[Dev Update] Shadow Form Balance Changes - 2 July 2008 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

explodemyheart

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Indiana

Gui1d War스 P01ic트 [Pr으]

Mo/

02 Jul 2008 at 22:59 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

I find it rather offensive if not insulting they manually change the ecto prices. It took 4 weeks to go from 5,5k to 3,7k, now with a blink of eyes they were back at 5,5.

The price jump actually makes perfect sense.

People realized that they made it harder for idiots to solo farm craploads of ecto in a short period of time, so they realized the price was going to go up. People wanted to stockpile ecto cheap while they still could, either for using for armor or for selling at a later date for more of a profit.

What is absurd is how you don't understand why this happened.

Vinraith

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

02 Jul 2008 at 23:01 - 162

Well that's a pleasant surprise.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

02 Jul 2008 at 23:01 - 163

Sf in now even more crappy before they made it longer.
Now it even halves damage from weapons. Roofles.

Panais

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2008

Binge And Purge [HET]

D/W

02 Jul 2008 at 23:01 - 164

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

The price jump actually makes perfect sense.

People realized that they made it harder for idiots to solo farm craploads of ecto in a short period of time, so they realized the price was going to go up. People wanted to stockpile ecto cheap while they still could, either for using for armor or for selling at a later date for more of a profit.

What is absurd is how you don't understand why this happened.

the speed that it happened though is unreal, obviously Anet fixed the prices, as they went back to exactly the same as they used to be

toastgodsupreme

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

United States

Me/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:03 - 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

The price jump actually makes perfect sense.

People realized that they made it harder for idiots to solo farm craploads of ecto in a short period of time, so they realized the price was going to go up. People wanted to stockpile ecto cheap while they still could, either for using for armor or for selling at a later date for more of a profit.

What is absurd is how you don't understand why this happened.

Exactly... people started buying from the trader, trader stocks lowered, prices went up as stock diminished.

I've known for a long time though that people in online games don't understand supply and demand. Economics is lost on them.

AOD_EaSyKiLL

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Angels of Death

Mo/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:03 - 166

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panais

the speed that it happened though is unreal, obviously Anet fixed the prices, as they went back to exactly the same as they used to be

No, a couple hundred, maybe even thousand, ecto moving through the trader in a short time period, in one direction only, did it.

As soon as I saw this post, I took the time to launch GW in the middle of work and bought all the ecto I could

Nadia Roark

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

Tomb Refugees [ToRe]

Mo/Me

02 Jul 2008 at 23:04 - 167

It's not unreal. 300 goddamn people are watching this thread alone right now, and have been for the better part of my session here. If even half of them or a third of them are sitting on piles of ecto--and even more that aren't lurking on these fora--it could easily make a big change in the market price this fast.

Ate of DK

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Netherlands

None but Fools [nuts]

02 Jul 2008 at 23:05 - 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panais

the speed that it happened though is unreal, obviously Anet fixed the prices, as they went back to exactly the same as they used to be

Offcourse you are all-seeing and know how many people were just buying ecto's like crazy which caused it to return to it's old level.

What you're saying is just a guess. Just like most other things here are guesses.

explodemyheart

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Indiana

Gui1d War스 P01ic트 [Pr으]

Mo/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:06 - 169

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panais

the speed that it happened though is unreal, obviously Anet fixed the prices, as they went back to exactly the same as they used to be

I have no reason to believe it's "unreal", as update notes were given before the update actually went live. People were anticipating what was going to happen. Everybody wanted to get ecto for cheap before they were no longer cheap, and everybody that had ecto was holding on to it, presumably until prices peak.

I first logged on after the update went live, ecto was back up to 4.9k. I managed to snag my last 25 ecto for armor only about 1 minute before it shot back up to 5.5k again.

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:07 - 170

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

The price jump actually makes perfect sense.

People realized that they made it harder for idiots to solo farm craploads of ecto in a short period of time, so they realized the price was going to go up. People wanted to stockpile ecto cheap while they still could, either for using for armor or for selling at a later date for more of a profit.

What is absurd is how you don't understand why this happened.

I was refreshing the site just to see how long would someone come up with this.
THE MATERIAL TRADER CAN NOT DETETC THE WILL OF THE PLAYERS!

Cutting a constant flow of ectos into the market WILL NOT make the economy go up. It will go up if they REDUCE the ammount of ectos in the market. And players did not sold all their ectos to the trader, there is no way all players would have bought many obsidian armors in 3 hours.
The only way to actually increase the price of it is REDUCING the ammount of ectos in the market. WICH could not have happened in 3 hours.

Edit:
*People trading with people will not reduce the price of ecots, therefore will not increase its price.
*People buying from trader does make sense but its as unreal as the situations mentioned before. In order to get cheap ectos, people would buy from people.

mistokibbles

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

N/A

02 Jul 2008 at 23:07 - 171

Wow..they were really smart with this update. They met the demands of both side of the SF argument. They made chaos plains farm a lot harder, making ecto prices go up AND they hardly touched shadow form. GJ!

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

02 Jul 2008 at 23:10 - 172

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathermoore Rep

The only real problem I have with this change/nerf is the fact that they do this in the name of the economy.

Not to mention it was practically godmode?

Phoenix Ex

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Mo/R

02 Jul 2008 at 23:10 - 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

I find it rather offensive if not insulting they manually change the ecto prices. It took 4 weeks to go from 5,5k to 3,7k, now with a blink of eyes they were back at 5,5.

Definitely agreed. But then people are getting used to this by now, every good farming build never last, so why bother?

AOD_EaSyKiLL

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Angels of Death

Mo/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:11 - 174

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

I was refreshing the site just to see how long would someone come up with this.
THE MATERIAL TRADER CAN NOT DETETC THE WILL OF THE PLAYERS!

Cutting a constant flow of ectos into the market WILL NOT make the economy go up. It will go up if they REDUCE the ammount of ectos in the market. And players did not sold all their ectos to the trader, there is no way all players would have bought many obsidian armors in 3 hours.
The only way to actually increase the price of it is REDUCING the ammount of ectos in the market. WICH could not have happened in 3 hours.

LOL, the price is based on what the trader sees.

Right after the announcement the trader saw a huge increase in the number of ectos bought from him, with probably 0 being sold to him, so he raises the price. How much movement and all that jazz is of course set by Anet, but the price jump was purely from people buying tons of ecto from the trader, not anything else.

w00t!

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sorrow's Furnace Hot Tub

RoS

Mo/Me

02 Jul 2008 at 23:14 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

The price jump actually makes perfect sense.

People realized that they made it harder for idiots to solo farm craploads of ecto in a short period of time, so they realized the price was going to go up. People wanted to stockpile ecto cheap while they still could, either for using for armor or for selling at a later date for more of a profit.

What is absurd is how you don't understand why this happened.

LoL you described my reaction perfectly. I, probably like most others on this board, read about the update, logged in to GW to see if I could buy a ton of ecto at 3.3 (lowest price I saw last night), and sighed when I found it at 4.9. Walked over a bit later and it was 5.5.

For people who think the market is broken, this is a perfect example of how it mimics the real world economy. ecto = oil = tulips. Prices all driven by hysteria.

explodemyheart

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Indiana

Gui1d War스 P01ic트 [Pr으]

Mo/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:18 - 176

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

I was refreshing the site just to see how long would someone come up with this.
THE MATERIAL TRADER CAN NOT DETETC THE WILL OF THE PLAYERS!

Cutting a constant flow of ectos into the market WILL NOT make the economy go up. It will go up if they REDUCE the ammount of ectos in the market. And players did not sold all their ectos to the trader, there is no way all players would have bought many obsidian armors in 3 hours.
The only way to actually increase the price of it is REDUCING the ammount of ectos in the market. WICH could not have happened in 3 hours.

Edit:
*People trading with people will not reduce the price of ecots, therefore will not increase its price.
*People buying from trader does make sense but its as unreal as the situations mentioned before. In order to get cheap ectos, people would buy from people.

The trader sells only what he has in stock. When the stock reduces, the price increases.

Being that anybody with even a fraction of a brain understood that ecto prices would increase after the nerf, those with ecto in their possession chose to hold off on selling to the merchant as they will be able to sell it for more later.

Being that anybody with even a fraction of a brain understood that ecto prices would increase after the nerf, those that wanted ecto either for armor or to make a profit on later, when prices peak, started buying out the stock.

Since the trader sells what he has in stock, few people are selling to him and lots are buying from him... the price skyrockets.

Not everything is a conspiracy theory. Especially when you know and apply basic economics to a system that uses... basic economics, supply and demand.

AOD_EaSyKiLL

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Angels of Death

Mo/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:20 - 177

What will be funny, Is that you can probably still get some good deals from people who won't pay attention to the updates and just login and and start spamming WTS in ToA

Skye Marin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

E/A

02 Jul 2008 at 23:20 - 178

Impact of the update:

-Price of ecto is now back at ~5k, swapping between 5.5k and 4.9k buy price at the trader right now.
-SF UW farm is harder and takes more time, but not impossible.
-Other UW fast-run team farming builds need to be adjusted because of the new mobs.
-Other SF farms aren't as effective, like the E/A Air of Superiority Sliver SF Raptor farm build has a higher chance of failing because kills aren't as quick. Other farming builds exist for most other SF farming locations.

Overall, a fair and effective nerf to SF to bring it to the levels of other farming builds in terms of speed compared to difficulty, and restore the value of ectos for those sitting on a few piles. The winners are those who farmed while they could, and those who stockpiled before the price went up. Those who sold off their stacks just lucked out.

As an aside, we now have an extra 30,000 minutes of favour.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

02 Jul 2008 at 23:22 - 179

In terms of stock market: Buy Buy Buy

Or perhaps the prices have gone up enough already.

romeus petrus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Urgoz Warren

Legion of Doom [LOD] Home of PWNZILLA http://PWNZILLA.guildlaunch.com

02 Jul 2008 at 23:22 - 180

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

Being that anybody with even a fraction of a brain understood that ecto prices would increase after the nerf..

Believe it or not there was a thread as recent as today saying ecto prices will not go up with the SF nerf clicky.

Icy The Mage

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Canada

E/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:23 - 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

Impact of the update:

-Price of ecto is now back at ~5k, swapping between 5.5k and 4.9k buy price at the trader right now.
-SF UW farm is harder and takes more time, but not impossible.
-Other UW fast-run team farming builds need to be adjusted because of the new mobs.
-Other SF farms aren't as effective, like the E/A Air of Superiority Sliver SF Raptor farm build has a higher chance of failing because kills aren't as quick. Other farming builds exist for most other SF farming locations.

Overall, a fair and effective nerf to SF to bring it to the levels of other farming builds in terms of speed compared to difficulty, and restore the value of ectos for those sitting on a few piles. The winners are those who farmed while they could, and those who stockpiled before the price went up. Those who sold off their stacks just lucked out.

As an aside, we now have an extra 30,000 minutes of favour.

Yes we do have the extra favour, I'm glad a-net finally came through on one of their promises (ahem, "never nerf raptor farming again, ahem)

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:25 - 182

I think it was inevitable.

Maybe ecto prices will increase drastically in the short term, but will drop again to it's former 5-6k. We'll see.

Some investors with money may buy ectos coming hours. Dragon festival is coming up too, where lots of players gamble away money.

Interesting times.

Joe Fierce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Disconnect the fascination

LF High End PvE Guild that's not filled with elitists.

R/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:28 - 183

Smart people, overdid it, held onto ectos, and will be selling in roughly 21 days when favor runs out, dumb people, sold as they farmed, gg, they needed this update, it's nice.

Qwertyfied

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Ireland

DVDF

E/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:43 - 184

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Fierce

21 days when favor runs out

Erm, methinks it will be a good few months.

Torabo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:55 - 185

This update doesn't really do much aside for slow down killing in the chaos planes, and you can ignore the new mobs. However, it has destroyed the effectiveness of pretty much any other SF farming build for areas with enemies that can heal at a decent pace.... so all those people who'd made a sin just for farming ectos, well, can still farm ectos, where as those of us, or at least me, who like to use SF farming builds for other things.... are having trouble killing mobs with monks in them now. I'd rather they nerfed the length of SF instead of this stupid 50% less dmg change. I'd rather be able to farm other things, than to only be able to farm in areas w/o monk (IE chaos planes). -_-

ReZDoGG

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

Indian Township, ME

Nativ War Party (NWP)

Rt/Mo

02 Jul 2008 at 23:55 - 186

Really bad move on the Shadow Form change. Thankx to all the damn whiners!!!! they shoulda jus changed Mindblades and left Shadowform alone. I think it is a pretty retarded change, and they should change it back. People were complaining about Mindblades, not every other kind of farming. so it pretty much **** up all my Sliver farming.

Dru Stratas

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

England.

Colloidal Gold [Purp] - Leader

E/

02 Jul 2008 at 23:56 - 187

I think it's good that the nerf took place, however it's a shame, because it was a fun run to do!
Shame I used the ectos for armor o.O

wakefield

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2006

03 Jul 2008 at 00:05 - 188

God I suck at timing

Just last night I get my sin to TOA and a new rune set

Nadia Roark

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

Tomb Refugees [ToRe]

Mo/Me

03 Jul 2008 at 00:07 - 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReZDoGG

Really bad move on the Shadow Form change. Thankx to all the damn whiners!!!! they shoulda jus changed Mindblades and left Shadowform alone. I think it is a pretty retarded change, and they should change it back. People were complaining about Mindblades, not every other kind of farming. so it pretty much f*cked up all my Sliver farming.

Thanks to the damn nerdy azz whiners.

Ugh. Enough with the scapegoating already--if ANet was caving to "whiners," we'd have seen an Ursan nerf months ago, and reporting people for saying "stfu noob" or swearing in all chat might actually result in disciplinary action.

The SF nerf had nothing to do with whiners and everything to do with the fact that it shouldn't have made it out of playtesting.

Wildi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

PvE is the Metagame

03 Jul 2008 at 00:10 - 190

Quote:

The primary goal of this update is to address the high efficiency of Shadow Form farming builds.
..

Underworld

* Added Hex Breaker to Mindblade Specters found in the Underworld.
* Several Banished Dream Riders Chaos Plains region of the Underworld have been replaced with Cursed Dream Riders.
* When Cursed Dream Riders are killed, they cause Mindflay Specters to spawn. Mindflay Specters have Signet of Disenchantment instead of Hex Breaker.

Impact of the update:

- uw is harder for the balanced groups, see above why
- more people go ursan

Chico

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2007

03 Jul 2008 at 00:12 - 191

Lol.. Anet changed the price back. Didn't want to deal with the QQing.
I'm not glad this was nerfed (and no, I don't even have a Sin). It simply made ectos more affordable to the masses but it wasn't going to drop much more than it had already dropped.

Dru Stratas

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

England.

Colloidal Gold [Purp] - Leader

E/

03 Jul 2008 at 00:13 - 192

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chico

Lol.. Anet changed the price back. Didn't want to deal with the QQing.

No, I believe it was down to the players, who, aftering hearing news of the update, bought as many ectos as possible; resulting in a player driven rise.

zeth006

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

N/A

03 Jul 2008 at 00:15 - 193

I guess I was one of the dumb people who sold ectos while farming....=-(

kratimas

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Order of the Setting Sun

R/

03 Jul 2008 at 00:15 - 194

Has anyone heard or killed enough of the new Mindflay Specters to know if they drop ectos?

Lest121

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

Army of Darkness

A/Mo

03 Jul 2008 at 00:16 - 195

Anet please remove the 50% reduction, or just put SF back at 21secs and Nerf Perma it takes double the time to kill Raptors now.

mrmango

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Southern California

Charter Vanguard [CV]

Me/Rt

03 Jul 2008 at 00:16 - 196

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

and dagger SF is still alive!

kool beans.

Not as much, 50% less damage. but swell still. good balancing, honestly.

R.Shayne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

03 Jul 2008 at 00:18 - 197

Raptor Farm: Slowed it down, did take me 1 minute, it now takes me 2 minutes, don’t see a problem. Switch dark escape [dark escape] back to intensity [intensity] to get some damage back. As for longer periods and scatter, just use a left hand wall (plenty of those in a cave). The change is more noticeable in the Fenrir cave since fewer enemies in that cave and vermin farms. Just a bit slower on some farms so not a problem. On the vermin and a few other the A/Me is faster now.

Some elite tome farms are completely gone now, just can’t generate enough damage to compensate for healing. The Naphue quarter farm is pretty much over too, Lights can out heal you even with the dragon boss dead.

I got enough ecto for my 3 set of armor so I am only waiting for the price of shards to go back down below 1k. As for the price of Ecto, went up fast but seems to be coming back down. When favor runs out it may cause the price of ecto to increase but doesn’t matter to me, never farmed ecto for gold.

The one thing I am concern about is the speedway groups. They used A/Me so the sin is not affected in the group, what about the terra on the plains, will this make him go away, my elementalist is my least played character because my wife's favorite character is her elementalist so I don't understand the terra tank. Want to make sure I still have people to sell consets too, what else am I going to do with 2000 skill points (been farming a long time on my monk).

I would like to see the damage reduction nerf reduced slightly but I have been at this long enough to know how to role with the punches. Any chance the damage reduction can be taken to something like 25% or even 35%?

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

03 Jul 2008 at 00:18 - 198

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

What, they can't explore it anymore? Adding Sig of Disenchantment suddenly makes the area oh-so-harder?
Look out, now when there's a counter to enchants in UW others will cry. WAAAHmbulane inbound.

There has been alway some form of enchanment removal rend enchantments ring any.

Quote:

Orignally Posted by Nadia Roark
People complain about a lot of things in this game--suggesting ANet did what they did as a response to "crying" or "whining" is myopic and absurd. The reasons for the nerf are explained in the update notes and they make perfect sense if you ask me. Monks thought the sky was falling when ANet took a baseball bat to the 55--and lo, we still figured out ways to make money.

How anyone can defend SF is beyond me. It's the most blatant God Mode On Button I've ever seen in any game--except the immortal iddqd. But come on, SF was at least an idspispod, which is damn close. Had no place in the game the way it was, IMO. How it even made it out of playtesting without someone scratching their head and saying "this is a little ridiculous..." is beyond me.

You tell them way to go and they can still solo where as 55 Monk can't or possibly any 55 build for that matter.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

03 Jul 2008 at 00:22 - 199

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

There has been alway some form of enchanment removal rend enchantments ring any.

So if it was possible then to go with balanced group and "explore" now nothing will change. Gotcha.

Chico

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2007

03 Jul 2008 at 00:23 - 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dru Stratas

No, I believe it was down to the players, who, aftering hearing news of the update, bought as many ectos as possible; resulting in a player driven rise.

If the trader changes the price that quickly from 3.7 to 5.5 then it is messed up. I think Anet was involved, but that's just me.