Are all the proffessions equal in pve pugs? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

roshanabey2

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

[lion]

N/Mo

03 Feb 2008 at 23:50 - 1

My main problm is with Ursan blessing
I would have no porblem with this skill if it was nerfered down a bit but, comon! I am a necro by nature and everytime I try to enter a fow/uw group they say your not an ele or ursan for our uranway group. Only 55hps want me now

So what I asking is, is now with ursan blessing and such pve skills (and dervishes

but that topic gets people pissed off, so I will 'try' to leave dervished out of it) can pugs exist with all 10 professions having a use or have some now been rendered usless

The reson i pit this in riverside inn rather than Q&A is that I feel it is more opinion.

Inger

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2007

R/Rt

03 Feb 2008 at 23:54 - 2

if anything ursan opens up the game to more professions.

It used to be elite areas would always demand certain professions to fit a certain team build and thats all there was to it. Noob pugs would be unwilling to try anything different and class discrimination grew.

Well now Ursan allows any profession to join any ursan group and go, there is no worry if you're a mesmer trying to get into a DoA group cuz, if you've got ursan you're welcomed.

Now I know, thats not an ideal situation, I myself don't like how ursan is totally the "in thing" and now no one can run anything but ursan. However it has indeed alowed some "unwanted" professions into certain areas they used to never be accepted into.

ZenRgy

Zookeeper

Join Date: Jul 2005

Australian Discussion Posse HQ - Glorious leader

҉ ̵̡̢̢̛̛̛̖̗̘̙̜̝̞̟&#

N/E

03 Feb 2008 at 23:55 - 3

Last time I checked necromancers were plenty viable and wanted in FoW. Is there a reason you HAVE to pug?

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

03 Feb 2008 at 23:57 - 4

Roshanabey, all professions were never equal in pugs.
Mesmers and rangers often had a hard time getting into groups way back before Factions was released, and I'd imagine rits and assassins also have that problem now.

I'd have to say though, I'm a little perplexed as why they won't take you as an ursan, if you have a high enough rank anyone can ursan easily - certainly warriors with their high AL will always be better off, but ursan really is the "anyone and everyone" build.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 Feb 2008 at 00:07 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inger

if anything ursan opens up the game to more professions.

It used to be elite areas would always demand certain professions to fit a certain team build and thats all there was to it. Noob pugs would be unwilling to try anything different and class discrimination grew.

Well now Ursan allows any profession to join any ursan group and go, there is no worry if you're a mesmer trying to get into a DoA group cuz, if you've got ursan you're welcomed.

At the same time, Ursan has enough potential to do even more damage than normal class discrimination. If you were an "unwanted profession" you could at least reroll into the "wanted" class, but if you don't own GW:EN then you're in somewhat of a rut.

So in essence it could probably hurt just as much as it can help. Nonetheless, people are still probably not playing how they want to (I'd safely assume Mesmers and the like would want to play as a spellcaster, not as something that hits things.)

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

04 Feb 2008 at 00:09 - 6

Tbh, I think when it comes to certain things (that last area that you just can't seem to do), a lot of people will play as whatever gets the job done, even if it isn't really their favoured method.

KamikazeChicken

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

04 Feb 2008 at 00:18 - 7

Necro ursan gets soul reaping, so you shouldn't have any problem getting into PUGs.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 Feb 2008 at 00:18 - 8

Paragons shouldn't have any problems, either, but (lol) they do.

TheRaven

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Virginia

Spirit of Elisha

W/

04 Feb 2008 at 00:25 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inger

if anything ursan opens up the game to more professions.

It used to be elite areas would always demand certain professions to fit a certain team build and thats all there was to it. Noob pugs would be unwilling to try anything different and class discrimination grew.

Well now Ursan allows any profession to join any ursan group and go, there is no worry if you're a mesmer trying to get into a DoA group cuz, if you've got ursan you're welcomed.

Now I know, thats not an ideal situation, I myself don't like how ursan is totally the "in thing" and now no one can run anything but ursan. However it has indeed alowed some "unwanted" professions into certain areas they used to never be accepted into.

That's not true, at least as far as DOA is concerned. I've been trying to find a group with my Ele and been told WARRIORS with URSAN only!!!!!! If you aren't a warrior or a monk you are not welcome in DOA anymore.

It's a shame, because I don't have a warrior at the end of NF yet, only an Ele but it looks like I won't be getting a sneek peak at the DOA area anytime soon.

Sub Frost

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Portugal

R/

04 Feb 2008 at 00:28 - 10

I'm confused... why are u trying to join a ursan group, if you're not using ursan?

Normal(balanced) groups still do uw/fow, and i've always seen a necro on them.

stormmage

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jan 2008

Zealots of Shiverpeak

E/

04 Feb 2008 at 00:33 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

That's not true, at least as far as DOA is concerned. I've been trying to find a group with my Ele and been told WARRIORS with URSAN only!!!!!! If you aren't a warrior or a monk you are not welcome in DOA anymore.

It's a shame, because I don't have a warrior at the end of NF yet, only an Ele but it looks like I won't be getting a sneek peak at the DOA area anytime soon.

Eh I have seen plenty of ele's in Ursan groups in DoA, I Uway there myself as an ele, same in UW.

Dark-NighT

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Stygian Veil

Shoop Da Woop [Lolz]

N/Mo

04 Feb 2008 at 00:40 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

At the same time, Ursan has enough potential to do even more damage than normal class discrimination. If you were an "unwanted profession" you could at least reroll into the "wanted" class, but if you don't own GW:EN then you're in somewhat of a rut.

So in essence it could probably hurt just as much as it can help. Nonetheless, people are still probably not playing how they want to (I'd safely assume Mesmers and the like would want to play as a spellcaster, not as something that hits things.)

MY primary char is necro.

I know how it goes, and understand the OP totally because i had the same issue some day. anyway you say change to a different character, but that defies the point here a bit, i can certainly change to whatever profession they want but those arent my main characters, yes i might get a statue on them but its pretty useless if i got it with a non main char.

But i dont get the ingame community at all, they all do the same thing, that is run this type of build and nothing else, almost like they are afraid to try something NEW for a change.

Celestial_Kitsune

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Me/

04 Feb 2008 at 00:41 - 13

Some professions are more equal than others.

Free Runner

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

GW2G

Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL]

04 Feb 2008 at 00:44 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Presler

But i dont get the ingame community at all, they all do the same thing, that is run this type of build and nothing else, almost like they are afraid to try something NEW for a change.

There are people who want to get a challenge and create builds while there are those who want to get the job done. Nearly all PuGs are the latter and have never tried anything new. Its always been one team set up until it ether gets nerfed or a new more efficient one pops up.

aapo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

04 Feb 2008 at 00:51 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshanabey2

My main problm is with Ursan blessing
I would have no porblem with this skill if it was nerfered down a bit but, comon! I am a necro by nature and everytime I try to enter a fow/uw group they say your not an ele or ursan for our uranway group. Only 55hps want me now

AAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaa aaaaaaRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh my ****ing goodness you are ******. Why on the bloody hell do you want to join Ursanway group without Ursan Blessing? And like when group asks for Monk do you get your wammo and start argumenting that "it's like a monk just W primary, I got 8 healing skills"? Start your own noob group for profession viability. Chances are, not many people want to join. Why's that? Because PUGs SUCK and people usually want to get STUFF DONE and NOT FAIL.

crazybanshee

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Look out!

E/

04 Feb 2008 at 01:09 - 16

Some of the answers you got are kinda rude, but yea ursan allows mesmers, assassins, ritualists, and whoever else is discriminated against to get into elite areas they never could in normal pugs. I've done all on my ele, cleared uw and fow 10+ times each, doa 5+ times, deep and urgoz (not as ursan, but I think that would have been quicker)

So yes, please don't join an ursan group if you're not an ursan. There's a reason they're called ursan groups. Reminds me of a group I was in recently, I joined as an ursan, asked to make sure it was ursan, then someone was trying to rush rush rush into fow and someone else asked to ping builds, turned out I was the only ursan

Kyomi Tachibana

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

Oregon, USA

Where iz teh Bonuz [WitB]

P/W

04 Feb 2008 at 01:28 - 17

Profession inequality is part of the game, PUGs will never know how good you actually are, so they will judge you based purely on your profession, which is the beauty of Guilds and the Friends list.

Also, Ursanway is called Ursanway for a reason, the only reason you should not have Ursan is if you are a monk. That's that and I doubt anything you say or do will make a PUG change it's mind.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

04 Feb 2008 at 01:43 - 18

For PuGs:

Monk > Ele > Warrior > Necro > Everything else

In terms of actual effectiveness:

Paragon > Rit > Warrior > other physicals > other casters > Mesmer

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 Feb 2008 at 01:54 - 19

Presler: I'm not saying that rolling a new characters is the best solution. I'm saying at least that's what you can do when someone's in such a situation. All campaigns have all the core professions, so if you are "unwanted" and fed up with a lot of the bullshit at least you can do that. But if you don't have GW:EN there's not a whole lot you can do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

Oh my ****ing goodness you are ******. Why on the bloody hell do you want to join Ursanway group without Ursan Blessing?

You might as well yell at mesmers for not being an elementalist.

aapo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

04 Feb 2008 at 02:33 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

In terms of actual effectiveness:

Paragon > Rit > Warrior > other physicals > other casters > Mesmer

- Rits are really poor. Probably the worst primary profession for PvE. Assassins can do damage, Mesmers have Signet of Illusions and decent PvE skills. Channeling is the only viable tree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

You might as well yell at mesmers for not being an elementalist.

- I'm not criticizing what profession/skillbar person runs. I'm criticizing that people think their supposed right to join any kind of party with any profession/skillbar goes above other people's right to play the way they want to play.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

04 Feb 2008 at 02:34 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Rits are really poor. Probably the worst primary profession for PvE. Assassins can do damage, Mesmers have Signet of Illusions and decent PvE skills. Channeling is the only viable tree.

Splinter weapon + ancestor's rage > your face.

aapo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

04 Feb 2008 at 02:46 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Splinter weapon + ancestor's rage > your face.

- And you really need Rit primary for this? Splinter Weapon lasts 20 seconds or 1...5 attacks. Spawning Power increases the duration of weapon spells. Can you guess is Splinter Weapon more limited by number of attacks or by its duration? Also Eles and Dervishes deal much more consistent damage than Ancestor's Rage.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

04 Feb 2008 at 02:50 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- And you really need Rit primary for this? Splinter Weapon lasts 20 seconds or 1...5 attacks. Spawning Power increases the duration of weapon spells. Can you guess is Splinter Weapon more limited by number of attacks or by its duration? Also Eles and Dervishes deal much more consistent damage than Ancestor's Rage.

You run primary rit for the runes. A 14 spec splinter weapon is around 30% more effective than a 12 spec splinter thanks to the extra attack.

Anyway, you can very easily fill a very powerful bar with only channeling, restoration, and PvE skills, so there's not much motivation to run it on another primary.

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

04 Feb 2008 at 03:07 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

and I'd imagine rits and assassins also have that problem now.

Thats really sad because sins are great in FoW. I had 2 in my groups today and they were tearing up the foes in a matter of seconds

Concerning Ursan, I have never used it and never will... I want it to be removed completely (or nerfed so badly that it is worthless

)

lutz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Battery Powered Best Friends [Vibe]

Me/

04 Feb 2008 at 03:17 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

For PuGs:

Monk > Ele > Warrior > Necro > Everything else

In terms of actual effectiveness:

Paragon > Rit > Warrior > other physicals > other casters > Mesmer

Paragons are pretty bad. If I wanted good DPS and defense, I would have brought a Mind Blast warder. Thanks.

Monks are pretty much the only profession that can prot. So, Monk > all.
Be worse at the game.

Razz Thom

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Three Feet Below Sea [LevL]

D/Mo

04 Feb 2008 at 03:22 - 26

holy cow..............
i thought i'd never see it...........

another ursanQQway thread.......

the only people who truly want this skill nerfed or removed are leetist jerks who want DOA UW and FOW back to themselves and they will say anything to get it back that way. If you aren't discriminated against over Ursan, you will be over not being one of the holy trinity or not being experienced enough anyway. Plz god let it alone and plz let these QQ threads stop already.

A-Net plz give the leetists back their crutch so whilr they are in their basements wishing for a life, they can at least FEEL Uber for a little while.

street peddler

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

04 Feb 2008 at 03:24 - 27

lol someone said paragons are bad in pve

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

04 Feb 2008 at 03:25 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Paragons are pretty bad. If I wanted good DPS and defense, I would have brought a Mind Blast warder. Thanks.

Monks are pretty much the only profession that can prot. So, Monk > all.
Be worse at the game.

There's Nothing to Fear! and Save Yourselves! would like to have a word with you.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

04 Feb 2008 at 03:27 - 29

There are only two professions that are actually useless in PvE: ranger and mesmer. Ranger because a Rt/R can outdamage and outinterrupt it, and mesmer because secondary mesmers can do their work just as well (usually better) in PvE.

Warrior is near useless, but there is the one Dragon Slash/"Save Yourselves!" build that is still good enough to redeem the class.

[riVen]

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Refuge From Exile [RFE]

04 Feb 2008 at 03:32 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

AAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaa aaaaaaRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh my ****ing goodness you are ******. Why on the bloody hell do you want to join Ursanway group without Ursan Blessing? And like when group asks for Monk do you get your wammo and start argumenting that "it's like a monk just W primary, I got 8 healing skills"? Start your own noob group for profession viability. Chances are, not many people want to join. Why's that? Because PUGs SUCK and people usually want to get STUFF DONE and NOT FAIL.

O_o You have issues.

Anyway... it's really simple. If you, for some reason, have to pug, then you'll have to accept the fact that you can't always run what you might like. You'll have to adjust. If you do want to run what you want to, then play with guildies/friends etc. Simple, no?

zzZZzzzzz

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

04 Feb 2008 at 03:34 - 31

On the subject of profession equality, here's what I currently see as the PUG balance of desirable classes...

Monk - This one's obvious, it is the most sought out class in most groups.
Elementalist - Nukers are sought out as well and most PuGs think that Elementalist is the only nuker.
Warrior - Most PuGs think that the average PvE area actually needs a tank. IMO only the toughest of elite missions need a tank, and even then an Elementalist works just as well or better.
Necromancer - Minion Master.
Ranger - Interrupts.
Dervish - Seen as similar to Warrior by most PuGs.
Ritualist - Can sometimes get in as a healer.
Assassin - Seems to be only taken when there is a deficit of warriors and dervishes.
Mesmer - Taken when no rangers are in sight and a mission needs an interrupter, even then not always taken.
Paragon - Nobody seems to want them because most PuGs don't have the faintest idea how the class works.

Just some random stuff, take it with a grain of salt.

lutz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Battery Powered Best Friends [Vibe]

Me/

04 Feb 2008 at 03:42 - 32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

There's Nothing to Fear! and Save Yourselves! would like to have a word with you.

Oh okay you're bad. A bonder with "Save Yourselves!" is pretty much win.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

04 Feb 2008 at 03:48 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Oh okay you're bad. A bonder with "Save Yourselves!" is pretty much win.

If 30ish% unconditional damage reduction, party healing, +100 AL for the whole party, and a ton of damage is bad, call me captain scrub.

lutz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Battery Powered Best Friends [Vibe]

Me/

04 Feb 2008 at 04:19 - 34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

If 30ish% unconditional damage reduction, party healing, +100 AL for the whole party, and a ton of damage is bad, call me captain scrub.

You don't need anything except "Save Yourselves"; a paragon is a waste of time. "There's Nothing to Fear!" is not worth bringing when you already have "Save Yourselves!", which can be done on any W secondary (bonder).

Paragons do much less damage than other classes. Much, much, much less damage.

Yes, you are captain scrub.

Crom The Pale

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ageis Ascending

W/

04 Feb 2008 at 04:41 - 35

Necros are one of the most powerfull and versitile classes in all of GW.

If someone asks you to run Ursan Blessing just laugh in their face and move onto a good party.

[skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Price of Failure[/skill][skill]Reckless Haste[/skill][skill]Enfeeble[/skill]

I would rather have a necro with that half skill bar than an UB necro any day in any map.

Whiskeyjack

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

KOFU

04 Feb 2008 at 04:45 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

You don't need anything except "Save Yourselves"; a paragon is a waste of time. "There's Nothing to Fear!" is not worth bringing when you already have "Save Yourselves!", which can be done on any W secondary (bonder).

Paragons do much less damage than other classes. Much, much, much less damage.

Except a bonder is a waste of a party slot and paragon's have comparable dps to a warrior, but you knew that right?

Quote:

Yes, you are captain scrub.

Irony FTW.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

04 Feb 2008 at 04:48 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiskeyjack

a bonder is a waste of a party slot

I laughed at that.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

04 Feb 2008 at 04:56 - 38

It is, though. If you actually need a bonder, chances are your party sucks.

In the history of GW, physicals have been the pinnacle of damage dealers. The Paragon is a physical damage class as well as a class that buffs other physicals. What's not to like?

If anything, than Assassin and Mesmer would probably be worst.

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

04 Feb 2008 at 05:00 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Paragons are pretty bad. If I wanted good DPS and defense, I would have brought a Mind Blast warder. Thanks.

A ward is not going to provide anywhere near as much defense as a paragon, and your damage will not be better unless you're balling large groups of enemies for Rodgort's. At which point I'd rather have a rit for Splinter Weapon since it's better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

You don't need anything except "Save Yourselves"; a paragon is a waste of time. "There's Nothing to Fear!" is not worth bringing when you already have "Save Yourselves!", which can be done on any W secondary (bonder).

You're basically devoting that entire character slot just for defense when you can use a paragon to provide more defense with offense. SY is not going to reduce armour ignoring damage either, TNTF will. Let's also not forget that it gives a party wide heal when the duration expires.

Bonders as a whole are fairly worthless. Devoting skill slots on a monk to reduce the damage done by physicals when you can just chain Aegis or slap Weakness on a mob's face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Ranger because a Rt/R can outdamage and outinterrupt it, and mesmer because secondary mesmers can do their work just as well (usually better) in PvE.

I never see Rt/R with Broad Head Arrow, one of the best skills to use in PvE. I don't need to have a lot of damage when one skill completely shuts down a priority target.

Mesmers are really not all that bad. The domination line is very useful for taking out targets that matter. They just don't see play because players value AoE more than anything.

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

04 Feb 2008 at 05:02 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

AAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaa aaaaaaRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh my ****ing goodness you are ******. Why on the bloody hell do you want to join Ursanway group without Ursan Blessing? And like when group asks for Monk do you get your wammo and start argumenting that "it's like a monk just W primary, I got 8 healing skills"? Start your own noob group for profession viability. Chances are, not many people want to join. Why's that? Because PUGs SUCK and people usually want to get STUFF DONE and NOT FAIL.

Anyone else find it funny that the "noob group" is now defined as one where people actually play as their own professions, with some modicum of skill required to get through the area?

Also...lol @ bonder with Save Yourselves! How is he gaining 8 adrenaline every ~4 seconds?