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| ANET stop listening to elitist and let the casual farmer |
[Dev Update] Shadow Form Balance Changes - 2 July 2008
Abedeus
Tyla
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Originally Posted by makosi
I did use prejudice. I said what I knew from facts.
I could also argue that Ursan requires skill. Think of the positioning requred to protect the backline, chaining knock-downs with co-operation and coordination. All of this with only 4 skills, no healing, no hex or condition control and no res. If you do wish to res you have to wait 30 seconds for Ursan to recharge and can't contribute effectively. Despite all of the negatives, it still wins at PvE and gets those irritating HM missions over with. |
Don't get me wrong; I would like to see Imbagon die too. Not to mention consumables. It's simply arguable that the ability to fail with Ursan is extremely minimal compared to a team with an SY-gon.
C2K
As good as this SF nerf was, if they are going to start nerfing skills in PvE, you have to wonder if it was really worth it splitting PvE and PvP.
Abedeus
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| I could also argue that Ursan requires skill. Think of the positioning requred to protect the backline, chaining knock-downs with co-operation and coordination. All of this with only 4 skills, no healing, no hex or condition control and no res. If you do wish to res you have to wait 30 seconds for Ursan to recharge and can't contribute effectively. |
Jiao Yang
Anyone who said SF wasn't affecting the price of ectos was a moron. They're already rising again..
Winterclaw
This update sucks.
I say let the prices go down and stay that way until economic forces bring them back up.
BTW, I am not playing much right now and haven't played my sassi in ages.
I say let the prices go down and stay that way until economic forces bring them back up.
BTW, I am not playing much right now and haven't played my sassi in ages.
shadowmage61
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Originally Posted by Jiao Yang
Anyone who said SF wasn't affecting the price of ectos was a moron. They're already rising again..
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The nerf to SF didn't do anything to dissuade people from farming ecto, all it did was kill most of the other SF farming builds
Molock
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
We established that? Are you sure because it seems to be working for me. No one here is forcing you to use or do anything you don't want to. Few? Anet themselves admitted it was more then a few. If you have an argument please present it, otherwise just going to mark it as a troll post. |
The reason I said it isn't a good argument is because I am not only thinking of myself. I don't use Ursan, I don't use perma-SF (yet I do have an assassin). Here is the thing, broken and imbalanced skills like Ursan Blessing, Shadowform and to an extent Save Yourselves are damaging PvE balance (whatever is left). An elite area is meant to be harder, even more so in HM yet skills like Ursan allow those areas to be steamrolled without any real effort. If you are a "casual" player and don't have the time for elite areas you shouldn't be able to do them. Look at WoW, some dungeons take a long time to complete yet Blizzard didn't give everyone GM abilities so that the "casual" players and get high tier armor easily.
Riceboi
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Originally Posted by ReZDoGG
Really bad move on the Shadow Form change. Thankx to all the damn whiners!!!! they shoulda jus changed Mindblades and left Shadowform alone. I think it is a pretty retarded change, and they should change it back. People were complaining about Mindblades, not every other kind of farming. so it pretty much **** up all my Sliver farming.
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Ate of DK
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Originally Posted by Jiao Yang
Anyone who said SF wasn't affecting the price of ectos was a moron. They're already rising again..
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Now, people realised that they can still farm ecto's and we have an additional 30K favor. The price went down to 4,3K again.
Golgotha
The update in a nutshell:
Shadow Form adjusted to be almost unusable in any and all farms aside from the most profitable, UW ecto farming.
Updated Hero AI.
Shadow Form adjusted to be almost unusable in any and all farms aside from the most profitable, UW ecto farming.
Updated Hero AI.
R.Shayne
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
I'm a casual farmer. Maybe not a casual player, but casual farmer for sure. And I'm not happy that I must make a sin to make profit. Or that I MUST grind my ass to r10 norn/r8 lightbringer.
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600 / Smite Hero and the Mirror of Lyss, salvage your jeweled and ruby dagger and ruby maul for gems, use the measure for measure to increase your chances. Take about 35 minutes to vanq the map and you may get a serpantine axe drop too.
Naphue Quarter, HM Rit/330 can kill all the birds there for feathers and you can get some celestial weapons too. Avoid the bosses. If you have trouble bring a smite hero to add some damage.
Since you will be getting a large number of skill points and crafting material use those to make conset and sell them to ursan teams in the temple of ages.
Every class has a farm they are good at, sins just got reduced to the underworld now. The farm forum has all kinds of good suggestions.
shadowmage61
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Originally Posted by Golgotha
The update in a nutshell:
Shadow Form adjusted to be almost unusable in any and all farms aside from the most profitable, UW ecto farming. Updated Hero AI. |
>.>
O Nuxtofulakas
" We are not opposed to players using Shadow Form for farming, but it is not good for the game economy for high-end farming activities to become too easy or too efficient. ....We will, however, continue to monitor the effects of these changes moving forward and will make further changes if necessary. "
The message is clear...
The only way for ecto is up^^
if price is keep on dropping get ready to place SF next to other useless elite skills
this is just my pov...
The message is clear...
The only way for ecto is up^^
if price is keep on dropping get ready to place SF next to other useless elite skills
this is just my pov...
R.Shayne
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Originally Posted by Molock
The reason I said it isn't a good argument is because I am not only thinking of myself. I don't use Ursan, I don't use perma-SF (yet I do have an assassin). Here is the thing, broken and imbalanced skills like Ursan Blessing, Shadowform and to an extent Save Yourselves are damaging PvE balance (whatever is left). An elite area is meant to be harder, even more so in HM yet skills like Ursan allow those areas to be steamrolled without any real effort. If you are a "casual" player and don't have the time for elite areas you shouldn't be able to do them. Look at WoW, some dungeons take a long time to complete yet Blizzard didn't give everyone GM abilities so that the "casual" players and get high tier armor easily.
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Glade you brought up WoW because that sir is where your elitist attitude belongs. Don't bother responding, ignore list wins ever time.
Riceboi
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Originally Posted by ReZDoGG
I thought the economy was good, because people actually had money to buy expensive items. So what! if the prices on high-end items dropped alil bit, atleast we were able to sell them in a fairly quick time compared to before big SF change. The fact that people had a way to make good money was something I thought was great. I was able to sell stuff alot easier than before because there were more people that actually had money to spend on goods. Now it is going to be alot harder to sell items, and eventually we will make less money. This change will not make the economy better, or make the game more exciting, but only the opposite... some people just don't get it. People all crying around about ecto prices losing their value, so what? Ecto prices dropped plenty of times before, but always ended up raising back up. If we would of just gave it some time, prices would have went up to normal value... but nope, people had to cry about it. If you didn't know, people would eventually get bored of farming ectos over and over and over, and then move on to something else. Eventually less people will be farming ectos, and the prices of ectos would go up over time. Because it was easier to farm ectos, of course value will go down, it all balances out one way or another.
I mean, I ain't poor, I had 250+ ectos before any SF changes (with more than enough gold, and items ot sell), and their value dropping didn't bother me much... mainly cause I don't sell them, or buy high end weapons. Now all farming has been affected by this unnecessary skill change for SF... all because people complained about Mindblade farming. For all you damn cry-baby lifeless nerds who complain about every goddamn game out there, GET A F*CKING LIFE! People act like if the value of ectos goes down, their life will go shit. I mean, a game is supposed to be fun... why try to make a game less fun all the damn time? Now the game is just gonna get boring alot quicker with the 1-2 gap until gw2 is released. Now, alot of people are going to fall out of the game sooner than previously expected. Eventually guildwars will be nothin but ghost towns. |
Pretty much my thoughts. I know I will be playing less guild wars now, and guess what? I was not an assassin ecto farmer, I enjoyed using my asn for other farms that are now gone. Good job Anet!!
shadowmage61
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
Glade you brought up WoW because that sir is where your elitist attitude belongs. Don't bother responding, ignore list wins ever time. |
Hollow Gein
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Originally Posted by shadowmage61
Makes me wonder if anyone in ANet actually plays guild wars
>.> |
Angel Killuminati
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| For all you damn cry-baby lifeless nerds who complain about every goddamn game out there, GET A F*CKING LIFE! People act like if the value of ectos goes down, their life will go shit. I mean, a game is supposed to be fun... why try to make a game less fun all the damn time? Now the game is just gonna get boring alot quicker with the 1-2 gap until gw2 is released. |
Steboy93
It's about dam time, gj anet
shadowmage61
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Originally Posted by Hollow Gein
LOL. I'd imagine the pathetic excuse would be something like..."Sorry. We are too busy making GW2." I don't mind most nerf's but heavy-handed ones like SF is rough seeing as it did nothing to solve the UW issue but destroyed other build. Reminds me of the Soul Reaping nerf a year ago. No thought to it, just changed to appease the e-peen QQ's under the guise of 'balance'.
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Jetdoc
There's already an updated perma SF build posted on the site that works almost as good as the previous build. It's amazing how people complain when they are required to use their brains in the tinyest bit (or exercise some minimal level of skill when using a build).
I think that may be a function of the fact that people now realize that the SF farm is still very much alive with some of the build derivations coming out (primarily focused on condition-based degeneration).
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Originally Posted by shadowmage61
Actually, they rose yesterday once people got the news that SF was going to be worse, and now they've dropped almost back down to where they used to be.
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payne
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Originally Posted by kostolomac
nice work A.net.
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did I read this correctly ? lolanywho couldn't care less about the update having never made a 'sin outside of PvP
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
There's already an updated perma SF build posted on the site that works almost as good as the previous build. It's amazing how people complain when they are required to use their brains in the tinyest bit (or exercise some minimal level of skill when using a build).
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Looks like more ecto farming. More cash for me.
Looks like this needs a harder hit too. Godmode still exists.
romeus petrus
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Looks like this needs a harder hit too. Godmode still exists.
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Avatar Exico
Nerfing SF what a surpised. Assuming the next big nerf is going to be Ursan. I knew SF was getting nerfed because the Dev Update explained it so it was matter of time before it was going to happen. Though Anet is already talking about nerfing Ursan in future. You can probaly say good bye to 2.5hr DoA runs and UW Clears. I assume Anet is going to uber nerf Ursan so that it more balance. Doesnt really faze me I don't play game anymore honestly I could careless if all builds got nerfed.
Skitsefrenik
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
It's coming. Godmode should not exist, it's as simple as that. Get ready for a bigger nerf boys and gals.
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yarddog
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
I'm a casual farmer. Maybe not a casual player, but casual farmer for sure. And I'm not happy that I must make a sin to make profit. Or that I MUST grind my ass to r10 norn/r8 lightbringer.
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and i dont do ursan, nor should i be forced too for the elite areas, and yeah i am R10 norn.
romeus petrus
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Originally Posted by Skitsefrenik
I do not think it will be THAT much bigger. Maybe it could last X seconds according to how many people in your party
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Lest121
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
Then all the solosins will load up on heroes and flag them in the Chamber.
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Nameo
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
Then all the solosins will load up on heroes and flag them in the Chamber.
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Riceboi
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
There's already an updated perma SF build posted on the site that works almost as good as the previous build. It's amazing how people complain when they are required to use their brains in the tinyest bit (or exercise some minimal level of skill when using a build).
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Tom Swift
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
It's coming. Godmode should not exist, it's as simple as that. Get ready for a bigger nerf boys and gals.
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For those who go A/Me and have really good timing perma sin will still exist
Anyone thinking they will do more than that is off their rocker.
Personally, i would like to see reverted almost but not quite to what it was before the buff. Put the timing to where you could just barely maintain as A/E with 16 in shadow arts - keep it possible but demand perfect timing and emanagement.
Golgotha
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Originally Posted by underverse_ninja
You seem to hate Assassin..............I wonder if you Solo farm? because then you just a hater that got pissed his class was left in the dust, it won't get nerf again because this update changed it to make it more Difficult not impossible...........maybe your and QQ brothers can start up another rally.
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
I am holding on to my stacks atm coz honestly I dont really care what happens at this stage of the game's life, and apparently neither does anet; otherwise the chaos plains farm would have been nerfed weeks ago.
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R.Shayne
Thread about talks this morning, link.
This has given me a little hope, I really couldn't care less what they do to the chaos plains, but I do want my other farms back.
Even going back to the pre-buff would be better then the -50% damage. A/Me was easy to maintain, just takes a little pratice, farmed the Fenrir cave until I had my timing perfect.
One question, what is (sig of disenctanment)?
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Originally Posted by Tutis Evito
Some points she raised..
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Even going back to the pre-buff would be better then the -50% damage. A/Me was easy to maintain, just takes a little pratice, farmed the Fenrir cave until I had my timing perfect.
One question, what is (sig of disenctanment)?
lyra_song
Continous shadowform should not be possible.
SF's downside for its great positive effect is the fact that you lose health once it ends and theres a HUGE recharge for the skill.
Great effect, huge recharge.
By using additional skills to extend SF and also shorten its recharge to the point where you can keep it up indefinitely, you essentially break the skill by removing its real cost, the recharge.
The effects of a skill should be proportionate to its cost. Wether its casting time, recharge, or energy cost.
This is called balance.
If you can't see why lack of balance is bad for the game, then I really can't explain it anymore.
SF's downside for its great positive effect is the fact that you lose health once it ends and theres a HUGE recharge for the skill.
Great effect, huge recharge.
By using additional skills to extend SF and also shorten its recharge to the point where you can keep it up indefinitely, you essentially break the skill by removing its real cost, the recharge.
The effects of a skill should be proportionate to its cost. Wether its casting time, recharge, or energy cost.
This is called balance.
If you can't see why lack of balance is bad for the game, then I really can't explain it anymore.
DreamWind
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Originally Posted by Ate of DK
Now, people realised that they can still farm ecto's and we have an additional 30K favor. The price went down to 4,3K again.
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R.Shayne
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
This is called balance.
If you can't see why lack of balance is bad for the game, then I really can't explain it anymore. |
One, what makes it hard for some player makes it extremely hard or impossible for other players.
Two, extremely hard or impossible games don't sell, they are called simulations and they make up the smallest percentage of the gaming industry.
Three, if you wish to have a more challenging game then make the game more challenging yourself, (don't use ursan, take only six skills, use only half your attributes) DO NOT ask ANET to alienate their largest customer base to just to make a few elitist have an more enjoyable game.
Customer want to relax, customer want to get the most for their money, and with the real world economy still declining ANET might want to take that into consideration before making changes that will most likely upset their largest customer base.
Player might want to realize at the end of the day ANET is a business and times are tough and ANET can not afford to upset their largest customer base at any time. ANET knows this and being in the industry they know how many game developers have closed their doors due to lack of profit. With recent releases and future releases of games in direct competition with Guild Wars 1 and 2 and with the general public with less money to spend forcing gamers to make a choice between which game to buy times are going to get even tougher for ANET.
In software development the saying is, “The best code in the world isn’t worth crap if your customers can’t use it.”
Do you really want ANET to go under like some other game developers due to lack of profit? Don’t think I can be anymore clearer.
Skye Marin
SF and Ursan are two completely different things. One was an overly effective solo farming build, and the other is one part of an efficient team build that requires human players to co-operate to succeed.
If your main concern is finding a PuG in a high end area that doesn't want a specific build, then your solution doesn't solve anything. The next most efficient build will just take its place. If your main concern is that Ursan stagnates creative build making, then a duration nerf might be justified, so that Ursan becomes just one part of a player's skill bar, instead of the focus.
If your main concern is finding a PuG in a high end area that doesn't want a specific build, then your solution doesn't solve anything. The next most efficient build will just take its place. If your main concern is that Ursan stagnates creative build making, then a duration nerf might be justified, so that Ursan becomes just one part of a player's skill bar, instead of the focus.
Torabo
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Continous shadowform should not be possible.
SF's downside for its great positive effect is the fact that you lose health once it ends and theres a HUGE recharge for the skill. Great effect, huge recharge. By using additional skills to extend SF and also shorten its recharge to the point where you can keep it up indefinitely, you essentially break the skill by removing its real cost, the recharge. The effects of a skill should be proportionate to its cost. Wether its casting time, recharge, or energy cost. This is called balance. If you can't see why lack of balance is bad for the game, then I really can't explain it anymore. |
Setting aside the question of whether Perma-SF is over-powered or not (I agree it may FEEL over-powered in CERTAIN AREAS, but then so is 600/55), using OTHER skills to remove/reduce the downside of ANOTHER SKILL isn't game breaking or balance breaking in itself. it not like you're keeping SF up all the time and being able to ignore the loss of life JUST by spamming ONLY SF.