That's easy:
Ursan Blessing doesn't give any armor boost.
How Would You NERF Ursan?
StormDragonZ
draxynnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain Fz
Ursan needs no nerf!
You earn your way to r# norn, so you should damn get it as a reward!
But if you absolutely insist, reducing the armor bonus of 20 to 15 or 10 would be nice without turning people off from the skill.
But Ursan does NOT have the highest dps in the game.
Just Raven Blessing and Volfen blessing need better uses doesn't mean to nerf Ursan >_> This in a game that attracted much of it's original fanbase by, you know, not requiring hours of grind to be up to scratch...
Why is it that so many people fail to understand that even in RPG-style games it's possible to get better by getting better at using existing mechanics and instead feel that you need to be getting bigger numbers all the time as a reward for repetition?
But to go back on topic: I'd say that making them Dervish-style avatars would have been better than their current version. cellardweller's suggestion for Raven has an inbuilt knockdown immunity, and you could simply make taking the form being a sufficient condition to sniff out the Nornbear or break down barricades in those missions. (And in nornbear, you don't actually need to sniff him out once you know where he spawns anyway...)
Failing that, and because such a major rebuild of skills is probably more than we can expect, I'd probably go with making Strike an attack skill (although there'd have to be something to make sure it doesn't multihit with a scythe. Possibly make it a skill that replaces your next attack with an Ursan Strike attack, so it only applies to the first scythe target?) and Rage only hit a single target. That way, you can serve to remove some of the self-synergy, and make it so that at least some anti-melee counters work (which wouldn't stop Ursans everywhere, of course, but would mean there are at least SOME areas where they aren't godly.)
You earn your way to r# norn, so you should damn get it as a reward!
But if you absolutely insist, reducing the armor bonus of 20 to 15 or 10 would be nice without turning people off from the skill.
But Ursan does NOT have the highest dps in the game.
Just Raven Blessing and Volfen blessing need better uses doesn't mean to nerf Ursan >_> This in a game that attracted much of it's original fanbase by, you know, not requiring hours of grind to be up to scratch...
Why is it that so many people fail to understand that even in RPG-style games it's possible to get better by getting better at using existing mechanics and instead feel that you need to be getting bigger numbers all the time as a reward for repetition?
But to go back on topic: I'd say that making them Dervish-style avatars would have been better than their current version. cellardweller's suggestion for Raven has an inbuilt knockdown immunity, and you could simply make taking the form being a sufficient condition to sniff out the Nornbear or break down barricades in those missions. (And in nornbear, you don't actually need to sniff him out once you know where he spawns anyway...)
Failing that, and because such a major rebuild of skills is probably more than we can expect, I'd probably go with making Strike an attack skill (although there'd have to be something to make sure it doesn't multihit with a scythe. Possibly make it a skill that replaces your next attack with an Ursan Strike attack, so it only applies to the first scythe target?) and Rage only hit a single target. That way, you can serve to remove some of the self-synergy, and make it so that at least some anti-melee counters work (which wouldn't stop Ursans everywhere, of course, but would mean there are at least SOME areas where they aren't godly.)
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by draxynnic
snip
I think you might be onto something...It'll still be quite broken, though. Just a little less powerful.
yum
want to nerf it?
Increase armor =>50, hp to 400.
Then add exhaustion to all of the sub skills.
Increase armor =>50, hp to 400.
Then add exhaustion to all of the sub skills.
Fried Tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by draxynnic
But to go back on topic: I'd say that making them Dervish-style avatars would have been better than their current version. cellardweller's suggestion for Raven has an inbuilt knockdown immunity, and you could simply make taking the form being a sufficient condition to sniff out the Nornbear or break down barricades in those missions. (And in nornbear, you don't actually need to sniff him out once you know where he spawns anyway...)
Failing that, and because such a major rebuild of skills is probably more than we can expect, I'd probably go with making Strike an attack skill (although there'd have to be something to make sure it doesn't multihit with a scythe. Possibly make it a skill that replaces your next attack with an Ursan Strike attack, so it only applies to the first scythe target?) and Rage only hit a single target. That way, you can serve to remove some of the self-synergy, and make it so that at least some anti-melee counters work (which wouldn't stop Ursans everywhere, of course, but would mean there are at least SOME areas where they aren't godly.) That seems to be a pretty good summary of the popular ideas. keep them coming
acerbity
remove the energy degen and make it +20..70 armor
blackknight1337
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
A -- I don't play Ursan, so how was I supposed to know the proper damage? Regardless, 150 armour-ignoring damage every 3 seconds is still pretty screwed up coming from ONE SKILL.
B -- I said SINGLE SKILL, that implies Ursan Strike, not Ursan Rage, which even says on the description "Physical damage".
C -- Ursan can do perma-SY aswell. Once Ursan is off, AR + FGJ should have SY permanent for FGJ's duration. Note that Racthoh's Paragon setup is a full character, Ursan allows 12 skills altogether -- Ursan, *4 Ursan skills*, 7 skills left with no elite slot and 2 PvE-only skills left. Totem of Man excluded. Ok, so you don't play ursan. I guess that somehow makes you better then the rest of us now or something? Mind saying why you are in here posting about how anet should nerf it if you don't even know numbers on the skill?
Ursan doing perma-SY, lol. First of all, your assuming that all Ursans are Paragon/Warrior then? Well gee, if my primary was a imbagon, do you think I'd bother with Ursan? But its not. The whole point of having ursan blessing on a bar is to be in ursan all the time, during every fight.
My primary happens to be a monk. I use ursan plenty for vanquishing with H/H these days, simply because the AI sucks so bad at killing things, or killing the right thing, reguardless of whether its the called target or not. As far as the ursan groups in Slavers, UW/FoW, and DoA, I honestly could care less. 90% of them are brainless people who know almost nothing about GW and fail at using Ursan anyway. Prices on items from those places are low enough already, but saying that prices would rise if you nerf ursan is bull anyway.
B -- I said SINGLE SKILL, that implies Ursan Strike, not Ursan Rage, which even says on the description "Physical damage".
C -- Ursan can do perma-SY aswell. Once Ursan is off, AR + FGJ should have SY permanent for FGJ's duration. Note that Racthoh's Paragon setup is a full character, Ursan allows 12 skills altogether -- Ursan, *4 Ursan skills*, 7 skills left with no elite slot and 2 PvE-only skills left. Totem of Man excluded. Ok, so you don't play ursan. I guess that somehow makes you better then the rest of us now or something? Mind saying why you are in here posting about how anet should nerf it if you don't even know numbers on the skill?
Ursan doing perma-SY, lol. First of all, your assuming that all Ursans are Paragon/Warrior then? Well gee, if my primary was a imbagon, do you think I'd bother with Ursan? But its not. The whole point of having ursan blessing on a bar is to be in ursan all the time, during every fight.
My primary happens to be a monk. I use ursan plenty for vanquishing with H/H these days, simply because the AI sucks so bad at killing things, or killing the right thing, reguardless of whether its the called target or not. As far as the ursan groups in Slavers, UW/FoW, and DoA, I honestly could care less. 90% of them are brainless people who know almost nothing about GW and fail at using Ursan anyway. Prices on items from those places are low enough already, but saying that prices would rise if you nerf ursan is bull anyway.
N1ghtstalker
it's fine
leave it be
leave it be
Tobimaru
For me this problem is simple to be solved. You shouldn't be able to use ursan blessing in elite areas such as DoA, FoW/UW etc. I know... pretty drastic but people overuse ursan blessing.
Fried Tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Ursan allows 12 skills altogether -- Ursan, *4 Ursan skills*, 7 skills left with no elite slot and 2 PvE-only skills left. Totem of Man excluded.
ummm. 7+4=12?
I don't think so. and i still havent seen you suggest anything. Plz stop trolling with your +1's
I don't think so. and i still havent seen you suggest anything. Plz stop trolling with your +1's
Squishy ftw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fried Tech
ummm. 7+4=12?
I don't think so. and i still havent seen you suggest anything. Plz stop trolling with your +1's Ursan blessing (you know, the elite)
4 ursan skills(totem not included)
7 other skills when ursan wears off.
= 12 ?
I think so.
I don't think so. and i still havent seen you suggest anything. Plz stop trolling with your +1's Ursan blessing (you know, the elite)
4 ursan skills(totem not included)
7 other skills when ursan wears off.
= 12 ?
I think so.
llsektorll
i wouldn't because pve noobs would QQ more
Fried Tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy ftw
Ursan blessing (you know, the elite)
4 ursan skills(totem not included)
7 other skills when ursan wears off.
= 12 ?
I think so. Why would you include the skill "ursan blessing" in your count, but not "totem of man"? They do the same thing. One takes you into ursan and the other takes you out. Neither does anything other than that.
so it should either be : 8 skills + 5 UB skills = 13 skills altogether
or
7 skills + 4 UB skills = 11 skills altogether.
Still not 12
4 ursan skills(totem not included)
7 other skills when ursan wears off.
= 12 ?
I think so. Why would you include the skill "ursan blessing" in your count, but not "totem of man"? They do the same thing. One takes you into ursan and the other takes you out. Neither does anything other than that.
so it should either be : 8 skills + 5 UB skills = 13 skills altogether
or
7 skills + 4 UB skills = 11 skills altogether.
Still not 12
Alex the Great
i wouldn't nerf it, as to many people use it and there would be a riot!
Squishy ftw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fried Tech
so it should either be : 8 skills + 5 UB skills = 13 skills altogether
or
7 skills + 4 UB skills = 11 skills altogether.
Still not 12 I agree on that
I'd call it 11 skills.
I was just explaining where HE got his 12 from because it seemed to me like your previous post was only attacking his math skills, instead of explaining why it's not 12(but, indeed, 11 or 13).
or
7 skills + 4 UB skills = 11 skills altogether.
Still not 12 I agree on that
I'd call it 11 skills.
I was just explaining where HE got his 12 from because it seemed to me like your previous post was only attacking his math skills, instead of explaining why it's not 12(but, indeed, 11 or 13).
Fried Tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy ftw
I agree on that
I'd call it 11 skills.
I was just explaining where HE got his 12 from because it seemed to me like your previous post was only attacking his math skills, instead of explaining why it's not 12(but, indeed, 11 or 13). I was attacking his trolling, not his math skills.
I just did it 
style..
I'd call it 11 skills.
I was just explaining where HE got his 12 from because it seemed to me like your previous post was only attacking his math skills, instead of explaining why it's not 12(but, indeed, 11 or 13). I was attacking his trolling, not his math skills.
I just did it
Freezyguy
Why bother nerfing UB? UB can't be used in PvP so you don't have to worry about it there, and the best way to fix PvE problems is to just add more mobs. By simply adding some Mesmers with Energy Surge or Energy Drain, some anti-KD skills, and UB can be quickly countered.
I don't mean to say that there needs to be sweeping additions, but in elite mission areas, adding mobs would be more effective then nerfing skills. Nerfing a skill just creates a delay until the next flavor of the month takes over.
On a side note, there is so much elitist bullshit revolving around UB, people need to just chill out. Omg you got vanquisher with UB, you suck ass. Seriously, it doesn't effect you. Boohoo now more people have KoaBD, torment weapons and what not, but how is using an OF warrior with spikers so much better. OHHHHH but we use more then one skill, but if that AI had half a brain they would just crush you. So maybe the ultimate nerf should be to just upgrade the AI.
I don't mean to say that there needs to be sweeping additions, but in elite mission areas, adding mobs would be more effective then nerfing skills. Nerfing a skill just creates a delay until the next flavor of the month takes over.
On a side note, there is so much elitist bullshit revolving around UB, people need to just chill out. Omg you got vanquisher with UB, you suck ass. Seriously, it doesn't effect you. Boohoo now more people have KoaBD, torment weapons and what not, but how is using an OF warrior with spikers so much better. OHHHHH but we use more then one skill, but if that AI had half a brain they would just crush you. So maybe the ultimate nerf should be to just upgrade the AI.
Richardt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freezyguy
Why bother nerfing UB? UB can't be used in PvP so you don't have to worry about it there, and the best way to fix PvE problems is to just add more mobs. By simply adding some Mesmers with Energy Surge or Energy Drain, some anti-KD skills, and UB can be quickly countered.
I don't mean to say that there needs to be sweeping additions, but in elite mission areas, adding mobs would be more effective then nerfing skills. Nerfing a skill just creates a delay until the next flavor of the month takes over.
On a side note, there is so much elitist bullshit revolving around UB, people need to just chill out. Omg you got vanquisher with UB, you suck ass. Seriously, it doesn't effect you. Boohoo now more people have KoaBD, torment weapons and what not, but how is using an OF warrior with spikers so much better. OHHHHH but we use more then one skill, but if that AI had half a brain they would just crush you. So maybe the ultimate nerf should be to just upgrade the AI. So to counteract an overpowered skill, you would rather make PvE more broken? Introducing more mesmers will just shut down not only Ursan but also other casters!
And your "elitist" comment needs to go-the question isn't the "elitist" attitude that others may/may not have (I'm not denying that it exists, but not every Ursan hater is an Elitist). The problem here is that we have a single overpowered skill (even by PvE skill standards) and creating an open dialogue about possible changes to bring back in line with the other two Norn blessings and PvE skills in general.
And for those thinking that the other skills on your bar matter-they really don't. A person who brings just Ursan will do just as good as someone who brought Ursan and 7 other skills.
I don't mean to say that there needs to be sweeping additions, but in elite mission areas, adding mobs would be more effective then nerfing skills. Nerfing a skill just creates a delay until the next flavor of the month takes over.
On a side note, there is so much elitist bullshit revolving around UB, people need to just chill out. Omg you got vanquisher with UB, you suck ass. Seriously, it doesn't effect you. Boohoo now more people have KoaBD, torment weapons and what not, but how is using an OF warrior with spikers so much better. OHHHHH but we use more then one skill, but if that AI had half a brain they would just crush you. So maybe the ultimate nerf should be to just upgrade the AI. So to counteract an overpowered skill, you would rather make PvE more broken? Introducing more mesmers will just shut down not only Ursan but also other casters!
And your "elitist" comment needs to go-the question isn't the "elitist" attitude that others may/may not have (I'm not denying that it exists, but not every Ursan hater is an Elitist). The problem here is that we have a single overpowered skill (even by PvE skill standards) and creating an open dialogue about possible changes to bring back in line with the other two Norn blessings and PvE skills in general.
And for those thinking that the other skills on your bar matter-they really don't. A person who brings just Ursan will do just as good as someone who brought Ursan and 7 other skills.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackknight1337
Quote:
Quote:
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My primary happens to be a monk. I use ursan plenty for vanquishing with H/H these days, simply because the AI sucks so bad at killing things, or killing the right thing, reguardless of whether its the called target or not. As far as the ursan groups in Slavers, UW/FoW, and DoA, I honestly could care less. 90% of them are brainless people who know almost nothing about GW and fail at using Ursan anyway. Prices on items from those places are low enough already, but saying that prices would rise if you nerf ursan is bull anyway.
I don't care for the economy. I prefer wiping all "Ursan lfg" things off my all chat without turning all chat off. And I've already made a nerf. Slash Delete. Not possible? Nerf the damage to 40 per hit. KD single-target. Shout recharge 30. For the others? Half damage. Nuke the crap out of these skills. Oh yeah, I forgot...nerf the bonuses to 400 health, 20 energy, -1 regen. And thanks for correcting my math...accidents happen.
Koning
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
/Warrior. FGJ, SY. Done. /sigh Do you know what the word perma(nent) means? Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koning
/sigh
Do you know what the word perma(nent) means? Permanent for the time FGJ is up, anyway. FA + FGJ = permanent. UB + FGJ = ...
Kashrlyyk
Maybe they should turn it in some kind of "Finger of Chaos" for players. When activated it just increases certain aspects of the different classes. But Intensity showed they don´t want that either.
legacyofkain85
Quote:
Originally Posted by MirkoTeran
a) Remove it. Easy.
b) Make it enchantment and give it huge recharge time. c) Reduce damage by 2/3 and make KD target only. d) Restrict usage to Norn areas. e) Leave it as it is. If more then 1 player in team has UB then 3/4 of enemy mobs get UB (the rest turn to monks) and gain 5 levels per number of ursan players. (AKA: Say 'Hi' to level 55 Titans with UB) actually a level 55 titan could do more dmg with their normal bars than ursan,hmm shockwave comes in mind
Pyro maniac
Avatars seem a good solution:
Ursan: 10 energy - 2 cast - 15 recharge Skill. For 120 seconds you gain +10 ... +80 armor and you deal +5 ... +15 damage. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. Raven: 10 energy - 2 cast - 15 recharge Skill. For 120 seconds you move and cast 33% faster and conditions and hexes expire 15 ... 50% faster. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. Volfen: 10 energy - 2 cast - 15 recharge Skill. For 120 seconds attack 33% faster and all of your attack skills inflict a deep wound and bleeding. This skill is disabled for 120 seconds. PvE skills with very strong buffs, however the rest of your skill bar does care now. Tyla
I agree with them, Pyro -- Although I do think the timing should be 90 seconds tops.
And Ursan's armour bonus should be maximum 40, along with making the damage a little better. Apart from that, it's nice.
Richardt
If they go with an Avatar version of the Blessings, then the time they last should be linked to the rank in Norn title.
And having all Volfen attacks inflict bleeding and deep wound seems a little extreme-bleeding sure, with perhaps a percent chance of deep wound?
Pyro maniac
donno, just added some numbers/effects
Bront
Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
The thing that's so strong about ursan is that it replaces a bad player's shitty bar with a good one. Even if you nerf the damage/recharge/activation or whatnot, ursan will remain grind>skill.
And that leads to why the idea of having ursan work like a stronger dervish avatar is probably the "best" one. That way, they could also balance the other blessings in relation to this one, so that casters benefit more from say, raven, and physicals benefit more from ursan. Something like: Ursan: 60 seconds. 120 disable. +100..200 health, +10..20 armor, +10..20% chance of causing KD. Raven: 60 seconds. 120 disable. +10..20 energy, +10..20% block rate, spells cast and recharge 10..20% faster. Volfen: 60 seconds. 120 disable. +50..100 health, +1..5 health regen, +10..20% attack and movement speed, +10..20% critical hit. Something like this would be very nice (I'd probably add +10-20 damage with Ursan). Since it's also an Elite, it avoids abuses with some Elites, and means it might not be the best skill to take any any point, depending on your build, and it's still useful at lower levels of Norn
Bront
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
A -- I don't play Ursan, so how was I supposed to know the proper damage? Regardless, 150 armour-ignoring damage every 3 seconds is still pretty screwed up coming from ONE SKILL.
B -- I said SINGLE SKILL, that implies Ursan Strike, not Ursan Rage, which even says on the description "Physical damage". C -- Ursan can do perma-SY aswell. Once Ursan is off, AR + FGJ should have SY permanent for FGJ's duration. Note that Racthoh's Paragon setup is a full character, Ursan allows 12 skills altogether -- Ursan, *4 Ursan skills*, 7 skills left with no elite slot and 2 PvE-only skills left. Totem of Man excluded. Ursan Roar doesn't hurt the DPS, particularly in a large group of ursans. 3 Ursans can keep the skill up constantly.
Marty Silverblade
My idea for a long time was to reduce the intensity of the skills/bonuses for every other ursan in the group. After all, the Bear Spirit is only so strong.
The avatar thing sounds nice though.
ShadowsRequiem
errrr remove it from play. Problem sloved.
Monk Gsb
make it all melee attacks thus making it blindable, missable, and blockable. done.
ManiSan
Ursan Blessing:
You have 600..700hp , 70..80 armor and 30e (same for all classes) Skill 1: type melee attack, physical dmg Skill 2: single target KD , warrior rune ignored (yeah bears, even blessed, dont have runes  )Skill 3: 20 secs recharge, all allies whithin earshot do 6..15 additional dmg Oh.. while im posting here.. A good ursan bar effectively use other skills ! plz mesmers cast frustration on the monk before rushing him ! and "you move like a dwarf, poison preparation, spear swipe, etc... That can save you (someone said Duncan ? ). And btw, ursanway is definitly not a good choice for shards of orr (it is for slavers thougt )
Rene Saliere
I don't play GW anymore because although I have every part in the GW series, including EotN, ursanway has ruined the game for me.
For moral and ethical reasons, like the Lightbringer title is restricted to Nightfall for usefulness, the Norn title should have been restricted to the EotN campaign for usefulness, in the interests of fairness to players without the expansion. This is all any reasonable player should need as an argument against the ursanway stupidity you see in UW, FoW, and of course DoA these days. But this fairness issue is not why I don't play GW anymore. It's because even though I have a Rank 10 Ursan, GW is boring done ursanway. There's a difference between mind numbing grinding and mind warpingly numbing spamming of 1,2,3 same skills every area - elite, mission, quest - normal mode, hard mode regardless... and that difference is ursanway. Goodbye Guild Wars - it was a fun couple years. Fried Tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene Saliere
I don't play GW anymore because although I have every part in the GW series, including EotN, ursanway has ruined the game for me.
For moral and ethical reasons, like the Lightbringer title is restricted to Nightfall for usefulness, the Norn title should have been restricted to the EotN campaign for usefulness, in the interests of fairness to players without the expansion. This is all any reasonable player should need as an argument against the ursanway stupidity you see in UW, FoW, and of course DoA these days. But this fairness issue is not why I don't play GW anymore. It's because even though I have a Rank 10 Ursan, GW is boring done ursanway. There's a difference between mind numbing grinding and mind warpingly numbing spamming of 1,2,3 same skills every area - elite, mission, quest - normal mode, hard mode regardless... and that difference is ursanway. Goodbye Guild Wars - it was a fun couple years. AGAIN! this is not a piss and moan thread! If your leaving fine. no one cares. go cry in a corner by yourself. Now. Back on topic. It looks like the avatar idea is still the popular one. But keep them coming.
Steboy93
Aside from removing Ursan from the game, i really like the avatar idea
The skill remains powerful without totally raping PvE as it does now odly
I would make the skills 1 and 2 have an adrenalin cost.
This would make it vulnerable to melee shutdown (blind/hexes) without totally ruining the skill. A monk dedicated to keeping them clean would be needed in some anti melee area's, but that seems appropriate to me. Since people would soon have another character bring dark fury, The cost should not be negligable. Having other roles in the party would also somewhat counteract the mindlessness of the Ursan teambuild which is one of the things I dislike about it. I was thinking of a cost of 3 and 8 respectivally. Tyla
Sethellington
hey, wait, it almost feels as though I've seen a thread like this before...
no, no, i must be imagining things ;P Rene Saliere
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fried Tech
AGAIN! this is not a piss and moan thread!
If your leaving fine. no one cares. go cry in a corner by yourself. Now. Back on topic. It looks like the avatar idea is still the popular one. But keep them coming.
I didn't realise the thread was troll infested, apologies for my calm reflections on a dead game.I made it pretty clear the only ethical nerf for UB would be to restrict it to EotN or better still, Norn areas. The ethical aspect is one that is new and so worth considering. The mechanics are over argued in my opinion. As far as crying goes, if we must use the favoured troll term of abuse, perhaps some people's crying has stopped because PvE is achievable for them now. My crying started when it got too easy. But I'm glad some trolls *ahem* people can enjoy the game now it has dead/easy-mode. Sorry, please go on with your topic. : ) |
