Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?

ragnagard

ragnagard

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

In Spain, of course

Gamer Espa??ol[GE]

N/Mo

19 Mar 2008 at 10:56 - 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper Service
the "economy" is fine now we can all get what we want for a reasonable trade in time spent.
Yeah.. then tell me how do you buy some of the new DAW items.
That isnt needed and just for ego... ok...

Tell me how do you get an elite armor (starting at 40k). Tell me how do you get a Destroyer weapon (30k+), so i can put any of em at the HoM.

By power trading my saurian bones? Playing the storyline...how much times? arent 1 in NM, 1 in HM, + some for the capture + guardian/protector just the tries we need?

tmakinen

tmakinen

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

www.mybearfriend.net

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

E/

19 Mar 2008 at 11:11 - 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
If anything, the bug concerning killing lots of creatures at once should be removed. If I kill 20 foes at the same time, why should my drops be 10 times worse compared to killing them 1 by 1?
It's not a bug, it's how LS is implemented. The algorithm has a self-adaptive control loop that adjusts the waste rate based on the value of actual drops per some unit of time. I've been poking the thing on occasion when too bored to do anything else but there aren't enough data collected yet to give any hard numbers. What I do know is that when you enter an explorable the algorithm preloads a certain seed value to your 'already granted loot' variable and thus the probability that the first monster you kill in the instance drops something depends on how long you've been in the explorable.

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

19 Mar 2008 at 11:43 - 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnagard
Tell me how do you get an elite armor (starting at 40k). Tell me how do you get a Destroyer weapon (30k+), so i can put any of em at the HoM.
I had no problem getting what I wanted (elite armor) without farming, not one minute, or power-selling (don't think I've got the gift for that). The BMP helped a bit, but going through the 4 campaigns gave me ample money for my needs. And I'm a completely casual gamer.

the_jos

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

N/

19 Mar 2008 at 12:03 - 44
No.

The biggest problem, while not explicitly stated by A-net were not bots but human farmers.
Not even talking about the hardcore farmers, but the casual players being forced to farm.
Before LS, this was the only way to get the items one wanted because of very high prices since everyone determined enough to get the item was going to farm.
With about 1/6 to 1/4 of the income compared to pre-LS the economy has deflated so those casual players were not forced to farm anymore but could get the item by regular play.

Malice and MirkoTeran are right, the somewhat high-end market will be hit even harder so for the average player there is no gain there.
And for the average player there is no gain, because prices will go up again and they will be forced to farm again.
The only ones who will benefit are a relatively small group of casual/hardcore farmers who are willing to farm to get what they want.

Proff

Proff

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2007

19 Mar 2008 at 12:04 - 45
dynamic ips ftw....

anet cant ip ban with a variable cause some innocent players may get banned.

dunky_g

dunky_g

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

[SNOW]

19 Mar 2008 at 12:16 - 46
they wont remove LS, and i dont really care if they do or not, have to adapt as the game evolves.

Solas

Solas

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ireland

Currently LF Active HA Guild, Glad 2, Comm.3, R2

E/

19 Mar 2008 at 12:19 - 47
people QQ about how the econemy is falling etc.

Removing loot scale with jsut cause more trouble imo.

but if bots were the main reason for it and there removed then humans will jsut take there place wouldn't day?

phoo slaya

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

United Clans of Perfect Chaos

R/N

19 Mar 2008 at 12:34 - 48
EDITED:this is how it will go down if loot scaling is taken out. the amount of money in game will rapidly increase. The number of high end iteams in the game will increase as it does now, slowly. so basically there will b tons of cash and not much to spend it on. where are those prices going? up up and up smore, noobs think they will benefit from this because now they can b rich too, wrong. the people who will really benefit from this are those who already have high end iteams. TLDR: THINK about the actual effect of this, it's more than just "ooo more monies."

O Nuxtofulakas

O Nuxtofulakas

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Did u check your closet?

N/

19 Mar 2008 at 12:46 - 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

Removing loot scale with jsut cause more trouble imo.

but if bots were the main reason for it and there removed then humans will jsut take there place wouldn't day?
exactly


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_groovy
It would also make it easier for the "casual" player to get those 250 Token armor pieces in EON (glacial, destroyer gloves etc.).
the game is on 3rd year...
we had the introduction of ursanoskilleverything...
numerous players try to find challenges to keep on playing the game and we ask to make it easier??????

perhaps we should ask anet add "/giveme500e" command to make it even "easier" for "casual" players

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

19 Mar 2008 at 12:59 - 50
/signed

Loot Scaling effectively killed the profitability of places like FoW and UW. Seriously, an "elite" area which requires 3 hours investment (2humans, 6 hench) to make 6k is not "elite", it's f***ing shite. I'll stick to triple account HFFF, it's more profitable, even if it is mindnumbingly boring.

Kusandaa

Kusandaa

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

N/Mo

19 Mar 2008 at 13:00 - 51
Leave it, remove it, I don't care much... always ways to make my cash >_>. LS hasn't stopped me from doing anything, I still solo farm.

Shadow Kurd

Shadow Kurd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Netherlands

Scouts of Tyria

P/

19 Mar 2008 at 13:23 - 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusandaa
Leave it, remove it, I don't care much... always ways to make my cash >_>. LS hasn't stopped me from doing anything, I still solo farm.
But have you been making the same amount of money is the same amount of time?

mr_groovy

mr_groovy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

No Inherent Effect [NiE]

19 Mar 2008 at 13:28 - 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas
exactly




the game is on 3rd year...
we had the introduction of ursanoskilleverything...
numerous players try to find challenges to keep on playing the game and we ask to make it easier??????

perhaps we should ask anet add "/giveme500e" command to make it even "easier" for "casual" players
There's a difference between 250E and 250 Grawl Necklaces for instance.
I'm not for making it easier to "run with the big boys".
But what I do am for is making it easier to get common armor pieces, etc.

Besides Removing ls doesn't make the game easier or harder. It just makes your platinum easier to come by. Remember even with a full group, if you kill a lot of creatures in a instant, you don't see drops. That too is LS

Witchblade

Witchblade

Polar Bear Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

19 Mar 2008 at 13:29 - 54
FYI: rares items are supposed to be rares

People want 10 gold drops out of 10 kills and then QQ because it's worth nothing

Dont make things worse...

Quru

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Acolytes of Death

N/

19 Mar 2008 at 13:32 - 55
Loot scaling don't affect me. I do mostly Hard mode, and thought, loot scaling or not, drops at NM sucks.

rohara

rohara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Rt/

19 Mar 2008 at 13:36 - 56
HELL YES. LS was a bad idea to begin with...sif bots care about their loot. i hate spending hours in dungeons and coming out with nothing but a few collector items, a wee bit of gold, and a few purple merchfoods to show for it.

Maverick2201

Maverick2201

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2008

R/N

19 Mar 2008 at 13:36 - 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
/signed

Loot Scaling is almost universally seen as a bad idea.

I don't care about the player economy. This will make it easier to buy nice armour for my characters.
I guess the way you think is that there shouldn't be any money in the game...

Every game item should be something you can get by collecting various collector drops?

Seriously... how do you not care about player economy? I suppose you leave every single item that you don't intend to use on your character on the ground... you never pick anything up that you intend to sell?

Master Knightfall

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

19 Mar 2008 at 13:38 - 58
Quote:
And we all know the only reason Lootscaling was introduced, was because of these goldwebsites.
WRONG! It was NOT the ONLY REASON lootscaling was introduced. Lootscaling was introduced to keep people playing the game and coming back for more of the carrot in front of the horse type play that is in this game just like all the rest. If everyone could get everything within a month or two there wouldn't be very many people left playing. Look at your Diablo 2 game offline even. It's about a 2 month game of hacking and slashing to get most all the best of the neat items in that game and then it's boring hack n slash once you've gotten most of what is neat and kewl. So loot scaling is to keep casuals playing longer (most of their lives haha) and the hardcore around to have these phat loot items casuals want to buy (but can't afford them so they used gold buyers lol)

Sooooo, what will happen now is casuals will have to really bow down to the hardcore and put their noses to the GRINDstone and WORK for their gold to buy these lovely items the hardcore players have and loot scaling will remain the same so the world will last at least until GW2 comes out. Then Anet/NCsoft don't care what happens to GW1 after that. They will want the new money for GW2 which will continue the process and add even more grind and more loot scaling just like now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rohara
HELL YES. LS was a bad idea to begin with...sif bots care about their loot. i hate spending hours in dungeons and coming out with nothing but a few collector items, a wee bit of gold, and a few purple merchfoods to show for it.
Boo hoo hoo hoo QQ more. Everyone play under the same rules and principles of drop rates. Just because you didn't get the sword of everslaying the very first time gives reason that the whole drop system suks lol romlamo

Steps_Descending

Steps_Descending

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

IN my pocket plane. Obviously!

Little Tom's Pocket Plane [THom]

Me/Mo

19 Mar 2008 at 13:38 - 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quru
Loot scaling don't affect me. I do mostly Hard mode, and thought, loot scaling or not, drops at NM sucks.
Because scaling doesn't affect HardMode?

Anyway...
/SIGNED to one of the few useful poll in riverside.

Witchblade

Witchblade

Polar Bear Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

19 Mar 2008 at 13:39 - 60
btw: why bothering with nm farm (except for elites areas)

TideSwayer

TideSwayer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

We Farm Your [?????????s]

19 Mar 2008 at 13:43 - 61
Lots of people in this thread are wrongly linking droprate with quality-of-droprate. They are NOT synonymous, and one actually inversely affects the other. If the droprate increases ANet will have no choice but to decrease the quality-of-droprate. Something has to give. You can't have every dead creature drop something and still have the same gold droprate as you do now. Golds won't flow as freely as they do now, and farm code will come back into play where people who farm a lot get reduced drops even further. Most farm runs will be for white merchantable trash. There won't be more skins on the market, like some people in this thread are claiming. Without LS it would be like it used to be, where only a few people here and there actually get a good drop, and the vast majority of the rest of us get garbage that we take to merchant. Right now, believe it or not, most skins are worthless because golds drop like rain due to the increased quality-of-droprate ANet set when they lowered the droprate for LS. If anything the worthlessness of skins (as it is now) would diminish as less and less of them get into the market. Skins would rise in value.


Do you want to add 2-3k to your storage every run, and have to more or less go to town for whatever skin/mod you want (due to how infrequent you will actually be getting them without LS and with decreased quality-of-droprate), or do you want to get less overall $$$ every run, but have a better chance of getting that unique skin or mod yourself? This is the real LS argument, not "worthless" and "more worthless".

Master Knightfall

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

19 Mar 2008 at 13:48 - 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchblade
btw: why bothering with nm farm (except for elites areas)
I use NM farm when I'm going after some green drops that are really close to a town or outpost like that max ele staff just outside one of the torment zones where all those titans are. The Boss is about 15 steps away from the zone so NMing it makes it easier and Green drop rates are not adjusted for NM/HM play they drop at the same rate whether you play NM or HM. Playing NM can kill the boss and mobs faster since they have less hit points and do less damage. The Woe Spreader farm is about the same just a lil bit futher distance and I'll NM that one as well. Same for that Green Healer staff everyone in inlove with from Factions in the Grove area. If you look them up there's lots of good/great GREEN items real close to town/outpost zones that you can cleanup getting. I know one place there are four bosses all right together and I make a killing selling their Green drops cause they are excellent stat ones that everybody wants.

BlackSephir

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

19 Mar 2008 at 13:48 - 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foe
yes plz, it was sold as necessary evil to combat bots. Everyone hates it, bring back solo fun.
I didn't know I'm no longer part of "everyone".
Maybe that's better if "everyone" consists of geniuses talking crap, lying and putting words in my mouth.

Keithark

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Be Aggressive B E Aggressive [AGRO]

E/Me

19 Mar 2008 at 13:49 - 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
/signed

Loot Scaling is almost universally seen as a bad idea.

I don't care about the player economy. This will make it easier to buy nice armour for my characters.
This is a very important reason to remove loot scale...armor, cap sigs, etc all cost what they did before loot scale so now you make less and have to spend the same to get what you want. Did A-Net consult with GW Bush on how to F up the economy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchblade
FYI: rares items are supposed to be rares

People want 10 gold drops out of 10 kills and then QQ because it's worth nothing

Dont make things worse...
No, we want to kill 10 creatures and get 10 white items and once we do that about 1000 we sell to merch and go buy some 15k armor or work on our drunkard title or whatever

Scary

Scary

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Uhmmmm??

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

N/

19 Mar 2008 at 13:49 - 65
/signed


....But, they shouldnt only reduce lootscaling, they also should make the loot
more diverse. just make some things up that make people suprise or have
a laugh over some drops.
Like they have in Perfect World the lucky cards.. wich can give you several
suprises with one of them turning you into a Pig or a rabbit.

That would be nice

Aera Lure

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

19 Mar 2008 at 13:58 - 66
/signed

I actually enjoyed farming before loot scaling.

I've never been as poor in game as I have been since loot scaling was adopted. In no way did it have the effects I thought loot scaling was intended to address in the first place. True, everyone had more gold before loot scaling, and prices of things sold by players were higher, but we had more buying power relative to the higher prices. More buying power relative to what we experience now, where prices from players are lower but the time spent saving the funds takes longer. Static prices also never changed at all (armor, skills). Loot scaling was one of the worst things to happen to the game.

t h i n e eyes b l e e d

t h i n e eyes b l e e d

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2007

Finland, Vantaa

Sasquatch Squad [LAME]

Rt/

19 Mar 2008 at 14:04 - 67
A spark of hope just flashed inside of me when I read the update. If they'd remove loot-scaling it would take me back to GW, certainly!

So totally superbly and hopefully this thread gets ANet's attention!
/Signed

rohara

rohara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Rt/

19 Mar 2008 at 14:08 - 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Knightfall
Boo hoo hoo hoo QQ more. Everyone play under the same rules and principles of drop rates. Just because you didn't get the sword of everslaying the very first time gives reason that the whole drop system suks lol romlamo
you completely missed the point, loot scaling hardly scathed rare item drop rates...common items and gold are where people got screwed.

i have 9 characters that already have every elite armor and weapon they could possibly want. (and a few pvp chars that are decked out with tournament reward stuff) i'm not hurting for money, and i hate buying/selling on the player market and i avoid it as much as possible. hell, i give away most of my gold/green items to guildies/alliance members who want them. if nobody wants them, they go into a guru auction. if nobody buys them, they go to the merchant. i generally only make money from selling the garbage i get from playing. (key word - garbage, ie. white/blue/purple items) after loot scaling, i hardly even get any garbage.

i also like to put collector items on my heroes. loot scaling put a stop to that pretty quick.

if it weren't for zaishen keys, i'd be broke. you know there's something wrong with the economy when pvp keeps your pve characters afloat.

bel unbreakable

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

scotland

shadow hunters of light

W/Mo

19 Mar 2008 at 14:10 - 69
yep get rid of loot scaling cause it seems to me the gold sellers just got worse after loot scaling came in

stretchs

stretchs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

Untimely Demise [Err了] - SOHK

19 Mar 2008 at 14:25 - 70
Eh, loot scaling as much as it has hurt many things, it has also helped as well. I dont see them removing it anytime soon. My guess is, dont get into a froth if they never revisit it

lilbubba829

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2008

Rt/

19 Mar 2008 at 14:27 - 71
All this will do is make the few items that haven't changed price less desirable. For example, all elite armors will be easily achievable. You still make plenty of money farming with lootscaling, so imo it should stay.

mr_groovy

mr_groovy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

No Inherent Effect [NiE]

19 Mar 2008 at 14:32 - 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by TideSwayer
Do you want to add 2-3k to your storage every run, and have to more or less go to town for whatever skin/mod you want (due to how infrequent you will actually be getting them without LS and with decreased quality-of-droprate), or do you want to get less overall $$$ every run, but have a better chance of getting that unique skin or mod yourself? This is the real LS argument, not "worthless" and "more worthless".
Ls did not increase the drop rate of rare items. The "repeated entry of an instance does not effect drop rates " update, + hard mode did that.
Again Loot scaling effect normal merchant fodder drops, and monster collectable drops. >.>. And yes I'd rather have the 2-3K extra per run.
Most rare skins + greens are already non-profitable to farm, so I'd rather merch more then sell a supposed rare item for a bargain price. (Yes there are still real rare items, but those are rare for a reason).

kartmaster

kartmaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Kansas

Slayers of Worlds [SoW]

19 Mar 2008 at 14:32 - 73
I seriously don't see them removing loot scaling. But I would LOVE if they did. The present exemption list is about as close as we'll ever come I think.

/signed though

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

19 Mar 2008 at 14:33 - 74
Most emphatically /NOT signed.

To remove LS is to flood the market with gold, which will devalue the gold everyone has. With gold devalued, only the farmers will have enough to buy items at inflated prices.

Which is, of course, the real reason farmers want LS removed... they want all the toys and to hell with the community.

JeniM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

W/E

19 Mar 2008 at 14:36 - 75
If i saw Update Notes : Loot Scaling has been removed from the game, then I would actually sign-in to GW's again

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

19 Mar 2008 at 14:40 - 76
Completely /signed

Its funny to see some long time Guru posters on here just show how big a noob they really are by thinking removing loot scaling will give us more rare drops oh how I /lol.

Also theres the usual 'Zomg I dont farm so why should you /notsigned' posters that are even bigger pricks.

People that solo farm all do it in UW / Fow now. If they remove loot scaling, we will be able to make money elsewhere and ecto and shards will start going up in value.

/Signed please, I was never as poor as I am now in GW before loot scaling, and I still need to max my consumable titles.

JeniM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

W/E

19 Mar 2008 at 14:48 - 77
Exactly the problem, our income decreased but Sig Cap is still 1k each, keys for TH are still 600g+, sweets and drink are still same prices.

When they crippled our income they should of lowered those items prices.
The only way to make enough to survive is either power trade or farm 24/7, enter the hardcore players and bots
Thats why people buy gold, because they can't make enough through a few hours a week to ever finish an expencive title

I thought Anet encoraged casual gamers, loot scaling begs to differ.

cerb

cerb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2005

Sept-Iles, QC, Canada

Les Tric??ratops Sont Nos [Amis]

Mo/

19 Mar 2008 at 14:50 - 78
I remember back then when we'd kill like 20 smites and half the screen would fill with drop messages. Now we barely get 1-2 whites from such groups. (maybe that's also because they all die at the same time, but who cares, screw loot scaling)

Koning

Koning

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

19 Mar 2008 at 14:58 - 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeniM
Loot Scaling has been removed from the game
OMG I already got excited by reading that line

Cab Tastic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Rt/

19 Mar 2008 at 15:08 - 80
/signed

Loot scaling has to be the worse decision ever made by Anet.

To a lot of players getting lots of loot = lots of fun. And that is why we play games right??

I can't imagine who thought it was a good idea. It must have been someone in higher management and the rest just followed along with it.

There was just no need for it at all. Common player needed items were not expensive before loot scaling. Only rares commanded huge amounts as is the case now.
Prices would have fallen as a result of HM. Loot scaling wasn't needed, it only makes it harder for casual players to get the fixed price items: armours, consumables etc.