I feel inclined to farm some ecto just in spite (though I don't need them for anything).
[Dev Update] Shadow Form Balance Changes - 2 July 2008
tmakinen
Well, I'm amused. What ANet could have done to nerf the Chaos Planes run would've been to change the locations/patrol routes of Charged Blacknesses on Twin Serpent Mountains which would have had a huge impact on permasins and zero collateral impact (permasins elsewhere, other teams in UW). Instead, ANet did something that kept the permasins doing business as usual but which had a huge collateral effect. Way to go I feel inclined to farm some ecto just in spite (though I don't need them for anything).
I feel inclined to farm some ecto just in spite (though I don't need them for anything).
distilledwill
^ now thats a fine idea. Just either add 1 or 2 more patrols. or change them to that you can't get past without engaging at least one mob.
Having said that, I dont mind the changes to shadow form all that much. Its still viable for running etc without being hideously overpowered in farming.
Having said that, I dont mind the changes to shadow form all that much. Its still viable for running etc without being hideously overpowered in farming.
BlackSephir
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
I actually thought ANet did something good. I guess I was wrong. |
BenjZee
price check on ecto 4.5k 
Drake Aran
The 50% damage reduction doesn't make any sense. You're killing SF-based green farming, not only ectos insane drop!
But, even more important, IT'S TOO LATE! Prices will go up again and this is fine, but why the hell did you wait for WEEKS before doing anything? This way, rich people will always be richer and poor people will always be poorer. This is NOT the way to fix economy...provided that you really want to fix it, of course. Thanks to this two updates (the one that permitted Ectos' insane farming and the one that finally nerfed it), you only made the gap between rich players and poor players WIDER. Nice move...
But, even more important, IT'S TOO LATE! Prices will go up again and this is fine, but why the hell did you wait for WEEKS before doing anything? This way, rich people will always be richer and poor people will always be poorer. This is NOT the way to fix economy...provided that you really want to fix it, of course. Thanks to this two updates (the one that permitted Ectos' insane farming and the one that finally nerfed it), you only made the gap between rich players and poor players WIDER. Nice move...
azizul1975
i cant remember, is there an enchantment that remove enchantment from an attacker if he hit someone with that enchantment ? give the monsters those skills...... see how SF goes...
Turbobusa
^That's rending aura, but it only works on melee attacks iirc
Arkantos
[rending aura]
Only works on melee attacks.
Only works on melee attacks.
Vehemence
I think it is a good update by Anet. People just cannot stop complaining. Any update will be criticized. 
BlackSephir
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vehemence
I think it is a good update by Anet. People just cannot stop complaining. Any update will be criticized.
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Quote:
| Profession: W/Rt |
Omnidragon42
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
Meh, why do I bother.
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The Chaos Plains solo is still just as easy. Slightly slower and there's less Mindblades, but I still went down there and got 5 ecto in 25 minutes.
Arkantos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vehemence
I think it is a good update by Anet. People just cannot stop complaining. Any update will be criticized.
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In the end the problem ANet tried to fix isn't fixed, and there are a shit load of harmless builds ruined.
Stuart444
All I will say is, they said they would MONITOR the nerf and make aditional changes as neccessary, it may not be permanent so instead of QQing about it, why don't you go make a complaining/suggestion thread in sardelac/on reginas wiki and be nice about it (and don't say that they wont read or care, even if they don't reply, they read what is put there, it's just they have a life and ALOT of work to do >_< )
if ectos prices still gets affected back to what it was earlier before the nerf, then perhaps things will change again, they will balance THIER Game the way THEY want, and monitor things as needed so stop QQing so much saying that they dont care or saying they are stupid because it's getting ****ing old, if you don't like the game or if you don't like the way Anet do things, then find another game to play, there is plenty of people who play each day who don't come onto forums like this so it's not like you will be missed if you leave the game
/end rant
edit:
then I don't know, complain about it? as I said above, if they notice it is still as easy as ever (and i mean by monitoring IN GAME and not on a forum) then they will likely change it again such as fix the chaos planes to before the nerf and instead nerf SF even more. It's not like this is permanent if it hasn't fixed what Anet attempted to fix.
they don't exactly KNOW what the outcomes will be until they have tried it on real people, Play testing can only do so much, which is why they put the updates out and sees if people still comes up with a way to do things easily (ie the SF chaos planes farming still being done easily)
if ectos prices still gets affected back to what it was earlier before the nerf, then perhaps things will change again, they will balance THIER Game the way THEY want, and monitor things as needed so stop QQing so much saying that they dont care or saying they are stupid because it's getting ****ing old, if you don't like the game or if you don't like the way Anet do things, then find another game to play, there is plenty of people who play each day who don't come onto forums like this so it's not like you will be missed if you leave the game
/end rant
edit:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
I don't mean to put down your opinion, but how is this a good update? The update was intended to nerf the shadow form/chaos plains farm. The problem is, the farm is just as easy, and every other shadow form farm (the ones that had little to no effect on anything) are all nerfed.
In the end the problem ANet tried to fix isn't fixed, and there are a shit load of harmless builds ruined. |
they don't exactly KNOW what the outcomes will be until they have tried it on real people, Play testing can only do so much, which is why they put the updates out and sees if people still comes up with a way to do things easily (ie the SF chaos planes farming still being done easily)
Ate of DK
For all those people who have trouble reading previous posts!
The PERMA SHADOW FORM ASSASSIN can still farm the Chaos Planes!
- I'm just posting this, I'm not pro or against SF. Main thing a game should do is having fun.
How do they do it?
- You use other skills that cause burning!
- It takes a bit longer to complete.
- You avoid the new enemies.
People allready posted more options and there is also a video on youtube.
Go to youtube and search for this: "Post-Nerf farming!!! A/E Chaos Plains"
I've just been down there myself, see this screenshot:
So what happened?
Instead of celebrating here that ecto's will go up, you should check the ingame traders!
- Last night it looked like favor was ending.
- The Dev. update was before the actual update.
This caused people to quickly buy ecto's because they can only rise when both come to an end. But what happened?
- Anet added 30.000min of favor.
- Anet nerfed Shadow Form farming in general but didn't make it imposible to farm the Chaos Planes. That was never their intention cause they mentioned that people require more skill to there farm now. (Having skill means: Just walk past the new enemy and don't bother about him)
So what happened to the ecto price then?
As a result, ecto's went from 3,5K last night up to 5,5K after the update because everyone bought like crazy. Everyone got faith in the ecto's.
- People sell the ecto's they bought for 3,5K last night and make a small profit.
- The trader gets his ecto's back, thus lowers the price.
- It's still easy to farm ~4 ecto's in 30min with an A/E.
Looking at the trader now tells you that ecto's went down to 4,5K again.
For those who are at work, this screenshot was taken 2 minutes ago:
The PERMA SHADOW FORM ASSASSIN can still farm the Chaos Planes!
- I'm just posting this, I'm not pro or against SF. Main thing a game should do is having fun.
How do they do it?
- You use other skills that cause burning!
- It takes a bit longer to complete.
- You avoid the new enemies.
People allready posted more options and there is also a video on youtube.
Go to youtube and search for this: "Post-Nerf farming!!! A/E Chaos Plains"
I've just been down there myself, see this screenshot:
So what happened?
Instead of celebrating here that ecto's will go up, you should check the ingame traders!
- Last night it looked like favor was ending.
- The Dev. update was before the actual update.
This caused people to quickly buy ecto's because they can only rise when both come to an end. But what happened?
- Anet added 30.000min of favor.
- Anet nerfed Shadow Form farming in general but didn't make it imposible to farm the Chaos Planes. That was never their intention cause they mentioned that people require more skill to there farm now. (Having skill means: Just walk past the new enemy and don't bother about him)
So what happened to the ecto price then?
As a result, ecto's went from 3,5K last night up to 5,5K after the update because everyone bought like crazy. Everyone got faith in the ecto's.
- People sell the ecto's they bought for 3,5K last night and make a small profit.
- The trader gets his ecto's back, thus lowers the price.
- It's still easy to farm ~4 ecto's in 30min with an A/E.
Looking at the trader now tells you that ecto's went down to 4,5K again.
For those who are at work, this screenshot was taken 2 minutes ago:
RiKio
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES.
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
I´ve saved 42 ectos for this day...the day when SF got nerfed......42 ectos...muahhahaha I hope their price rises like the sun on the morning
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
I´ve saved 42 ectos for this day...the day when SF got nerfed......42 ectos...muahhahaha I hope their price rises like the sun on the morning
Ate of DK
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RiKio
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES.
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I´ve saved 42 ectos for this day...the day when SF got nerfed......42 ectos...muahhahaha I hope their price rises like the sun on the morning |
They are going down, not up!
RiKio
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Originally Posted by Ate of DK
/sigh, did you read one post above you?
They are going down, not up! |
The farming build you´ve posted is being analyzed in PvXWiki. In a few minutes, everyone will be farming ectos again
Goddbye to my plan to get rich. /sigh.
Mykaal Avalon
I made most my cash from a/e sliver armour. Shadow of haste build pre buff and perma sin after buff. Mostly I farmed runes and bosses and made decent cash from it, nothing flash but decent. Farmed enough ecto for obby armour then eased up on the plains run.
Now with the SF nerf the regular farming I once did isnt really viable because of the extra time it now takes. Also some enemy are now impossible as they regen quicker than the damage.
So to make my money now I guess my only option is to farm for ectos on the plains. Kinda ironic aint it.
Now with the SF nerf the regular farming I once did isnt really viable because of the extra time it now takes. Also some enemy are now impossible as they regen quicker than the damage.
So to make my money now I guess my only option is to farm for ectos on the plains. Kinda ironic aint it.
ProgTes
Hahahahaha. This update is pure awesome.
Lady Raenef
Kurenai Fire Sensei
This update is an HUGE fail.
It damages only solo ele farming and SpeedUwClears.
The perma can still farm easily just a bit slower. Ectos price will drop again. Nice Job Anet u fail again!
It damages only solo ele farming and SpeedUwClears.
The perma can still farm easily just a bit slower. Ectos price will drop again. Nice Job Anet u fail again!
pumpkin pie
I am loving the spirit of PermaSF farmers whoever they are.
as soon as shadow form is nerf a new build is up, way to go! now don't tell me arena net is going to nerf that as well. lol
*go sit on the fence*
as soon as shadow form is nerf a new build is up, way to go! now don't tell me arena net is going to nerf that as well. lol
*go sit on the fence*
Esan
Anet should drop their silly economy talk, which no one is buying, and simply admit that their buff to SF was a screwup and they are trying to bring the skill in line with other elite skills.
Davros Uitar
LOL - some complaining that Anet nerfed too much then some cheering that it still works and others complaining that they dind't nerf enough.
The one fact that I glean is that Anet is prepared to do something to protect the value of the game currency which is (like it or not) the ecto. To me that is the important message. Some will QQ that they should have acted earlier, and some will QQ that they should have the same wealth as others, and others will just be upset that their exploit is closed. It really doesn't matter which side of that argument we are all on now, because Anet has made it clear that they will move to protect our de-facto currency if they feel it is being damaged. Game over on this argument from where I sit. The rich (whoever they are) can expect their ecto value to be pressured occasionally but basically protected. The communist viewpoint that everything should be easy to create equality is clearly not the winning philosophy. I think on tye whole I am more glad than sad about that.
Now we can let Anet sit back, evaluate, and decide if they did too much or not enough. Clearly if the flood in ecto continues unabated we can expect more restructuring to follow. If the price shoots up to quickly the changes will be pared back.
The one fact that I glean is that Anet is prepared to do something to protect the value of the game currency which is (like it or not) the ecto. To me that is the important message. Some will QQ that they should have acted earlier, and some will QQ that they should have the same wealth as others, and others will just be upset that their exploit is closed. It really doesn't matter which side of that argument we are all on now, because Anet has made it clear that they will move to protect our de-facto currency if they feel it is being damaged. Game over on this argument from where I sit. The rich (whoever they are) can expect their ecto value to be pressured occasionally but basically protected. The communist viewpoint that everything should be easy to create equality is clearly not the winning philosophy. I think on tye whole I am more glad than sad about that.
Now we can let Anet sit back, evaluate, and decide if they did too much or not enough. Clearly if the flood in ecto continues unabated we can expect more restructuring to follow. If the price shoots up to quickly the changes will be pared back.
FF_Timmeh
when i compare shadowform to spellbreaker for example.
shadowform u never get hit.
spellbreaker u get hit, but not by spells or hexes
obsidianflesh u get hit, but not by spells or hexes
shadowform can last forever with help of celerety and skill of the same class (paradoxon)
spellbreaker can last forever with help of arc. echo --> you have to be mesmer
obsidianflesh can last forever with help of glyp only on primary class + YOUR RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING SLOW.
so shadowform is still way overpowered to compareable skills
shadowform u never get hit.
spellbreaker u get hit, but not by spells or hexes
obsidianflesh u get hit, but not by spells or hexes
shadowform can last forever with help of celerety and skill of the same class (paradoxon)
spellbreaker can last forever with help of arc. echo --> you have to be mesmer
obsidianflesh can last forever with help of glyp only on primary class + YOUR RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING SLOW.
so shadowform is still way overpowered to compareable skills
Abedeus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FF_Timmeh
shadowform can last forever with help of celerety and skill of the same class (paradoxon)
spellbreaker can last forever with help of arc. echo --> you have to be mesmer |
Spellbreaker can be maintained ONLY on Monk primary, with Quickening Zephyr on. Arcane Echo will not make it last forever, only a bit longer.
Onyx Blindbow
They got 1 part exactly right and that was the addition of things in UW to strip SF and hex breaker to slow down the farming a good deal
The UW nerf was quite a good one IMO, you have lost half of the riders you would normally farm because of the cursed riders which means you have by law of average lost half of the chance to farm ecto's
then after this good idea, came the ridiculous one....
50% less damage dealt whilst in SF = A-net screws every other SF farming build BUT not the perma-sin.
They REALLY didn't think about that one, I would guess that came as a throwaway comment/idea "they should deal less dmg" and it was snuck in at the end.
A-net's UW changes = FTW
50% dmg nerf, thus negating 90% of other profession SF farmers = FTL
(Back to chaos plains again now xD)
The UW nerf was quite a good one IMO, you have lost half of the riders you would normally farm because of the cursed riders which means you have by law of average lost half of the chance to farm ecto's
then after this good idea, came the ridiculous one....
50% less damage dealt whilst in SF = A-net screws every other SF farming build BUT not the perma-sin.
They REALLY didn't think about that one, I would guess that came as a throwaway comment/idea "they should deal less dmg" and it was snuck in at the end.
A-net's UW changes = FTW
50% dmg nerf, thus negating 90% of other profession SF farmers = FTL
(Back to chaos plains again now xD)
Kurenai Fire Sensei
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FF_Timmeh
[cut]
so shadowform is still way overpowered to compareable skills |
But pay attention in a few mins a random assa farmer will come and he will say stop QQing GTFO etc etc.. I hate assas before SF buff and I hate them more NOW!
Avarre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mike_version2
The use of Hex Breaker by Mindblade Specters should require more skillful play by characters who are using any farming build known to man in conjunction with hexes. Because Shadow Form does not protect against Signet of Disenchantment, these characters will also want to avoid confrontations with Mindflay Specters. The net effect of these changes should be to decrease the overall killing speed for Shadow Form characters in the Underworld.
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Oh well, we had our fun.Yes, you can have perma-SB with arcane echo on a Mo/Me, Abadeus.
Is it a good change? Maybe. It doesn't change the fact SF beats all the other skills in terms of bar compression or raw power, and it hurts other builds.
Abedeus
Hmm. Funny thing is... As soon as I saw this 50% less dmg, I thought about my mesmer that kills with degen. And... WHAT THE HELL? A PLAYER KNOWS THAT THIS WON'T BE A SUFFICIENT NERF?! And skill balancers didn't saw that coming? God...
Averra - Show the build plx?
Cast Arcane Echo, Spell Breaker. Even if it lasted 20 seconds and you recast Spell Breaker, you would have 5 seconds of downtime...
Averra - Show the build plx?
Cast Arcane Echo, Spell Breaker. Even if it lasted 20 seconds and you recast Spell Breaker, you would have 5 seconds of downtime...
Vehemence
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
Cept that perma sf uw is still possible (at least I heard so) so what AN's done is wasted their time.
Meh, why do I bother. |
Avarre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
Averra - Show the build plx?
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Leslie
I'm finding it quite disappointing that the very first non-prophecies skill added to any mob in the underworld or fissure is signet of disenchantment from factions just to nerf farming. If they're going to start adding other campaign's skills to UW / FOW, why can't they do it to make it more challenging / interesting than just to nerf something?
Aera Lure
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Davros Uitar
LOL - some complaining that Anet nerfed too much then some cheering that it still works and others complaining that they dind't nerf enough.
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I'm not sure Anet knows what they want either, if they know what effects on the game their buffs and nerfs actually have, or if they're aware of what the effects are through monitoring or just randomly one day find a thread on a forum that brings it to their attention.
Damian979
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kurenai Fire Sensei
QTF
But pay attention in a few mins a random assa farmer will come and he will say stop QQing GTFO etc etc.. I hate assas before SF buff and I hate them more NOW! |
Lil Mystique
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Leslie
I'm finding it quite disappointing that the very first non-prophecies skill added to any mob in the underworld or fissure is signet of disenchantment from factions just to nerf farming. If they're going to start adding other campaign's skills to UW / FOW, why can't they do it to make it more challenging / interesting than just to nerf something?
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Leslie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aera Lure
I'm not sure Anet knows what they want either, if they know what effects on the game their buffs and nerfs actually have, or if they're aware of what the effects are through monitoring or just randomly one day find a thread on a forum that brings it to their attention.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lil Mystique
Agreed. If they're going to introduce non-proph skills, then they need to add drops from other campaigns, too.
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jbwarrior
Good Job ANET... maybe it was even easier to reduce the SF, to the same as for PvP... made it a lot easier
And maybe because of the faction skill, they can put in more area's into UW, like a Para, Sin, Derv and Rit Area
And maybe because of the faction skill, they can put in more area's into UW, like a Para, Sin, Derv and Rit Area
Tom Swift
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aera Lure
I'm not sure Anet knows what they want either, if they know what effects on the game their buffs and nerfs actually have, or if they're aware of what the effects are through monitoring or just randomly one day find a thread on a forum that brings it to their attention. |
And as to the weapons from other campaigns - if they are going to use skills from other campaigns then, yes, the should include the weapons also - inscribable.