Poison Tip Signet should probably replace Serpent's Quickness, thanks Tyla. I don't think Troll is needed with all the prot and healing flying around and Natural Stride won't work given all of the enchants.
Needling rocks with dazed, Body Shot powers Epidemic to spread Blind, Weakness, Cracked Armor, Deep Wound, Poison & Fire on the melee train. Without Body Shot the hero can run low on energy when spamming Epidemic.
My paragon's buddies
Antithesis
kel77
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Seriously - great guide Rachtoh!
We've gotta use this build one day instead of sabway for vanquishing tyla...see how they stack up
Eric Clapton
For the second 3 heros would it be possible to throw in an Order of the Vampire N/Rt healer and run 2 barrage heros? OoV would add to the healing and damage though each hit. Put splinter on the barrage heros with flesh of my flesh or DPS if you want even more hard res. Then your friend would be free to run whatever he wanted.
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Clapton
For the second 3 heros would it be possible to throw in an Order of the Vampire N/Rt healer and run 2 barrage heros? OoV would add to the healing and damage though each hit. Put splinter on the barrage heros with flesh of my flesh or DPS if you want even more hard res. Then your friend would be free to run whatever he wanted.
OotV doesn't work if you have another Necro enchantment on you. If you're willing to give up Dark Fury and armour-ignoring damage for some life-steal then go ahead
Shaz
OoV - For 5 seconds, whenever a party member who is not under the effects of another Necromancer enchantment hits a foe with physical damage, that party member steals up to 3...13 Health.
Therefore OoV cannot be use with OoP and Dark Fury. So if you want to use that you'd have to take out the D/N or mod it somehow. Just not worth it, Dark Fury is just too good for adrenaline gain.
Edit - Oops, too slow. Blue beat me :P
More Edit - I usually run with these when I can with a friend.
Rt/X
Splinter Weapon
Ancestors' Rage
Spirit Rift
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Offering of Spirit
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Rt/X
Splinter Weapon
Ancestors' Rage
Spirit Rift
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Offering of Spirit
Protective Was Kaolai
Bloodsong
Both with 14 Channeling 13 Restoration 3 Spawning
And a W/Rt Earth Shaker Warrior with Death Pact Signet. I don't really like melee H/H but they're ok with it, need a lightning rod for Ancestors :P. If you can get a human warrior all the better. The last member can be whatever you like I guess.
The Rits doesn't have res because 3 hard resses is usually enough (not counting the last human res). If your party goes down too fast that these 3 hard res can't recover, you're probably going to wipe anyway.
You can probably switch out the second splinter for something else. But with 3 paragons and a warrior, 2 copies of splinter is nice as it will be on 3 or more most of the time. The build provide some aoe damage that the paragons does not do, which can help blow up mobs quite nicely while providing some healing at the sametime. With 2 pots and Life you also have great party healing.
Therefore OoV cannot be use with OoP and Dark Fury. So if you want to use that you'd have to take out the D/N or mod it somehow. Just not worth it, Dark Fury is just too good for adrenaline gain.
Edit - Oops, too slow. Blue beat me :P
More Edit - I usually run with these when I can with a friend.
Rt/X
Splinter Weapon
Ancestors' Rage
Spirit Rift
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Offering of Spirit
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Rt/X
Splinter Weapon
Ancestors' Rage
Spirit Rift
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Offering of Spirit
Protective Was Kaolai
Bloodsong
Both with 14 Channeling 13 Restoration 3 Spawning
And a W/Rt Earth Shaker Warrior with Death Pact Signet. I don't really like melee H/H but they're ok with it, need a lightning rod for Ancestors :P. If you can get a human warrior all the better. The last member can be whatever you like I guess.
The Rits doesn't have res because 3 hard resses is usually enough (not counting the last human res). If your party goes down too fast that these 3 hard res can't recover, you're probably going to wipe anyway.
You can probably switch out the second splinter for something else. But with 3 paragons and a warrior, 2 copies of splinter is nice as it will be on 3 or more most of the time. The build provide some aoe damage that the paragons does not do, which can help blow up mobs quite nicely while providing some healing at the sametime. With 2 pots and Life you also have great party healing.
Antithesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaz
Rt/X
--snip--
Rt/X
--snip --
Both with 14 Channeling 13 Restoration 3 Spawning In theory, those are quite nice builds. In practice, a hero Rt runs them into the dust within 20 seconds in HM...they are incapable of managing the energy required to spam spells.
Replacing Spirit Rift with Soothing Memories for some additional energy management barely helps. Dropping another spell for Glyph of Lesser Energy helps marginally, but then you've killed half the build.
A single Offering of Spirit Necro can run it with some difficulty, but Spirit Rift needs to be dropped for Signet of Lost Souls to keep on top of the energy, even with the benefit of Soul Reaping. A duo of N/Rt's still run into energy problems.
I really wanted to like the builds, heroes just don't run them very well. If they're N/Rt & combined with a Minion Bomber they can run the builds by replacing Spirit Rift with Signet of Lost Souls. If the minion energy stops, they're in trouble.
--snip--
Rt/X
--snip --
Both with 14 Channeling 13 Restoration 3 Spawning In theory, those are quite nice builds. In practice, a hero Rt runs them into the dust within 20 seconds in HM...they are incapable of managing the energy required to spam spells.
Replacing Spirit Rift with Soothing Memories for some additional energy management barely helps. Dropping another spell for Glyph of Lesser Energy helps marginally, but then you've killed half the build.
A single Offering of Spirit Necro can run it with some difficulty, but Spirit Rift needs to be dropped for Signet of Lost Souls to keep on top of the energy, even with the benefit of Soul Reaping. A duo of N/Rt's still run into energy problems.
I really wanted to like the builds, heroes just don't run them very well. If they're N/Rt & combined with a Minion Bomber they can run the builds by replacing Spirit Rift with Signet of Lost Souls. If the minion energy stops, they're in trouble.
Shaz
Really? Mine don't really have that much energy problem. This isn't a theory build, I've used them before. And I always have my heroes skill bar up at all time, because I like to monitor their skill usesage to see if I need to tweak it. I'll have to test it again then.
Marverick
I'd drop the ash pot, at least on the one with Life, but the rest looks good.
Shaz
After a bit of testing with a friend, this is the final build for now.
Rt/X
Splinter Weapon
Ancestors' Rage
Spirit Rift
Essence Strike
Spirit Light
Offering of Spirit
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Rt/X
Splinter Weapon
Ancestors' Rage
Spirit Rift
Spirit Light
Offering of Spirit
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Flesh of my Flesh
I took out Mend Body and Soul because with TNTF and SY, that was unnecessary. Put in 2 filler skills for now until I find something better, Flesh of my Flesh and Essence Strike. Their energy hover around 17-18ish most of the time, but they can constantly dish out damage and heal, and doesn't really run out of energy. That's because that's just how OoS work, they don't use it until they get quite low on energy. But I also ran 2 motivation paragons with Aria of Zeal instead of one 1 command and 1 motivation like Racthoh. Maybe that has something to do with their energy. While Anthem of Envy is nice to have around, most enemy goes below 50%hp pretty quickly without it, save a few like the Disc of Chaos in GWEN oO.
This is my main setup for my 2 paragons.
P/Me
Vicious Attack
Spear of Redemption
Merciless Spear
Expel Hexes
Aria of Zeal
Hexbreaker Aria
Aggressive Refrain
Signet of Return
12 Spear, 11 Motivation, 12 Leadership
P/X
Swift Javelin
Vicious Attack
Spear of Redemption
Song of Purification
Aria of Zeal
Anthem of Flame
Aggressive Refrain
Signet of Return
12 Spear, 12 Motivation, 12 Leadership
Rt/X
Splinter Weapon
Ancestors' Rage
Spirit Rift
Essence Strike
Spirit Light
Offering of Spirit
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Rt/X
Splinter Weapon
Ancestors' Rage
Spirit Rift
Spirit Light
Offering of Spirit
Protective Was Kaolai
Life
Flesh of my Flesh
I took out Mend Body and Soul because with TNTF and SY, that was unnecessary. Put in 2 filler skills for now until I find something better, Flesh of my Flesh and Essence Strike. Their energy hover around 17-18ish most of the time, but they can constantly dish out damage and heal, and doesn't really run out of energy. That's because that's just how OoS work, they don't use it until they get quite low on energy. But I also ran 2 motivation paragons with Aria of Zeal instead of one 1 command and 1 motivation like Racthoh. Maybe that has something to do with their energy. While Anthem of Envy is nice to have around, most enemy goes below 50%hp pretty quickly without it, save a few like the Disc of Chaos in GWEN oO.
This is my main setup for my 2 paragons.
P/Me
Vicious Attack
Spear of Redemption
Merciless Spear
Expel Hexes
Aria of Zeal
Hexbreaker Aria
Aggressive Refrain
Signet of Return
12 Spear, 11 Motivation, 12 Leadership
P/X
Swift Javelin
Vicious Attack
Spear of Redemption
Song of Purification
Aria of Zeal
Anthem of Flame
Aggressive Refrain
Signet of Return
12 Spear, 12 Motivation, 12 Leadership
Eric Clapton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaz
OoV - For 5 seconds, whenever a party member who is not under the effects of another Necromancer enchantment hits a foe with physical damage, that party member steals up to 3...13 Health.
Therefore OoV cannot be use with OoP and Dark Fury. So if you want to use that you'd have to take out the D/N or mod it somehow. Just not worth it, Dark Fury is just too good for adrenaline gain. Oops forgot about that, well scratch that idea. I would like to add that I have tried similar rit heros and haven't had much luck with energy management also. I may test your builds to see how they fair in HM situations.
Therefore OoV cannot be use with OoP and Dark Fury. So if you want to use that you'd have to take out the D/N or mod it somehow. Just not worth it, Dark Fury is just too good for adrenaline gain. Oops forgot about that, well scratch that idea. I would like to add that I have tried similar rit heros and haven't had much luck with energy management also. I may test your builds to see how they fair in HM situations.
Racthoh
I would imagine the heroes using MB&S on the cracked armor if the Life spirit was up which may have lead to the energy problems. If the AI knows how to check for the secondary effect of it that is.
Antithesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
I would imagine the heroes using MB&S on the cracked armor if the Life spirit was up which may have lead to the energy problems.
Nup, that's not it. I took AR off the paragons to test just that - If they're not spamming heals they're spamming channels, and they tank either way.
An Ele with 75e, GoLE, dual attunes, GG and RI can't keep up with SR, AR and SW. Nor can a Necro coupled with a bomber. A dual attune blindbot and a dual attune Rodgort's can spam AR and SW with no problems, except against heavy interrupts. A N/Rt can spam the heals with no problems. Combining the two on the one bar and keeping up with energy in HM is a challenge.
If heroes used OoS correctly they could better handle the build, but any build that has to wait at 0e for the 5e to cast OoS is fail for me.
FYI - i've been testing builds in HM outside Chantry of Secrets for the mix of physicals, interrupts, strippers and nukers, doing a full run around the big rock to take in the Harpies, Scytheclaws, Rock beetles and human/margonite mobs. I also test in Hell's Precipice (heavy interrupts / stripping) and against the hammer / splinter Wardens outside Altrumm Ruins (heavy physicals).
An Ele with 75e, GoLE, dual attunes, GG and RI can't keep up with SR, AR and SW. Nor can a Necro coupled with a bomber. A dual attune blindbot and a dual attune Rodgort's can spam AR and SW with no problems, except against heavy interrupts. A N/Rt can spam the heals with no problems. Combining the two on the one bar and keeping up with energy in HM is a challenge.
If heroes used OoS correctly they could better handle the build, but any build that has to wait at 0e for the 5e to cast OoS is fail for me.
FYI - i've been testing builds in HM outside Chantry of Secrets for the mix of physicals, interrupts, strippers and nukers, doing a full run around the big rock to take in the Harpies, Scytheclaws, Rock beetles and human/margonite mobs. I also test in Hell's Precipice (heavy interrupts / stripping) and against the hammer / splinter Wardens outside Altrumm Ruins (heavy physicals).
MercenaryKnight
Just curious, why anthem of flame instead of anthem of weariness on morgahn? Since weariness would weaken enemies and it lasts 9 seconds it seems like morgahn would be able to use stunning strike easier on enemies. Since it also will apply weakness first before stunning strike hits?
Also does melonni have to be on guard or attack? Since the touch skill I am not sure if set to defend would actually have melonni run up and heal someone if they are too far.
Also does melonni have to be on guard or attack? Since the touch skill I am not sure if set to defend would actually have melonni run up and heal someone if they are too far.
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
Quote:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Vanahk%27s_Staff
Lacks the enchanting but the double cast is more important. Enchantments ending earlier isn't exactly a bad thing on a dervish primary.
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Also does melonni have to be on guard or attack? Since the touch skill I am not sure if set to defend would actually have melonni run up and heal someone if they are too far.
I've had the hero on all three, only difference has been auto-attacking or not.
MercenaryKnight
I was just wondering if there was a reason morgahn had anthem of flame instead of anthem of weariness. Would be a simple substitution and all the seconds of weakness would last longer than the 2-3 seconds of being on fire.
XingLoong
I was wondering what runes/insignias and weapon sets are used for the heroes?
I'm using a D-Slash warrior with most titles at 3 or so. Looks fun to try.
MercenaryKnight
I would assume no vampirics for heroes because they don't weapon switch. My personal preference is furious spears instead of a pointless sundering mod. Especially for hayda to increase her adrenaline gain for any important skill such as song of purification.
I believe they just get minor spear mastery (headgear), minor leadership, minor command/motivation. The only thing I am thinking about changing is anthem of flame on morgahn. There is no they're on fire skill, so the burning seems pointless in comparison to weakness applied before stunning strike, and also lasting 8-9 seconds so that morgahn can cast stunning strike on an enemy more.
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by XingLoong
I was wondering what runes/insignias and weapon sets are used for the heroes?
I'm using a D-Slash warrior with most titles at 3 or so. Looks fun to try. They all have survivor runes. Centurion's and Windwalker's would be the optimal choice if it wasn't so easy to keep the +100 AL in effect. Dervish has an adept blood staff of enchanting, with a 20% faster cast on blood magic. Paragons both have sundering spears because vamp is annoying on heroes since they can't swap. That and I had sundering greens at the time I outfitted my heroes. Shields are +30 health, +10 vs. slashing.
MercenaryKnight
Also, it's a major spear rune on morgahn I noticed.
Eric Clapton
I don't ever run anything except minor runes on heros, I would rather keep the hp up, but if you want to be really cool you could do centurion on the chest and legs and survivor on the others.
XingLoong
I just need to find two random spears and shields >_>
And the staff
Racthoh
On a paragon you can get away with running a single major. 14 spear makes the 10 second Dazed breakpoint on Stunning Strike.
Eric Clapton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
On a paragon you can get away with running a single major. 14 spear makes the 10 second Dazed breakpoint on Stunning Strike.
Yeah thats a good point, longer dazed is better. If you do run a major make sure you have the propers spear and shield mods...meaning +30s on both, or at least + some hp.
Racthoh
Actually I just realized my heroes have minor runes for attributes they're not using.
Add a Vitae or Clarity rune in those slots.
MercenaryKnight
I was just curious, was their any green blood staff that you knew of that was cheap for the orders build? I just slapped on a collector 20/20 blood staff that has no mods for now. But obviously enchanting mod would help a lot.
Also, was their a particular reason that maybe I am just being stupid/ unaware of that is the use of anthem of flame? Maybe it's the extra damage over time since weakness= a waste if you have 100+al, but it fulfills the stunning strike requirement longer.
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
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Lacks the enchanting but the double cast is more important. Enchantments ending earlier isn't exactly a bad thing on a dervish primary.
Quote:
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Also, was their a particular reason that maybe I am just being stupid/ unaware of that is the use of anthem of flame? Maybe it's the extra damage over time since weakness= a waste if you have 100+al, but it fulfills the stunning strike requirement longer.
The weakness is redundant, same reason I chose to use Stunning Strike over Defensive Anthem in this version. TNTF and SY is more than enough to mitigate damage. It makes applying the daze a little tougher with just these heroes, but that doesn't prevent you from running a longer lasting condition of some kind in the other 4 character slots. If you can't fit another condition anywhere else, and are worried that the burning may not be a reliable enough means, go with Spear Swipe (disabled, micro as necessary) over Vicious Attack and Cruel Spear instead of Stunning Strike. Or simply drop Hexbreaker Aria for Anthem of Weariness as it won't be necessary in every zone.
blue.rellik
Do your heroes use Hexbreaker Aria well enough or is some extra work required on your part?
Racthoh
Even if there are no hexes present they will use Hexbreaker Aria, but just like any adrenaline skill they won't use it as soon as it fills.
Antithesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
On a paragon you can get away with running a single major. 14 spear makes the 10 second Dazed breakpoint on Stunning Strike.
You could run a minor and take a +33% Dazed spear like Droknar's Strength
angmar_nite
Is Aggressive refrain easily maintained by the heros alone without excessive micro? Because I'm an elementalist and can't spam anthem of flame for them every 2 seconds.
Antithesis
They won't maintain it, you have to do it for them. Anthem of Flame's the way to go, They're on Fire if you don't want them to stop running. Bind the skill to a key and just press it every 10 secs or so. You get used to it pretty quickly.
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by angmar_nite
Is Aggressive refrain easily maintained by the heros alone without excessive micro? Because I'm an elementalist and can't spam anthem of flame for them every 2 seconds.
I'd use They're On Fire! since if I had to guess you're using fire skills on your ele?
Marverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis
You could run a minor and take a +33% Dazed spear like Droknar's Strength
There's no reason to run all minors on a character with 196 armor.
angmar_nite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
I'd use They're On Fire! since if I had to guess you're using fire skills on your ele?
Antithesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
There's no reason to run all minors on a character with 196 armor.
True, just making the point that a minor can be run with a +33% daze spear to go well beyond the 10 sec breakpoint for Stunning Strike
 The reality of the Paragon is it's safe enough to run with two sups, but it's not the most sensible approach. Covah
These builds work great.
/godmode
MercenaryKnight
I only had 1 problem running the build. Hayda didn't like using merciless spear pretty much at all. She would be spamming spear of redemption more then when enemies were under 50%. I was in the fow with girlfriend that had sabs 3 necro's, so their was added ss damage and minions exploding so dunno if maybe killing them quicker caused hayda to have bad timing or whatever.
Besides that it worked good, the only healers we had were the d/n and sab n/rt healer.
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
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I've never watched the skillbars too closely but when the enemy would drop below 50% that deep wound was always close to follow.
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Besides that it worked good, the only healers we had were the d/n and sab n/rt healer.
The last few times I've been in FoW now with the guild we've been using a single monk with 3 straight heals, 3 hex removals, and 2 party heals, with the D/N. The SY eliminates the need for prot, even in hard mode.
- Tain -
Great builds... loving them. The only reason I don't fall asleep while running this is I have to keep switching targets to build adren - everything falls over too fast.
Skyros
Does work without the SY spam? or is that the main defense in this build?
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