Developer Updates PvP/PvE Skill Balancing - May 21st - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

22 May 2008 at 00:50 - 161

Quote:

Ok. I don't play an edenial mes, but I run a warrior build that includes "Fear Me". It doesn't kill the monster, but it does slow them down, which is more the intention of most skills.

I'm going to stop you there.

Fear me is 1-4 energy denial. Do you honestly think that making an enemy lose 4 energy every ~10 seconds is slowing it down? I certainly hope not. To be honest, it probably would barely slow a player down, let alone a monster with a lot of energy/regen.

kratimas

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Order of the Setting Sun

R/

22 May 2008 at 00:50 - 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

First I was expecting more of a change in pvp so a little under impressed by the changes in pvp. I was really expecting some drastic changes in that area. I did not expect to see any “Restoration of Skill Effectiveness in PvE”, I was expecting them to not change anything in PvE and leave as it is.

I would bet they just want to give the new system a good testing before they change too much. After they are sure it will work the way they want it too, I would start to look for some big changes in PvP skills IMO.

Krat

Giga_Gaia

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Travelling around Tyria, Cantha, and Elona

P/W

22 May 2008 at 00:51 - 163

You guys are missing SerenitySilverstar's point; which is to give Anet some time before jumping to conclusions. It's not uncommon for them to change something and then revert them back in a few days, so why not wait and see how they will handle this before QQing?

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

22 May 2008 at 00:53 - 164

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

You guys are missing SerenitySilverstar's point; which is to give Anet some time before jumping to conclusions. It's not uncommon for them to change something and then revert them back in a few days, so why not wait and see how they will handle this before QQing?

Because a majority of the community has lost faith in ANet's updates, and quite frankly, I don't blame them.

Yes, I understand they're trying. But until they make a few consecutive overall good updates, the community is going to jump to conclusions based on previous updates.

SerenitySilverstar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

22 May 2008 at 00:56 - 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Fear me is 1-4 energy denial. Do you honestly think that making an enemy lose 4 energy every ~10 seconds is slowing it down? I certainly hope not. To be honest, it probably would barely slow a player down, let alone a monster with a lot of energy/regen.

I'm not thinking it's going to hurt them heaps - I'm doing that with my weapon skills, and the back up from my team. Just imagine though, a group of monsters aggro'd on me - 4 -5 monsters taking e-denial from Fear Me at once? Plus the way I have it set up, I can spam it quite quickly.

I feel like I'm repeating myself - you can't judge one skill's effectiveness in a vacuum.

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

22 May 2008 at 00:59 - 166

If this is a "preview," as some claim, they choose some really crappy updates to preview it.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

22 May 2008 at 00:59 - 167

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

I'm not thinking it's going to hurt them heaps - I'm doing that with my weapon skills, and the back up from my team. Just imagine though, a group of monsters aggro'd on me - 4 -5 monsters taking e-denial from Fear Me at once? Plus the way I have it set up, I can spam it quite quickly.

I feel like I'm repeating myself - you can't judge one skill's effectiveness in a vacuum.

Ok, 5 monsters losing 4 energy. Not really effective. You could aggro 20 enemies, it still wouldn't be very effective. Why? Because of the amount of energy/regen monsters have.

So yes, we're repeating ourselves. If you think that 4 energy every 6+ seconds is somewhat useful, think that. Myself, I think it's completely useless. The fact is...oh, forget it. Let's keep it at that.

Giga_Gaia

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Travelling around Tyria, Cantha, and Elona

P/W

22 May 2008 at 01:00 - 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Because a majority of the community has lost faith in ANet's updates, and quite frankly, I don't blame them.

Yes, I understand they're trying. But until they make a few consecutive overall good updates, the community is going to jump to conclusions based on previous updates.

Don't get me wrong, I've also lost a lot of faith in Anet in the past. But maybe I lack the incredibly high standards of the community

, or maybe I just don't really care much nowadays. Still, seeing that they've finally taken SOME initiative to correct their mistakes (and hopefully avoid them in GW2) has restored my faith, a little.

I Can Cure Cancer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

Dark Empire [DE]

E/

22 May 2008 at 01:01 - 169

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

I'm not thinking it's going to hurt them heaps - I'm doing that with my weapon skills, and the back up from my team. Just imagine though, a group of monsters aggro'd on me - 4 -5 monsters taking e-denial from Fear Me at once? Plus the way I have it set up, I can spam it quite quickly.

I feel like I'm repeating myself - you can't judge one skill's effectiveness in a vacuum.

Just face it, e-denial is simply bad. 4 energy is really gonna hurt those monsters with huge energy pools and energy regen right? If you have to resort to e-denial in PvE it means your group is killing things too slowly. I'd recommend you use less fear me and more eviscerate.

SerenitySilverstar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

22 May 2008 at 01:03 - 170

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Myself, I think it's completely useless. The fact is...oh, forget it. Let's keep it at that.

Yuppers. And there you go - you hate it, I like it. Opinion.

Which is why so many of these good discussions can get sucked into a black hole.

SerenitySilverstar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

22 May 2008 at 01:05 - 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Can Cure Cancer

I'd recommend you use less fear me and more eviscerate.

Why can't I use both? That's rhetorical by the way, because saying "One skill is not a build" seems to be lost on those without basic reading comprehension.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

22 May 2008 at 01:05 - 172

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

Yuppers. And there you go - you hate it, I like it. Opinion.

Which is why so many of these good discussions can get sucked into a black hole.

Opinions can be wrong.

You think the Holocaust happened, I don't.

Opinion.

Would you call me wrong?

SerenitySilverstar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

22 May 2008 at 01:08 - 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Opinions can be wrong.

You think the Holocaust happened, I don't.

Opinion.

Would you call me wrong?

Yes. Because there's facts and evidence to back up the Holocaust.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

22 May 2008 at 01:09 - 174

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

Yes. Because there's facts and evidence to back up the Holocaust.

And there's facts and evidence that "Fear Me!" is crap against monsters because a majority of them have evidence of having over 80++ energy, with 4-8+ energy regen or more.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

22 May 2008 at 01:09 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

Yes. Because there's facts and evidence to back up the Holocaust.

There are facts that prove the uselessness of energy denial in PvE, and only opinions saying it's useful.

I Can Cure Cancer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

Dark Empire [DE]

E/

22 May 2008 at 01:09 - 176

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

Why can't I use both? That's rhetorical by the way, because saying "One skill is not a build" seems to be lost on those without basic reading comprehension.

By "less Fear Me and more Eviscerate" I mean stop wasting your bar on useless junk and start doing some damage instead of beating around the bush with e-denial.

SerenitySilverstar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

22 May 2008 at 01:11 - 177

You guys realize that double teaming an alternate opinion doesn't mean you win, or quash it, right?

Quit with the stubborn BS and realize, like I do, that "agree to disagree" is a perfectly valid stance.

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

22 May 2008 at 01:12 - 178

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

Yuppers. And there you go - you hate it, I like it. Opinion.
Which is why so many of these good discussions can get sucked into a black hole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

Yes. Because there's facts and evidence to back up the Holocaust.

Here are the facts to back up energy denial being worth crap:
Energy denial is useless unless you have gotten the enemy down to such a low energy that they can't cast spells anymore. When I say useless, it is STRICTLY useless. Flare doesn't get more damage because the caster had 100 energy instead of 80. Unless you are getting enemies down to around 10 or less energy, every energy denial is USELESS because the enemies cast their spells just the same. With the larger energy pools and regen monsters have, you would have to run a whole IWay warrior group with fear me and spam it for several minutes.

Face it, energy denial is flat out useless. USELESS. Mending helps your team more then energy denial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

You guys realize that double teaming an alternate opinion doesn't mean you win, or quash it, right?
Quit with the stubborn BS and realize, like I do, that "agree to disagree" is a perfectly valid stance.

Yes, and your opinion is that of a strictly inferior player. You are allowed to have an opinion, but your opinion is made of fail.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

22 May 2008 at 01:16 - 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

You guys realize that double teaming an alternate opinion doesn't mean you win, or quash it, right?

Quit with the stubborn BS and realize, like I do, that "agree to disagree" is a perfectly valid stance.

No, double teaming doesn't mean you win. But when we're giving you facts, and all you have is an opinion, I'm fairly sure our part of the discussion wins.

But enough of this. It's clear that no matter how many facts are shown, your opinion is not going to change. The discussion is over before people start flaming. It's going in circles and it's getting off topic.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

22 May 2008 at 01:22 - 180

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia

You guys are missing SerenitySilverstar's point; which is to give Anet some time before jumping to conclusions. It's not uncommon for them to change something and then revert them back in a few days, so why not wait and see how they will handle this before QQing?

Saying future updates might not suck doesn't change that this update sucks.

Also, lol at discussing energy denial with someone bad at math.

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

22 May 2008 at 01:23 - 181

If you guys are going to revert skills, go the whole way and un-nerf everything. Revert LoD. Revert Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage. Revert Revert Revert.

Izzy has already recognized that PvE players just want a static game with completely overpowered abilities so they can "feel epic". So do it already.

darkknightkain

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

P/W

22 May 2008 at 01:26 - 182

Cool update!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Q: Which version of the skills will be available on Isle of the Nameless?
A: Currently PvE, though the developers are evaluating this.

Please make it doable with both set of skills.
If it can be made as simple as talking a NPC doorman at Temple of Balthazar to select which version of Isle of Nameless to send me to it will be perfect

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

22 May 2008 at 01:30 - 183

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

If you guys are going to revert skills, go the whole way and un-nerf everything. Revert LoD. Revert Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage. Revert Revert Revert.

Izzy has already recognized that PvE players just want a static game with completely overpowered abilities so they can "feel epic". So do it already.

The monsters will get the exact same skills. People already complain about the current monsters, even in normal mode, to be too hard. Not only that, but some skills were buffed due to PvP, so theoretically they'd be reverted to their old, worse form. Can you imagine the amount of whining if they reverted every skill?

Zena Starlight

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

CBE

Mo/

22 May 2008 at 01:32 - 184

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

If you guys are going to revert skills, go the whole way and un-nerf everything. Revert LoD. Revert Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage. Revert Revert Revert.

Izzy has already recognized that PvE players just want a static game with completely overpowered abilities so they can "feel epic". So do it already.

QFT.

I would be all for them just giving massive buffs to skills, just to the minority of GW who think skills like flare does damage can actually help the team.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Because the monsters will get the exact same skills. People already complain about the current monsters, even in normal mode, to be too hard. Not only that, but some skills were buffed due to PvP, so theoretically they'd be reverted to their old, worse form. Can you imagine the amount of whining if they reverted every skill?

Maybe then mesmers will be more useful, kill the monster before it touches you.

MisterT69

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Scions of Carver [SCAR]

E/

22 May 2008 at 01:34 - 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Saying future updates might not suck doesn't change that this update sucks.

Also, lol at discussing energy denial with someone bad at math.

This update sucks O.o? just take a look at the PVE [Shadow form] Honestly if that's all they did I would be happy. No need to bring [arcane echo] anymore w/16 shadow arts

Finally A-net gives solo farmers a little break. Now about loot scaling...

I Can Cure Cancer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

Dark Empire [DE]

E/

22 May 2008 at 01:36 - 186

MisterT69 I think you missed the whole point of Anet splitting PvE and PvP......

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

22 May 2008 at 01:36 - 187

Quote:

Maybe then mesmers will be more useful, kill the monster before it touches you.

What? Mesmers didn't have deadly damage before stuff was nerfed.

Quote:

Finally A-net gives solo farmers a little break. Now about loot scaling...

A little break? The skill was already powerful enough. There was no reason to buff it. If they really wanted to make farming viable again, they'd do what Racthoh said - revert all the farming nerfs.

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

22 May 2008 at 01:38 - 188

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The monsters will get the exact same skills. People already complain about the current monsters, even in normal mode, to be too hard. Not only that, but some skills were buffed due to PvP, so theoretically they'd be reverted to their old, worse form. Can you imagine the amount of whining if they reverted every skill?

So give monsters the PvP versions, and only revert nerfs. While you're at it, uncap the number of elites and PvE skills you can take on your bars. Make Chimera of Intensity a blessing you can buy from shrines for 100g.

Remember, PvE players want overpowered stuff; the more overpowered, the better. Izzy knows this.

MisterT69

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Scions of Carver [SCAR]

E/

22 May 2008 at 01:39 - 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Can Cure Cancer

MisterT69 I think you missed the whole point of Anet splitting PvE and PvP......

LOL, well it's all about "balance" of course. And I know the SF PVP nerf is cuz of all those griefers ><. It's just nice to see A-net showing some farming love.

Zena Starlight

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

CBE

Mo/

22 May 2008 at 01:39 - 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

What? Mesmers didn't have deadly damage before stuff was nerfed.

Fast casting with more overpowered skills.

Bah... maybe just scrap the idea then.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

22 May 2008 at 01:40 - 191

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

So give monsters the PvP versions, and only revert nerfs. While you're at it, uncap the number of elites and PvE skills you can take on your bars. Make Chimera of Intensity a blessing you can buy from shrines for 100g.

Remember, PvE players want overpowered stuff; the more overpowered, the better. Izzy knows this.

Give monsters PvP versions of the skills...lol?

I'm under the impression you're just being sarcastic, so I'm going to stop replying.

I Can Cure Cancer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

Dark Empire [DE]

E/

22 May 2008 at 01:41 - 192

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

So give monsters the PvP versions, and only revert nerfs. While you're at it, uncap the number of elites and PvE skills you can take on your bars. Make Chimera of Intensity a blessing you can buy from shrines for 100g.

Remember, PvE players want overpowered stuff; the more overpowered, the better. Izzy knows this.

Chimera of Intensity for 100g? The most powerful effect in the whole game for 100g? I think that's going a little overboard, I'm fine with the cons thanks.

Zesbeer

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

LLJK

22 May 2008 at 01:41 - 193

Quote:

* Song of Restoration Song of Restoration (PvP): increased recharge time to 30 seconds.

this is unnecessary the change to Ballad of Restoration (PvP) is. but song of resto is a elite and should be treated like one.

also where are the neffs to sway and block way? im sick of seeing escape on every single ranger.

Lhim

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Rt/

22 May 2008 at 01:48 - 194

Maybe they can unlock Dragon Empire Rage for Rits in general PvE. While they're at it, they should change the recharge to 5 sec, casting time to 1/4 sec and energy cost to 5. Oh, and change nearby to all foes in the area...better still, in radar range.

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

22 May 2008 at 01:55 - 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Can Cure Cancer

Chimera of Intensity for 100g? The most powerful effect in the whole game for 100g? I think that's going a little overboard, I'm fine with the cons thanks.

There's no such thing as overboard, because PvEers don't understand or care about balance to begin with. PvEers want overpowered. Izzy said so himself.

Think for a moment - what's actually wrong with my idea of Chimera of Intensity? You don't have to use it if you don't want to. It won't affect your enjoyment of the game - it won't affect anyone's enjoyment of the game, unless they want it to. It is explicitly your choice. PvEers have been arguing this line of reasoning since Day 1. Find me the flaw.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

22 May 2008 at 01:57 - 196

lulz.

That is all.

Oh wait, no, that's not all. All you PvErs are bad. Complaining that things werent uber-buffed. Gtfo and lern2play.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

22 May 2008 at 01:57 - 197

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

There's no such thing as overboard, because PvEers don't understand or care about balance to begin with. PvEers want overpowered. Izzy said so himself.

Think for a moment - what's actually wrong with my idea of Chimera of Intensity? You don't have to use it if you don't want to. It won't affect your enjoyment of the game - it won't affect anyone's enjoyment of the game, unless they want it to. It is explicitly your choice. PvEers have been arguing this line of reasoning since Day 1. Find me the flaw.

Not intended.

That's the only flaw that needs to be said.

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

22 May 2008 at 01:59 - 198

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Not intended.

That's the only flaw that needs to be said.

Spurious argument. If Anet actually did it, it would, by definition, become 'intended'. What would be wrong with them doing it?

What is wrong with overpowered? Why should there be a limit?

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

22 May 2008 at 02:00 - 199

...Might as well put an "I Win" Button on the screen. Press it and you are given credit for all missions and quests in HM and NM, treated to the ending cinematics for all campaigns, given max rank in all PvE titles and given an armor and weapon crafting screen that allows access to all armor and weapon skins.
Did I miss anything?

You don't have to use it if you don't want to, so it will only help those who want it and not effect those who want to win the old fashioned way. No one loses.

BTW, we already have a slightly less powerful chimera of intensity in the game: Consumables

arsie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

N/

22 May 2008 at 02:04 - 200

I hope this means that they can finally have the moral courage to nerf those overpowered PvE Only skills.

Also, it might mean that they can wield their nerfbat with wild abandon with PvP skills.