Dishonorable - Worst Idea Ever

I don't really mind, I love reading the responses when people yell at me for suiciding into the enemy team to end the match faster since they won't resign. I ask them to resign and they don't, nothing else I can do about that. If they can't realize when our team setup doesn't stand a chance unless by some miracle we get paired against people in our situation for 5/10 matches I won't be bothered to waste my time.

And to all the people saying go TA, it is just like HA, either you have a group of friends already established and can get points fairly easy or you grind it out point by point. The established groups aren't willing to take new players and the pugs in TA are just as bad as pugs in HA.

ok i hate dishorable so im in ra and pople are sync and im not one of those pople so it start and im theonly one, not in the guild on my team, so all 3 of them report me as leecher, they log out and im back in ra with the hex and there not, im so pissed at this ideal, the feact they can say im leechign when i was only one fighting and i get the hex is bull

I keep hoping that some day, in some place, in the far far future that people will realize that complaining that a feature is doing *exactly* what was intended will not get their complaint actioned on (and that "no, I don't agree" is still listening) but I haven't seen it yet.

Random arena's are intended to be random - that is a team of four monks, a team of four eles, or a balanced team are all equally possible. Further the Dishonorable hex is intended to make sure that the whole team stays together if the majority of the team wants too (note that this has nothing to do if the person wanting to leave thinks it is a waste of time). So complaining that a team of four monks where three want to stay together will give the fourth leaver a dishonorable hex reads to the developers "working as intended".

Complain all you want - if you want a team go to TA. Can't get a team? Well the developers obviously feel that isn't worth screwing those that want random teams. I would suggest you try and find some friends or a guild - they aren't that hard to get into and if you can't I would also suggest that you may very well deserve said hex. There are guilds for causal through hard core TA and above but they generally require decent players - non decent players are relegated to RA only. As little as I bother and as bad as I am I have had guild invites to OK guilds after winning streaks.

Don't like that advice? You aren't going to get the developers to change so you can either have non-fun for the rest of you GW career, go to a different game, or accept it and move on. There are no other choices. Railing away on a message board and reinforcing the design goals will only prolong your non-fun playing.

/signed (time for me to be flamed I love riverside )

So many people are completely missing the point. It makes me a bit sick honestly. I rarely play RA anymore...not because I was a compulsive leaver, but because the system is crap now. I can't stand the "OMG I MIGHT GET BANNED FROM PVP FOR BEING NAUGHTY" and the whole majority appeasement of the entire concept.

First, the "its RANDOM arenas" argument is a load of garbage. If you are going to say that, I can easily say that if somebody leaves your team it is a RANDOM occurence so deal with it. Random means a lot more than people here are implying.

Second, the "go play TA" argument is even more garbage. The entire point of RA is for people who CAN'T get a team together for other forms of PvP at the time. If I had people logged on, I WOULD NOT play TA. I would play GvG. RA is also for people who don't have much time and just want a quick game or two. What happens when you get an RA game with 6 monks or even just 1-2 griefers in it? You have wasted a TON of time that could have been better spent playing real games.

I have other points but they would take ages to type out and there was already a million page thread about this around the time it was implemented.

ROFLMAO at your self-centered logic.

However I do agree RA is because it's not time consuming in making up a team to play, but then your logic defeat the purpose of it not being time consuming, if everyone keep leaving and, say rough estimate that 50% of the time someone leaves, don't you think that would be a waste of OTHER PEOPLE'S TIME?

PS: Random Arena - Randomly Made Up Group/Team NOT Randomly getting players who leave the team arena.

No...I am saving them time by leaving a game that is going to take ages to end. Maybe it will end faster.

Oh while I'm at it...the idea that /resign somehow works is laughable. It is nearly impossible to get an entire RA team to resign.

You have an official statement on that? Or is that just what you want it to be?

Where is it said that RA games have to be short? IMHO, the OP needs to stop RA-ing instead of complaining, this discussion is completely pointless as they're going to be no change at all. The vast majority is happy with the current situation.

I guess if the majority is happy that makes it good for the game. *smacks head* The failure of Guild Wars.

Look at it the other way:

Without dishonorable, wast majority of games were over before countdown finished because out of 8 people in instance someone would eventually ragequit, I remember spending 30 minutes before actual match happened where neither side rage quitted.

Regardless how competent you or rest of team were, there was always someone who decided that, i.e, Mo/W with sword and shield equiped is "lolnub".

Now, it was kinda good that that kind of people removed themselves from my vicinity, and the fact that once you got team that didnt RQ you were nearly guaranteed 10 consecs (because most other teams would be weakened by quiters and give next to no resistance.)

But i rather prefer it now as i actually get to play.

Maybe RA needs disclaimer, something like this:

DreamWind, incase you didn't know, there's a timer for RA, the game does not drag on anymore especially if it comprise of what you think is "bad team"

Was that disclaimer a joke? Some of those 'silly' things are perfectly acceptable.

Dishonourable is fine, the problem I find it NOT ENOUGH people will /report

DreamWind, you have some bad luck, i win RA with the most peculiar of team build up, 3 monks and a ranger, 4 warriors, team with leechers .... sometime team with morons who have death wish, I think its because i don't care what team i am in, and just play the game and see what comes of it.

its fun, you should try it.

I would agree with you there. Minority or majority has nothing to do with your right to your own opinions and your right to state them.

I didn't say anything about his opinions. The comment that was deleted for, as usual, no reason, stated quite clearly that his opinion was irrelevant because the purpose of the game is to make ANET money. He's in a very tiny minority with his opinion, and tiny minorities aren't profitable when each individual customer pays the same amount. Therefore, his opinion is, for all practical purposes, inconsequential.

He can hold whatever foolhardy opinion he wants, no matter how ridiculous it is. That doesn't mean anybody has to care about it. I'm certainly under no obligation to respect it. He has every right to his opinion, and I respect that right. His opinion, however, is stupid, and I don't respect that.

Also, why in the hell are mods deleting my flamebait comments instead of just locking the whole flamebait thread? It's a stupid whinefest from whiney whiners. There's no legitimate debate on the topic because almost nobody who wasn't the intended target of the hex has a problem with it. Conserve some energy and just close the whole ridiculous thread.

Here, I'll some up the whole thread so it can be closed without losing anything of value:

A small number of people who used to make RA annoying get hexed and don't think it's fair that they now have to play by the intended rules of the match. Pretty much everybody else thinks they're ridiculous and doesn't care because they're too busy enjoying RA and AB while the whiners have to sit out with the hex they earned.

I was wondering why I didn't see that comment. I totally disgree with the whining about dishonorable(a very good addition to the game), but I do believe someone has the right to state their opinions credible or not.

I dunno, maybe it was a bug then that recorded D/L time as "leaving". All I know is that I tried to load in twice, took a few minutes to download the textures (I hadn't been on in awhile) and then got spit back out, with a Dishonorable hex...

Either that's by design (and stupid) or dishonorable IS broken.

you know what, people should just enjoy the game, this reminds me of the ridiculous RA players that you see, both in your own and opposition's team, you should be thankful you sees such funny incident! it doesn't happen everyday! makes you ROFLYAO.

It was 3 days ago in RA, I saw a red dot on the radar, its not moving, I thought its one of those sneaky monk hiding and healing the warrior, i went round to the dot and discovers its a warrior that is using a bow........

That reminds of a r/mo I saw using a sword & shield, I still laugh whenever I think about it.

Dishonorable.........

It stopped all the retards ragequitting, which is a good thing, but it brought a problem: You must play with your team til you die, even if your team is noob. And RA is full of noobs ( not newbies)

Well, at least you can test your RA builds with security.........or no?

Noobs need love too.

Well, how the hell else did you want him to pull? DUH! </sarcasm>

Er... yea... welcome to RA.

Although, a lot of people test builds in RA too and, well, sometimes those builds just don't work in practice quite like you thought they might on paper....

dude to get dishonarable you have to leave 2 parties.

how often do you get parties you need to leave?

If you are so against Dishonor, quick going to RA

All the time. I prefer to leave and rejoin until I get a team that isn't stupid.

99% of the teams in RA are stupid. 100% have one person that is stupid. Only the synced teams dont have any stupid people.

So you are playing in an arena where almost everyone is stupid. Guess that makes perfectly sense. It is like saying you don't like getting wet, but you still keep jumping into a pool over and over.

In your opinion of course. I disagree

But the difference between RANDOM and TEAM arena is something you won't understand, right?

i like it.

seriously if you keep leaving your groups till you get a non retarted one you'll be spending all day doing that instead of pvping.
RA is a good way to waste time and laugh at some idiots you run into and on your team.

But the leaving issue i think was a huge ass problem

Wow...I think it is pretty ridiculous that some of my really good posts got deleted and they weren't even flamebait (although many posts directed at them were). I love Guru at times.

I still stand by what I said that you can do a forum search and you will find tons of hate for dishonorable, whether or not it is vocalized in this thread.

If the number one purpose game is to make money, then the game is going to be a failure. Period. I think one of the Anet founders has stated that multiple times. The purpose of a game is to make the best product. The money is simply a result of that.

And besides, what you just typed is exactly the line of thinking that severely brought down PvP from its past high points.

And you want people to respect your "minority doesn't matter" opinion?

They are only deleting your posts because you are one of the people who was flamebaiting. As far as I'm concerned the thread is legit and shouldn't be locked. We are discussing whether or not dishonorable is good, not whether or not it is going to be removed.

I think you are missing a point. The dishonorable hex (along with everything that came with it) CHANGED the rules of RA. The original rules (which was basically no rules) are no longer intact and some don't like it. I don't play RA much anymore not because I am a habitual leaver, but because I don't like what has happened to it.

Not to mention, dishonorable promotes so many activities that people don't like that I am kind of shocked nobody is mentioning the downsides of it, even if they believe it IS good for RA.

You all bitched about leechers and leavers, and now you bitch about this? Come on.

Care to list these activities? The only thing that it could effect negitively are those who are forced to leave their computers for what ever reason and end up reported for it. Other than that, it's doing its job (keeping people like you from ruining the fun of others) which of course you're still free to do, just not without consequences now.
Again I'll say it, if you can't stand the "Randomness" of Random Arenas, go play TA.

Except now it's the leechers and leavers doing all the bitching

Dishonorable - best idea ever. Everyone had enough of leavers. I enjoy RA much more now that leavers are gone.

I'm kind of bored of this topic but I love how people get riled up about it so I'm continuing.

Syncing, griefing, false reporting (or being falsely reported), playing super defense builds, running, being locked out of PvP for accidental/bad reasons, having plenty of downtime during games without being able to leave, and more but I'm too tired to think of them.

Assuming I am a leaver (which I never said I was), what about my fun? You would be better off saying that since I am in the minority I just have to live with it, which is the extent of the argument people are using here.

Also another point...if I am in the extreme minority on this (as some claim), then why did it need to be implemented to begin with? The leavers must have been in the extreme minority before as well, thus causing minimal disruption. If there were a ton of leavers, it means a ton of people didn't like the change.

I don't know why this argument is still used.

Randomness is a lack of order, purpose, cause, or predictability in non-scientific parlance. A random process is a repeating process whose outcomes follow no describable deterministic pattern, but follow a probability distribution.

Random arenas have lost ALL of the bolded over time. It lost the lack of order (because dishonorable forces order) and it lost lack of cause (because of glad points). I could easily say that if somebody left in the middle of the match, then it was a RANDOM occurence for you. If you go into RA, RANDOM things will happen.

Also, saying "go to TA" makes no sense. The entire point of RA is for people who don't have a TA team or don't have time for TA. If I had people logged on for PvP I wouldn't be anywhere near the arenas. You'd be better off advocating changes to TA rather than saying get out of RA.

Need change for TA? Remove Glad points from RA and we have a decent start.

The hex has its huge problems.
it gives griefers more power over idiotic things but the timer was a good idea for trying to take care of that.

How ever the leaver problem was so damn huge. it got to the point that you needed to basicly be a monk to get a group to stay together. 5 days and not a single full group ya i think that needed to be fixed and the dishonorable was the best way to deal with it.

I love the dishonorable idea. Maybe its just me haha...

If you leave during a battle in real life you get dishonored as well...Good job Anet

*No Sarcasm*

This is the kind of behavior dishonorable was designed to stop, which it has. A.net didn't like it that 8 out of every 10 RA games had a leaver prior to the fight because their team had "noobs" (90% of the time, the quiters were the noobs).

This thread is ridiculous. It is also amusing.

Lol. Awesome. This Q.Q proves the system is working!

Sorry if I'm not especially riled up, but I'll respond to your post anyway.

Lets start with the list of "things Dishonorable promotes."

I'm not sure how you came up with this one. There are two things that probably cause people to sync: The reward (in Glad points) for having an above average team every time, and the fun of winning most of your matches. If anything, Dishonorable makes this harder. Before Dishonorable, syncers could leave at the beginning of the round if they got on the wrong team. Now they can only do that once before Dishonorable kicks in and slows them down. Granted, other things like the district merge have made this a lot easier, but once again that has nothing to do with dishonorable.

Since this is basically the same as the next two (unless there was some other form of griefing you were to tired to remember), I'll get to it there.

These are basically the same.

While the possibility is there, it honestly never happens. I've played thousands of RA matches since dishonorable was put in, and I've seen false reporting once, maybe twice, in all that time. With that rate of occurance, no one should be able to get a dishonorable hex just from false reporting (since you can only get 6 Dishonorable points from reports in a single match), and you are extremely unlikely to get falsely reported in multiple matches in the same hour.

If you're talking about falsely reporting as a method of griefing, one person falsely reporting everyone is more likely to get Dishonorable on themselves then they are to get anyone else to have the hex (this happened to me once: someone using a griefing build falsely reported everyone else, then we all reported him. That's 12 points to the guy that deserved it and only 2 for the rest of us).

In AB this is somewhat worse, as there may be legitimate reasons to AFK for a minute or two during the longer matches, during which time someone might report you. It's still not likely to result in a hex (especially if you say something in team chat first), and shouldn't happen very often.

The only people this affects in the way you mean are people with bad connections or unstable computers. If your connection is bad enough that you frequently drop from matches and get dishonorable from it, consider how much fun your teammates must be having and take a break from PvP until you can get those issues sorted out please.

Griefing builds were common enough in RA before dishonorable. If anything they are now less common because the timer change made them less effective. Yes, it is annoying that I can't just leave when some runner or terra tank refuses to surrender. This is probably the only real negative effect of Dishonorable on normal players. But the builds themselves are less common then they were, and their effect on enemy teams has been significantly reduced. On the whole I'd say that it's better now then it was.

It's not about how many of which there are. It's about how RA was meant to be played. There are two groups: leavers and non-leavers. One is playing RA "as intended" (getting put in a random team and taking that team as far as they can), the other is not (leaving groups until they get in a "good" team). Before dishonorable it had gotten to the point where you could not play "as intended" because leavers were too common.

Because even if only 1/10 people are leavers, that means about every third team I join has a leaver in it (assuming I am not one myself). In reality, the rate was much higher then this, with probably more like 1/5 people being leavers (meaning: every other game and sometimes back-to-back games). Like I said above, this made them common enough that RA was becoming unplayable for people trying to play it as intended.


The random in random arenas is obviously referring exclusively to team composition. Nothing after the start of the match is random (except when you get criticals and where your damage falls in your weapon's range). The correct quote is:
Saying "Go to TA" makes perfect sense when the excuse for leaving is "I want good people on my team." You can go pug in TA and check everyones builds before entering if you don't have anyone you know to PvP with. That way you're guaranteed you won't be playing with anyone you consider to have a bad build.