The Madness That Is Ether Renewal

Just another QQ thread And when people disagree with the OP.. they are trolling

It amazes me why people get so upset over how they feel others need to play the game. I don't tell you how to play, I didn't pay for your game.

Skills that make it easier are available, so what?? You don't like it, don' use it, simple. Let other players who paid for their own game play however they please without this urge to tell them what to do and how to do it.

Don't see why they fixed all the exploits, then. Because, as you say, people didn't need to use them.

The matter is much more complex than this.

Agreed with JetDoc, by the way: I am now writing down, with ANet officially jumping the shark.

And wow, Unienaule still reads the forums??

This is strawman.

Why should anything be balanced in PvP? You're free not to play it. Play PvE instead, if you think it's not balanced properly.

This type of 'GTFO' argument can be applied to anything. But it doesn't improve or help anything or anyone.

Don't like dealing with idiots? You're more than welcome not to play online games.
Don't like others complaining about a game? You're more than welcome not to read forums.
Don't like other people's opinions? You're more than welcome not to post here.

See? It works for everything.


Oh RLY?

This is telling others how they should play.

Don't like this thread? You're more than welcome not to post here.
Don't like the other's opinion of ER? You're more than welcome to have your opinion.

I really love this new way of "do what you want". But I'm not contributing much, am I?

The PvE PvP Split Update has been brought to you by... People Like This Guy(tm).

Oh, and yeah, I read the forums a little. My LOTRO server is down for an hour.

Further edit: I concur. Houston, the shark has been jumped.

You just need more enchantments for yourself.

Are you suggesting for Ether Renewal to be... Ether Renewal'd again?

lol?



As for my own opinion... yeah, it's obviously broken as hell. But it's broken in PvE, so I don't care.

The underlying problem is that A-Net has lost touch with the main-stream PvE player base and doesn't understand why many PvE players adapt certian play styles:

PvE players want to kill the largest amount of enemies in the fastest time for one reason and one reason only: LOOT. Raptor farming didn't become popular because it's easy, it got it's popularity because of the loot that dropped there. And it's still very popular for farming during the special drops events. If people wanted "easy" they'd stay in Old Ascalon or the noob islands!

Lots of high-level enemies + fast run time = More in-game wealth. (NOT "epicness")

The fact of the matter is that they're destroying any feeling of "epicness" by dumbing down PvE as much as they have. EXAMPLE: THK used to be a bit of a challenge, now - even in HM - it's a joke. Back in the day, beating THK gave people a sense of accomplishment. Now it's just a boring piece of silliness (even before Ursan) that doesn't even make sense (What military genious is going to attack a fortress by sending in two people at a time?).

I laugh at all the people who QQ about Ursan and how overpowered it is and how it has allowed anyone to go anywhere in the game and do anything. Sure it is an extremely powered skill, sure it has made aspects of the game easier, the point is though that you still need to have a basic understanding of the game to succeed, don't think this is true? Just ask anyone who has gone to UW with an Ursan team and had someone load up on all the quests at Reaper of the Labyrinth and see how much success they had?

Show me you doing this well, and I will believe you. You would be at -10 energy regen, and since you only have 4 enchants (you could have more, but w/e) on yourself, you wouldn't be making enough energy at all whatsoever. ER only really works we in situations where you (the ele) are not enchant stripped, e-denied, or interrupted, and where you have to spam skills that may or may not be expensive. It really isn't god-mode, so stop making it out to be. Once you would get all the bonds up, you would literally have to spam Aura of Restoration just to keep spamming Aura of Restoration. Then what would you be? A bonder that can't even move. <_<

Now I am by no means saying that this skill is not powerful, but you can do much with it at all.

^You obviously haven't tried using it to it's full extent then, or even seen some of the screenshots.

121212121212121212... etc? oh wait I forgots three..


Tip: If your middle and index fingers start to get tired, switch to your baby and ring fingers.

Also lol.

I agree and I'm happy to see more POWERFUL skills come back to the PVE side of the game. What I hope to see is more POWERFUL skills compared to UB so we can start using more than a couple. Bring back the power of the NECRO as well with 30+ minions and unlimited energy. I'm glad Anet is not catering to the hardcore that want everything to be hard or impossible except elite guilds and guild members. This game was paid for by EVERYONE and EVERYONE should have access to EVERYTHING regardless of how easy it is for some.

Now try to get that build into any pug. Heroes don't mind, people are too blind to notice this beats ANY monk.

That is the problem here, but it is your problem. If you can´t step back and find a attribute point distribution and choice of skills, that make the game fun for you, than that is your problem.
Some people play at maximum level and have fun doing it. Some "gimp" themself and have fun with it. And some play at maximum level and cry like babies, instead of changing their bars, to make it fun again for themselves. Maybe GW is not the game for you anymore.

There is a difference between "intention" and "mistake".

My cat won an award at latest competition, earning me $200.

I used this money to buy GW. As such, cat paid for it.

I DEMAND that GW is made playable by my cat. It paid for the game, and needs to be able to play it.

Make a fool-proof system, and only a fool will use it.

Less QQ, more PEW PEW.

Let the ele's have their fun. Why does it bother you so much? Are the eles in PvE affecting you somehow with their limitless energy? Are they coming up to you in towns and poking fun at your soul reaping?

Maybe I should start a thread about necros and soul reaping and how they can pretty much maintain Ursan indefinitely because of it.

This game has enough nerfs hitting the classes that we don't need people crying for more nerfs to class specific skills.

Let the farmers have their [shadow form]. How does that hurt you?

Let the eles have [ether renewal]. Means they don't get to use another elite.

Yes, [ursan blessing] is imbalanced.

Yes, I hate the fact that [volfen blessing] gives no armor bonus so the only classes that can really use it effectively are wars and paras.

Yes it sucks that Necros got nerfed with soul reaping and minion limits (I have a necro on my old account that's almost 36 months old).

But really... stop QQ'ing. It's PvE. It's only as fun as you make it to be, and right now, it seems like you don't want to have fun anymore.

Did you even read the post I quoted? Why would I mention that not using it to it's full potential mean I can't step back and look at it?

And how does that stop the fact that it still effects you? Sure, this game can't be perfect for everyone, but why should carebears get things from crying about things so trivial?

Do you want me to tell you what brings people like me back to this game?

The PvP in it is great. No amount of gimmicks will change that.

I still find PvE fun, and am keeping up, making new characters and continuing for rank 6 KoaBD for my Ranger.

And the main thing: It's free. You don't have to pay monthly fees for this game.

Relax, there are far worse PvE skills out there than unlimited energy for Elementalists.

I used it to spam Air Magic skills and went back to just spamming Searing Flames in all non-Destroyer areas. Heroes do not use it good enough, and I had better things to do than to bring Ether Renewal. You should bother testing this yourself, if you are alone the skill does not really matter. In a group of experienced players it is an unlimited source of energy, but it would not matter anymore either, IMO!

I can see people use it to power Healing Builds and spam Heal Other / Jamei's Gaze and Heal Party. Besides that, I still prefer to be a Necro, my Elementalist still cannot compete with my Necro... so do not bash Ether Renewal that much.

But the question is if R10 Elite Ursans will accept anything else than 2 proper monks healing them! :>


Does Ether Renewal really matter if there are so many skills that already make PvE by far too easy?
ANet just added one more skill to the list of skills that are bad for the game, and I think it is very low on that list compared to other skills.

GW has reached a point where it cannot be saved anymore. I think it is too late to cry about spilled milk. They did not test most PvE skills properly, they range from total utter crap to game breaking. And their PvE/PvP split idea was good on the drawing board, but it ended as people predicted in even more imbalanced skills for PvE.

"Because overpowered skills are fun." - Izzy already said he did not mean it that way, but I just do not believe him...^^


We can only hope they do not start the way they ended in GW1 in GW2... :/ Their chance to reset the power creep and make more meaningful and less imbalanced skills.

Then I don't see why ANet has such a pressing urgency to fix all of these exploits. I'd understand if it was to "make their game look good", but most of these exploits just brought you to the end of the game quicker - which is the same end result as buffing skills to oblivion.

If it works well with heroes, who needs PuGs???

And you do UW hard mode, DoA and so on...how?

I use Guildies.

I am sitting here laughing my ass off at this. Any idiot saw this coming. If you broke PvE away from PvP, it was clear that PvE was going to be even more ridiculous and easy than it already was. PvP is what kept THE ENTIRE GAME in balance.

Anybody claiming Ursan is not easy button is bad at Guild Wars. Anybody claiming Ether Renewal is not broken as hell is bad at Guild Wars. The only question is whether or not having stuff broken as hell is good for Guild Wars. I've been saying since day 1....NONONONONO.

The thing thats hilarious is, the majority got what the wanted, and now there are minorities that don't like the changes breaking off from the majority! Welcome to the minority club! Face the facts people...the majority want to "feel epic" and destroy monsters and get loot just like Izzy said. I'd be shocked if anything from here on out got nerfed in PvE.

Yes, I have and all your posts in here and all the other players that cry, because they can´t "gimp" themselves, but, yes, I maybe should have quoted someone else. Sorry for that.

I had quite a lot of discussions with the "elitist" idiots, that can´t step back and want things nerfed into oblivion, because of that. If you are not one of them, than I give you my sincerest apologies.

I don't think I've seen anyone claiming it isn't. All I've seen is people saying 'DUN LIEK IT DUN USE IT!!!!!!11' and 'It's good for PuGs/casual players'. But yeah, that still makes them bad at Guild Wars.

Ether Renewal: lol. The sad thing is ANet would probably be more willing to nerf this than Ursan.

Heh, some people seem to love the new ether (and the other imba pve updates/skills) and others hate it.

Lets face it; Pve is easier now than it has ever been before, if you think otherwise you dont play very much or you simply fail at the game.
While I like being epic and (In my case since Im an ele) spamming prot skills all over the place - easily outproting two or perhaps even three monks in a lengthy PvE battle - I dont like mindless grinding without any real challenge in it, which PvE has been turned into.

So what to do about it? From what I know, nothing will be done and PvE will forever be a sandbox for people above average skill (and a paradise for thoes below). Though, if I ruled the roost, Id do what Anet has done with us to the PvE world: Buff it. Add a few skills to the mobs, give them a few extra levels, let them work better together - simply make them mean enough to put up some resistance (in HM, let those who think pve is good as it is have NM for themselves). Not like this is ever going to happen, but I would love it! Everyone doesnt play PvE for loot and a walk in the park - some wants a challenge.

And for a serious solution for ether; drop the energy gained per enchant to 2 and let the recharge be. With many enchants it will still be godly, but much harder to manage effectively.

PvP had to be balanced or it defeats the purpose of it existing, not to mention GW made money off PvP competitions. I don't exactly see PvE competitions in GW's future. PvE doesn't need to be balanced, honestly, because it was already far too easy to begin with. This half caters to the casual or horrible players, but so does the severing of PvE/PvP balance updates. There's absolutely no reason for everybody to try and push their views and playstyle on everybody else because they lack any self control to just NOT use something they don't agree with. Seriously, the skill wasn't seeing any use when it was nerfed, so just keep not using it and pretend it's nerfed. Would I care if Anet tried to fix its obvious flaws? No, but it's not like my heroes were going to be using it anyway.

After 3+ years of this game, it honestly doesn't matter what they do to PvE because you'll all get your panties in a twist anyway. It's much easier to just let it go when it's something like this that really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Now, continue on with what will probably be 20 pages of random entertainment!

/thread

couldn't have said it better myself.

The problem with all of these updates as that people who were "skilled" before are now gimping themselves. By not using Ursanway and instead thinking my way through areas with configured builds, by not using PvE consumables and other PvE skills, I am in conclusion not using all of the tools given to me. I am forcibly gimping myself. The challenges I used to face before have now turned into self-imposed challenges, and that sucks.

While this isn't directly related to your post, I saw the word "gimp" and decided to speak up.

Well... is there a PvE ladder?
Will anyone getting more energy make you have less?

In PvE you don't compete against others, so the differences when you bring your own skills doesn't matter.

If an elementalist has a skill that gives him quite a lot of energy when not facing enchant removal, then other professions should get other skills empowered...
Oh... wait, they had. All of them had skills empowered.

In PvE there is no 'balance', just... 'halting' when necessary. If they see that Ether Renewal is 'too much', and see that there is some people 'complaining about that' (*titter*), then Izzy will take care of that, don't you worry (*chuckle*).

not just another ursan whine thread... hasn't the world 10000000000000000³ enough ? >.>

I agree, ER needs a nerf, along with other skills in PvE.

1. Not all PvE players asked to be separated.
2. We never asked for an unbalanced game, those who wanted to be separated wanted to stop being effected by PvP balancing, and have their own balancing. That, in effect, will make the game harder, not easier.

I agree, ER, SF, and Ursan all need the "nerf-bat" to hit them. I still don't see how people think making the game easier makes the game more fun. I have found that most people I talk to about difficulty of a game prefer the harder games because they give a better challenge. I know not everyone is like that, but what is the point of Hard Mode, when it is still too easy?

Ever heard of a Toucher Ranger? Thats the main thing. Expertise effects too many skills, spirits, touch, and ranger? Make it just Ranger skills please. *This is not a QQ about R/Rt Spirit Spammers or R/N Touchers, I have played them, fought them, killed them, been killed by them, I don't care but Expertise is too powerful, and for too long*

Just because people complain about past things, and people complain about current things, does not mean that the same people complained the whole time, and does not mean that the game is what they wanted when they get something. As I stated, people wanted the split so that PvE can become more balanced, not less.

Notice he said Soul Reaping needs another Nerf.
It is impossible for any group of people, when large, to know what is wanted as a whole. There are too many different ideas that is just cannot be done, sadly.
The problem is, even hard mode is easy now with these crazily buffed skills. Ursan made it a joke with running an Ursan group before the split. Let Normal mode be the mode for the inexperienced, and Hard mode become actually hard with all skills, for the experienced.

I complain about skills being overpowered, but I don't use them. The closest skill to being overpowered I use is Death Blossom, and no, I don't use mobeus strike, I use Way of the Assassin, or sometimes I use Shattering Assault, which removes Death Blossom too. My heroes don't use singly overpowered skills either, I just found good ways to get ok and underpowered skills to work in builds. I never use Ursan unless I must to get into a guild group, and I never use Consumables. So, I am the perfect example of the con to your arguement.

That actually happened to me in a Ursan PuG group. We still survived somehow. That was a shock to me and what was the main reason for me to not like Ursan.

Hence, the point of that. Improper balance was a "mistake" caused by ANet mistaking what PvEers want. They(Anet) claim PvEers want the game easy for "Epicness", but it is, in fact, easy for loot that they want, and that is only for those who want loot, which is not the population as a whole. In other words, Let Normal Mode be easy, let Hard Mode be hard. I personally wouldn't care if they reduced the loot rate in Hard Mode, and made a NM/HM split, as long as they actually balanced the skills. But I know that will not happen.

I can see it now. Economy drops from over farming. Monks are useless, as are N/Rts now. All non-healers, non-farmers, must be Ursan. It's PvE, its only fun to people who don't like shutting themselves off from humanity if they have the right build. Lets all stop QQing about the impeding doom of fun (to laugh at) experiences of PuGs, and all seclude ourselves in our groups of Heroes and Henchmen. Lets just ruin society a little more until it collapses.

All jokes aside, Making PvE too easy doesn't help everyone. Not using these skills prevent PuGs, and yes, some do like to PuG. Like say, those who don't have EN or NF and cannot use Heroes, or perhaps those who love to "meet" more people, or even those who join PuGs because they are sick of being alone, even if they have a guild, or just simply those who laugh at their past PuG experiences and want a sense of nostalgia(if thats how you spell it).

Thing is, its not an URSAN whine thread. It's an IMBALANCED thread. Use whine if you want, I wouldn't because I must say that I am disappointed with ANet with the outcome of the PvE/PvP split. I was really hoping to get more nerfs then buffs for PvE, it was too easy as it was, and its just getting worse. I am starting to doubt that GW2 will be good.

Attention ANet: Stop making things easier! Normal Mode was hard enough, and introducing Ursan was terrible. I was glad with Hard Mode, but now that is becoming too easy, even with making builds that are not imba. Nerf the Imbagon, Nerf Ursan, Fix the game! Please!That is all

It's a conspiracy!!!!1
xD

What else is new?

In many high-end areas there are specific counters to the strategy you just outlined (e.g. interrupts, shatters, knock-downs). The micromanagement would be horrible and you would have run with guild groups to make your strategy even remotely viable. I remember bonding on my monk - whenever anyone loses a bond and doesn't announce you have to stop and ask which slows down the group and pisses people off.

ER simply opens Elementalists to filling roles that non-elementals would traditionally fill (see Touch Rangers, Rit MM Bombers). Moreover, this skill is a viable alternative to SF or Double Attunements AND lets you use PvE spells with energy return.

Does this upset the game balance? Not necessarily. You won't see ER solo farmers ruining the economy (i.e. Shadowform, 55s, 105s, etc).

Simply, if you don't like ele bonders with infinite energy, don't party with one of them. It seems that you are complaining about the devs trying to make a PvE-worthless ELITE into a useful skill again. They did - so what? In fact, I hope they do that to EVERY PvE-worthless elite in the game!

There is always going to be a group of people you piss off by changing anything. I am happy to see positive changes for underutilized skills - now they need to tone back Ursan.

The same purists who are having conniption fits in this very thread? Ursan makes things very easy, therefor I do not use it. Imbagon makes things very easy, therefor I don't use it. Notice a trend? No one is forcing you to "fall in line" as it is. All I hear about is overpowered PvE skills and cookie-cutter builds. Why force yourself into another cookie-cutter build simply because a skill is now overpowered? Did that someone nerf the build you've been using for all this time? No, so continue to use that one and let the people who want to have overpowered skills use them.

You guys are so thick to believe everyone should hold the same high standards and see things as you do. Obviously you are the minority, just the very vocal minority. Would I mind seeing a huge nerf to these skills? Not at all, but then again you don't see me trolling every thread with their mention for attention. Rather, I'm playing the damn game.. my way.

It's statements like this that show how little people get "balance" in PvE.
The only thing we can say with certainty is that skills that only have a PvP form (= a version of the skill that is used in both PvP AND PvE!) ARE unbalanced in PvE.
Other skills - might be unbalanced in PvE.

You mean to the level of ... let's say ...considering that the necros actually pay for certain skills with hp these days ... instead of gaining energy the necros gain a certain amount of hp for each rank in SR? Like ... completely TRASHING SR?

Because there is kinda a difference between "a nerf that is acceptable" and "a nerf that would balance SR".

Changing energy to health gain would a very weird twist. I personally say that the health sacrificing skills that are 1 energy need to be raised when talking about necromancers. 1 energy cost + 3/4 energy gain from [Masochism]=2/3 energy gain per skill. That is out of shape, even with the health sacrifice. Soul Reaping should probably get a longer time then "15 seconds" for the energy gain net. Or less times of gaining energy. Of course, unlike Expertise, this has a catch of things having to die.

And, I am not one to think of balancing ideas, I'm sure they wouldn't work out. And don't say I shouldn't criticize on balancing methods, because just because I cannot think of how to balance something out initially, doesn't mean I cannot see how something would/would not work for balancing. Lastly, yes, there is a difference between a "nerf that is acceptable" and a "nerf that would balance"

Brrr... the game is already so broken that one or a dozen more broken skills cannot break it even more.

Enjoy this state till GW2, and be prepared to wait for Blizzard to release Diablo 3. Or that ANet gets back on track with GW2, which I seriously doubt.

How many of us would have purchased GW at the time of its release if the game had only 2 professions, everyone had the same 5 skill bar except for the monks who had 8 and you were guarenteed to never fail at a quest or mission. Pretty sure the answer is not many. And yet this is what Anet has turned the game into. No longer is there any sense of satisfaction in beating difficult areas. Fun games offer challenge and don't give out automatic success. Sadly the people at Anet have forgotten all about their original vision and have instead turned a once epic game into a hollow shell of its former self.

I for one will wait and see what transpires over the next month or so and if PVE does not get whacked severely with the nerf bat so the game offers strategic challenge again (and I am not talking about pumping up the bad guys yet again with even more over powered skills) I will find something else to play and when GW2 comes around I won't even give it a trial run. From my perspective, if Anet has screwed my gaming experience once already why should I give them a chance to do it again.

Touch Rangers aren't exactly the FotM c-space to fame builds that people are using in HA, degenerating it.

If you read on, and you read my posts in the thread "Expertise" in Sardelac, you'll know I'm all for removing the -energy off non-primary Ranger skills.

When things are overpowered, they are not fun. When you're against them, or playing them, they are not fun. When you know that that's all people use, it affects you.

Things so trivial are not worth whining about, especially since PvE is easy in escence, because of the fact enemies are oh-so predicable.

When they affect the main priority of this game's balance (PvP, in general), trivial effects on PvE (Skill balance) cause an uproar of whining from alot of the PvE community.

PvE skills didn't affect PvP, but what it did affect was some of the PvE community.

And without a balanced game, the PvP'ers so to speak lose enjoyment in their part of the game because people can't adapt. Now don't get me wrong, but these people adapt and use their own player skill against these overpowered things, but just because they do, and counters exist, it doesn't stop it from being overpowered.

Something so trivial shouldn't cause a withdrawal on skill balance. I'm talking about the update that was forced to revert, and the PvP/PvE split.

And even then, some PvE'ers demand balance on their side of the game. I'm not so often playing in PvP myself unless it's possible, and me being in an American guild may cause problems with that.

The point here is that people don't like overpowered things. Playing against, using, or even having them in their vicinity.
Having a game rushed to completion is bad for the most part, and this affects every single person who plays the game.

There will always be people who say a skill is just "ok" even when it is beyond ridiculous.

You missed my point. I meant that almost all balance was based around PvP, and that was better for PvE than the current system. The split was only meant to please the majority, and guess what...the majority could care less about balance. The pve players caring about balance are now in the minority. Welcome to the club PvPers have been in for over 3 years.