The Madness That Is Ether Renewal - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

31 May 2008 at 00:16 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

If Ether Renewal is overpowered, why my E/Mo can't get into pugs as a superior to monk healer? I have better self-heal, better party and single-target heal, yet I don't have any chances to get into a pug. So it's NOT overpowered.

I think because the masses don't realise this yet. I made a protection ele hero to test and it's amazing how the build works. The only prob is that he won't use the build to it's fullest potential as the AI is limited. A human player can pre-protect. Skills like aegis, protective spirit, extinguish and other energy draining skills are no problem while spamming reversal of fortune and other low energy spells like shielding hands etc. Healing and protecting the whole group in the process. 'Burst Cancel' below me reminded me about the bonding possabilities.

I'm not taking sides at this point (even though I'm for a split, but we're talking about one specific skill here). You know you're powerful, just wanted that to add.

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

31 May 2008 at 00:18 - 122

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

This is definitely a case of "be careful what you wish for".

That bit only applies when the people doing the wishing are stricken with some unintended consequence of their wish. In this case, I would say that the people who actually wished for this got exactly what they wished for. The only people who are dismayed are the people who were against this from the start because they knew what would happen.

Whoever is up there playing the "It's just a game!" card, keep in mind that there are different kinds of games. Tic-Tac-Toe and Chess are both games, but there is a huge difference in the quality and complexity of their mechanics. Casual gamers are TTT players, so if game companies keep catering to them, the industry is going to be left with a bunch of shallow games for incompetent morons.

It's too late for GW though. Just toss it on the heap with Tic-Tac-Toe and wait to see if anything better comes along.

But yeah, in the meantime: Chimera of Intensity and eight elites. Come on!!!! *whine whine whine*

------
Edit: the old Ether Renewal builds have been known for a long time since they were, of course, the reason the skill was nerfed in the first place. Since energy pips can only go to -10, you can maintain as many enchantments on as many people as you want provided you have enough enchantments on you to make up -10 pips (-3.33 nrg/sec).

Put frankly though, ER is an infinite energy engine - you can use it to power whatever the hell you want. Put prot bond back on your bar. Spam 25e skills on recharge. Use your imagination.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

31 May 2008 at 00:25 - 123

Well if so many of you DIDN'T want this to happen, where were you in all the "split pvp and pve" threads huh? Why weren't you posting "No, don't do this, it will make PvE imbalanced", or "We need balance so that skills aren't TOO overpowered"? Well? Oh that's right, none of you cared.

Basically, too late now.

Turtle222

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

:D:D

D/W

31 May 2008 at 00:39 - 124

Many veterans that remain are still blind as to what direction anet is going. Those that left the game and are still commenting here do have their opinions read, but not considered in my eyes. Times have changed.

This is my opinion, but it appears that many people wanted Anet to revert to prophecies ways since they remember having fun. This is mere nostalgia. Anet introduce these skills to make pve easier because the playerbase demands it. No-one really wants, well not me anyway, to replay a campaign more than once or twice for every char. these skills allow them to get it done faster.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

31 May 2008 at 00:51 - 125

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

As Izzy said, the majority just want to blow up everything with really imba skills. That has happened, enjoy.

Izzy is an idiot if he said that. Oh wait a minute, that has already been established from his skill fixes over the last few years ...

I havnt read anyone wanting Ether Renewal or Shadow Form to get buffed this much, they got the idea for it themselves without testing it.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

31 May 2008 at 00:52 - 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Izzy is an idiot if he said that. Oh wait a minute, that has already been established from his skill fixes over the last few years ...

His skill changes were like because the people above him didn't want PvErs to get mad, which of course made the changes AWFUL. So really, stfu.

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

31 May 2008 at 00:52 - 127

Gosh if we could have the days of Prophecies back Anet could take away all the "newly added or newly buffed" overpowered/imbalanced skills.

*no loot scaling
*no AoE scatter (if you think some of the skills on the Ele is overpowered now you should see how it was before when nothing ran from AoE)
*book trick was still in place (was a bug/exploit or something along that line but it was available for a very long time, everyone knew about it but hardly anyone complained because it was a ton of fun and to think we have Ob Flesh tanks nowadays. pitty)
*pre-nerf Soul Reaping
*unlimited minions (Sorrow's Furnace occupied a crap load of my time...someone say Ursan is overpowered? pitty)
*blood of the master had no penalty (ties together with above statement in keeping a large army of minions alive...I'm talking in the 20-60 minions range or something to that extent)
*Absortion runes stacked
*pre-nerfed Armor levels...(all the -# damages apply to only physical now among other things)
*AL stacking with multiple skills beyond 25AL
*we didn't have HM (i wish we did have it back then but just goes to show how easy it was back then)
*monster skills (inner fire? call of torment? wtf is that? Says 2005)
*no environmental effects

I'm sure there are a lot more but can't think of them right now.

Boy we had it good. To think we have imbalance and overpowered skills now says the few. Game was ridiculously easy back then. Far easier then it is now even with all this overpowered sutff floating around. All this stuff about Anet dumbing down the game is ludicrous. The game was never hard to begin with. The game was far more dumbed down back in the day. The enemy AI was retarded at best. Anet has come along way people. Ursan is imbalanced? Where the hell were you in 2005? Under a rock?!

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

31 May 2008 at 00:57 - 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

His skill changes were like because the people above him didn't want PvErs to get mad, which of course made the changes AWFUL. So really, stfu.

What? His skill changes for three full years gave no consideration whatsoever to PVE.

And no one in PVE wanted crap like Ursan untill Anet put it into the game.

No one actually wanted all of these PVE skills.

All we wanted from the first day was PVE and PVP skill seperation, and they take three full years to do that and turn it into a complete joke!

BTW revert Stoneflesh Aura back to its previous duration and give Mhenlo in Eotn LoD back! I cant see how they missed doing little simple things like this with this update.

The only two skills that were majorly affected in PVE by PVP balance recently were LoD and WY. The rest I couldnt care about, at least not about any were changed in this update.

All of this is a joke by Anet to its players. A joke because they cant get anything right in the first place.

Also, removing loot scaling and AoE scatter in PVE would be a far better thing to do then all of this skill seperation crap that they cant even get right. And yes, revert soul reaping for PVE FFS. I dont play a necro, but how would giving them SR back in PVE be bad in anyway?

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

31 May 2008 at 01:13 - 129

You think Izzy was responsible for that? It's the people above him. They are catering almost entirely for PvErs because that's where the money comes from. Obviously there was a desire to blow things up all day, so they helped PvErs do that by adding PvE skills and such.

Izzy doesn't decide what skills get added...

tuna-fish_sushi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

California

E/A

31 May 2008 at 01:24 - 130

Hey I have this Crazy idea!! If you want a challenge or think a skill is to powerful... Don't use it!!??

"Hmm I just owned up HM with my new ER build, i wish it was more of a challenge. I know I'll change my build!!"
-Tuna Fish Sushi

I always wanted to quote my self...

Seriously I don't see any reason to nerf pve skills.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

31 May 2008 at 01:32 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuna-fish_sushi

Hey I have this Crazy idea!! If you want a challenge or think a skill is to powerful... Don't use it!!??

First class, new argument right there. And not totally retarded.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

31 May 2008 at 01:54 - 132

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

You think Izzy was responsible for that? It's the people above him. They are catering almost entirely for PvErs because that's where the money comes from. Obviously there was a desire to blow things up all day, so they helped PvErs do that by adding PvE skills and such.

Izzy doesn't decide what skills get added...

Actually, that's not entirely true. He is given an icon, and builds a skill around it. At least this was the case for Prophecies-Factions-NF. Who knows for PvE skills.

PvE doesn't need a real balance. Yes there can be overpowered stuff like there is now, but it needs to be beatable, and have many viable builds. PvP balances more than accomadated for both, and if you stopped using the PUG mentality, there was many viable builds pre-Ursan. Unfortunately, very few people did this, and blahblahblah.

lacasner

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

31 May 2008 at 02:13 - 133

This was just so blatantly predictable ever since Anet decided to go this route with balancing. I'll repeat what I've been saying for like forever, that PvP gets skill balance preferences first, and PvE lives with it because PvE is EASY. I know, it's shocking for some people on this forum to hear that, but it's the truth.

Clarissa F

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Fighters of the Shiverpeaks

Me/Mo

31 May 2008 at 02:13 - 134

You could put ether renewal in Air and let everyone have it. GOGO Dervish e-management with no avatar!

I like what has happened to PvE. It's driven me to PvP, realizing how good that side of the game is in comparison. It's bad for those who have skills in PvE to play the game, and spent their time developing them. For the other 99%, they are the reason heroes were created, the reason anyone with two brain cells goes with guildies or H/H instead of PUGs, and the reason it has been so dumbed down.

For that 99%, have fun with whack-a-mole, tards.

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

31 May 2008 at 02:26 - 135

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

and the reason it has been so dumbed down.

Do you know how much easier it was before in the early days? You think it's dumbed down now? You missed the boat 'cause the ship already sailed. They are slowly making it as easy as day 1 but Anet ain't quite there yet. Maybe a few more QQ threads before that happens.

Hyper Cutter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Knights of the White Eye [HINA]

31 May 2008 at 02:42 - 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

That's because not using them and leaving them aside means you're gimping yourself.

Who would want to gimp themselves now?

That IS usually the way people make challenges for themselves in games ("I'll play the game using X character/no items/no magic/ at low levels/etc")...

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The skill actually doesn't matter.
The start of this idiotic thing is that Kunny is floating in the air and can not be reached by melee guys!!!!
Talk about balance!
*rolleyes*

Also that whole "interrupts don't work on Kuunavang most of the time" thing...

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

31 May 2008 at 03:16 - 137

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

That IS usually the way people make challenges for themselves in games ("I'll play the game using X character/no items/no magic/ at low levels/etc")...

In the bad games, maybe. The good games tend to have built-in difficulty (e.g., Devil May Cry's DMD mode, Valkyrie Profile's X crystal runs, etc.).

Edit: "DMD", not "DMC".

samifly

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Girl Power [GP]

Mo/Me

31 May 2008 at 03:43 - 138

Ether renewal at least requires some brain work to devise your build or steal it off PvX wiki. Unlike Ursan.

I miss my old Guild Wars. When people seemed to give a care. Every update like this makes me want to buy GW2 less and less.

GW used to have some strategy at least.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

31 May 2008 at 03:55 - 139

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

In the bad games, maybe. The good games tend to have built-in difficulty (e.g., Devil May Cry's DMC mode, Valkyrie Profile's X crystal runs, etc.).

God I love Devil May Cry. That is quite possibly the best action rpg ever made. Go away Diablo.

My rule of thumb is that if I can't beat the highest level of a game, it's well balanced. This means there's always room to improve and whip the AI a little more effectively. Games from the Nintendo era fit this fairly well, primarily to satisfy the arcade audience. if players keep dying, they keep pumping in quarters. For better or for worse, games lately favor accessibility - any schmo can beat the game without too much undue effort. This isn't completely bad, players feel ripped off when they can't make any progress in a game they paid 50 bucks for. Anyway, harder modes and endgame content often exist to satisfy the need for a challenge.

Guild Wars doesn't have any challenge left. Any idiot can beat all of hard mode and the elite missions given time. There aren't obstacles to be overcome, the learning curve is a slight downward slope, and there's not motivation to become engaged in the game. For the thick, this is a bad thing.

For the tired old argument of playing with 4 skills/solo/drunk:

Would it be a good game for the Arsenal to play a youth soccer team while hopping on one leg? Would the Tour De France be a better challenge for riders if they had to have flat tires? The biggest part of the fun of a challenge comes from trying your very best to improve yourself. When you add artificial roadblocks, you remove that idea of trying your best.

TL;DR version: Bah, games are too easy today, you kids get off my lawn.

Nightmares Hammer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/

31 May 2008 at 04:08 - 140

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

God I love Devil May Cry. That is quite possibly the best action rpg ever made. Go away Diablo.

My rule of thumb is that if I can't beat the highest level of a game, it's well balanced. This means there's always room to improve and whip the AI a little more effectively. Games from the Nintendo era fit this fairly well, primarily to satisfy the arcade audience. if players keep dying, they keep pumping in quarters. For better or for worse, games lately favor accessibility - any schmo can beat the game without too much undue effort. This isn't completely bad, players feel ripped off when they can't make any progress in a game they paid 50 bucks for. Anyway, harder modes and endgame content often exist to satisfy the need for a challenge.

Guild Wars doesn't have any challenge left. Any idiot can beat all of hard mode and the elite missions given time. There aren't obstacles to be overcome, the learning curve is a slight downward slope, and there's not motivation to become engaged in the game. For the thick, this is a bad thing.

For the tired old argument of playing with 4 skills/solo/drunk:

Would it be a good game for the Arsenal to play a youth soccer team while hopping on one leg? Would the Tour De France be a better challenge for riders if they had to have flat tires? The biggest part of the fun of a challenge comes from trying your very best to improve yourself. When you add artificial roadblocks, you remove that idea of trying your best.

TL;DR version: Bah, games are too easy today, you kids get off my lawn.

/agree

12 chars

Sora267

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

31 May 2008 at 04:11 - 141

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

God I love Devil May Cry. That is quite possibly the best action rpg ever made. Go away Diablo.

My rule of thumb is that if I can't beat the highest level of a game, it's well balanced. This means there's always room to improve and whip the AI a little more effectively. Games from the Nintendo era fit this fairly well, primarily to satisfy the arcade audience. if players keep dying, they keep pumping in quarters. For better or for worse, games lately favor accessibility - any schmo can beat the game without too much undue effort. This isn't completely bad, players feel ripped off when they can't make any progress in a game they paid 50 bucks for. Anyway, harder modes and endgame content often exist to satisfy the need for a challenge.

Guild Wars doesn't have any challenge left. Any idiot can beat all of hard mode and the elite missions given time. There aren't obstacles to be overcome, the learning curve is a slight downward slope, and there's not motivation to become engaged in the game. For the thick, this is a bad thing.

For the tired old argument of playing with 4 skills/solo/drunk:

Would it be a good game for the Arsenal to play a youth soccer team while hopping on one leg? Would the Tour De France be a better challenge for riders if they had to have flat tires? The biggest part of the fun of a challenge comes from trying your very best to improve yourself. When you add artificial roadblocks, you remove that idea of trying your best.

TL;DR version: Bah, games are too easy today, you kids get off my lawn.

I agree wholeheartedly, especially with the last bit.

Owik Gall

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guardians of the Light

W/Mo

31 May 2008 at 04:43 - 142

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Alright, well...

Arenanet introduced the different Blessings - Ursan, Volfen and Raven. I am sure they did not even understand at the time what an impact this would have. They were also apparently completely incapable of balancing the blessings against each other, with Ursan by far being the strongest of them all. They have stubbornly refused to change them, with the result being that for all but the very, very, very strongest teams, Ursan Blessing is now the way to beat PvE. Basically, it is a skill that allows every player with even a minimum of in-game skill to beat every area in the game, in Hard Mode as well as Normal Mode. What it comes down to is that everyone plays the same bar (except the monks), and nobody designs their own bars anymore, because why bother when Ursan is so strong?

There is a contender to this that I myself made. Although I have to say that later on I saw similar builds with the same skills as mine. It's basically 'Godmode', only I made it differently and it was purely coincidental (I swear to you all). Here, this is what I had BEFORE they nerfed Steelfang Slash (the bastards...)

[Steelfang Slash][Brawling Headbutt][Flail][Enraging Charge]["For Great Justice!"][Mental Block][Word of Healing][Vigorous Spirit]

This was when there was no recharge time to Steelfang. It worked exceptionally well in the Bison Tournament, and as a matter of fact it worked better to protect myself then Ursan would've. The Mental Block, Vigorous Spirit, and Word of Healing ensures great protection and healing while the immediate and constant KD has no contest. Compared to Ursan, I'd say my build was better. I'll let you all judge for yourself. It's not as effective now since the nerf. DAMN IT!...

But hey, I showed this to you to prove that at least one person thinks outside the box and made a build manually with creativity. Something that you've been asking for when you started this thread. I will assure you once again, I solely thought of this build without looking into previous builds at all. I just read through a lot of skills and did trial and error runs.

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

31 May 2008 at 05:05 - 143

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

When you add artificial roadblocks, you remove that idea of trying your best.
...

No, you don´t and it speaks volumes that you can´t see that. You are still trying your best, but under different circumstances. Try your best using only 4 skills, middle armor or 4 attribute lines, etc. This is the reason, why people play simultaneous chess against several others or why they play chess with a blindfold or etc....

Don´t blame your inability to make yourself a challenge on the people, that only want to have fun and maybe only play 30 minutes a day.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

31 May 2008 at 05:14 - 144

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

This is the reason, why people play simultaneous chess against several others or why they play chess with a blindfold or etc....

You mean like making an argument without a clue?

Games like that are a laughable gimmick, not real competition. A game between two grandmasters is competition and challenging, a game where a grandmaster beats the snot out of unskilled people in the park is insulting to the poor schmuck who gets beaten and isn't a serious game for the grandmaster.

Nobody is blaming the lack of a challenge on the unwashed masses. The issue is that Anet seems to have no idea how to integrate both player types.

Foe

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

31 May 2008 at 05:26 - 145

boo f***ing hoo, reap what you sow kiddies.

"WHAAA CASUAL PLAYERS CANT PWN CHAR ITS SO HARD WHAAAA"

Edge Martinez

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

NC

DKL

31 May 2008 at 05:31 - 146

PvE is just boring now. I couldn't agree more with the OP. Ursan has to be ANet's way of thinning out the playerbase for some nefarious purpose. There's no other reason to throw such a twinktastic skill into the game.

Of course I don't have to run it if I don't want too, but then I'll get invited into how many PUGs? Maybe a few if I'm playing a hb monk... so I can heal the Ursan's.

Hell, why not do an update to Ursan so they recieve health too with every hit? It's possibly the only way to take it one step further than the worst idea ever.

strcpy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

One of Many [ONE]

31 May 2008 at 06:28 - 147

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Games from the Nintendo era fit this fairly well, primarily to satisfy the arcade audience. if players keep dying, they keep pumping in quarters.

You ought to go back and play some of those games now - they weren't really as hard as you remember (or at least they aren't for me). Years of gaming reflexes make the games fairly easy now. Games today are MUCH less newbie friendly.

There are exceptions, but then I worked until I had to start gimping myself in those too. A great example is Contra - it got boring when I beat it with the normal gun and no deaths. Then there were the games that required luck to get through some point too, but I don't think that we want that now. Even then I didn't have near the hours invested in beating Contra as I do in GW.

My bet is if you put what time you have played into one of those games that you have in GW it would have become trivial faster than GW ever has. I've been playing GW about 1700 hours now and I don't even log on every day. You can't expect *any* AI environment to remain challenging yet beatable with that amount of time put in and for the three year crowd I'm on the low end of hours. Even DMC in DMC mode eventually became quite beatable and in far less than 1000 hours of gaming.

GW isn't any easier then it ever was, it is just that after a few hundred (or a few thousand hours) it is nearly impossible to make something you will find challenging for long. The Domain of Anguish is an absolutely perfect example - even pre-nerfs to the area most of the top end PvE guilds were blowing through it. It was only a matter of time before others started too also. THK is no easier than before when it was considered impossible to beat with hench - yet now we know stand here, move here, basically every move to make (much as I did with Contra back in the older days).

Until or unless you (and the others) get over it *all* online games that you spend thousands of hours will end up this way for the same reason - there is no way to make the game so hard that a multi-thousand hour vet with an equivalent guild can not learn to blow through fairly quickly and still have it beatable. You can think I'm full of it yet note that all the examples given you didn't put near the time in before you quit - you will be disappointed for the rest of your gaming career.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

31 May 2008 at 06:39 - 148

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

It did.

Ahh then I didn't miss it.
And you are just simply wrong.

If you have skills that are balanced for the (PvP) set of rules - and those rules do not apply in PvE - then these skills can NOT be balanced in PvE.
It doesn't matter if they are more fun or better for the game or whatever you want to throw in there.
Balanced - they are not.

Greedy Gus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Striking Distance

31 May 2008 at 06:58 - 149

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

It is true that many PvE players asked to be "cut away" from PvP balance. That doesn't mean they asked to be cut away from all balance.

What is "PvP" balance? It seems to me that it would be actual balance, as you're allowing all the skills to be fair game and measured against each other with intelligent use on each side. This is a pretty common phrase I see primarily pve players use: "xxx skill was a perfectly fine skill that got changed because it was exploited in pvp". I'm puzzled by this, because people seem to truly believe it even without any positive or negative context implied. Can someone mention to me any occurances of skills that were perfectly balanced but needed to be changed because of a pvp exploit? Or even what 'pvp exploit' means, if it isn't the true value of skills or attributes?

Players complained every time skills were affected by actual balances, and now complain when actual balance is thrown out the window.

flclempire

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2007

31 May 2008 at 07:22 - 150

I see no difference between the Ursanway and the generic ranger/aoe ele with some super tank to aggro groups. The ursan method just makes things a lot simpler, finding groups, not having to worry about 1 idiot who doesn't know how to use his skills to the best of his abilities, ect. The fact that good pubs are impossible to make makes ursanway a necessity imo. I think anyone going through the game without cookie cutter groups can appreciate the break in lameness.

Cyb3r

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

AFO

E/

31 May 2008 at 07:42 - 151

hehe yeah DMC 3 rocked (even on pc where the controls where a pain (no kidding)) and indeed the hardest difficulty mode was a heck of alot of fun, heck even made me replay the game

(ok at some times replace fun by frustration by bad controls for the pc version (played the same level on a PS2 of a buddy and was ten times easier thanks to decent controls)) but still the game was and remains great

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

31 May 2008 at 07:42 - 152

Lets see ...

Quote: