An Open Letter to ANet - Part 2

http://www.surveymonkey.com?

Or perhaps solicit some tech from Valve , as they frequently do hardware surveys, which require some user response, for their Steam clients.

Or perhaps host an ingame community event where people can voice their resounding oppinion that Ursan Wars has some "issues".

Great post and /signed

Only your mere opinion and not the opinion of the MAJORITY. There are more that dont' come to forums who are enjoying the changes and separations of pve from pvp. Anet is making changes on the WHOLE not just your silly website whiners corner. They have the data of the WHOLE community and once again not just silly whinning websites opinions. They see how many are playing and playing with what skills and I'm pretty sure their data can produce them any information they want to know about how much the community is playing and what they are playing and where, things you can't possibly have ANY substantial information on except your own experiences and a handful of your friends or associates.

So I'll say it again "'Leave the devs alone, they're doing what's good for the game'."

I'm bored with PVE not because of the changes of making it EASIER, but, only because I've played the content and I've played it again an again and I just don't wish to play it anymore. It was definitely fun an entertaining while it lasted from day one to the final day I put my time into it. I certainly didn't mind them making it easier for EVERYONE to get to and enjoy the places I experienced or get the loot I got. I just find that most that complain about the NEW & IMPROVED GW are just selfish and self centered because everyone can certainly make the game as hard as they want and now as easy as they want. There's choices for everyone, it's just that some want everyone to play like they do or the same way they do and that's what Anet fixed/changed....now everyone has choices.

Haha you have no idea what the majority is either. I talk to many people in game since all I do is chat when I log on, and I find many people who aren't happy with what the game has become. Sure players who've joined in the past year might not mind as much, but that's because the game is okay how it is now. But it could have been so much better, and some of us Vets just want to know why ANet decided to change their outlook from making a StarCraft type awesome game, to a generic PvE game.

To top it off, all PvE is now is a vanity/title game. That's ALL you do in this game, or all I see anyone do. I can tell you from playing as much as I do that the minority are the people who log on to play missions and help others. That gets extremely boring after the first 2 months. PvE would have always been like that though, there's nothing Anet can do about it. Maybe change the mobs here and there but I'd still be bored, depends on the certain person.

So quick question:

Why is it a good idea to make it easier for everyone to play through the content again til they get bored, wouldn't you agree it'd be better to make it normal and not fast so people can play longer til GW2?

:hmmm:

edit:
thisis mostly why i started playing PvP anyways. it's the only thing left untouched by COMPLETELY GAME BREAKING decisions.

(thank god)

Dont do that.
If you do that .... you are going to destroy this, once, great game.

---------//---------

Whats the point in having classes, if you can turn into a bear and win all areas of GW. No strategy at all.
Dont make the game easier .... if there is no challenge, why am i gonna continue playing GW ?

And what about the game itself? What does that think?

This game used to be unique, different and competetive.
It was also skill based, and it didn't base your potential on grind.

Ever since the game was diverted by it's producers, the game lost what was unique to it, and it went downhill because it was diverted from being a skill > time game, to being a time > skill game.

These portions of Regina's response crack me up the most because it is BS. Its a cop-out, an evasion...an excuse.

The problem of finding, reading, sorting through all the issues, problems, and feedback of the community would be solved if ANet would simply run their own official forum. By relying on so many separate community forums rather than one single official forum, they have created this problem for themselves.

You want a suggestion for improving it, Regina? Here's one: Create an official Arenanet-managed forum. Ta da!

We know what will happen:

ANet will not get what Avarre is talking about.

And give us one more title track to appease the community!
The new community, that never experienced GW where grind was not the game and title hunt and bears did not exist.


The irony is that WoW will probably feature something similar to titles in WOTLK, which makes me sad.

And i say that from the moment GW turned out to be succesful PvE mmorpg, these expectations couldn't be met. Look in pvp department you can have succesful game like chess that don't require new content and is considered balanced for like 2500 years. That doesn't cut for pve, to keep people playing the game, the new content is vital and the more new content, the more game loses balance as you know it. Even if devs were all-knowing beings, the task of keeping game balanced and feeding it with new content could not be succesful. So they were adressing some issues here or there, fixing some things and sometimes creating more distress but after a while seeing that after all game is still rolling forword they left it as it is. All i'm saying that demanding that devs right now admit that they have failed at creating perfect game and only are only succesful at making great to medicore game is a bit unreasonable.

I agree with this. There should be an official Arena Net Managed forum. moderated by Arena Net community manager(S) that is neutral. no ursan lover of ursan haters

I'll give you credit in saying that his opinion is not that of the majority, but for two reasons: 1. The majority does not have as much time and understanding invested into the game, and 2. The majority just doesn't care - not about his opinion, but everything in general. They don't care about nerfs, buffs, new end-game content, new weapons, elite armor, nothing.

The majority of players care only about one thing: their current task. The "casual" player is the player that is focused on and enjoying what they are doing right at that moment. They're the person who's playing through Vizunah square, the guy going through Kryta, the person beating the crap out of some Kournan assholes.

When Anet created all these PvE skills they were targetted to one person and one person only: the people who whined and whined that they couldn't reach to X objective and who didn't want to learn other methods of success.

And the devs don't always know best. If ANet knew what they were doing, Dervs and Paragons would've remain nearly untouched at the release of Nightfall (they were overhauled).

And I'll say again: I don't mind making the game easier, just as long as it doesn't force others to have to gimp their play.

...In retrospect, I think this one post has been pretty much a repeat of what I've said quite a few times now.

Certainly not something like this? Lolz?

But I think it'd be WoW more ripping off of the 360 than GW. But it is all just a rumor, so we'll see.

So true Tyla !
Skill based ... this supposed to be one of the pillars of GW.
No grinding ... this sucks the most.

To me ..... you guys dont know waht you're doing. You're aiming in
all directions .... and losing precious concepts you used to have.

New content does not need to include new skills and classes. It can include areas/quests/missions/items and so on. The relentless adding of classes and skills has a lot to do with balance issues, and that's a trap Guild Wars built itself into and didn't manage to escape.

Of course new skills and classes are fun, but let's be honest - a lot of new skills are repeats, the new classes are mainly overlaps, and there are a lot of Core/Prophecies skills that did not see use. Purposes for them could have been worked into new areas; a way to maximize the existing solid gameplay mechanics.

ANet built the expectation that each new release would come with more skills and classes. If new chapters had come with new continents without the new classes from the start, I seriously doubt sales figures would have been heavily affected. It might have also given more time for better development on the released chapters, since there's always room for improvement.

The only new class WoW is adding, after quite a few years, is the DeathKnight. In that whole time they've stayed with the core classes, only adding a few skills in between, and still having PvE remain successful. I think this is definitely one of the things ANet learned with GW: New classes, while fun, can cause trouble. Focus and expand on what you've got and you can achieve the same amount of depth.

Edit: I'm only talking about PvE here, PvP in WoW is a whole other bag of beans.

Same here. I've exhausted the content and, at this point, would rather play other games than grind for titles. However, I'll definitely be back for GW2, and everyone I know who played GW is also looking forward to GW2. Yes, the GW PvE population is decreasing--there's no new content on the horizon and not everybody cares about filling their HoM. Perhaps some players have left over the issues described in the OP, but I think most just ran out of things to do that are enjoyable to them. I keep running into GW players in LotRO--every single one of them plans to check out GW2. We've moved on for now, but we'll be back! Since GW2 will be designed from the start with PvE in mind (as opposed to GW1, which was designed to be a PvP game, and thanks Anet for doing your darndest to work with what you had to satisfy a playerbase that turned out to be, probably to your surprise, very interested in PvE), I'm expecting to be blown away by this talented team when GW2 arrives--looking forward to it!

I think this quote can cover much of what I read here.

"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed, in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a wide-spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible." Bertrand Russell

QFT

Everyone I know that plays GW has done everything possible, but they have lost interest. But they will be back for GW2.
So Anet, you're not really losing players, it's just that people are bored and looking forward to GW2.

Well then, I guess my 'minority view' is the most credible thing on the face of this earth.




That aside, I think we both know that applying a subjective viewpoint to something that is already subjective won't go anywhere.

I sure hope that this doesn't mean to invalidate all player contributed discussion entirely? Because if that's the route that GW2 is going to go then we are screwed.

Allow me to pull an Avarre(©) here and quote myself:

So I come back after not playing GW in a while, definately not logging on Guru for a while and I see a thread posted by Avarre to Anet. Thinking, damn it has 20 pages, it should be at least a page of lols mixed in with the other crap. So I read. Avarre, as usual, speaks truth. I continue reading because I was curious not to as what players would say, because I know what you mouth breathing retards (or highly intelligent human beings!) are going to type for the most part. I wanted to see if Anet would answer at all, and if they did what they'd say.

I wasn't expecting an answer at all. After 2+ years of playing the game; change and then the corresponding bitching doesn't usually create an answer beyond an automated response from a customer service machine or a carefully empty response from Gaile now Regina. Anet never was really big on telling anyone what they were up to until it was already happening or right about to happen, if they told anyone at all. That's fine, I didn't mind my bimonthly updates with minimal notes (that I would have to look up) about bug fixes and skill balances. I suppose it's kind of like getting a hooker for the night. Get your bang for your buck and get the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO out right?

In retrospect, I discover, this wasn't terribly unusual, as before now my online games consisted of early Blizzard favorites of the space-faring or demon-slaying variety. Updates were released in large patches that you had to spend a half hour to download, by the end of which I really didn't give a shit what they fixed. There was no semblence of a name to a face for this process as far as I can tell, not that I looked for one.

But I moved on to another MMO since Guild Wars, yes a subscription, no, it's not WoW. The difference between the community relation between my other game and GW is staggering. There are developers, several CR all posting on a unified forum and wiki system that are tied together. Guild Wars, according to the rather empty response generated by Regina, is hampered by having a handful of different websites with members that would trip over themselves to get them answers to the questions they would ask, should they ever ask. Nevermind something as silly as a link to an official poll they could slide into their login screen. They have people who will basically do their own damn jobs for them, for free. Nevermind that any retarded monkey that could type could figure out what the hell people think about their product. They have various sources, many of which are not accountable to them so they can get the quick and dirty along with the brown-nosing asskissers. But no, it's too hard to use google and spend an hour a day power reading through (read: past) some 12 year olds lolcat post.

Before I left, I thought GW was awesome sauce. I didn't really want to find a new game, because I liked this one, but when I left, I saw why it was everyone left before me, was leaving with me, and will leave after me. Anet, you dropped the damn ball and your tactics of burying your head in the sand was/is sealing the deal, the only reason people are sticking around as long as they do are usually because of their guildies anymore. Even after screwing up NF and GWEN, you could have fixed it if you wanted to. If only you were to try.

I think all anyone wants anymore is a straight answer. I am leaving GW feeling like a guinea pig for GW2 and still have no idea how GW2 is going to end up. I'm not going to be buying GW2 when it first comes out. I'll wait for someone else to be the test subject this time.

Russell again says it better than I can.

"The demand for certainty is one which is natural to man, but is nevertheless an intellectual vice. ... But so long as men are not trained to withhold judgment in the absence of evidence, they will be led astray by cocksure prophets, and it is likely that their leaders will be either ignorant fanatics or dishonest charlatans. To endure uncertainty is difficult, but so are most of the other virtues."[

I think a developer's blog would be an excellent idea, as I have seen very little in news regarding GW2, I would be happy even if it said " Today we had a meeting about what colour the box will be"

Heres some certainty.

SOME PLAYERS DONT LIKE WHAT ANET IS DOING

I am not gonna read all the 20 pages, but did we get ant respond from Anet yet?

Lol @ Lyra and yes we did, though it manouvered around what was asked.

Here is some more certainty

SOME PLAYERS LIKE WHAT ANET IS DOING


You can close the thread now, I think its all been covered

Of course it does not need but
so they thought it's good idea.( and seeing people eager to give a try with new class it wasn't missed idea)
maybe yes, maybe no..it can't be verified now. So it's only how succesful are they sales figures from content they delivered.
Sure thing but why it's not happaning and i mean so many games: devs are idiots ?, possesed by greed ?, losing their minds after initial succes ? And i really saw these question being asked so many times before "This could be a perfect game but it's only great/good/medicore, why ?"

I think the better certainty is...

SOME PLAYERS WANT TO KNOW WHY ANET IS DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING

You know, it has been said before many times in many different threads by many different people, but i guess it needs to be said again. It isn't so much so that anet doesn't hear the community, that anet ignores its fanbase, but rather that anet fails at the implementation of whatever suggestions and ideas that the community provides it with.

To go along with the theme of my previous post, anet needs to handle the problem at its roots and the root of the problem is that anet fails at implementation. Yep, repeat after me, anet fails at implementation. Having seen anet's track record of implementing suggestions in GW, i don't have much faith in anet doing a better job even if they come up with new ways to get feedback. Ultimately they will still fail where it matters most, at the stage of implementation, which is really the only stage that matters IMO. Good suggestions turn to crap with bad implementation.

Now this problem is compounded by the fact that anet doesn't really let on, on what they are currently doing/working on. There is a "wall" between the players and the devs that isn't really bridged by the CR team (some would argue the CR team is the "wall"). As such, you have a situation where players are suddenly "dropped the bomb" so to speak, when certain suggestions are implemented out of the blue and in questionable ways as well.

Seriously fix the problem within yourselves and come up with a game direction for gw along with more transparency/communication of dev decisions, before you go asking us for suggestions and feedback cause obviously we are the symptoms and anet is the root of the problem.

I post on Guru, because I like the give and take it provides. I also know that because I post on Guru does not make me part of any great majority of GW players. When you say some players, you should be saying a portion of the Guru posters don't like what ANET is doing. I think for the so called average players (which I consider myself) don't get as upset about things as some people here do. Things like Ursan may be overpowered and maybe only should be allowed in GWEN and not the rest of GW. That said I paid the same money as the rest of you, so please don't tell me what is right and wrong for me.

ps

Basic consumer and marketing and economic law.

Read up on it.

Consumers have the right to complain, and request/demand (note: he isn't demanding) change.
Producers have right to read complaints, and deny or process change.

Taking away the right to either is dictatorship, and goes against the fundamentals of a democratic economic system.

thnx.

"'Fun' (for the PvE crowd) at the cost of another population's (PvP) expense". Not the most well thought-out idea, is it?

Did you miss my post?

Isn't that the same thing as "some players"?

:dunno:

Somebody should summarize the OP and responses for us lazy people. I don't care enough about a video game and its players' opinions to actually read all this, but I'm amused enough by the controversy it's generated to be interested nonetheless...

What horrible quandaries my life presents me...

I post on Guru because I care about the game and the game's state as a whole.

How is diverting the direction of the game a good thing? You tell me, but in the end, players who care about the game, and believe that it is the most dynamic gameplay they have seen, will post on here and explain how they feel about the situation.

Having a bond between a gaming company and it's players should improve the game, because the gaming company understands what those players believe is best for the game. Top players of any game often join forums to share their opinions and thoughts, simple as.

Either way, misdirection of the game's original design, or any game for that matter, is a bad thing.

Summary:

A bunch of people are either not happy or happy with a game and each other depending on whether or not they agreed/disagreed with their perceived level of (un)happiness.

QFT
Regina, seriously, your response answered only like 5% of Avarre's post.
Cut the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO crap and respond to us as a normal person, not like the uber-serious business representative. We need clear, and most importantly SIMPLE answers.
I don't think it's difficult to change your way of talking, now is it?

I'm curious. Just who is jumping on the bandwagon here? Because I see most everyone here who is in agreement with the OP are regulars who have had this same view for a long time, at least, for as long as I've lurked on this forum.

I dont understand why you're so "upset" at others being "upset" enough to have a civilized discussion of the state of the game.

And uh yeah, doesnt "SOME PLAYERS" mean the same thing as a "portion" of the players? I dont understand your nitpicking here.

"It's just knowing who to listen to that can become difficult. But to simply ignore and dismiss *all* player feedback is a terrible decision."

I assume this is what you were referring to. Could it be that some things are in game because people asked for such things? Then once they are implemented and don't work as they wanted them to, they now complain that they should be removed. Where is there any proof that ANET doesn't listen? To listen doesn't mean to do every little thing requested.