First off, please do not turn this into a arguement about Ursan Blessing being imbalanced.
Over the past couple of months I have seen thread after thread of people ranting and raving against UB. The community is obviously split between the ones who love and those who hate it. One thing that I have not seen is a thread suggesting possible nerfs to the skill.
So, here it is.
If you were to NERF Ursan how would you do it, without totally destroying the skill.
I think changing the energy degen from -2 to -4 would be a nice nerf. If nothing else, this would slow down UB groups because they would have to wait for the skill to recharge, instead of just steamrolling through an area. It might also make some people think twice about using it because when UB drops your energy is at 0, and you don't want that to happen when you are in the middle of battle.
If there is already a thread about this floating around I appolagize.
How Would You NERF Ursan?
Fried Tech
MithranArkanere
The only change it needs is to ingore profession, by disabling primary attribute and armor bonuses under its effect.
There's another thread about that.
Your suggestion will only make the Elementalist and Necromancer ursans the best choice.
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Originally Posted by Zting
There's another thread about that.
Your suggestion will only make the Elementalist and Necromancer ursans the best choice.
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a BIP in the team and the nerf is no more :P
As far as I can tell the -2energy is immutable, so neither -1/+1 energy properties or skill effects do not change it.
Squishy ftw
- make the skills do less damage or stop them from ignoring armor(skill 1)
- increase recharge, a lot
- make that first skill a melee attack that strikes twice, so it can be blocked, missed, blinded
- increase recharge, a lot
- make that first skill a melee attack that strikes twice, so it can be blocked, missed, blinded
Numa Pompilius
Easy. The reason Ursan is broken is because it synergizes with itself. It synergizes with itself through the damage mitigation from the knockdowns: the more ursans in the team, the more time the enemies spend on their collective butts, and the less damage the team takes.
Hence, Ursan should be nerfed by making the AoE knockdown into a single-target knockdown.
That's all it takes. Self-synergy gone, Ursanway dead, but Ursan still useful.
Hence, Ursan should be nerfed by making the AoE knockdown into a single-target knockdown.
That's all it takes. Self-synergy gone, Ursanway dead, but Ursan still useful.
Ghostcell
OMG DON'T NERF URSAN WTF URSAN PWNS!!
lol jk.
taking away the energy gain from attacking would be a decent way, heals and all that only heal for 60% of what they would normally would be a decent way to slow groups down without killing the skill.
don't let the first skill do less damage, but make it so it can be blocked.
just a couple of ideas, imo its just a matter of time before ursan does get smacked with the nerf bat.
its just a question of how badly it will be hit.
lol jk.
taking away the energy gain from attacking would be a decent way, heals and all that only heal for 60% of what they would normally would be a decent way to slow groups down without killing the skill.
don't let the first skill do less damage, but make it so it can be blocked.
just a couple of ideas, imo its just a matter of time before ursan does get smacked with the nerf bat.
its just a question of how badly it will be hit.
Fried Tech
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Originally Posted by pfaile
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Originally Posted by Ghostcell
just a couple of ideas, imo its just a matter of time before ursan does get smacked with the nerf bat. its just a question of how badly it will be hit. That is exaclty why I started this thread. Lets post some good ideas for ANet to see. Hopefully, that way, they will see what the community thinks and not beat it to death with that Nerf bat... instead just give it a good smack on the head. CHannum
IF I were to nerf UB, which I wouldn't actually do, I'd simply make it so that it performed the same regardless of underlying armor and energy (as was already mentioned). The chief reason I see it as not having been nerfed as opposed to previous PVE skills is that it's open to all classes BUT since not all classes are equal under UB, if it is to be nerfed/made fair, that's what I'd do.
miskav
Remove damage taken as energy gain.
MithranArkanere
Quote:
Originally Posted by miskav
Remove damage taken as energy gain.
Again, another one that will benefit Elementalists and necromancers.
Making it benefit even more a single profession will not help with it.
Samscwamch
Personally i would increase the energy cost and remove -1/+1 so you just have permanent energy degen making it harder to keep up. This would also encourage bringing an actual bar with instead of just ursan and a bunch of resses (pardon me but thats all i see), So during that down time your waiting for your energy and the cooldown on Ursan to wear off your still going to be able to fight and be usefull.
MirkoTeran
a) Remove it. Easy.
b) Make it enchantment and give it huge recharge time. c) Reduce damage by 2/3 and make KD target only. d) Restrict usage to Norn areas. e) Leave it as it is. If more then 1 player in team has UB then 3/4 of enemy mobs get UB (the rest turn to monks) and gain 5 levels per number of ursan players. (AKA: Say 'Hi' to level 55 Titans with UB) Fried Tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by MirkoTeran
a) Remove it. Easy.
b) Make it enchantment and give it huge recharge time. c) Reduce damage by 2/3 and make KD target only. d) Restrict usage to Norn areas. e) Leave it as it is. If more then 1 player in team has UB then 3/4 of enemy mobs get UB (the rest turn to monks) and gain 5 levels per number of ursan players. (AKA: Say 'Hi' to level 55 Titans with UB) a)then we are right back to the death of PUGs we had before UB b)I like that minus the huge recharge time c)I agree with the knockdown target only d)IMHO the skill has done a lot for the game, as far as PUGs go. I believe you should still be able to use in all areas. But it is IMBA at the moment. e)now thats just mean 
IslandHermet
Quote:
Originally Posted by MirkoTeran
a) Remove it. Easy.
b) Make it enchantment and give it huge recharge time. c) Reduce damage by 2/3 and make KD target only. d) Restrict usage to Norn areas. e) Leave it as it is. If more then 1 player in team has UB then 3/4 of enemy mobs get UB (the rest turn to monks) and gain 5 levels per number of ursan players. (AKA: Say 'Hi' to level 55 Titans with UB) He said in his post (lets see if we can nerf it a little not bash its head in with the nerf bat as your post states) just e or only B would be a good enough nerf to limit it.
MithranArkanere
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samscwamch
Personally i would increase the energy cost and remove -1/+1 so you just have permanent energy degen making it harder to keep up. This would also encourage bringing an actual bar with instead of just ursan and a bunch of resses (pardon me but thats all i see), So during that down time your waiting for your energy and the cooldown on Ursan to wear off your still going to be able to fight and be usefull.
The degen is already permanent.
Please read the behaviour of the skill before suggesting changes: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ursan_Blessing The best possible change is removing armor and primary attribute benefits: - No extra AL from armor pieces. - No extra energy from armor pieces. - No extra effects like knockdown increase or physical damage reduction from warrior insignias and runes. - No extra energy from primary attribute. Things like those.
Cebe
Moved to PvE Skill Discussion.
Heard moko was hungry.
Arbiter_of_Peril
I currently run Slaver's Exile a lot anymore on my monk as a bonder. I currently hate UB with a passion because you don't know how many Ursan W/E that when we tell them to ping thier build they ping a cleverly craft OF build with a normal ping name, but in reality run an Ursan for a group. This ticks me off because... URSAN REMOVES ENCHANTS WHEN USED. Removed enchants with stupid Ursans that dont call UB when used = getting flamed by bonders or just dont get bonded at all and whine when they die.
I personally do not like Ursans, I dont like how powerful the skill is especially with the AoE Knockdown, sure it easy to vanq with other Ursans, but I'll Vanq the Sabway thank you. My verdict Ursan Buff : Remove Enchant Removal Ursan Nerf : Remove AoE Knock Down put it one foe, the first attack shouldn't be a touch but a melee attack so Armor/Blind/Defensive Stance make it useless, as well as reduce the damage of the skills. For that kind of Energy degen the skill is way too powerful
Arbiter_of_Peril
Sab made vanquishing easier by doing something people have a hard time doing, creating hero builds that synergize with each other. Sab took 3 Necros and made them work better than normal people. Where on the other hand tards take Ursan stick it on a bar and call it a build. A build is carefully crafted so the skills synergize well with each other and the team. Sure Ursan synergizes well with itself but that is because it is overpowered.
For the record I've always like Necros because behind every great monk there is a good necro Behind every lame Ursan is another LAME Ursan.
Akolo
i would like only a minor nerf. either increase ene degen, remove some dmg, make knockdown only one target, or make the touch skills attack skills instead. (btw have you ever seen a bear knockdown 20 ppl around it? dont think so)
English Warrior
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Originally Posted by pfaile
I say leave it alone, I am really sorry so many have a problem with others having fun. GET OVER IT. If you want to go crawl thorough an area for 3 to 6 hours with your "elite" builds, go ahead, NO ONE is stopping you.
Just my two pennies. I just wish there was an official poll, that way the nerf crowd would realize how in the minority they really are. And I know this is the first post in the steam engine to get this thread locked. I agree the good thing about ursan is that any profession can use it unlike in the other builds there wasn't builds all around.
- Tain -
A reasonable change, imo, would be a complete overhaul of the skill functionality. Instead of replacing your whole bar (which is the biggest crime Ursan commits - making almost all of the other thousands of skills irrelevant) have the norn blessings give a bonus while in effect, in the same model as the derv avatars. Keep your skill bar, have it grant a bonus (something like +100 hp, +10 armor, %chance to KD on attack) last for Z duration and is disabled for Z*1.5 seconds. Not going to happen, but would be the most balanced way to deal with it.
Fried Tech
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Originally Posted by - Tain -
A reasonable change, imo, would be a complete overhaul of the skill functionality. Instead of replacing your whole bar (which is the biggest crime Ursan commits - making almost all of the other thousands of skills irrelevant) have the norn blessings give a bonus while in effect, in the same model as the derv avatars. Keep your skill bar, have it grant a bonus (something like +100 hp, +10 armor, %chance to KD on attack) last for Z duration and is disabled for Z*1.5 seconds. Not going to happen, but would be the most balanced way to deal with it.
I like that idea, as long as it is not limited to being used in Norn territory.
I still think that the skill has been able to breathe new life into PUGs and where they can go, so it would be nice to see it being used in all areas, not just norn.
Abedeus
-Tain-'s idea is nice. But also only 2-3 players with Elite PvE skill would be nice.
mazey vorstagg
Make the KD single target only and take away the armor boost.
Ekelon
Fix all the bugs in Ursan (in accordane to weapon sets, etc.) and then nerf the damage a bit.
gw_poster
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Originally Posted by MirkoTeran
b) Make it enchantment and give it huge recharge time.
/signed 1234567
Tyla
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Originally Posted by MisterT69
There's nothing to nerf. Maybe change it to only 3 ppl may equip at 1 time? But nonetheless, why nerf Ursan? Why not nerf Sabway? It makes HM look easier than NM. So let's have an SS nerf. Let's say...30 sec recharge. 15 dmg, 15 energy cost, only affect foe? Or another soul reaping nerf? Or even better, a death nova nerf. Wowzers, vanquishing just got a whole lot tougher it seems. Ursan isn't the only way to fly through the game. Sabway has made the vanquisher title easier than a drunk girl at a bar.
And believe me, Anet has other things to work on than drunk girls at bars :P If you want to nerf Sabway, directly nerf Weakness. I would be happy if all Sabway, Imbagon and Ursan got nerfed at the same time -- it's a good trade off. But Tain's idea is very nice...
- Tain -
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Originally Posted by - Tain -
Snip, pure genius.
To add to this: people have commented on balancing it out between professions. If we modeled them after derv avatars we would alter each blessing, not just ursan. So, each blessing would benefit a character in a different way - maybe ursan would be more beneficial to a phys, while raven blessing would do more on a caster's bar.
FoxBat
Kill the area KD, that's all that is needed.
Sabway nerf: make minions into low-priority targets would be a big start. Fried Tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by - Tain -
To add to this: people have commented on balancing it out between professions. If we modeled them after derv avatars we would alter each blessing, not just ursan. So, each blessing would benefit a character in a different way - maybe ursan would be more beneficial to a phys, while raven blessing would do more on a caster's bar.
another good idea.
so to balance between professions maybe make it: War: +armor (no change) Ele: + energy (no change) Nec: Soul Reaping (no change) Mes: Fast casting (UB skills active and recharge 1/3 faster) Derv: Multiple Hits from wpn (no change) Paras: Energy from shouts (no change as skill 3 is a shout) Monk: Health after using skills (+10 HP to nearby allies) Rit: ???? Sin: ???? Ranger: ???? Then follow those up with a nerf to energy degen (from -2 to -4 degen for all classes) And a target only KD. Take away the +armor for certain classes. And apply all this to other blessings as well? As for nerfing Sabway, I don't think that it would really have an impact on the community. I know that my necro builds have nothing in common with Sabway other than the fact that its 3 Necro heros. But lets try to stay on topic. Something like that? If I totally messed that up let me know
Koning
Don't need to change anything other than making the touch skill a normal attack skill (melee maybe). That way it's affected by blind/anti melee hexes etc. Goodbye ursan in doa.
Also, either make the KD skill target 1 enemy, or make it spell or something (maybe even cost energy).
Pyro maniac
remove knockdown, lower damage to 1...10 (both skills)
- Tain -
@ Fried Tech: not what I meant... affecting different profs in different ways is too complicated. I was referring to having the bonus from one blessing being something that would benefit a physical char, while another blessing would be something that benefits a caster - this as opposed to the idea that one blessing should be equally useful for all chars.
@ Koning: Good, but it's still a broken skill. No single skill should remove the need to have a skill bar. I think that was ursan's fundamental flaw - they made the skills overpowered because you only are able to use ursan skills while affected by ursan blessing. If you still had 7 slots to form a viable build with, it would be a lot less game-breaking. It can still be good, but one skill shouldn't remove the need to run a full bar, even in pve.
Jetdoc
Easiest (and most painless) way to nerf ursan would be to remove the ability to knockdown and make the touch skill an attack skill.
Fried Tech
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Originally Posted by - Tain -
@ Fried Tech: not what I meant... affecting different profs in different ways is too complicated. I was referring to having the bonus from one blessing being something that would benefit a physical char, while another blessing would be something that benefits a caster - this as opposed to the idea that one blessing should be equally useful for all chars.
Gotcha, and that makes more sense. That would also make it so some players might actually use the other blessings *gasp!
I always wondered if the volven shout would have an effect on minion damage..., and the raven blessing is pretty useless as is. great comments everyone
Dr Strangelove
Change the skill description to:
For 7 seconds, each time you cast a spell, you gain 1...3 Energy and 5...17 Health for each Enchantment on you.
- Tain -
Compare the the other elite blessings? My point is that there is nothing comparable. It's broken and overdone, doesn't fit and doesn't belong.
Racthoh
Ursan Strike to attack skill, maybe set all attributes to 0.
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Quote: Change the skill description to:
For 7 seconds, each time you cast a spell, you gain 1...3 Energy and 5...17 Health for each Enchantment on you. Epic.
upier
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Originally Posted by - Tain -
Compare the the other elite blessings? My point is that there is nothing comparable. It's broken and overdone, doesn't fit and doesn't belong.
What we have is a PvE only version of Eviscerate (Ursan) and two PvE only version of Soldier's Stance (the other two). So to speak.
And yeah - it is broken, it is overdone, it doesn't fit and it doesn't belong. But that there is pretty much 90% of PvE. Ursan is as broken as getting hit for 1k damage by Molotov. Or that Mountain Heart wurm. Ursan isn't the problem here - it's PvE. And PvE won't get better if we were to kill off Ursan. PvE will still be as broken as ever - it's just that less people will be able to abuse it. And considering we are dealing with (pretty much) a single player game here - where is the point in that? Why exclude others if there is no gain in doing so? It would be one thing if the game would the be rebalanced for a world WITHOUT Ursan after it's "removal". That way it would be totally understandable to remove everything that is bad. But they never do. So why not just NOT use it?
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Change the skill description to:
For 7 seconds, each time you cast a spell, you gain 1...3 Energy and 5...17 Health for each Enchantment on you. Marry me.
- Tain -
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Originally Posted by upier
So why not just NOT use it?
As I've said, I agree... the thread topic is a theoretical "what would you do to this skill" - not a debate on whether balancing pve is necessary.
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