An Open Letter to ANet - Part 2 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 18:45 - 401

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I assume this is what you were referring to. Could it be that some things are in game because people asked for such things? Then once they are implemented and don't work as they wanted them to, they now complain that they should be removed. Where is there any proof that ANET doesn't listen? To listen doesn't mean to do every little thing requested.

If they're listening, then they're listening to the wrong people. How do I know they're "wrong"? Well, I'm pretty sure that adding anything that goes against the principle success of your game and turns it into more as a "grind-tasty MMO" is generally a bad thing. Not to mention that they added two additional classes that were so woefully unbalanced that they both needed to be nearly entirely changed in order to be any strain closer to "balanced".

And I don't want them to do "every little thing". I just want them to be at least a bit more careful about what they do.

Lopezus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

MDD

D/W

12 Jun 2008 at 18:48 - 402

Quote:

"'Fun' (for the PvE crowd) at the cost of another population's (PvP) expense". Not the most well thought-out idea, is it?

you can think what you want but why not to consider the thought that since the succes of PvE Gw Anet has impossible task giving and keeping fun for everyone, and giving months of thoughts would not present perfect and possible to implement solution.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 18:52 - 403

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

you can think what you want but why not to consider the thought that since the succes of PvE Gw Anet has impossible task giving and keeping fun for everyone, and giving months of thoughts would not present perfect and possible to implement solution.

I'd agree with you if I did not think it possible for ANet to appease the PvE crowd without adding new classes. See GW:EN? No new classes (save for Ursan, lulz I'm terrible!), just new content.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

12 Jun 2008 at 18:54 - 404

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

I'm curious. Just who is jumping on the bandwagon here? Because I see most everyone here who is in agreement with the OP are regulars who have had this same view for a long time, at least, for as long as I've lurked on this forum.

I dont understand why you're so "upset" at others being "upset" enough to have a civilized discussion of the state of the game.

And uh yeah, doesnt "SOME PLAYERS" mean the same thing as a "portion" of the players? I dont understand your nitpicking here.

I am far from upset, how can you tell that from a typed word? It's just that I know because I post on Guru doesn't make me any better than the whole of GW players. Do you really think being a Guru regular makes someone special? It just means that they have access to a computer, internet and know how to use a keyboard and have an opinion. Just because some of the Guru regulars espouse a position doesn't mean I have to be in awe of what they are saying. Everyone has a right to their opinions and we all have the right to agree or disagree. I know as a Guru poster I am in a small minority of GW players and what I have to say has little importance to most of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

If they're listening, then they're listening to the wrong people. How do I know they're "wrong"? Well, I'm pretty sure that adding anything that goes against the principle success of your game and turns it into more as a "grind-tasty MMO" is generally a bad thing. Not to mention that they added two additional classes that were so woefully unbalanced that they both needed to be nearly entirely changed in order to be any strain closer to "balanced".

And I don't want them to do "every little thing". I just want them to be at least a bit more careful about what they do.

One question. If people don't want grinding why are so many people continually earning max titles? By the way I only have 1.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 18:57 - 405

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I am far from upset, how can you tell that from a typed word? It's just that I know because I post on Guru doesn't make me any better than the whole of GW players. Do you really think being a Guru regular makes someone special? It just means that they have access to a computer, internet and know how to use a keyboard and have an opinion. Just because some of the Guru regulars espouse a position doesn't mean I have to be in awe of what they are saying. Everyone has a right to their opinions and we all have the right to agree or disagree. I know as a Guru poster I am in a small minority of GW players and what I have to say has little importance to most of them.

It's not that they post, it's what they post. It's the type of feedback that people provide that matters most. And that's what can be tough: actual sound and logical reasoning can be tough to find since it can be buried under so much whine, qq, and general hate. But does that mean that devs should give up entirely? God no.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 18:59 - 406

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

One question. If people don't want grinding why are so many people continually earning max titles? By the way I only have 1.

Vanity, and the feeling of accomplishment.

Sure, PvE is easy, but I myself like to overcome these tasks and have a title as a reminder to say "Been there done that".

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

12 Jun 2008 at 19:00 - 407

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

One question. If people don't want grinding why are so many people continually earning max titles? By the way I only have 1.

Because they have nothing better to do? Not all people see the logic in logging off the game when there's no more to do in the game. Maybe some want the title for vanity, what else reason is there to get r6 koabd?

This is just the problem. Guild Wars PvE will never be and would have never been anything more than a "vanity" section of the game which is why Anet should have just continued please the PvP playing part of the game.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 19:01 - 408

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

One question. If people don't want grinding why are so many people continually earning max titles? By the way I only have 1.

It's not that people don't like grinding. I don't mind it much, either. But I have problems with what ANet's promoting with grinding: another normal MMO. It sold beautifully before all of the power creep, so I don't see why ANet had to implement it. Maybe as a means to end-game, that I could understand. But actually receiving benefits? Become a better player just by plunging yourself into a junundu wurm over and over again and killing hordes of undead?

Now why is this a problem? It's catering in MMO players. Guild Wars is not an MMO. I don't want ANet to have to provide for these kinds of people, who don't want to actually have to solve problems in order to proceed to the next area. I want ANet to promote a highly in-depth and tactical game, not one where you solve problems by leveling up.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

12 Jun 2008 at 19:07 - 409

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Because they have nothing better to do?

You can not make that statement for all people, for you can only talk for yourself.

thiagobnu

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

Blumenau - BR

LBr

12 Jun 2008 at 19:07 - 410

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I post on Guru, because I like the give and take it provides. I also know that because I post on Guru does not make me part of any great majority of GW players. When you say some players, you should be saying a portion of the Guru posters don't like what ANET is doing. I think for the so called average players (which I consider myself) don't get as upset about things as some people here do. Things like Ursan may be overpowered and maybe only should be allowed in GWEN and not the rest of GW. That said I paid the same money as the rest of you, so please don't tell me what is right and wrong for me.

What she said is right .... some players dont like all of this bull**.
I'm also consider myself an average player .... and i dont like what arenanet is doing.
Simplifying the game, forcing players to grind (there is lineage for that)....

The vast majority of the game don't upset about things because they dont care. They just play.
ArenaNet has to have objectives ... are they doing simple games for -10 year old players .... or for
a more experinced player that knows how to make a bar that works.

------------------
Are you saying that Avarre's letter dosent mean anything ... just because he speakes in his name,
and not in name of the majority of the game ? Arenanet have to listening to players like him...
because he cares about GW, and he knows the game like a few people know.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

12 Jun 2008 at 19:10 - 411

does no one here read the interviews? i though the interviews answers a lot of the questions posted here.

some quotes:
Mike O'Brian:
"We're not really excited by the idea of changing something that people are attached to."

"According to O'Brian, the genesis for Guild Wars 2 came about during the planning stages for the next Guild Wars campaign. "Guild Wars is a really unique game," O'Brian said. "In looking at the design, we got a lot of things right. The problem was that after two years we also saw a lot of ways in which the core gameplay could be improved. These weren't things that could be addressed by adding new layers on top of the original game, though. They involved going in and making upgrades and improvements to the fundamental gameplay systems. In the end we made the decision that in order to truly make the ultimate version of Guild Wars we were going to have to make Guild Wars 2.""

while you all panic-ly pointing fingers and finding faults with Arena Net, why not wait and see whats in store for us? After all it is (for me) was for you a game that you once love and I still love. If someone can come up with a game design such as Guild Wars, wouldn't you think after 3 years they would have a 50% of chance to come up with the Ultimate version of Guild Wars? give a little credit to these people who after all created something revolutionary in the world of MMORPG.

We will know when the beta is out.

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

12 Jun 2008 at 19:17 - 412

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

You can not make that statement for all people, for you can only talk for yourself.

I wasn't making that a statement, as you can see I had a question mark at the end of it.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 19:18 - 413

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

while you all panic-ly pointing fingers and finding faults with Arena Net, why not wait and see whats in store for us? After all it is (for me) was for you a game that you once love and I still love. If someone can come up with a game design such as Guild Wars, wouldn't you think after 3 years they would have a 50% of chance to come up with the Ultimate version of Guild Wars? give a little credit to these people who after all created something revolutionary in the world of MMORPG.

The thing is that in those three years (more like the last one or two) the game started to go a bit downhill. Now it may not have been "unsuccessful", but I would really consider inversing your game design to be a bad thing.

The reason we're so spiteful and opinionated is that we (subjective term of course) do not want the same thing to happen to GW2. Nor do we want GW2 to become what GW1 has become.

And yes, while we could wait until the beta, I'd much rather be voicing my opinion now so we don't end up being too late.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

12 Jun 2008 at 19:21 - 414

Quote:

Originally Posted by thiagobnu

The vast majority of the game don't upset about things because they dont care. They just play.
------------------
Are you saying that Avarre's letter dosent mean anything ... just because he speakes in his name,
and not in name of the majority of the game ? Arenanet have to listening to players like him...
because he cares about GW, and he knows the game like a few people know.

The vast majority just plays, that says it all.

Avarre's letter can only state his opinion, for he has no right to speak for all and I don't think he ever implied he was speaking for all. I respect his thoughts, but I don't have to agree with all he says, as he won't agree with mine. It's just that I am not in awe of what he says as many in this post seem to be.

Darksun

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

USA

Karr's Castle

W/E

12 Jun 2008 at 19:25 - 415

Yeah this sounds great and everything, but even if everyone on this forum asked for the exact same thing (which we sure as hell don't) it wouldn't accurately represent the GW playing majority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

The vast majority just plays, that says it all.

Avarre's letter can only state his opinion, for he has no right to speak for all and I don't think he ever implied he was speaking for all. I respect his thoughts, but I don't have to agree with all he says, as he won't agree with mine. It's just that I am not in awe of what he says as many in this post seem to be.

QFT. There is really nothing "epic" about this, it's just an opinion. Some of which I agree with some I don't.
Have to take everything here with a grain of salt.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 19:27 - 416

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

The vast majority just plays, that says it all.

Precisely. The "majority" player just plays, regardless of what's happening or not.

So who was it ANet was listening to when they decided to implement all of these things?

sph0nz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

none.

W/

12 Jun 2008 at 19:28 - 417

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

Yeah this sounds great and everything, but even if everyone on this forum asked for the exact same thing (which we sure as hell don't) it wouldn't accurately represent the GW playing majority.

Have to take everything here with a grain of salt.

Fair enough, but you're acting as if the majority is always the best way to go. Clearly, that isn't the case in terms of game development; it may be a good business choice, however.

Zesbeer

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

LLJK

12 Jun 2008 at 19:29 - 418

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

SOME PLAYERS DONT LIKE WHAT ANET IS DOING

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airstu

SOME PLAYERS LIKE WHAT ANET IS DOING

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

SOME PLAYERS WANT TO KNOW WHY ANET IS DOING WHAT THEY ARE DOING

SOME PEOPLE THINK ANET HAS NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND WONDER IF THEY EVEN PLAY THIS GAME

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

12 Jun 2008 at 19:38 - 419

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Precisely. The "majority" player just plays, regardless of what's happening or not.

So who was it ANet was listening to when they decided to implement all of these things?

Maybe they actually look at statistics complied by people playing the game and adjusted their game to what they were seeing. I am not privvy to whom they speak and I don't seem to make the assumption you seem to be making.

Most players don't care what we on Guru have to say about anything and really do just play the game. I do not have the attitude, "I post on Guru therefore what I have to say is important"

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 19:42 - 420

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Maybe they actually look at statistics complied by people playing the game and adjusted their game to what they were seeing.

So they actually want people to not have to think while playing? I don't know of any game developer who would ever want to encourage that kind of gameplay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I am not privvy to whom they speak and I don't seem to make the assumption you seem to be making.

That they listened to a minority, as big a minority as the ones you see here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Most players don't care what we on Guru have to say about anything and really do just play the game. I do not have the attitude, "I post on Guru therefore what I have to say is important"

The people here do not think they're important for posting on guru. They think they're important because they've played for 3 years, know the ins-and-outs of PvE or PvP, and in general know a hell of a lot about the game...And I would consider that pretty important.

thiagobnu

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

Blumenau - BR

LBr

12 Jun 2008 at 19:46 - 421

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

The vast majority just plays, that says it all.

Avarre's letter can only state his opinion, for he has no right to speak for all and I don't think he ever implied he was speaking for all. I respect his thoughts, but I don't have to agree with all he says, as he won't agree with mine. It's just that I am not in awe of what he says as many in this post seem to be.

I respect yout thought's too.
I dont expect you to agree with him, but i do expect you to say what is your opinion.

I'm here just to give my support to avarre.... to let him know that he is not the
only one that thinks that arenanet it's doing a terrible job lately.

Darksun

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

USA

Karr's Castle

W/E

12 Jun 2008 at 20:14 - 422

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The problem is only saying "I disagree".

Nah, I've voiced my opinion before and other people who like certain changes have been shot down by the people who think they know over and over. The only constant on game forums is that disapproval rules. It's easy to do and you sound smart because you can always suggest "better" ways and sight unprovable evidence: "90% of the people who started this game don't play anymore"
I'd like to see changes (that I've suggested) but I don't agree AT ALL that GW is now an unbalanced pile of crap.(btw saying "this isn't a rant" and then shouting the sky is falling doesn't smack of honesty) I can't even take that outlook seriously, that's why I suggest taking ideas like this with a grain of salt.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 20:16 - 423

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

I'd like to see changes (that I've suggested) but I don't agree AT ALL that GW is now an unbalanced pile of crap. I can't even take that outlook seriously, that's why I suggest taking ideas like this with a grain of salt.

If you don't agree with why anything in GW is unbalanced then you're going to have to provide acute reasons for believing so, since many here have had trouble finding reasons for it - "for it" meaning "balanced".

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 20:29 - 424

Anet have already changed the game on a high scale by reducing it's potential.
By introducing new imbalances, by changing the direction of their original vision....

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

12 Jun 2008 at 20:37 - 425

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Anet have already changed the game on a high scale by reducing it's potential.
By introducing new imbalances, by changing the direction of their original vision....

Perhaps the game play changed their view of the original vision. It is their game and they may change it as they desire. If you don't like the new vision just move on to a new game, it's not the end of the world.

Darksun

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

USA

Karr's Castle

W/E

12 Jun 2008 at 20:39 - 426

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

If you don't agree with why anything in GW is unbalanced then you're going to have to provide acute reasons for believing so, since many here have had trouble finding reasons for it - "for it" meaning "balanced".

I see.. so that only goes one way? So I can't just say: "many here have had trouble finding reasons against it - "against it" meaning "balanced"."

NO MMO is balanced. None. I want somethings to change too, but combined they still don't kill the game for me.
Ursan? yeah it's too powerful. SF? yeah, too much. ER? yeah. Soul Reaping, oh geez, that whole fiasco was so over blown. (No, removing e from spirits didn't magically balance everything.)
Heroes are not the end of the world, they added a great dynamic and tried to answer the issues people had with henchies (which now people complain make it too easy) HM got slammed by people on the forums who pointed out how cheap it was, now people complain it's too easy..People hated the PvP vs PvE balance, now they hate the split skills.. bla bla bla...

point is, people have suggestions. Voice them in the suggestions forum, why act like you can read everyone's minds and have the definitive answer to what should be done and must lament the travesty of GW's fallen state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Elitists and veterans are the specialists amongst the many users of this program, in general they know much more about the mechanics and what not compared to the average user. Their feedback is important, even though you may not like it.

So what do you do when the feedback is conflicting? Not easy anymore, huh?

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 20:40 - 427

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Perhaps the game play changed their view of the original vision. It is their game and they may change it as they desire. If you don't like the new vision just move on to a new game, it's not the end of the world.

And even then, they reversed the original design of the game still.

Yeah, it's just a game, but people care about games because they are fun. Guild Wars still carries it's cup as the king of PvP games despite all of this crap, at least in my opinion.

Buster

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Elona

Clan Eternal Legion

D/W

12 Jun 2008 at 20:42 - 428

I think the OP did a nice job of not flaming but yet lending constructive criticism to GW1. Though I must say that games do not last forever and there will always be something better. In Arenanet's case it will be in the form of GW2. Yeah, we all know GW1 has flaws but for the most part just about every Guild Wars player loved the games. GW1 is just mearly scratching the surface of how Guild Wars in general can be come even better.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

12 Jun 2008 at 20:43 - 429

Quote:

Originally Posted by thiagobnu

I respect yout thought's too.
I dont expect you to agree with him, but i do expect you to say what is your opinion.

I'm here just to give my support to avarre.... to let him know that he is not the
only one that thinks that arenanet it's doing a terrible job lately.

My opinion is, I will play the game until it is no longer fun and when it isn't I will play something else. Right now I am still having fun.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 20:45 - 430

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Perhaps the game play changed their view of the original vision. It is their game and they may change it as they desire.

But that's what this whole thread is about - that the direction in which ANet is taking their game is not for the better, and that we don't want to see this direction in GW2. ANet doesn't need to cater to the annoying portion of their playerbase (note: this is not the majority) to be successful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

point is, people have suggestions. Voice them in the suggestions forum, why act like you can read everyone's minds and have the definitive answer to what should be done and the travesty of GW's fallen state.

Well, first off you agree that "this and this are too powerful", yet don't find the game "unbalanced", or you don't see them as problems...Alright. Anyways.

It's not just "suggestions," it's the quality of the suggestions. The quality and amount of the evidence for the suggestion. It's the understanding of the game as a whole in the suggestion, knowing why it should or should not be implemented.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

12 Jun 2008 at 20:52 - 431

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

But that's what this whole thread is about - that the direction in which ANet is taking their game is not for the better,

This is the statement of a self proclaimed elite player, one of a few who know what is best for all.

thiagobnu

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

Blumenau - BR

LBr

12 Jun 2008 at 20:53 - 432

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

My opinion is, I will play the game until it is no longer fun and when it isn't I will play something else. Right now I am still having fun.

Glad to know that.
Im still having fun .... but that fun is almost ending;
Every time i go to TOA and try to find a FOW or UW group ... all i can hear
is REQ10 ursan LFG. This disappointment me.

I look for builds, i try to understand the mechanics, i learn about
conditions\hexes, i ask for help, i learn from experienced players,
i cap skills .....

but look, why have all this work if a bear can solve this problem and make everything easy.

As i said ... this disappointment me.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 20:55 - 433

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

This is the statement of a self proclaimed elite player, one of a few who know what is best for all.

...And unlike most other statements, I among many have provided our reasoning for believing so.

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

12 Jun 2008 at 20:56 - 434

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

So what do you do when the feedback is conflicting? Not easy anymore, huh?

I'm pretty sure that most if not all of the "Elitest" and "Veteran" players that actually voice their opinion on these or other forums have all posted almost the identical response already posted and have posted it many times before, or have just left the game due to the same reasons as posted here.

Darksun

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

USA

Karr's Castle

W/E

12 Jun 2008 at 21:01 - 435

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Well, first off you agree that "this and this are too powerful", yet don't find the game "unbalanced", or you don't see them as problems...Alright. Anyways.

If this is your standard, you are lying to yourself that GW was EVER balanced and should state this from the get go. Don't try to pretend that my standard for what makes an entire game "unbalanced" is so far below yours that you can sit on your horse demanding evidence then shrug off all other views with a "Alright. Anyways" as your acute retort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

I'm pretty sure that most if not all of the "Elitest" and "Veteran" players that actually voice their opinion on these or other forums have all posted almost the identical response already posted this same thing and have posted it many times before, or have just left the game due to the same reasons as posted here.

The problem is that when people are ok with the game, they don't really need to say anything. btw, I'm veteran and I don't necessarily agree with the OP.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

12 Jun 2008 at 21:02 - 436

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Perhaps the game play changed their view of the original vision. It is their game and they may change it as they desire. If you don't like the new vision just move on to a new game, it's not the end of the world.

There are no other games out there that reflect the original brilliant ideas and implementations of GW. The engine is unique and the code is only available to NCSoft.

Name me a game that has all of the following:

- streaming technology
- skill > time view
- great graphics engine that can run on lower systems too
- server system that allows you to play with people from all over the world
- free to play
- henchies and heroes
- regular updates and events
- low level cap so most of the game is made for level 20 and we don't loose a lot of areas you never return to.
- instancing
- fast and easy map travel
- vanity is optional, no über weapons or armor
- almost no grind
- revolutionary PvP
- etc.

The above is part of the formula that made GW a success story. Now pls name a game that has all that if you can. You simply can't.

When it comes to gameplay, at least two things changed, the 'no grind' and 'skill > time' view and they are connected too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

So what do you do when the feedback is conflicting? Not easy anymore, huh?

I agree it isn't easy and I don't have all the answers either.

However, I think on the communication part, an official Anet forum can do the trick. As for implementation, common sense can't be that bad.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 21:04 - 437

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

If this is your standard, you are lying to yourself that GW was EVER balanced and should state this from the get go...

Before I go any further, is this in respect to having monsters having higher levels than the players?

Lopezus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

MDD

D/W

12 Jun 2008 at 21:06 - 438

Quote:

Anet have already changed the game on a high scale by reducing it's potential.
By introducing new imbalances, by changing the direction of their original vision....

You all who think the same imo give too much credit for game developers: they aren't omnipotent beings, they made decisions but often they just have limited choices and sometimes it even turns out that there was no choice. I for one belive that the current state of game (whether you think is trash/flawed/enjoyable ) was determined the moment it turns out that PvE gw is succes and their money making scheme is based on selling new campagins and expansion.

Quote:

When it comes to gameplay, at least two things changed, the 'no grind' and 'skill > time' view and they are connected too.

however sad and frustrating it may be i for one think it was inevitable.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

12 Jun 2008 at 21:10 - 439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

You all who think the same imo give too much credit for game developers: they aren't omnipotent beings, they made decisions but often they just have limited choices and sometimes it even turns out that there was no choice. I for one belive that the current state of game (whether you think is trash/flawed/enjoyable ) was determined the moment it turns out that PvE gw is succes and their money making scheme is based on selling new campagins and expansion.

Part of the conflict is that other choices have already been suggested, and a lot of those alternatives involved expanding PvE with little conflict on PvP. So no, it wasn't that ANet had any alternatives. It was that they thought that they would be able to provide so much and be able to balance it all. Unfortunately, things didn't turn out as planned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lopezus

however sad and frustrating it may be i for one think it was inevitable.

How is that? GW was selling well over four million copies when things started to hit the fan.

Inde

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2004

12 Jun 2008 at 21:11 - 440

Please stop with the back and forth name calling and bickering of what an elitist is, who gets to voice their opinion and who doesn't... any further posts will be deleted on the matter.