How Would You NERF Ursan?
Fried Tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by odly
I would make the skills 1 and 2 have an adrenalin cost.
This would make it vulnerable to melee shutdown (blind/hexes) without totally ruining the skill.
A monk dedicated to keeping them clean would be needed in some anti melee area's, but that seems appropriate to me. Since people would soon have another character bring dark fury, The cost should not be negligable.
Having other roles in the party would also somewhat counteract the mindlessness of the Ursan teambuild which is one of the things I dislike about it.
I was thinking of a cost of 3 and 8 respectivally. Nice. Might make a team think about bringing another monk, or possibly a support para.
I would like to see UB teams bring some other role characters as well. If you think about it, all you really need is 3 UB tanks and the rest of the team ( minus healers) could run whatever they want.
This would make it vulnerable to melee shutdown (blind/hexes) without totally ruining the skill.
A monk dedicated to keeping them clean would be needed in some anti melee area's, but that seems appropriate to me. Since people would soon have another character bring dark fury, The cost should not be negligable.
Having other roles in the party would also somewhat counteract the mindlessness of the Ursan teambuild which is one of the things I dislike about it.
I was thinking of a cost of 3 and 8 respectivally. Nice. Might make a team think about bringing another monk, or possibly a support para.
I would like to see UB teams bring some other role characters as well. If you think about it, all you really need is 3 UB tanks and the rest of the team ( minus healers) could run whatever they want.
IslandHermet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene Saliere
I made it pretty clear the only ethical nerf for UB would be to restrict it to EotN or better still, Norn areas. The ethical aspect is one that is new and so worth considering. The mechanics are over argued in my opinion.
As far as crying goes, if we must use the favoured troll term of abuse, perhaps some people's crying has stopped because PvE is achievable for them now. My crying started when it got too easy.
But I'm glad some trolls *ahem* people can enjoy the game now it has dead/easy-mode. Sorry, please go on with your topic. : )
I thought you quit. Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rene Saliere
I don't play GW anymore
Goodbye Guild Wars - it was a fun couple years. Why are you still on the GW forums? Rene Saliere
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandHermet
I thought you quit. Why are you still on the GW forums?
I'm sure you also have a lot of opinions you express that have little to do with your immediate tangible future.
the_jos
The true power of UB is not in the skills themself.
What makes the skill really powerfull is that it takes organizing a team away. You just need X ursan players and Y monks and you are set. No dedicated tank just put everyone except monks in frontline, preferable in a way no foes can get around. Smash buttons and go. UB as skill is not that powerfull. I've seen at least 2 times that a team did not get consumables up or forgot to put them up when they went down at Duncan and in FoW, both Hard Mode. What could have been an easy ride suddenly becomes a struggle. Pop up the consumables and all of a sudden it's possible to manage things again. Meaning that a decent organized team build powered by consumables could probably outperform an unorganized UB team. The only teams where I see UB used a lot are what I would call unorganized or even PUG. Those need an 'easy' team build, something UB gives. When looking at nerfs for UB it's impossible to ignore the influence of consumables. The current UB craze is nothing more than the average PUG team build hidden in a bear form. It does the job and is relatively safe to play for unexperienced players. It makes teaming easy, just as every elite area had their own set of team builds before to make teaming easy. Deep: steel wall, Urgoz's: Trapper team, DoA: Kaiz's build. I don't feel that UB should be nerfed, I think people should become a little more creative with other builds. Fried Tech
how about a nerf making it so consumables have no effect on People in Ursan. The Norn are supposed to be a proud race. So it would make sense if they thought cons were "for the weak" and therefore didn't use them.
Go into Ursan and con effects disappear. Come out and they come back. Or make it necissary to have the Norn title equiped to get the bonus from UB. While the Norn title is up cons have no effect. Zahr Dalsk
Drop the armour ignoring ability. Make the damage affected by armour. Make the knockdown and damage of Ursan Rage only affect the targeted enemy. Same goes for Ursan Roar - it only weakens the target and only affects you.
Make it put your primary attribute to 0. Make it lock your energy maximum at 20 - regardless of weapon boosts and insignias. Drop the energy gain on taking/dealing damage. Thus with 20 energy and 2 degen and no way of regaining energy, it will become a temporary bonus used briefly in battle and only last about 30 seconds. (You can also drop Totem of Man since Ursan will end when the Totem is ready anyways.) The only way to keep it up will be with a Zealous weapon, and even that won't last forever. Noobs will still love it, but a good Warrior will have MUCH better damage capabilities.
pfaile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fried Tech
how about a nerf making it so consumables have no effect on People in Ursan. The Norn are supposed to be a proud race. So it would make sense if they thought cons were "for the weak" and therefore didn't use them.
Go into Ursan and con effects disappear. Come out and they come back. Or make it necissary to have the Norn title equiped to get the bonus from UB. While the Norn title is up cons have no effect. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Eyja Proud enough to craft, but to prideful to use? Fried Tech
Ate of DK
I'd take out the energy gain from attacking/being hit.
This way Ursan-way could still play through the elite area's but would take about the same time to complete it as a normal build. Which sounds more fair. Molock
Ursan Strike
Full: You deal 40...75 physical damage to target foe twice. If this attack fails to hit, it is disabled for 10 seconds. *basicly, make the touch skill a normal melee attack and cause it to be disabled if it fails to hit. Ursan Rage Full: You deal 60...135 physical damage to target touched foe and all adjacent enemies. Target foe is knocked down for 3 seconds. *basicly, make the skill hit all foes adjacent to the touched target. In the same way Signet of Judgement works, but a touch skill, only the target foe is knocked down. Ursan Roar Full: For 2...5 seconds, all enemies within earshot are Weakened and all allies deal +5..15 damage per attack. *increase the recharge to 20 seconds. Ursan Force Full: For 8..14 seconds, you move 20..33% faster *increase recharge to 16 seconds. Ursan Blessing itself now Full: You take on the aspect of the bear. Your energy returns to 75% and you have -2 Energy degeneration. You have +10...20 armor and +100...200 maximum Health. All Enchantments upon you are removed. Bear attacks replace your skills. You gain Energy every time you take or deal damage. This Skill ends when your Energy drops to 0. All your skills are disabled for 6 seconds when this Skill ends. *increase recharge to 45 seconds. There you go, that is what I would change to Ursan.
RiceCream
easy way to nerf ursan...make it only usable in Norn areas
gg learn to play your clases
legacyofkain85
i woould make a minor nerf,delete it from the game (slowly reaching for that flame shield).Seriously now,i dont see a way to nerf it without destroying it ,so mi sugestion would be not to nerf it but insted buff the other 2 blessings which kinda totally suck compared to ursan,than maybe we could see people run wolven and raven blessing to
Arsalan
Simple: I wouldnt. Its a great addition for the not so hihgly skilled players.
Turtle222
Leave it as it is, its not compulsory to use, and if you pug...then you're a noob arn't you? amirite?
/rolleyes
Richardt
Quote:
Originally Posted by legacyofkain85
i woould make a minor nerf,delete it from the game (slowly reaching for that flame shield).Seriously now,i dont see a way to nerf it without destroying it ,so mi sugestion would be not to nerf it but insted buff the other 2 blessings which kinda totally suck compared to ursan,than maybe we could see people run wolven and raven blessing to
So instead of one overpowered skill, you want to have 3?
Fried Tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardt
So instead of one overpowered skill, you want to have 3?
lol. exactly what I thought
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardt
So instead of one overpowered skill, you want to have 3?
Lol. At least it won't all be about bears. We might see some wolves and ravens too.
Clarissa F
Maybe they are getting us used to the separation between PvE and PvP they announced with GW2. In the present game the only way they can make separate skills is with the PvE skills and the blessings. Of course, they went a bit far by making them overpowered; and I'm talking about most of the skills. You think Ursan is overpowered? Try a team with imbagons spamming TNtF and SY.
I look at Ursan as being used by either casual players that want to experience challenging areas a bit easier, experienced players who don't want to be bothered with taking forever to walk through an area, or bad players who need a crutch to make themselves feel "leet". Screw 'em. If they want to play that way, fine. BTW....what is the release date of Age of Conan, again?
Powerful White Man
Delete It.
The End. Rene Saliere
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
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While we're at it maybe some ranged damage/support build chassis is in order... a bow using archetype that everyone can call Legolas... Rangers! And maybe a paladin-esque archetype... hmmm Paragon is a nice name!
But how dull a fantasy based game would be without some magic - if only for the coloured lights! We'll need some kind of fireball/lightning archetype... I like the sound of Elementalist! And some kind of negative energy based caster... what about a dude who can raise legions of undead! Necromancer sounds like a cool name. Speaking of restless spirits, let's make a more benign spirit caller available and call it the, hmmm... Ritualist!
Finally we'll need some kind of counterspell archetype to keep all that magic power under control - especially for PvP - let's call it the Mesmer!
I just hope that they try and balance out the professions so that no one build/archetype dominates 99% of the game - like 'bear form' - or anything like that because that would make Guild Wars really boring and stupid.
Richardt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarissa F
Of course, they went a bit far by making them overpowered; and I'm talking about most of the skills. You think Ursan is overpowered? Try a team with imbagons spamming TNtF and SY.
Couple things wrong here.
1) A team normally takes only 1 Imbagon-any more and it's a waste (unless you're trying some sort of split tatics).
2) In order to sustain SY!, you need to have half of your skill bar dedicated to running just that one skill. With Ursan, it's just that-bring the blessing and you're off. The rest of your bar is basically window dressing.
So how can we spam ANet to get the avatar idea going?
Couple things wrong here.
1) A team normally takes only 1 Imbagon-any more and it's a waste (unless you're trying some sort of split tatics).
2) In order to sustain SY!, you need to have half of your skill bar dedicated to running just that one skill. With Ursan, it's just that-bring the blessing and you're off. The rest of your bar is basically window dressing.
So how can we spam ANet to get the avatar idea going?
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerful White Man
Delete It.
The End. quoted for epic truth
The End. quoted for epic truth
Rene Saliere
Wait I finally have a good nerf idea:
To be able to participate in Hard Mode you have to complete a campaign with a character on your account.
To be able to participate in Easy Mode (ie: ursanway), you should need to have failed all the quests in a campaign.
To be able to participate in Hard Mode you have to complete a campaign with a character on your account.
To be able to participate in Easy Mode (ie: ursanway), you should need to have failed all the quests in a campaign.
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene Saliere
I just hope that they try and balance out the professions so that no one build/archetype dominates 99% of the game - like 'bear form' - or anything like that because that would make Guild Wars really boring and stupid.
Fat chance. With GW2 coming along, GW isn't getting enough attention and UB basically dominates PvE. ANET also has no intention of removing it either.
KennyC
Get rid of Ursan its bloody ridiculous!
nembool
Anybody here played the Bonus Mission Pack quests? For those who haven't, Togo's story has him using a skill called Dragon Empire Rage which is an area effect nuke. But it has to be charged up by killing a certain amount of enemies first (usual progress bar showing how charged it is).
Why not introduce this for Ursan/Raven/Volfen? You could then stage the amount of kills needed to fill the progress bar and charge the Blessing skills, so that the more powerful Blessing (read: Ursan) takes say 30 kills to charge up, whilst Volfen and Raven take respectively less kills to offset their relative unpopularity or perceived weaknesses compared to Ursan.
This would, at least, force Ursan players to develop some semblance of skill at the game in order to charge Ursan, especially in Hard Mode/Elite areas.
Why not introduce this for Ursan/Raven/Volfen? You could then stage the amount of kills needed to fill the progress bar and charge the Blessing skills, so that the more powerful Blessing (read: Ursan) takes say 30 kills to charge up, whilst Volfen and Raven take respectively less kills to offset their relative unpopularity or perceived weaknesses compared to Ursan.
This would, at least, force Ursan players to develop some semblance of skill at the game in order to charge Ursan, especially in Hard Mode/Elite areas.
stretchs
Ursan while it has it's bashers, it has allowed many different people in many different professions the ability to do things they would have never been able to. The holy trinity was the only thing prior to get play.
If I were to adjust Ursan, which I think it could use some tinkering to make it more fitting to gw's previous mechanics. I would def make the dual attack melee instead of whatever nonsense it is, that way a blind, or hex could prevent you from doing so. As well, removing ALL att lines would probably not work, as for an ele his energy goes to bubkis, but outside of them, turning all the primary atts to 0 would make a large difference. Besides those things though, I really see no problem with the skill as it opens to door to far too many people to play at higher levels instead of being very exclusionary.
If I were to adjust Ursan, which I think it could use some tinkering to make it more fitting to gw's previous mechanics. I would def make the dual attack melee instead of whatever nonsense it is, that way a blind, or hex could prevent you from doing so. As well, removing ALL att lines would probably not work, as for an ele his energy goes to bubkis, but outside of them, turning all the primary atts to 0 would make a large difference. Besides those things though, I really see no problem with the skill as it opens to door to far too many people to play at higher levels instead of being very exclusionary.
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by nembool
Anybody here played the Bonus Mission Pack quests? For those who haven't, Togo's story has him using a skill called Dragon Empire Rage which is an area effect nuke. But it has to be charged up by killing a certain amount of enemies first (usual progress bar showing how charged it is).
Why not introduce this for Ursan/Raven/Volfen? You could then stage the amount of kills needed to fill the progress bar and charge the Blessing skills, so that the more powerful Blessing (read: Ursan) takes say 30 kills to charge up, whilst Volfen and Raven take respectively less kills to offset their relative unpopularity or perceived weaknesses compared to Ursan.
This would, at least, force Ursan players to develop some semblance of skill at the game in order to charge Ursan, especially in Hard Mode/Elite areas. This won't work because UB takes up the elite and who the hell wants to pick someone without an elite? It also depends on the number of character though so you MAY be able to get by.
Why not introduce this for Ursan/Raven/Volfen? You could then stage the amount of kills needed to fill the progress bar and charge the Blessing skills, so that the more powerful Blessing (read: Ursan) takes say 30 kills to charge up, whilst Volfen and Raven take respectively less kills to offset their relative unpopularity or perceived weaknesses compared to Ursan.
This would, at least, force Ursan players to develop some semblance of skill at the game in order to charge Ursan, especially in Hard Mode/Elite areas. This won't work because UB takes up the elite and who the hell wants to pick someone without an elite? It also depends on the number of character though so you MAY be able to get by.
nembool
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
This won't work because UB takes up the elite and who the hell wants to pick someone without an elite? It also depends on the number of character though so you MAY be able to get by.
Ignoring the fact that many people DO play without an elite skill, your reply is wrong for two reasons.
One: You have an elite, Ursan Blessing.
Two: Many elites are situational and depend upon conditions being met in order for them to be optimal, or even activate at all.
The OP requested just some thoughts on how we, as individuals, would nerf Ursan. I think my idea, that doesn't actually nerf it at all as there are no suggested changes to the skill functionality when in Ursan mode, works for the reasons I stated in my last paragraph.
One: You have an elite, Ursan Blessing.
Two: Many elites are situational and depend upon conditions being met in order for them to be optimal, or even activate at all.
The OP requested just some thoughts on how we, as individuals, would nerf Ursan. I think my idea, that doesn't actually nerf it at all as there are no suggested changes to the skill functionality when in Ursan mode, works for the reasons I stated in my last paragraph.
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by nembool
Ignoring the fact that many people DO play without an elite skill, your reply is wrong for two reasons.
Ummm no people don't play without elites unless they don't have them.
[QUOTE=nemboolOne: You have an elite, Ursan Blessing.
Two: Many elites are situational and depend upon conditions being met in order for them to be optimal, or even activate at all.
The OP requested just some thoughts on how we, as individuals, would nerf Ursan. I think my idea, that doesn't actually nerf it at all as there are no suggested changes to the skill functionality when in Ursan mode, works for the reasons I stated in my last paragraph.[/QUOTE]
I specifically said that Ursan takes up the Elite spot and that people won't pick a person who can't use their elite unless they fill some other requirement.
For your second reason, if you are referring to conditions and hexes, you have to consider why did you bring it in the first place. Divert Hex for example, would be useless if there is no hexes so bringing it would be pointless unless there are alot of hexes in the area.
People don't use Volfen/Raven anyway so the kill limit doesn't really effect them.
Besides when the UB are all deactivated, they become fairly useless.
[QUOTE=nemboolOne: You have an elite, Ursan Blessing.
Two: Many elites are situational and depend upon conditions being met in order for them to be optimal, or even activate at all.
The OP requested just some thoughts on how we, as individuals, would nerf Ursan. I think my idea, that doesn't actually nerf it at all as there are no suggested changes to the skill functionality when in Ursan mode, works for the reasons I stated in my last paragraph.[/QUOTE]
I specifically said that Ursan takes up the Elite spot and that people won't pick a person who can't use their elite unless they fill some other requirement.
For your second reason, if you are referring to conditions and hexes, you have to consider why did you bring it in the first place. Divert Hex for example, would be useless if there is no hexes so bringing it would be pointless unless there are alot of hexes in the area.
People don't use Volfen/Raven anyway so the kill limit doesn't really effect them.
Besides when the UB are all deactivated, they become fairly useless.
nembool
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
Ummm no people don't play without elites unless they don't have them.
I specifically said that Ursan takes up the Elite spot and that people won't pick a person who can't use their elite unless they fill some other requirement.
For your second reason, if you are referring to conditions and hexes, you have to consider why did you bring it in the first place. Divert Hex for example, would be useless if there is no hexes so bringing it would be pointless unless there are alot of hexes in the area.
People don't use Volfen/Raven anyway so the kill limit doesn't really effect them.
Besides when the UB are all deactivated, they become fairly useless. If someone can make a workable build without an Elite skill, and groups advertising for players cannot recognise this, then those groups deserve to fail.
Secondly, I'm not referring to conditions such as Bleeding. I'm referring to the set of circumstances that must exist in order to use a skill. To use your example, if you bring Divert Hexes, there must be hexes to divert or the skill slot is wasted. It's the existence of a circumstance needed to effectively use the skill I refer to.
If my suggestion were to be implemented, and let's face it, Arenanet won't change anything about Ursan/Volfen/Raven now, then people might use the lesser blessings simply because they activate faster.
And whilst an inactive/recharging Ursan Blessing is useless, the player who uses UB as an elite is not. He still has seven other skill slots with which to perform effectively as a member of a team. If he can't, he's a bad player.
I specifically said that Ursan takes up the Elite spot and that people won't pick a person who can't use their elite unless they fill some other requirement.
For your second reason, if you are referring to conditions and hexes, you have to consider why did you bring it in the first place. Divert Hex for example, would be useless if there is no hexes so bringing it would be pointless unless there are alot of hexes in the area.
People don't use Volfen/Raven anyway so the kill limit doesn't really effect them.
Besides when the UB are all deactivated, they become fairly useless. If someone can make a workable build without an Elite skill, and groups advertising for players cannot recognise this, then those groups deserve to fail.
Secondly, I'm not referring to conditions such as Bleeding. I'm referring to the set of circumstances that must exist in order to use a skill. To use your example, if you bring Divert Hexes, there must be hexes to divert or the skill slot is wasted. It's the existence of a circumstance needed to effectively use the skill I refer to.
If my suggestion were to be implemented, and let's face it, Arenanet won't change anything about Ursan/Volfen/Raven now, then people might use the lesser blessings simply because they activate faster.
And whilst an inactive/recharging Ursan Blessing is useless, the player who uses UB as an elite is not. He still has seven other skill slots with which to perform effectively as a member of a team. If he can't, he's a bad player.
Tyla
Builds can work without an elite skill...
True, but who wouldn't use an elite skill?
Having it like that would make it extremely situational, not a nerf, but a nuke.
In that case, Imbagon should take a hit too.
But the point still stands, if you're not going to use an elite skill, you're either extremely stupid or extremely bad.
Taking advantage of skills that can be used straight off and not have a kill buildup is good.
True, but who wouldn't use an elite skill?
Having it like that would make it extremely situational, not a nerf, but a nuke.
In that case, Imbagon should take a hit too.
But the point still stands, if you're not going to use an elite skill, you're either extremely stupid or extremely bad.
Taking advantage of skills that can be used straight off and not have a kill buildup is good.
la_cabra_de_vida
Seriously why do you people care about ursan or it being op? Its PVE? Who cares?
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by la_cabra_de_vida
Seriously why do you people care about ursan or it being op? Its PVE? Who cares?
This entire thread is brimming with reasons for both supporting and hating Ursan. You can easily find them if you look back.
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by nembool
Quote: Originally Posted by nembool If my suggestion were to be implemented, and let's face it, Arenanet won't change anything about Ursan/Volfen/Raven now, then people might use the lesser blessings simply because they activate faster. I don't think other people will turn to the other blessings but rather other more overpowered builds such as Imbagon and D-slash warriors.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by nembool
And whilst an inactive/recharging Ursan Blessing is useless, the player who uses UB as an elite is not. He still has seven other skill slots with which to perform effectively as a member of a team. If he can't, he's a bad player.
Depends what you mean by effectively. Depending on your class, the role you play may be different depending whether you're in Ursan or not; it may lead to a ineffectual team. Besides, many of those who rely on Ursan don't have good builds anyway.
nembool
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
All builds are workable but what you want is optimal.
I don't think other people will turn to the other blessings but rather other more overpowered builds such as Imbagon and D-slash warriors. Depends what you mean by effectively. Depending on your class, the role you play may be different depending whether you're in Ursan or not; it may lead to a ineffectual team. Besides, many of those who rely on Ursan don't have good builds anyway. Kinda depends on the situation. I'll run a less-than-optimal build if it's fun to use. I'm trying out Blood Magic builds on my necro at the moment, despite the fact it's well known as a weak skill line compared to Curses. Perhaps in putting a case against Ursan, we're missing the point? Using any of the blessings, regardless of how they compare to each other, means that a player has effectively twelve skills whereas a player not using Blessings only has eight. This is obviously imbalanced even compared to Imbagon or D-Slash SY. Maybe the skill Totem of Man should be adjusted so that switching out of Ursan, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, is worse? Perhaps instead of losing all energy, the penalty should be more severe. Tried to consider ways to make the penalty more severe, like causing an automatic -6 energy degen for 15 seconds. Unfortunately that won't penalize certain classes with good energy management, like Necros/Assassins/Paragons as well as some Warrior skills like Bonetti's Defense. Increase the recharge time of Ursan Blessing to 60 seconds?
ShadowsRequiem
Give it a cooldown like the gods tranformations.... Or just remove it from play XD
nembool
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
Give it a cooldown like the gods tranformations.... Or just remove it from play XD
Which brings to mind another thought: why didn't Arenanet make Ursan Blessing like the Dervish Avatar skills? From a lore point of view, why should a nature spirit skill be more powerful than an Avatar of the Gods? I don't think anyone would agree if I claimed that the Bear Spirit is more powerful than Balthazar, so why should skills they grant be that way?
la_cabra_de_vida
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
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My point is that its pve and shouldnt matter.
