Cathedral of Fools

2 years ago any runner that asked for support during the run from the players they're providing the service to would be expected to be running for tips, or a reduced price against the standard. I still see that general rule stand in most of the classic run spots (droks, sanctum, proph/factions/nightfall missions etc) - but the one place that really has managed to shake off this rule is the Cathedral of Flames. Almost every single runner duo will demand players to bring healing skills to keep the duo's smiter alive - otherwise the duo will undoubtedly be unable to complete the run.

So the smiters have two options: either bring a self heal to keep themselves alive without need of help, or demand the people they're running to bring heals for them. The former is fine, I'll gladly pay the standard 2k fee for a CoF run in this case; but the latter is what's really starting to piss me off.

Why should we have to pay the standard fee for a run that we're actively participating in? If you ask me, CoF runners should be assigning one person being run on the team as the 'smite healer', and this person will receive 50% discount - at the very least - on the run for their critical contribution to it's success.

I've tried arguing this to runners countless times, and I always get the same general response, a prime example as follows (a few typos in there on my part, but you should catch what I meant):



Now I've posed this argument in local chat in Doomlore Shrine to players a few times, and responses are divided. Half will be in agreement, the other half will argue that it's hardly any trouble healing the smiter, and that it makes the run faster. If you think it makes the run fast enough to warrant the normal fee, you need to join a runner that has two heroes with them (one smiter, one additional support for 600 and smiter). These runs are about 10 to 15 minutes faster than the standard 600/smite duos, so I tip an extra 500 gold for them (on top of the standard 2k run fee*). They're a proper self sufficient run, and more efficient than the 'running CoF 2k bring heals' mob. Yet so many of you seem perfectly content to be ripped off by these scum.

Come on people, wake up.

Edit: * - This 500 gold tip is an encouragement for them to keep going with the 3 man run, not an incentive for them to start charging 2.5k base fee. Just thought I'd point that out since people are having trouble figuring that out. Not that I blame them.

That's why runners with mesmer smiters are better. No heal needed.

from the screeny above it almost seems you were in full blown conversation w yourself, or the runners name is crazy similar to your own...i hear your point tho, its far from a run when the customers have to support and participate, then its more like a helping hand.

^
How so? They'll be taking the same damage the Monk smiter does.

As for the OP: People are retarded.

you're right
i hate bringing healing all the time for the smiter
it's annoying

I have to agree with the OP. Anyone healing a smiter is doing more work than the smiter unless the 600 dies a lot. All a smiter has to do is bp occasionally, and cast enchantments at the entrance of 3 levels. There's lots of runners that need no heals, no lod, and are fast, if not faster than most of the ones charging people to heal.

Well healing the smiter isn't that hard, but it is a bit more work...

I honestly don't have a problem healing the smiter as long as the 600 is good.

CoF can be completed with a monk smite without healing. The 600 just has to look before they leap, as in, look how many banshees are in the group. If combining two groups ensure each has no more then one banshee each. Use a staff to ensure the banshee don't stop attacking you.

As for assisting in the run, you are helping to make the run faster. As much as I hate to say it I feel 2k is charging too much for a CoF run but at the same time 2k is your cutt-off. If you charge less then 2k you are better off farming CoF instead of running it.

If people start complaining about CoF runs and having to help, the only thing that is going to happen is the runners will start taking a second hero.

Was taking a break from raptor farming and went on a CoF run. The runner was slow and passed up hidden, charr, and chest. I was only there for the Vanguard points for my first time completing but others were there for deliver or drops, passing up these things is something I would have never done.

Might I suggest that when you are being run on CoF you realize that you are the "Customer" and 2k is for hidden, chest, spiders, and all charr. If the runner refuses to do these then leave. Eventually the runners will get the hint. Also 2k means stay near the smite, not directly behind the 600.

Also if a 600 dies on the first level, just leave.

Yep. Gw is serious business to some people though. I don't care that much either. Gives me something to do at least.

When you whisper someone, both yours and their words come up with their name.

All the runners in CoF spam "Running CoF HM, bring heals and lod" so you know beforehand that SOMEBODY will have some heals. Nobody is making YOU be the healer. I've found that a single person keeping a +3 [Mending] up on the smiter is enough, so it's it's not like you have to bring a super-specialized build.

When somebody is running me through CoF, I get really bored if I don't have something to do, and that usually means bad things (aggroing the entire Enchanted chamber comes to mind >.>). So I pack a /Rt restoration build and spam heals

And hey, the quest reward is 1.5k, and 4 drops will make you the other 500 gold that will cover the cost of the run. And after this, you'll have around 5k if you've picked up all your drops. So I fail to see the problem here...

THIS IS GUILD WARS!!!
hope I did it right, anyway yea so why don't all the 600/smite bring an extra healing hero and charge 2.5k, oh wait...

QFT. i work = no pay. they are making a killing on the run itself (which usually nets between 2k-5k w/reward, +6k per run (per person, if smite and 600 split 50/50). solution? have smiter bring mo/? hero, solution solved.

Quoting this glorious piece of dumb before you can edit it away.

It's like being expected to drive when you take a TAXI.

haha that was funny and as he said ok i will brg a 3rd healer hero and charge more or some one can bring hb or some shit and cast in in the 1st room witch is the only place you really need it

I don't take any healing with me on CoF runs. If I did, I wouldn't mind healing the smiter if we got into problems.

Instead, I bring the two rez signets and yell at the runners every time the smite dies. Runners are supposed to be able to do the run, not call on paying customers to bail them out all the time.

I lol'd.

It's quite simple...if you don't feel like you're getting the "value" for the run, don't join up.

Otherwise, arguing with someone about the amount they are charging is just silly. If you don't want to pay it, find a different runner.

I suppose I should be shocked at the people in this post, but sadly I'm not. You've paid for a run, sure, so you can what... stand around for 45 minutes with your thumb up your behind? CoF runs are profitable, sure, but they're also boring as all get out. Oh, and guess what, taking a few seconds to heal the smiter takes *GASP* a few seconds.

I absolutely agree with Kikuta and R.Shayne... I'd really try to emphasize more, but it's all ready been covered by these two posts.

you don't even need heals or an extra hero to heal the smiter if the 600 takes a scythe of enchanting. the scythe will do 1 dmg to three foes and that will trigger RoD back to the 600 instead of retribution to the smiter.

Stop complaining plz. 90% of the time the smiter is a hero, not a person. They bring Signet of Devotion but heroes rarely use it on themselves. The 600 would have to keep themselves alive AND micro manage their hero if no one brought heals. Anyway...most of the time some1 brings Breath of the Great Dwarf so its not like its any great imposition on anyone.

it gets worse, 15k for cathandrax, and we need PI for the wurms. 15k? RIP OFF

i went on one, ended up fighting so much i would of been better in an ursan pug.

run means we do nothing, we should be able to afk at the spawn, no res, no heals etc. or it should be free.

LOD is the only thing i take because it benefits me and the team. Acting as a monk through a run only benefits some noob runner who'd rather the extra slot for 2k more than sacrifice it for a hero healer

Adding this to first post.

One solution to your problem is to do the run yourself in your own way. If this is too much of an issue, I'll gladly run you through in an instance where you don't have to heal my bonder! (Rit 600s FTW!) I do all LoDs on the main route, spiders and chests (aside from any chest in Murakai's steward area... those tend to cause wipes). I only ask ppl to bring LoD (as it doesn't fit on my bar) and if possible gaze of fury to make things go faster.

IGN: Hero of the Ori

Also, anyone saying ignorant things like "if the 600 dies on the first level should just leave" is unwelcome in any of my runs. Have you people never heard of lag? This thread was started to QQ about the running services in CoF... fine I have no problem with that. But if you've run CoF many times yourself (as I have) you'll please not forget to notice that more than 50% of the ppl being run frequently make things more difficult for the runner by standing in bad spots, pulling aggro to the bonder, grabbing dwarven ghosts, standing by the 600 (or running up to get drops while a mob is being fought), or my personal favorite: verbally abusing party members to the point that other people simply leave the group making sure the runner's profits are reduced. Honestly, considering the bargain the ppl getting run get out of CoF for 2K (I frequently run it for 1.5k even), you'd think people would be a bit more appreciative of the service. Compare this to something like a Drocks run and you'll find that ppl expect quite a lot. CoF is a dungeon run, so really the run is to get the dungeon chest. Anything else is bonus really. Even though runners do make a decent profit out of the run, its often not worth the hassle. Farming gets me as much or more in the same amount of time without the idiocy from random people.

I absoloutely agree. I remember a few years back, I paid 500 gold for a run to Lions Arch from Yaks Bend, the runner failed to make the run, and asked for everyone to help out and just kill all the enemies along the way. I saw no reason to pay someone for this so called "run". Obviously just having to heal someone isn't quite as bad, but still..

f you're actually having to help out the runners, then it's not really a run.

lol its so funny when "runners" are like "okay pay me 5k and we will ALL fight our way through! pay at the end."

retardsssssssssssss

All the comments above are reasons why I don't run CoF (or Vloxen) for others but guildies and friends. And then I don't charge them squat because i do it to have fun. And when I do a CoF i take a hero and get on with it faster than looking for smiters and QQers.
But then again why run CoF for pocket change when you get 6 ectos average in UW runs (25 min./run).

I don't understand all the crying. If you don't like the runners just do it yourself ...

they're charging 2k, quest reward is 1k500... that means you get free drops from monsters and hidden treasures, free vanguard and deldrimor points, and a free access to murakai's chest

and you're still complaining because you have to maintain a +3 mending on a smiter ?

do it yourself, or stop complaining for 500g

Agreed with OP. If you're going to run, run. If you're not good enough to run solo, say so.

Agreed. You pay 2k, and you make well more than that in drops alone.

If you charge for a service, you should be able to do the job.
If not go back and practice until you can.

I don't care what drops or rewards I get, they have nothing to do with the running service I'm paying for. If I pay someone to get me from point A to point B, I expect them to do the job, otherwise i can do it myself.

Then why don't you?

Because I'm a lazy arsed sod like everyone else, and prefer to see others do the job.

Well I can see a problem with helping someone thats running you Ascalon to La, for example.
I had runners die constantly and ask for help, it's like wtf? Then they still charge you for doing half the job. Now, those runners don't deserve to charge...

Do people charge for Ascalon-LA runs? I useally do them for free, both ways

Yea people still charge. It's like 2-3k ish.

I run also but usually for free because I know I will mess up along the way :P

i lol'd

have you ever pm'd anyone before?

I don't really get the point of OP. Is this basically a QQ thread about runners in CoF asking people to heal them? An attempt to start a mass boycott of CoF runners asking for heals?

Runners should be able to ask for whatever for a run, as the clients have the choice of accepting the service or rejecting it. Just because they're asking people for some healing help doesn't turn them into 'scums.' If OP is unhappy with what CoF runners are asking for, then he/she should simply not interact with these runners rather than doing whatever he/she is trying to do in this thread.

They are providing a service, if you don't like the terms of that service then don't join their group.