Dishonorable - Worst Idea Ever

I don´t agree. Opinions are per definition never wrong, the informations they are based on can be. Which is happening above. The information about earth is wrong, not the opinion.

Anet is a business. They are only going to make changes that are in the best interest of the company. If they make a change that you do not agree with, but the majority of players accept, then you have a choice: learn to live with it, or give up the game.
Who are in the minority and whose playstyle was contrary to desired behavior. Back to that choice thing again.
Yet you have not quit and that says a lot too. Even if the game is 1/10th of how great it was 2-3 years ago, it's more than sufficient to keep you interested. How delightful.

An opinion is neither right nor wrong. I'm not debating your opinion, just pointing out that it's only opinion, not fact. It's foolish for us to discuss holding on to opinions when faced with evidence to the contrary, but I'll play that game if you want.

Until contradicted with better data, more people proves more interest. We can infer that since we see more people in RA, the changes had their desired effect. I'm sure that Anet has the real numbers, but in a nutshell, more interest is better.
If the majority of the people think it's a good thing to have a 25 mph speed limit in a school zone, and you don't like it because you think that it's too slow, does that make the 25 mph school zone any less good for the town? You can base your answer on what's best for you, or what's best for the community. That's where our disagreement lies.

This discussion can go on until they shut this thread down, or shut the boards down. I like to talk about gaming about as much as I like playing them. I even believe that you feel the same way: these posts certainly take more time than waiting for an RA to finish.

Just an observation, but in the time that you have spent posting in defense of your opinion, you could have been playing a ton of RA's.
Excellent post! Your keen intelligence is only eclipsed by your obvious good looks!

That basically sums up the entire argument against everything I'm saying. That is the only reason I started posting in this thread (because I thought some of the arguments were ridiculous). There is absolutely no data that shows that it is somehow better for the game. Hell, there is even no data that shows that the majority likes the changes.

Also the idea that the majority likes it, thus it makes it a better game is not valid if you ask me. What if Anet could turn Guild Wars into WoW? They could have all the success of that game with an exact clone of it. I'm guesing a lot of people here would hate the idea because they think WoW is an inferior game (including me).

It keeps me interested to an extent. Not as much as it used to, but Guild Wars is still a good game that used to be a great game. That was not the point I was making though. The point was that 90% of the players I know who quit Guild Wars quit because of changes to the game, and not due to boredom. I don't think I've ever seen that before.

I agree with you. The problem is there is no evidence to the contrary.

There are so many variables here. Let's say we see more people in RA now (which to be quite honest I am not sure is completely true but we'll assume it is true). That means there are LESS people in other areas. So it was technically WORSE for those areas of the game. What makes RA better than other areas? Another part is this: How we can we prove that gladiator points and dishonorable are good for RA? How can we prove it is good for ALL of PvP?

Your example isn't great. I could easily spin it around. To me it is more like the majority think that going 75mph in a school zone is better because it gets you through faster and because going faster is more "cool". Meanwhile the local community thinks 25mph is better because that is what worked for a long time, and because they think going 75mph is bad for the entire area.

So using my example, yes that is where our disagreement lies.

They have no point to shut the thread down like some people think. Some people just want to shut down threads because they don't like the topic or post that they are correct and then want the thread locked. The entire point of the board is to talk about Guild Wars, so their rants are worthless.

And yes I could have been playing RA, but as I said, I don't really like it as much anymore.

Wanna know why im here? Waiting for my dishonorable to go..I got it because my computer lagged out in RA and ONE team member reported me..yes one, the rest were waiting..I fought in the battle, yet still I get the hex.

Too bad you don't get the hex if only 1 person reports you.
People whining about dishonorable are pure gold

Only in this case, the majority of the local community didn't think that the 25mph of your example was working. Most screamed for a change actually because people were crashing their cars all the time. Being more 'cool' is a bad argument anyway and not used in this thread. So you failed at spinning the example.

Your reversal doesn't hold water: no reasonable majority would advocate doing 75 through a school zone. It's hazardous to the health and welfare of members of the community. It's an undesirable behavior that would be dealt with by law enforcement.

Much like adding dishonorable deals with leavers. Take your speeding ticket for leaving, and take a license suspension for chronic leaving.

The problem is that there were relatively few complaints about 25mph (it was nice people liked it and the ways things should have been), but then the government (Anet) gave everybody a prize for going fast (glad points) then some people wanted to go 75mph (leaving). So Anet implemented a speed limit (dishonorable) even though the limit wasn't needed from the start.

Ok yea, this entire example really is stupid like I said earlier.

You'd be amazed at some of the things people advocate. I think Ursan is completely destructive to the PvE game, but I'm guessing the "reasonable majority" want it to stay.

Which is irrelevent. (See my previous point). Many changes to the game have been hazardous to its health.

Except for the fact that a couple miles away from that school there is a racetrack (TA) where you can get the same prize driving even faster then 75mph and doing more laps per hour (more glad points per hour if you know what you are doing). All you have to do is make a team, which shouldn't have to be too hard.
The problem starts when people want to drive through the city like it is the racetrack and then complain about the speed limit. Which this whole thread is about.

But enough of that stupid example. In my opinion, anyone that cares about glad points shouldn't be trying to farm them in RA anyway. Of course there are many stupid people in RA with all kinds of stupid builds, but that is the risk of playing in a random team. If you aren't willing to take the risk and actually play with those kind of people, then RA isn't for you.
I do agree at some points. The timer in RA is still far too long, 4 minutes or maybe even 3 is more then enough. Awarding gladpoints for RA isn't the smartest idea either. Maybe a 1k faction bonus for every 5 wins makes more sense. But, in the current situation, the Dishonorable hex is needed. That it is needed because of glad points doesn't make any difference. If I understand it correctly, DreamWind is more arguing against the gladpoints then against the hex.

Yea that example sucked from the start. You basically said though that people can go to TA, which is true. But I pointed out problems with that earlier. TA can not serve the same purposes of RA.

Agree with all of this.

To be honest, I don't think dishonorable is the "worst idea ever" like the OP. I just think it wasn't needed, and I thought some of the arguments in favor of it were bad. The only reason I brought up glad points is because dishonorable would not have been added if not for them, so I put them in the same category. They both changed RA.

Thing is in games like these majority usually rules and the minority opinion is just that and will always be that, just a subnote opinion of little an insignificant value. Fine to have them, but, really a waste of type.

Nothing you have to say from this point on is of any value to me.

/waves

now people who play toucher/ele earth tanks/ mending stuff etc get glad titles because you can't rage on them anymore.
Which means they think they are good in this game, and they dont adjust their builds, they just play the same all the time...
usualy, when every1 rages on you when they see your build, after a while you should realise maybe your build aint that great, so you play something else. Which means you should improve after a while trying new builds etc
As you can see I just HATE the ***some bad word here *** dishonorable update

why should you "rage" on other players?

there's a chat panel, type in your comments/advise and hit enter. i think that would be more useful then "raging"

I love the disnonorable update alot.


would like to refer rage quitters supporters to this thread

dishonorable is not the worst idea
anet had many bad ideas
this one is below lootscaling

maybe if one person on you're team resigns a box pops up and you're asked to click yes or no

Not obstructive or anything just above the party bar or something (you can move it in options [interface])

dishonored is good when i did RA i always got ppl leaving (mostly monks) and now i can get in a group and have a chance

if you try to give them advice they just say 1 V 1 MY GUILD HALL I KILL or they just don't listen to you because they think their bar is good the way it is now because they actually get glad points with it now ><

Sums up around 90% of the the GW community who think they are 'the shit', when there just 'shit'.

I clearly showed your point to be irrelevent, so now you are quitting? I expected more from you.

Just because something is hazardous to the health of the community or the game has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not the majority like it. The majority likes PLENTY of things that are destructive to the game. The main argument for dishonorable/glad points is that the majority likes it. I am simply pointing out that some things the majority like are actually terrible for Guild Wars. Whether or not the RA changes are part of that is what we are debating.

The only legit argument made.

It is below a lot of things. Dishonorable isn't near the worst update in the history of Guild Wars. I just think changing RA to a farming area, then needing another update to patch the previous change (which arguably wasn't needed even after the change) is a bad idea, especially when there was relatively few problems to begin with.

I think when we end up with a melee monk, a dagger warrior, a scythe ranger, or some other absolutely terrible build, we're justified in leaving. Just a thought.

BEST idea ever.

I think when you choose to go into RA you should expect such things, so you're not justified.

Just a coherent thought.

What all of you whiners seem to fail to recognize is that it was your choice to go to RA, the training ground for nubs and the testing grounds for whatever whacky-ass build you can think up. If you're so uber-1337 that you're above that, GTFO of RA and STFU. If you're not willing to play RA, don't ****ing play RA. Don't go into RA and get all pissy and whiny because it doesn't conform to your personal ideas of entertainment.

If you don't like it, stay the hell out of it.

Waaaah! When I go into HA I don't get to make the rules and sometimes I lose and that's not right because then I don't get the reward and I have to start over! Waaaaah! Where's MY patch!? Waaaaah!

There is nothing preventing anyone from leaving if they willing to accept that they may get a mark against them. Maybe you should stay and show some leadership even if it may mean you might lose a match.

2-3 monks is an assumed defeat. Realistically, yeah, you're RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed. I realize this. I've been in RA teams where there are 2-3 monks.

But guess what, that doesn't mean you can't go try and wand them to death. Oh no, you are out the amount of time it takes for the other team to kill you or the match to end. Or hell, 2 of those 3 monks might have some crazy damage skills on their bars like ninjas. You wouldn't know since you just ragequit. You never know when that time where 3 monks epically wand someone to death.

As for AB, most of the problem there is the blind leading the blind. You have morons screaming for people to do this, people already going in knowing they are going to tell that guy to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO off, and people going lolwut with their echomending bullshit. Oh, then the few people who sorta know what they are doing, but can't agree on how to do it.

12 v 12 at least, you can keep your whole team where you can see them (before you hit enter that is).

It's a risk of pvp. Take it and deal or stfu and gtfo. Anet isn't gonna change it.

Rage-quitting in idea, is dishonorable, hense the d points.

Edit:
Basically what this guy said, that I didn't read because I wasn't gonna read 10 pages of people drooling in agreement or protest at what you said.

/drool

Nobody is whining here but you, that is the first thing you fail to recognize. The second thing you fail to recognize is that RA is no longer a training ground for newbs and a testing ground for whacky builds first (like it should be). It is a farming area first. Newbs and bad builds are only there to get farmed nowadays, instead of get trained and have fun. Dishonorable is only in place for that reason. Complaints only happened for that reason. There was no problem with RA before all this came into being.

The problem is the form of entertainment formerly known as RA that "conformed to my entertainment" is completely different from todays RA. Your little rant amounts to "this is how the game is now get used to it", which has nothing to do with what is being discussed.

Yep...that is exactly what happened. *smacks head*

Absolutely. Nothing prevents anyone from leaving a match if they don't like the odds. Nothing prevents you from leaving the second match either, it just stops you from restarting for a time.

Our issue is that some folks don't understand this, or are unwilling to accept it.
That's the point. 75 percent of a team gets screwed when a person leaves. Anet punishes the person who habitually does that, by giving a consequence for making a selfish decision. I agree with their policy.
That was post 119.

Your expectations are irrelevant.
/laughs

Just because I brought up a point that you (or anybody else) has been unable to counter does not mean you have to quit.

Melee monks are pretty bad, dagger warriors can be alright, and scythe rangers (as well as hammers) are actually pretty good when done right.

Your garble of badly-composed ranting aside, these are things that should be learned in pre-searing. A monk is not for melee combat, you should know that by the time you've gotten a character to level 20. A scythe ranger is gimmicky trash and anyone who's found it probably knows enough to know that BA or BHA or other real ranger builds are far more useful to a team. A dagger warrior is more gimmicky trash that the average new player doesn't come up with - the new player runs power attack, dolyak signet and the like.

These are things that PvE is intended to teach against and aside from people who run right to PvP without touching PvE (and thus not learning anything about the game before they begin PvP), the players coming through PvE should know enough to play even a marginally effective build. I refer to my examples, they are gimmicks or griefers, and quite different from new players, as you might know if you were capable of logical thought.

Thus when people come in with these trashy aforementioned builds (that are NOT people learning how to play, these are builds designed to grief and send a team to failure) it makes more sense that players not be punished for leaving. Suppose you get an Assassin running that double shadowstep build that lets them survive easily until the very end of the match, or using permanent Shadow Form? Should their team be forced to stay?

In reply to your suggestion of leaving (or gtfo as you so charmingly put it) I am indeed glad to be doing so (thank you, Funcom!). I look forward to FFA PvP where such griefers, gimmick runners, and angry buffoons such as yourself can be properly dispatched, instead of protected by carebear safety rules

His point is that if you consider the health and welfare of the community to be irrelevant, then there's no discussion to be had about whether dishonorable was a good update. Also, you didn't clearly show anything with that terrible analogy. It was broken in several ways, and not at all clear in the rest.

I did not say the health and welfare of the community is irrelevent. Of course it is. Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

Basically my point was that just because the majority like something, does NOT mean that particular thing is good for the health and welfare of the game or community. The majority of PvE players like Ursan, and I strongly believe that is bad for health the game. The majority of the western world likes fast food, and I strongly believe that is bad for the health of the community. I am arguing that turning RA into a farming area (and thus the subsequent dishonorable effect) fit into those categories.

All of my posts have been broken apart. I will literally make a long post with several points, and people pick apart only a few of those that they feel like responding to while ignoring the points they can't. That analogy I acknowledged was terrible, and I did not create it.

Also I LOL'ED at Zahr Dalsk's post. Good stuff.

I'm going to ask you that you elaborate on this for me if you don't mind.

I believe that PvE players are hamstrung when they come to PvP because of their experience in PvE. In the process of leveling a character to 20, a player learns how to play PvE GW, and for the most part, they take that knowlege to RA or AB and are soundly thrashed by thinking adversaries.

I have a friend who has no PvE characters. I don't believe that he is hindered in any way by his not learning GW from the PvE side. Now I'll admit that he is a very smart guy, but I think we can all agree that PvP play is vastly different from PvE.

I've enver seen someone quote themselves that much...

I agree that it can be abused, but it is necessary. I have only been reported once, and that was in RA after several rounds, and I had a unrecoverable disconnect, but if you do not abuse the system, then you will very seldomly if ever be reported.

This entire thread has been repeating itself for the last 10 pages, there's not much more to say...
I've avoided it since the squabling/bickering started, but now it just needs a lock, I'm not sure there are any mods on this site bored enough to try and salvage this thread.

So, /lock please?

Quoted for truth.

It's easier than typing the same thing out to repeat myself.

Weird, I've never gotten a Dishonorable debuff ever since it was introduced. How come?