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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
So if it was possible then to go with balanced group and "explore" now nothing will change. Gotcha.
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[Dev Update] Shadow Form Balance Changes - 2 July 2008
Age
Coverticus
My 2 pennethworth..
It was an nerf that was yes, most certainly needed but, as it appears to me, it's a nerf Areanet haven't quite thought through as to it's impact.
On the plus side, no more speed UW or solo UW farms. Yup, I was on the farm bandwagon and got what I could. But now it's back to to normal. But then again, no it isn't. UW has become a touch harder for balanced teams (since the update kills the Terra's off too). Ok so some "outside of the box" thinking is going to be needed here for a truely balanced team (which is good for the thinkers in the game - gives me something new to get my teeth into yay
) but this is now going to increase the popularity (again) of the Ursan/HB teams. Joy. Would have though Areanet might have considered this when thinking about the game update.
On the down side, yes, the Green/Poof Crew farmers are less potent, possibly unusable. Don't know yet, too early to tell.
Personally, its an update that the game has needed sooner than it got. Though the nerf stick may have been wielded a touch harsher than it should of.
It was an nerf that was yes, most certainly needed but, as it appears to me, it's a nerf Areanet haven't quite thought through as to it's impact.
On the plus side, no more speed UW or solo UW farms. Yup, I was on the farm bandwagon and got what I could. But now it's back to to normal. But then again, no it isn't. UW has become a touch harder for balanced teams (since the update kills the Terra's off too). Ok so some "outside of the box" thinking is going to be needed here for a truely balanced team (which is good for the thinkers in the game - gives me something new to get my teeth into yay
) but this is now going to increase the popularity (again) of the Ursan/HB teams. Joy. Would have though Areanet might have considered this when thinking about the game update.On the down side, yes, the Green/Poof Crew farmers are less potent, possibly unusable. Don't know yet, too early to tell.
Personally, its an update that the game has needed sooner than it got. Though the nerf stick may have been wielded a touch harsher than it should of.
Golgotha
I'm having a hard time deciding what stock rose more with this update, ectos or Ursan. Oh, the irony.
Atra Culpa
I'm sure that with the rise in price of ecto, we will see a proportionate rise in "LFG R10 URSAN" spam in ToA. :P
The SF buff was nice for a while. And while i did make my sin to farm ecto, I'm keeping it because I had fun playing it without SF too win win for me.
I couldn't give a rats arse about the easy mode and e-peen QQers. Good update imho.
The SF buff was nice for a while. And while i did make my sin to farm ecto, I'm keeping it because I had fun playing it without SF too
win win for me. I couldn't give a rats arse about the easy mode and e-peen QQers. Good update imho.
Scarlett Romanov
I'm surprised they actually nerfed Shadow Form. Now for them to take care of all the other imbalanced pve skills (SY & UB next plz)
defect
*gets out the old 600/smite armor*
ReZDoGG
I thought the economy was good, because people actually had money to buy expensive items. So what! if the prices on high-end items dropped alil bit, atleast we were able to sell them in a fairly quick time compared to before big SF change. The fact that people had a way to make good money was something I thought was great. I was able to sell stuff alot easier than before because there were more people that actually had money to spend on goods. Now it is going to be alot harder to sell items, and eventually we will make less money. This change will not make the economy better, or make the game more exciting, but only the opposite... some people just don't get it. People all crying around about ecto prices losing their value, so what? Ecto prices dropped plenty of times before, but always ended up raising back up. If we would of just gave it some time, prices would have went up to normal value... but nope, people had to cry about it. If you didn't know, people would eventually get bored of farming ectos over and over and over, and then move on to something else. Eventually less people will be farming ectos, and the prices of ectos would go up over time. Because it was easier to farm ectos, of course value will go down, it all balances out one way or another.
I mean, I ain't poor, I had 250+ ectos before any SF changes (with more than enough gold, and items ot sell), and their value dropping didn't bother me much... mainly cause I don't sell them, or buy high end weapons. Now all farming has been affected by this unnecessary skill change for SF... all because people complained about Mindblade farming.
For all you damn cry-baby lifeless nerds who complain about every goddamn game out there, GET A F*CKING LIFE! People act like if the value of ectos goes down, their life will go shit. I mean, a game is supposed to be fun... why try to make a game less fun all the damn time? Now the game is just gonna get boring alot quicker with the 1-2 gap until gw2 is released. Now, alot of people are going to fall out of the game sooner than previously expected. Eventually guildwars will be nothin but ghost towns.
I mean, I ain't poor, I had 250+ ectos before any SF changes (with more than enough gold, and items ot sell), and their value dropping didn't bother me much... mainly cause I don't sell them, or buy high end weapons. Now all farming has been affected by this unnecessary skill change for SF... all because people complained about Mindblade farming.
For all you damn cry-baby lifeless nerds who complain about every goddamn game out there, GET A F*CKING LIFE! People act like if the value of ectos goes down, their life will go shit. I mean, a game is supposed to be fun... why try to make a game less fun all the damn time? Now the game is just gonna get boring alot quicker with the 1-2 gap until gw2 is released. Now, alot of people are going to fall out of the game sooner than previously expected. Eventually guildwars will be nothin but ghost towns.
DreamWind
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
Believe it or not there was a thread as recent as today saying ecto prices will not go up with the SF nerf clicky.
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Age
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Originally Posted by Scarlett Romanov
I'm surprised they actually nerfed Shadow Form. Now for them to take care of all the other imbalanced pve skills (SY & UB next plz)
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byteme!
So the whiners got what they asked for. I hope "some of you" didn't liquidate all your ectos because well.....you got what you asked for.
I see a lot of economist wannabe's. People who think they know how the GW economy works or should work. YAWN! Some of you thought ectos were gonna hit rock bottom. Lucky for me some of you had to think that way. During this whole SF fiasco I liquidated a ton of stuff. My Armbraces, some of my rarest items, and all my gold in storage were all exchanged for stacks and stacks of ectos. I paid 3-3.5k per ecto. Right now I am sitting pretty on a huge chunk of cash.
I hate the nerf because now farming UW is more of a chore then ever but at the same time I love the friggin nerf because my net worth has gone up along with ecto prices. If they nerf SF my ectos go up in value = I win. If they don't nerf SF I can continue to farm UW = I win. It's good to plan ahead.
Some sucker (i mean person) in that thread probably sold a stack of ecto to me for 3keach....ROFL
I was never really super rich or anything but when Anet buffed SF only to NERF it again, it was an opportunity to farm the economy instead of UW. If the rich were able to take advantage of all of this they'd be super rich for sure. So I end this post with a question. The rich just got richer. The poor just got poorer and for the people who dumped all their ectos, well they got hit with a baseball bat. IS THE ECONOMY GOOD NOW?! ARE YOU FRIGGIN HAPPY?!
I see a lot of economist wannabe's. People who think they know how the GW economy works or should work. YAWN! Some of you thought ectos were gonna hit rock bottom. Lucky for me some of you had to think that way. During this whole SF fiasco I liquidated a ton of stuff. My Armbraces, some of my rarest items, and all my gold in storage were all exchanged for stacks and stacks of ectos. I paid 3-3.5k per ecto. Right now I am sitting pretty on a huge chunk of cash.
I hate the nerf because now farming UW is more of a chore then ever but at the same time I love the friggin nerf because my net worth has gone up along with ecto prices. If they nerf SF my ectos go up in value = I win. If they don't nerf SF I can continue to farm UW = I win. It's good to plan ahead.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by romeus petrus
Believe it or not there was a thread as recent as today saying ecto prices will not go up with the SF nerf clicky.
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I was never really super rich or anything but when Anet buffed SF only to NERF it again, it was an opportunity to farm the economy instead of UW. If the rich were able to take advantage of all of this they'd be super rich for sure. So I end this post with a question. The rich just got richer. The poor just got poorer and for the people who dumped all their ectos, well they got hit with a baseball bat. IS THE ECONOMY GOOD NOW?! ARE YOU FRIGGIN HAPPY?!
Atra Culpa
I for one did not find SF farming fun. Sure the numbers on a raptor run actually made me lol the first couple of times.. but that wore off pretty quick and it became the mindless boring chore farming always was.
Nor do I find an unbalanced game as much fun as a balanced one where you actually have to put effort in for your gain..
Like many people here have already said, SF isn't completely dead. Use your brains and look at the skills at your disposal.
People will always find new ways to make money. That's just what they do.
Nor do I find an unbalanced game as much fun as a balanced one where you actually have to put effort in for your gain..
Like many people here have already said, SF isn't completely dead. Use your brains and look at the skills at your disposal.
People will always find new ways to make money. That's just what they do.
dilan155
now those who horded ectos got even richer, rofl. meh economy
ReZDoGG
Why don't we just all "whine" it back. lol. Shadow Form change that is.
Fleeting
SF solo is dead or harder. Whatever... the people who adapt will adapt and the people who QQ will QQ, then copy builds from people who adapt.
byteme!
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Originally Posted by ReZDoGG
Why don't we just all "whine" it back. lol. Shadow Form change that is.
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Vazze
nice, now ursan, soul reaping, ether renewal, save yourself ...
ReZDoGG
What people don't get about such a drastic change in ecto prices... is... that there will now be more people selling than buying, which makes them somewhat worthless and harder to get rid of. So now, people won't bother buying them because the prices jumped up so high, and would rather try to sell them for profit instead, only to find out that they can't seem to sell them. I mean, people can be so stupid on crying about the value of ectos, when their prices would have went up in a month or two when people got bored and farmed other things, or stopped playing all together because of nothing new to do in the game. Let the game go with its own flow, and eventually everything will even out again. It always does.
Clash clash! can't sell ectos to sellers, thanks to you damn whiners... Value of ectos actually went down if you can't sell them... No? don't get it?
Clash clash! can't sell ectos to sellers, thanks to you damn whiners... Value of ectos actually went down if you can't sell them... No? don't get it?
hurdlebeast
Honestly, i gave up a long time ago trying to be rich. My characters look good, i've beat all the games, and i like to do random stuff.
Now to work on my heroes.....
Now to work on my heroes.....
Lest121
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Originally Posted by ReZDoGG
What people don't get about such a drastic change in ecto prices... is... that there will now be more people selling than buying, which makes them somewhat worthless and harder to get rid of. So now, people won't bother buying them because the prices jumped up so high, and would rather try to sell them to profit, only to find out they can't seem to sell them. I mean, people can be so stupid on crying about the value of ectos, when their prices would have went up in a month or two when people got bored and farmed other things, or stopped playing all together because of nothing new to do in the game.
Clash clash! can't sell ectos to sellers, thanks to you damn whiners. |
Dragonire
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Originally Posted by Atra Culpa
People will always find new ways to make money. That's just what they do.
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The SF buff has been in effect for so long that most people who actually needed (...?) the money from farming ectos should have gotten enough already. I do not believe that it has brought wealth "to the masses", because casual players, in general, would either: not know of the farm, not care because they don't have many goals that would require such a massive influx of cash, or not farm it because it really is just grinding. They may have goals to get, say, obsidian armor, but likely not in record time. It has only benefited those who did farm it, as their cash stock rose faster than the prices of items being sold. Everyone else would have had to face inflation, sooner or later. It's not like the value of higher-end items would drop, since they would be scaled according to the price of ectos. >.>
I suppose a bit of the fun has been taken away from using SF though, I'll admit. The 50% damage penalty hurts quite a bit, but meh. We can adapt, as we always do. o.O;
As a side note: wasn't it possible to make more money pre-lootscaling than ecto farming the last few weeks? I guess the purchasing power is vastly different though.
Scythe O F Glory
This was a pathetic exscuse of a nerf. So, 50% less dmg woohoo. Its still the same as many other elite skills COMBINED. If your gonna nerf shadow form, make it something like this.
For (whatever) seconds, all hostile spells against you fail and you take 50% less damage. I like that better. You can still farm the Tombs, it just takes longer. Horrible job of nerfing SF, Anet. I think it should be nerfed like avatar of grenth was nerfed.
Edit: so they say that they dont want to nerf Shadow Form Farming as a whole, but what about all the other builds taht were nerfed? What about Protective Bond? Did that really make it "too easy" to farm the Underworld? Shadow form is the ONLY skill where you cant be hit with attacks or spells. Thats like Mist Form and Obsidian Flesh combined. Oh wait... you still cant attack anyone with Mist form. So scratch that. The SF nerf is not gonna help the economy at all. the Chaos Planes nerf WILL help.
For (whatever) seconds, all hostile spells against you fail and you take 50% less damage. I like that better. You can still farm the Tombs, it just takes longer. Horrible job of nerfing SF, Anet. I think it should be nerfed like avatar of grenth was nerfed.
Edit: so they say that they dont want to nerf Shadow Form Farming as a whole, but what about all the other builds taht were nerfed? What about Protective Bond? Did that really make it "too easy" to farm the Underworld? Shadow form is the ONLY skill where you cant be hit with attacks or spells. Thats like Mist Form and Obsidian Flesh combined. Oh wait... you still cant attack anyone with Mist form. So scratch that. The SF nerf is not gonna help the economy at all. the Chaos Planes nerf WILL help.
byteme!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ReZDoGG
What people don't get about such a drastic change in ecto prices... is... that there will now be more people selling than buying, which makes them somewhat worthless and harder to get rid of. So now, people won't bother buying them because the prices jumped up so high, and would rather try to sell them for profit instead, only to find out that they can't seem to sell them. I mean, people can be so stupid on crying about the value of ectos, when their prices would have went up in a month or two when people got bored and farmed other things, or stopped playing all together because of nothing new to do in the game. Let the game go with its own flow, and eventually everything will even out again. It always does.
Clash clash! can't sell ectos to sellers, thanks to you damn whiners... Value of ectos actually went down if you can't sell them... No? don't get it? |
Golgotha
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Originally Posted by underverse_ninja
I don't care about Ectos............the 50% damage reduction was unnecessary.........they cried for a nerf and now there are happy.
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Eh, in the end, I blame a lack of any thought by Anet. Why buff a skill fully knowing what it'd entail only to nerf it less than six weeks later? It's pure comedy.
Tom Swift
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Originally Posted by Golgotha
I agree to a point. The main complaint was the ease at which SF could farm ectos specifically. No one seemed to really care about any other farming spot. The additional monsters and skills added to the Chaos Plains would seem enough to nerf the skill, but the added -50% damage negates its effectiveness in a lot of areas as well. Let's be honest, if it weren't for the ability to solo UW the SF buff would've been under the radar and no one would've cared.
Eh, in the end, I blame a lack of any thought by Anet. Why buff a skill fully knowing what it'd entail only to nerf it less than six weeks later? It's pure comedy. |
Prezze
Hmmmm for the economy???
The only thing that became cheaper was the obsidian armor, but with the lower ecto, demand became higher for obsidian chards. Since more people wanted an obsidian armor. So chards became more expensive. So in all the difference wouldn't have been that big since the pre sf-age. But apperently it was a bad thing that more people could afford obsidian armor.
I've heared so many times it screws up the economy. How then? Like I said above obsidian armor became cheaper?
If I sold a weapon during the sf-age for 100k and 50 ecto, it now will still sell for around the same value. So less ecto involved in the trade.
In the end the only thing this does is make the rich get richer and the poor remain poor.
If I now have 200 ecto they are since the update between 800k-1000k worth, before the update they were 600-700k worth.
In the end I don't care much since i'll find a new way to make easy money. But the non-farmer, non-powertrader get's punished the most.
The solution should have been:
- remove the money cap (no more 100k as highest cash amount in a trade; more then 999k in storage)
- Or decrease the droprate of the chaos planes run
Note
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What I don't get is that the dev's care about the economy but don't care about creating builds anymore. And doesn't an uw hm ursan run create alot of ecto drops + the eternalblade (or is this not high end anymore)... To go ursan you don't really need a brain...
THis game really is becoming ursanwars instead of guildwars
The only thing that became cheaper was the obsidian armor, but with the lower ecto, demand became higher for obsidian chards. Since more people wanted an obsidian armor. So chards became more expensive. So in all the difference wouldn't have been that big since the pre sf-age. But apperently it was a bad thing that more people could afford obsidian armor.
I've heared so many times it screws up the economy. How then? Like I said above obsidian armor became cheaper?
If I sold a weapon during the sf-age for 100k and 50 ecto, it now will still sell for around the same value. So less ecto involved in the trade.
In the end the only thing this does is make the rich get richer and the poor remain poor.
If I now have 200 ecto they are since the update between 800k-1000k worth, before the update they were 600-700k worth.
In the end I don't care much since i'll find a new way to make easy money. But the non-farmer, non-powertrader get's punished the most.
The solution should have been:
- remove the money cap (no more 100k as highest cash amount in a trade; more then 999k in storage)
- Or decrease the droprate of the chaos planes run
Note
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What I don't get is that the dev's care about the economy but don't care about creating builds anymore. And doesn't an uw hm ursan run create alot of ecto drops + the eternalblade (or is this not high end anymore)... To go ursan you don't really need a brain...
THis game really is becoming ursanwars instead of guildwars
D8tura
Well about the only thing SF is good for now is running. It wasn't enough to introduce monsters that get through SF and strip it in the chaos plains, let make it worthless for anything but running now......better start learning to runs everyone wants now
frikkus
I've never farmed with a sin, or used Ursan other than in the required missioning.
Guess I should try out Ursan 'fore it gets hit with the nerfystick.
Guess I should try out Ursan 'fore it gets hit with the nerfystick.
cellardweller
Darn it. I was planning to sink the money made farming the dragon festival into ectos in anticipation of the nerf.
*longingly watches the ship sail into the distance*
*longingly watches the ship sail into the distance*
The Red Messenger
Good update! yes, i farmed UW for the first time using this and got sick of ectos by the time it was nerfed. and im glad they did it. was just a bit later than i had expected...
next order of buisness is to see how well my ele can farm raptors with the new shadowform.
next order of buisness is to see how well my ele can farm raptors with the new shadowform.
Dr Strangelove
Damn PvE players nerfing my PvP builds!!!!
D8tura
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Originally Posted by The Red Messenger
next order of buisness is to see how well my ele can farm raptors with the new shadowform.
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Lest121
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Originally Posted by D8tura
tried it - worthless piece of **** to do dmg now - even with intensity and standard of honor
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Yobs
As I see it one side in "the 4 horsemen" can still be tanked by an ele or sin, just cannot kill much in the plains to prepare. So faster UW clear is still on, just not silly fast. Will be harder with a balanced non-ursan group though if you used mesmers or necro's to hurt things with hexes. Good update, lets face it UW with Ursan still fails regularly as many Ursan have no clue.
Empathy whats that?...must attack with zealous weapon to keep energy up...sigh.
gg for shadow form farming...with some modifications I am sure I could still run the OBF ele in pools and smites. Though mass farming the plains is out
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Yobs
Empathy whats that?...must attack with zealous weapon to keep energy up...sigh.
gg for shadow form farming...with some modifications I am sure I could still run the OBF ele in pools and smites. Though mass farming the plains is out
.Yobs
fenix
Aahhahahahahaah
So many people are mad about a predictable change. I for one am happy, I just made QUITE a profit from ecto rising
So many people are mad about a predictable change. I for one am happy, I just made QUITE a profit from ecto rising
Golgotha
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Originally Posted by fenix
Aahhahahahahaah
So many people are mad about a predictable change. I for one am happy, I just made QUITE a profit from ecto rising |
Anyway, its a good nerf to UW. I just don't see the need to nerf the skill further given that they planned to buff the monsters. I don't see the logic.
samifly
Good Update although the 50% may be a little too much damage reduction. they could have just reverted it to the old shadow form.
A Poet Named Virgil
personally, I don't think the SF nerf was quite enough. Within hours, there is already a build circulating that makes it possible to farm the Chaos Planes.
as for all those people that think anet fixed the ecto price manually, you should just pay attention to the people who noted the number of people viewing this thread.
with a huge panic, people did, as one poster said: buy, buy, buy! It's really not astounding, if you consider how many people would sit there clicking "price" and "buy" at the trader. Heck, I was even going to do it myself once I read the update but found the price at 5.5k already. this is not absurd or astounding in any way.
as for all the QQing about Ursan, it gets people playing *together* which is what Guild Wars is all about. Cooperative play = cooperative fun. Solo farming ectos to oblivion was 1) devaluating things beyond a reasonable threshold, and 2) fueling non-cooperative play. Ursan is reasonable, and cooperative. So I don't believe it will or should be nerfed.
In my humble opinion, I believe that the changes to SF are not drastic enough. The damage reduction seems moot, since it is easily bypassed, and the changes to the UW seem unnecessary. One poster suggested eliminating ecto drops from Spectres; I think this is an excellent solution to the problem. Eliminate this farm altogether and the game will be in a better state. Ursan is a blessing (no pun intended) compared to the damage that Shadow Form caused to the economy and tradable value of everything above 100k.
just my 2 cents
as for all those people that think anet fixed the ecto price manually, you should just pay attention to the people who noted the number of people viewing this thread.
with a huge panic, people did, as one poster said: buy, buy, buy! It's really not astounding, if you consider how many people would sit there clicking "price" and "buy" at the trader. Heck, I was even going to do it myself once I read the update but found the price at 5.5k already. this is not absurd or astounding in any way.
as for all the QQing about Ursan, it gets people playing *together* which is what Guild Wars is all about. Cooperative play = cooperative fun. Solo farming ectos to oblivion was 1) devaluating things beyond a reasonable threshold, and 2) fueling non-cooperative play. Ursan is reasonable, and cooperative. So I don't believe it will or should be nerfed.
In my humble opinion, I believe that the changes to SF are not drastic enough. The damage reduction seems moot, since it is easily bypassed, and the changes to the UW seem unnecessary. One poster suggested eliminating ecto drops from Spectres; I think this is an excellent solution to the problem. Eliminate this farm altogether and the game will be in a better state. Ursan is a blessing (no pun intended) compared to the damage that Shadow Form caused to the economy and tradable value of everything above 100k.
just my 2 cents
dasmitchies
Once again Anet protects their precious game, Oh wait , I paid for it. I agree with Rezzdog. I was really hoping to make up for lost time on GW and fill my hall for GW2. This nerf was all about the oldskool snobs hating on newer players. Waaaaaaaaaaaa Ectos dropped. My armor isn't as leet. Same garbage from the same crowd. Lets have some real fun. Lets push for Anet to nerf protective spirit. Say, 50% health loss vs. 10%? Lets watch the 600 smite teams cry a little too. PVE economy should not be an issue to the developers. DEMAND should be the only pricing factor. After all, when ectos dropped shards went way up. Once again Anet failed to see the entire equation because of whiners.
Steps_Descending
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
My faith in ANet went from -9001 to 1. Keep up the good work ANet!
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So... Who feels like cleanign the dust off the ol' 55/SS team?
Regulus X
Little by little, each update gets worse and worse, thus forcing players to ragequit guild wars. I've noticed that is the pattern in the MMO world. Happened in Diablo 2 when I played it, it's happening here, and I can almost guarantee that, if the same team is kept around for GW2, it'll rinse/repeat itself there. History in general repeats itself and that's a known fact. Hate to say it, but there can never be balance.. It's just impossible!