I cannot understand what ANet is doing.
They change their ideas and visions more often than some people their underwear.
Right now their target group seems to be the dumb player that wants phat lewt easy and likes blowin shit up easily. I just wonder why people always assume the original target group "casual players" is necessarily that dumb.
And this is the beginning of the end of Guild Wars as we know it.
ANet needs to put more challenges into the game. Fewer skills, better quality skills. It has become overly complex with a sheer mass of skills, but not necessarily from a gameplay point of view.
There is no need for people to find out the intricacies of the game which lead to more interesting gameplay if all they have to do is to put ONE overpowered skill on their bar, or some other PvE skills plus some broken skills that wipe the floor with anything else.
They do not even need to find this out themselves, people will tell them. Build diversity and finding out strategies/tactics for this or that area are something of the past.
People, just play some other MMOs out there and compare... if it comes to making PHAT LEWT and just bashing mobs in 3 seconds, there are definitely much better gamers out there!
GW cannot compete on the grind-level versus these games, more interesting and somewhat challenging missions were its trademark. Plus superior PvP.
Getting on your riding dragon and checking mining nodes plus and nuking or hacking 2-3 trashmobs and maybe getting something of limited value (there is nothing really good outside of dungeons) in World of Warcraft is several times better than their dumbed down and even easier PvE world and Ursan Blessing and Farming.
PvE was never meant to be hard, it must be accessible even to bad players. But they are dumbing it down to a level where even totally challenged players will find it totally boring.
Update - Thursday, May 22, 2008
Longasc
dunky_g
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Longasc
And this is the beginning of the end of Guild Wars as we know it.
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I mean, come on, heros.. inscriptions.. ursan..
Ben-A-BoO
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Originally Posted by dunky_g
Mate, That started ages ago.
I mean, come on, heros.. inscriptions.. ursan.. |
Well the shadowform farmers are happy now, anyone else?
I am with those who are disappointed by the update.
I can't see much good coming from the seperation but that is perhaps because I am one of those few who enjoy higher end PvP and challenging PvE.
PvE power crept to a level now that it is beyond my interest. You could argue "You don't need to use ursan & consumables dude!" ... but don't forget that half of the fun was to find the most effective team set ups. PvE lost that for me.
PvP skill changes are mainly the april 1st + steelfang. I hated the update back then and still do now ... would be okay if they screw me over with an update if they would at least address the current problems within the meta; which they don't (see Gladiators Forum for discussions).
Arduin
The start of a new era.
The forth fly
if pve dose not matter to pvp why are there so many pvpers QQ about how easy pve is?,stick to what you know.i dont give a crap about pvp,dont care what they do to the skills so why do you care about pve?.
WARPATh
Anet 1UP
I'm glad with the update, they will fix other skills.
I'm glad with the update, they will fix other skills.
Alex Morningstar
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Originally Posted by dunky_g
Mate, That started ages ago.
I mean, come on, heros.. inscriptions.. ursan.. |
Edit: While I think the seperation of PvP/PvE shoulda been more like church and state at the beginning, this is a step in that direction. Not that so one is easy and the other balanced, but you cannot balance PvE and PvP on the same skill set. They aren't the same.
I D E L E T E D I
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Originally Posted by The forth fly
if pve dose not matter to pvp why are there so many pvpers QQ about how easy pve is?,stick to what you know.i dont give a crap about pvp,dont care what they do to the skills so why do you care about pve?.
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And I am glad I have nearly completed all of PvE on my main char, because PvE has and will become even more boring with the Updates to come.
GG Anet
Lagg
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Originally Posted by Longasc
And this is the beginning of the end of Guild Wars as we know it.
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No, my friend, this is getting closer to the end of the end.
Mind you, I'm sure there's still a lot of people out there having a great time playing the game and I'm sincerely happy for them. However, we're far far away from what Guild Wars was to many of us two to three years ago.
With every "big" update I just keep hoping this will be the opportunity for me and my friends to start playing again and we're obviously disappointed time and time again.
All I can say is that we have (unrealistically) high hopes for Guild Wars 2.
fenix
This isn't the beginning of the end of GW, that happened when they decided to remove the GWWC, but not put in anything as good. And then 6v6 HA...then all the other dumb choices they've made...
the_jos
Quote:
| Right now their target group seems to be the dumb player that wants phat lewt easy and likes blowin shit up easily. I just wonder why people always assume the original target group "casual players" is necessarily that dumb. |
There is a difference between the way PvP and PvE function that justifies some diversification between the skills used.
This difference was introduced mainly with Factions and NF.
A skill like LoD was completely nerfed out PvE.
WY same problem.
And the casual player, I think we should forget about them.
While they may exist it's hard to determine who they are.
The current changes made things not that much easier for most players.
Players with knowledge of the game mechanics will benefit most of them and I won't consider those players 'casual'.
Gun Pierson
Vanquishing and HM were boring easy anyway so now with some of the updated skills I can make that experience last shorter and steamroll even faster and get over with it.
DoA original release was hard and I liked it. But we don't have any of that sort of level of hardness anymore imo. So I like the update so far.
To me it doesn't make the game easier than it already was, just makes me deal faster with the boring stuff.
DoA original release was hard and I liked it. But we don't have any of that sort of level of hardness anymore imo. So I like the update so far.
To me it doesn't make the game easier than it already was, just makes me deal faster with the boring stuff.
zwei2stein
WTS: Vanquisher run. 5k per area. 7 spots free.
nekopowa
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
Vanquishing and HM were boring easy anyway so now with some of the updated skills I can make that experience last shorter and steamroll even faster and get over with it.
DoA original release was hard and I liked it. But we don't have any of that sort of level of hardness anymore imo. So I like the update so far. To me it doesn't make the game easier than it already was, just makes me deal faster with the boring stuff. |
I just wish DoA was more challenging as before, gemsets are real cheap now and just going lower and lower...
Pleikki
WOO LoD is back!
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
WTS: Vanquisher run. 5k per area. 7 spots free.
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Actually, perma SF is a bit TOO easy now. I tried it at my mesmer, and even when I casted arcaned SF 6 seconds too early, I still managed to maintain it. Kinda lame. Oh well, solo players have SF, pug idiots have Ursanway.
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
WTB Crystal Desert run. (touch necroes + well of profane)
Actually, perma SF is a bit TOO easy now. I tried it at my mesmer, and even when I casted arcaned SF 6 seconds too early, I still managed to maintain it. Kinda lame. Oh well, solo players have SF, pug idiots have Ursanway. |
However, point stands, my assassin did some solo vanquishing already. SF is kinda monster right now.
Abedeus
Yeah. I mean, it was already before, even if you could only arcane echo it (before Nightfall and perma SF). Am going to show a pic why it's uber now.
Pocketmancer
I don't see why so many people are getting fed up about all of this. If you are still playing the game at this point, then you can stomach it. GWG has really become a playground for kids who end up saying everything is bad because apparently the game is able to keep them playing for so long. Get over yourselves already.
kvndoom
I play both sides of the game, so I affected on both ends of this kind of update. Separation or unison of PVP and PVE isn't the problem; Izzy's inability to balance Guild Wars is the problem. This update doesn't address any of the problems in either side of the game. Not that PVE really had any real problems, other than Ursan rank discrimination. There's a reason I don't do HA; welcome to that world.
I am SO making a PVE assassin after this weekend (gonna be too busy farming lockpicks thru Monday). Why bother farming with any kind of lesser build anymore?
Wounding Strike, Foul Feast, and Wail of Doom make any organized PVP stupid right now. I have more fun in RA than anywhere else these days, mainly because there I'm not guaranteed to see at least one of those 3 skills every single match.
I am SO making a PVE assassin after this weekend (gonna be too busy farming lockpicks thru Monday). Why bother farming with any kind of lesser build anymore?
Wounding Strike, Foul Feast, and Wail of Doom make any organized PVP stupid right now. I have more fun in RA than anywhere else these days, mainly because there I'm not guaranteed to see at least one of those 3 skills every single match.
Lopezus
This discussion about how PvE is ruined never ends. "PvE is too easy and boring" - really for some people it is and for some it is not but truth is that in pve you can play whatever you want without affecting others players. No one is forced to use ursan, consumables, heros etc and reading all these posts about ruined pve almost everytime the greed or elitism is involved : now everyone have acces to high end pve, now everyone can farm this or that ,now everyone can have this title, now everyone can make this run etc, but why do you really care ? Rationally if it isn't all about money there is no point in crying "an idiot can make <insert thing here> these days.
Pocketmancer
@ kvndoom
Most of the complaints I've been reading in this thread is more or less stating how Anet is supporting farmers (and who really cares if they do? The economy isn't nearly as significant in this game as others and the zones are instanced), the game becoming too easy (get over yourselves already), the end of Guild Wars (and yet, you go cheering that it's double lockpick weekend), etc. Very little was mentioned about the "balance" issue (which I do agree with you there). But of course, on the internet, people complain just because they can, even if they secretly do enjoy the update.
Most of the complaints I've been reading in this thread is more or less stating how Anet is supporting farmers (and who really cares if they do? The economy isn't nearly as significant in this game as others and the zones are instanced), the game becoming too easy (get over yourselves already), the end of Guild Wars (and yet, you go cheering that it's double lockpick weekend), etc. Very little was mentioned about the "balance" issue (which I do agree with you there). But of course, on the internet, people complain just because they can, even if they secretly do enjoy the update.
Darkobra
I like the idea of this. None of the current changes really affect me. I'll be looking forward to see what they're capable of with this new system, though.
Antheus
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
[FONT=Tahoma]
Now ANet actually caters to this, and these hundreds of players are nowhere to be seen. Where, after dozens (including myself) started flame wars over PvP/PvE debates, are these players who so ardently cried for this separation. |
I keep hearing that for "casual PvEer" balance doesn't matter.
That simply means, that for them, this update hasn't happened. There was no update, nothing changed.
So where is this magical benefit? Are there really 50% of players who have been stuck on THK because WY was nerfed? Are there really masses of people who couldn't complete RoF because Shadow Form couldn't not be kept up permanently? Are they really excited and returning to GW because Discord is now spammable?
The BMP isn't affected by this. And all other content is a year or more old.
For everyone who *doesn't* care about balance, what is left? Storyline and nothing else. And that wasn't improved.
The only people who care about this are farmers who do enough runs for this to matter to them. Splinter weapon became popular with GW:EN dungeons. SF is farmer's best friend.
What does everyone else run? 3 fire eles....
If you read comments about GW on various boards, one thing sticks out: "Beautiful Graphics". That is the voice of "casual, who doesn't care". Shiny effects, nice trees, a rabbit.
But put shortly: If someone doesn't care about balance, what did this update do for them? Not caring means not caring about underpowered or overpowered. It means not even knowing what the currently optimal splinter weapon build is.
MrSlayer
All this bitching about it making PvE too easy, you people all forget one damn important thing.
Remember when WoH was finally buffed, and turned into a decent healing skill? And then remember the minutes-later outcry about how nobody could do this that and the other in HM because the Monks were too overpowered.
You whiny bitchy people forget that the monsters use these skills too. And honestly, if you still think "omg PvE is totally imba" then you're running way WAY too much Ursan, and need to play some old-school PvE.
Remember when WoH was finally buffed, and turned into a decent healing skill? And then remember the minutes-later outcry about how nobody could do this that and the other in HM because the Monks were too overpowered.
You whiny bitchy people forget that the monsters use these skills too. And honestly, if you still think "omg PvE is totally imba" then you're running way WAY too much Ursan, and need to play some old-school PvE.
Lopezus
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| But put shortly: If someone doesn't care about balance, what did this update do for them? Not caring means not caring about underpowered or overpowered. It means not even knowing what the currently optimal splinter weapon build is. |
A Leprechaun
I think this will make PvP better and PvE is going to become awful.
~A Leprechaun~
~A Leprechaun~
Arkantos
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| I think this will make PvP better and PvE is going to become awful. |
Avarre
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Originally Posted by MrSlayer
Remember when WoH was finally buffed, and turned into a decent healing skill? And then remember the minutes-later outcry about how nobody could do this that and the other in HM because the Monks were too overpowered.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MrSlayer
You whiny bitchy people forget that the monsters use these skills too. And honestly, if you still think "omg PvE is totally imba" then you're running way WAY too much Ursan, and need to play some old-school PvE.
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I didn't even notice when WoH was buffed for monsters, because their skillbars still sucked and they still died easy. PvE remained as easy as ever.
DutchSmurf
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Originally Posted by A Leprechaun
I think this will make PvP better and PvE is going to become awful.
~A Leprechaun~ |
Just look at the amount of discussion on the PvP board, the amount of GvG's played. During the last month, any discussion died quickly. Hardly anyone cares about the balance changes made for PvP, because they hit skills people ran last month, not this month. The main discussion is about how the Temple should have PvP skills instead of PvE skills. Making predictions for the MAT has never been harder, because there aren't enough good guilds left to choose from. All signs, both ingame and on the forum, point to high end PvP being (close to) dead.
On the PvE side we see lots of happy farmers, people who somehow still have faith in Anet and tell us to wait for more changes and people who are disappointed. The mood on the forums has been going down and this update did nothing to stop the negative spiral we are in. Of course, as soon as more info about GW2 comes about, people will get excited again. But until then, it would be nice if the devs at Anet did something positive to shake up the game, get people enthusiastic. Add an insanely hard dungeon, a sealed-deck tournament, something. Just so I can remember how good GW used to be.
Diddy bow
I like the shadow form buff i can probs keep it up constant easier now 
(in pve) gogo chest running.
(in pve) gogo chest running.
The Way Out
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Antheus
I keep hearing that for "casual PvEer" balance doesn't matter.
That simply means, that for them, this update hasn't happened. There was no update, nothing changed. So where is this magical benefit? Are there really 50% of players who have been stuck on THK because WY was nerfed? Are there really masses of people who couldn't complete RoF because Shadow Form couldn't not be kept up permanently? Are they really excited and returning to GW because Discord is now spammable? The BMP isn't affected by this. And all other content is a year or more old. For everyone who *doesn't* care about balance, what is left? Storyline and nothing else. And that wasn't improved. The only people who care about this are farmers who do enough runs for this to matter to them. Splinter weapon became popular with GW:EN dungeons. SF is farmer's best friend. What does everyone else run? 3 fire eles.... If you read comments about GW on various boards, one thing sticks out: "Beautiful Graphics". That is the voice of "casual, who doesn't care". Shiny effects, nice trees, a rabbit. But put shortly: If someone doesn't care about balance, what did this update do for them? Not caring means not caring about underpowered or overpowered. It means not even knowing what the currently optimal splinter weapon build is. |
Furthermore, PvP skill balancing isn't really balancing at all. People are going to exploit whatever they can because they are intelligently seeking the best means of getting an end result. It is how nature as people to do things the easiest fastest way. It is also the nature of dumb people to bitch about how other people are getting over on them. If you are not actively seeking to shorten your time and effort in a game, then you are below the mean on the IQ scale and probably get immense enjoyment out of powering on your computer and watching your Windows logo sparkle.
When you voice your opinion on an online forum for a video game that is split up between two playing systems and riddled with children and bots, expect shit not to go your way.
Darksun
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Originally Posted by Hott Bill
Splinter weapon was nerfed because of this:
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Avon45
Ever tried it? It really is enjoyable and a pity they took it back.
At least give us an option to toggle the pre-nerf Splinter Weapon when you have the margonite quest active.
Although I can't really understand why people are so much againt SW revert. It's not like it's going to hurt *their* gameplay...
At least give us an option to toggle the pre-nerf Splinter Weapon when you have the margonite quest active.
Although I can't really understand why people are so much againt SW revert. It's not like it's going to hurt *their* gameplay...
BuD
Quote:
| lol that's quite possibly the most hilarious GW screen shot ever. |
Shendaar
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Originally Posted by The Way Out
Your lack of intelligence is pretty apparent when you you can't beat a PvP team that is running "static" gimmick builds.
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Please try to make an effort to think things through before posting.
Bryant Again
...
Honestly? It sounds like ANet is actually listening to the forums. This is not a good thing, since forums are where people like to complain about their farming build nerfed...
So they're listening, just to all the wrong people. I thought this was something Strain said *not* to do.
Shit.
Honestly? It sounds like ANet is actually listening to the forums. This is not a good thing, since forums are where people like to complain about their farming build nerfed...
So they're listening, just to all the wrong people. I thought this was something Strain said *not* to do.
Shit.
kobey
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
...
Honestly? It sounds like ANet is actually listening to the forums. This is not a good thing, since forums are where people like to complain about their farming build nerfed... So they're listening, just to all the wrong people. I thought this was something Strain said *not* to do. Shit. |
Btw, Ursan is still untouched? (probably posted already
)
Bryant Again
Naw, it's still happily kickin' away in DoA (sadly).
At least I can shove this update in Loviatar's face : P
At least I can shove this update in Loviatar's face : P
fgarvin
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
So they're listening, just to all the wrong people. I thought this was something Strain said *not* to do.
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