What about the true innocents? What about people that were dragged there, and then warped out immediately? What about them (definitely not me)?

Well then the person should have left the group at the first instant they sensed something wrong, even if it was in the middle of the citadel with a great group that guarantees you victory. True innocents were the people who never completed a second mission, as for them do you know any of them who were banned? If no its probable that none of them were banned.

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

11 Jan 2008 at 03:12 - 204

Hacking gets you banned. You knowingly went to an "outpost" that was CLEARLY not an outpost. Your IQ must be exceedingly low to not realize this... what did you expect?

Oh and @Tagne.

Please, they fixed the leave guild hall thing a while ago... this was a seperate thing, and in order to first get to the Mallyx "outpost" you had to hack. It isn't an outpost for Christ's sake!

This would be like me hacking the client and taking people to Kanaxai's final room or such...which clearly isn't an outpost. GG

I think the players that are bidding 100+ armbraces etc on that Polar Bear mini should be banned. Seriously... if it isn't clear they were involved in the duping, I don't know what is.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:15 - 205

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

What about the true innocents? What about people that were dragged there, and then warped out immediately? What about them (definitely not me)?

As I said more then once before, they should not have been banned.

Quote:

Ok, so get this:

I could hack the game, drag a random party with me, and get them all banned?

Depending on the situation, I'm sure you could. I'm not saying they should get banned, I'm saying it's very possible they would.

Quote:

My question still stands Arkantos, how do those other guys suppose to know that it involved hacking??
Oh wait, i know, they all were in his living room watching over his shoulders while he did it.

duh, silly me

Because anyone with common sense would know an outpost that was never in the game that lets you skip all of an area to fight the final boss = something got hacked/exploited. But of course, that's someone with common sense.

As for the people who were dragged there and left, they should have reported. if they reported and got banned I'm sure they could have contacted support/gaile to get unbanned. Two users on guru tested duping to see how it worked, they duped a red dye. They then reported to ANet. Later they were banned. They contacted support, they were unbanned.

Trub

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2006

Sitting in the guildhall, watching the wallows frolic.

Trinity of the ascended [SMS]+[Koss]+[TAM]=[ToA]

11 Jan 2008 at 03:17 - 206

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venus Anu

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo24
ArenaNet knows of this and it is being worked on, don't spread how to do it.

I don't believe they do. I heard (yes, my 'source' again ) this exploit has been around for 6 months. SIX MONTHS. It wouldn't take that long to fix something this serious.
ProgTes
Academy Page

I took this from the original "BUG" poster.

Tell me this was a hack and not an employee slip..... they should retract the bans

Well, If you remember..the Mallyx qwest was (is) very buggy still..and they (ANet) may have been working on that area.
Some places are created by the testers, bug fixers...to create scenarios in which to do thier work.
IT IS NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
The hacker/exploiters walked into a very private office without knocking..and ate the donuts.

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

11 Jan 2008 at 03:18 - 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefke86

My question still stands Arkantos, how do those other guys suppose to know that it involved hacking??

Personally if I was zoning to an outpost I had never been to before (and thus shouldn't be possible), looking at my quest log and wondering why we aren't doing what the quest says, something in my head would start to question what is going on. Whether it was a hack, glitch, exploit, whatever you want to call it I would start to raise some questions.

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Kingdom

Me/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:18 - 208

The outpost was most likely used by devs to test changes with mallyx on the live server due to the various issues they have had with him in the past. So why would they remove something that is used for testing purposes?

Those who accessed this place first had to trick the client into mapping them into this outpost, most of those who where ferried would have known its not legit. Bans where justified and that cannot be argued because everyone who has been banned accepted the EULA.

Jake_Steel

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

Portland, OR

The Older Gamers (TOG)

N/Me

11 Jan 2008 at 03:19 - 209

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

making my statement correct.
ANet left the outpost there. They probably had an idea something could happen related to it, and it did. Thus, being their fault in the first place because they didn't get rid of it.

That's just ridiculous, NOTHING in the real world works this way. If you accidently leave your house unlocked, and someone robs it, it's not your fault it's theirs. You might be a bit of knob for having left the door open but it still does not make it your fault another person decided to rob you. Read how court cases are handled sometime, or maybe take a Law and Legal class when you get out of the 8th grade.

stefke86

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 03:20 - 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Because anyone with common sense would know an outpost that was never in the game that lets you skip all of an area to fight the final boss = something got hacked/exploited.

Never did Mallyx before, beat the 4 generals, how the hell should they know where they were going? Did you know when you for the very first time left pre-searing that there all of a sudden would be a 10x bigger world out there?? I didn't know that. Well, those guys didnt know that they normally should go directly to the citadel or go through a mission outpost first. What the hell, first time for everything right?

Tagne

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 03:20 - 211

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanis616

I'm pretty sure if they reported it as they found out this would have been solved ages ago.

Most of them have just found out about this recently, within the past few days, the did not know it was abnormal they haven't even been there before.

chaoticimajar

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mika Nakashima (Mika)

A/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:21 - 212

w/e mate

you people need to know that 1 person was able to do this and spread it

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:22 - 213

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefke86

Never did Mallyx before, beat the 4 generals, how the hell should they know where they were going? Did you know when you for the very first time left pre-searing that there all of a sudden would be a 10x bigger world out there?? I didn't know that. Well, those guys didnt know that they normally should go directly to the citadel or go through a mission outpost first. What the hell, first time for everything right?

Sorry, I missed one crucial point. YOU'RE MAPPING TO AN OUTPOST YOU'VE NEVER BEEN TO. Everyone should know that is not possible. Feel free to attempt to argue with that.

Azarr#1

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

IOWA

swat

Mo/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:22 - 214

Anet has the worst programmers in the world and the worst security in the world. Who actually gives out a program that isnt locked and give them the control to change and exploit a game anyway. maybe they want people to switch to WOW because clearly they cant lock a program from being able to change the code. Blizzard hasnt screw up this bad why cant Anet do the same and actually not make major screw up

Error of My Ways

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2008

DVDF

Mo/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:23 - 215

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

It was, as we established before, to Support, only until it got onto the forums was it worked on extensively iirc.

When I reported it, it took two days from that time until it got onto the Game Bug Forums on Guru. From then it only took about 3 hours until I got banned for reporting an exploit.

Tagne

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 03:23 - 216

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Personally if I was zoning to an outpost I had never been to before (and thus shouldn't be possible), looking at my quest log and wondering why we aren't doing what the quest says, something in my head would start to question what is going on. Whether it was a hack, glitch, exploit, whatever you want to call it I would start to raise some questions.

I myself never read what the quests say to do, it says Kill XXXX i go kill XXXX

I might not know what im supposed to do exactly but if theres someone there that has done it before and that is what they always do i would think they are right.

tanis616

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

[SMS]

N/Mo

11 Jan 2008 at 03:24 - 217

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tagne

Most of them have just found out about this recently, within the past few days, the did not know it was abnormal they haven't even been there before.

first off how did they get to DoA in the first place? Oh right playing through Nightfall. And by playing through NF you should have found out that there is no button that you click to intermission. And if they were looking to find a group to kill mallyx they must know what DoA is.

stefke86

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 03:24 - 218

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Sorry, I missed one crucial point. YOU'RE MAPPING TO AN OUTPOST YOU'VE NEVER BEEN TO. Everyone should know that is not possible. Feel free to attempt to argue with that.

Err, you do it all the time when you finish missions (in this case the 4 generals)

You map to a new mission outpost then aswell, dont you??

omg, haxxx

Mickey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Eternal Insight

D/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:25 - 219

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Sorry, I missed one crucial point. YOU'RE MAPPING TO AN OUTPOST YOU'VE NEVER BEEN TO. Everyone should know that is not possible. Feel free to attempt to argue with that.

Ferry to Consulate Docks....Ferrying to Urgoz....Ferrying to Deep....to Duncan....

It's happened over the months, it's the same here, except that the original hacker hacked into it to provide the ferrying.

Tagne

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 03:26 - 220

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanis616

first off how did they get to DoA in the first place? Oh right playing through Nightfall. And by playing through NF you should have found out that there is no button that you click to intermission. And if they were looking to find a group to kill mallyx they must know what DoA is.

What your not understanding is most of them have not done mallyx before. They don't know what is supposed to happen

tanis616

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

[SMS]

N/Mo

11 Jan 2008 at 03:28 - 221

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tagne

What your not understanding is most of them have not done mallyx before. They don't know what is supposed to happen

So you are saying they were isolated form everything and they must have known someone doing it, unless for some lucky reason someone was spamming "FERRYING TO MALLYX TO KILL HIM" in icetooth caves. Really they had to know something was up when they zone to a place you have never been to.

BuD

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Nunya

E/Mo

11 Jan 2008 at 03:28 - 222

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

I get ferried to this wierd place, and the Mission Start goes

Curiosity is killin me...

What did this place look like? What is it a completed outpost? Was it dead space?

Ugh the curiosity!!

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:28 - 223

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefke86

Err, you do it all the time when you finish missions (in this case the 4 generals)

You map to a new mission outpost then aswell, dont you??

omg, haxxx

When you finish a mission you automatically get mapped there by the game. In this case you're being mapped there from someone else, which is completely different.

Quote:

Ferry to Consulate Docks....Ferrying to Urgoz....Ferrying to Deep....to Duncan....

It's happened over the months, it's the same here, except that the original hacker hacked into it to provide the ferrying.

You can access the docks before the mission being able to see the zone, and the person ferrying has been there and can walk through the portal. From guild hall to urgoz/deep, you must have already been to that outpost. From outpost to urgoz/deep, you're talking to an NPC that everyone can talk to (but cannot be reached by everyone). Duncan is no longer possible. In this situation you're being mapped (not someone walking through a portal, mapped) to an area that you've never been to before, which is not possible. Ever try to get ferried to urgoz/deep from guild hall and you've never been there? You won't be able to go. That's what this would be like if it was not hacked.

Mickey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Eternal Insight

D/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:31 - 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

When you finish a mission you automatically get mapped there by the game. In this case you're being mapped there from someone else, which is completely different.

You can access the docks before the mission being able to see the zone, and the person ferrying has been there and can walk through the portal. From guild hall to urgoz/deep, you must have already been to that outpost. From outpost to urgoz/deep, you're talking to an NPC that everyone can talk to (but cannot be reached by everyone). Duncan is no longer possible.

Umm....I thought you meant on that specific character? The actually outpost, Consulate Docks, on a low level char that hasn't completed the Time is Nigh, and you just described how people ferried to that Ebony Citadel outpost with the Urgoz and Deep analogy, unless you mean you have to have been there for it to work. You may be right, or wrong, I'm too confused to know.

tanis616

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

[SMS]

N/Mo

11 Jan 2008 at 03:33 - 225

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Umm....I thought you meant on that specific character? The actually outpost, Consulate Docks, on a low level char that hasn't completed the Time is Nigh, and you just described how people ferried to that Ebony Citadel outpost with the Urgoz and Deep analogy, unless you mean you have to have been there for it to work. You may be right, or wrong, I'm too confused to know.

You can only be ferried to the deep if you sole character has already been there. You were able to be ferried to this outpost without being there, something should have clicked in your head.

Azarr#1

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

IOWA

swat

Mo/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:33 - 226

OMG the innocent would give up their money just so that they could get their account back but they dont have the technology take money already recieved out of the game. just like they dont have the technology to change the hair color of a character that you already made bs Arenanet is simply put it lazy they better start waking people up reviewing accounts and unban the people that didnt change any codes and let them get on playing and maybe they will get an extra 50,000dollars from GW2 becuase this isnt just upsetting the banned this is upsetting the people that played with the few that got banned.

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

11 Jan 2008 at 03:33 - 227

Quote:

Originally Posted by pochoWICKED

If it is a "HACK".
It was only the first guy that "hacked" and created this mess.
Therefore 116 players should be unbanned.

I have no idea of how the HACK actually worked, how it was spread and all that, but it was done illegally and intentionally. There is no way you can convince me that all of those people banned didn't know that what they were doing was on the up-and-up.

Mickey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Eternal Insight

D/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:35 - 228

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanis616

You can only be ferried to the deep if you sole character has already been there. You were able to be ferried to this outpost without being there, something should have clicked in your head.

I don't know if anything clicked in your guys heads, but I had already been there, although, this probably won't make sense, and is probably wrong. I tried Mallyx once, and I went to the Ebony Citadel of Mallyx to fight him right? Well the outpost was called the same thing. So in essence, I had already been there, but people are gonna flame and say there are many areas with the same outpost name, but to answer that, you need the specifics from a GM.

tanis616

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

[SMS]

N/Mo

11 Jan 2008 at 03:35 - 229

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tagne

Ok, say some people knew about the exploit and they needed a group to do it..so they would go to icetooth cave to pick up people?

Exactly my point. It was said that they had no idea what Mallyx was so how would they no if "hacked outpost" was spose to be there or not. They have to gather information about Mallyx from somewhere.

Rift

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2007

Canada

Virtual Love [kiSu]

11 Jan 2008 at 03:36 - 230

I find it hard to sympathize with people claiming innocence when even they admit it's been going on for so long.

If I found something neat and helpful, I, as a reasonable person, would post it on forums/wiki's for the general public to benefit from it. In this case, none of you shared this information, at least publically. Why? Because you knew deep down that it was not entirely legit. You knew that if the general population would learn of this hack, it would greatly affect the way things are. And most of all, you wanted to keep it to yourselves because it gave you an edge.

Also, in security practices, it's not uncommon to leave what we call 'honey pots' with the sole purpose of attracting hackers and closely monitoring their actions. You can't blame any one other than yourself for getting caught in a fly-trap. As it was stated earlier, these backdoors are also sometimes needed for live-server testing. So deflecting the blame only worsens your argument.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:37 - 231

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Umm....I thought you meant on that specific character? The actually outpost, Consulate Docks, on a low level char that hasn't completed the Time is Nigh, and you just described how people ferried to that Ebony Citadel outpost with the Urgoz and Deep analogy, unless you mean you have to have been there for it to work. You may be right, or wrong, I'm too confused to know.

When being ferried to consulate docks you're being zoned, not mapped. As long as the portal is open, you're free to go in.

In order to be mapped from guild hall to urgoz/deep, you must have already accessed urgoz/deep. If you've never been there, it will not work.

With citadel you can be mapped there as long as the party leader has been there. It should not work that way, thus it is different.

saopaulo

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 03:38 - 232

ANET:
''In our investigation, we took into consideration extraordinary circumstances such as players who might have been transported to the outpost unwittingly and against their will by a party leader who was hacking the game''

Anet have perm banned ALL players whose been in the forbidden outpost no matter how they get there ( me as proof). They should only ban the players who actually use the third program , obviously thats impossible for them to find those players and the easy way is to ban them all!

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

11 Jan 2008 at 03:38 - 233

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tagne

I myself never read what the quests say to do, it says Kill XXXX i go kill XXXX

I might not know what im supposed to do exactly but if theres someone there that has done it before and that is what they always do i would think they are right.

The bright green dot pointing to a different outpost would've also been a big clue, especially after you killed that last general you probably zoned back to GoA where it would be pointing at the High Priest. I don't check my log either, I just follow the arrow and when something doesn't trigger when I reach the bright green spot then I check my log.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Umm....I thought you meant on that specific character? The actually outpost, Consulate Docks, on a low level char that hasn't completed the Time is Nigh, and you just described how people ferried to that Ebony Citadel outpost with the Urgoz and Deep analogy, unless you mean you have to have been there for it to work. You may be right, or wrong, I'm too confused to know.

You can be ferried to Urgoz/Deep after you've been there once (scroll or someone owning the town) from the guild hall. I'm not sure how the Consulate Docks thing works exactly, but I do know that unlike this hack you don't enter the docks from your guild hall.

Mickey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Eternal Insight

D/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:39 - 234

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanis616

You should have saw that there was no outpost called Ebony Citadel of Mallyx when you first fought there and saw that it was just a zone.

Remember any of those quests in NF, where you need to complete the quest to get the mission? I thought it was like that at first, but then they entered the mission without completely the quest. So I was really confused about that. I guess your right, in a way.

Tagne

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 03:40 - 235

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanis616

Exactly my point. It was said that they had no idea what Mallyx was so how would they no if "hacked outpost" was spose to be there or not. They have to gather information about Mallyx from somewhere.

Now your just confusing me.. most of the people were trying to get a group for mallyx, the first time they have done it before, they get a pm from a random person and get a guest invite to a guild hall for the group, they don't know if its a seperate outpost or not. I can say 95% of the people who "gathered information" about Mallyx were attempting to do Mallyx and were in fact in the DoA

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:40 - 236

Quote:

You can be ferried to Urgoz/Deep after you've been there once (scroll or someone owning the town) from the guild hall. I'm not sure how the Consulate Docks thing works exactly, but I do know that unlike this hack you don't enter the docks from your guild hall.

If you leave Kamadan to the explorable before consulate docks, the portal to consulate docks is closed. If you enter the area with someone who has the time is nigh, the portal will be open, so it is possible to enter.

bart

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 03:41 - 237

I just realised the reason why i stuck around in GWG even after i stop playing GW. Its because I love DRAMA and there are loads of it as it seems as if every 6 months Anet screws up or an exploit is found and many ppl get banned all over the place. Its so funny.

Anyway my thoughts on this is that this should have been discovered and action should have been taken when it first started (from what i've read so far) 5 months ago. How Anet missed this when they were suppose to be using it for testing is beyond me. Taking action now against ppl who were curious is imo too late...

DoH

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2006

W/A

11 Jan 2008 at 03:42 - 238

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanis616

You should have saw that there was no outpost called Ebony Citadel of Mallyx when you first fought there and saw that it was just a zone.

Urgoz is just a zone, the deep is just a zone.
So if you were new to factions and someone took you to their urgoz party you would think it is a hacked town?

OTHERWISE
This makes no sense, most people that got banned didnt even have anything to do with the people that actually obtained the town.

Neo Nugget

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:42 - 239

Quote:

Originally Posted by bart

I just realised the reason why i stuck around in GWG even after i stop playing GW. Its because I love DRAMA and there are loads of it as it seems as if every 6 months Anet screws up or an exploit is found and many ppl get banned all over the place. Its so funny.

Exactly, everyone gets all hyped because it's something different, good or bad.

Azarr#1

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

IOWA

swat

Mo/

11 Jan 2008 at 03:43 - 240

Yes I believe Anet will start unbanning people but now that its the middle of winter here his time over this weekend is shot becuase they decided to ban them now Why couldnt they have done this on a monday. or even taken the time to have people on during pms back to sort through and unban the innocent bystandards of the mess that ANET has caused. The game should check for altered files unban them and maybe before just making people wait until there unbaned for a week