Mad H/H behavior after the update?

Update - Friday, August 8, 2008
Bug Fixes
....
* Fixed a bug with Hero combat range.



Starting a new thread since I saw it being discussed a bit in the update thread - but I feel it needs a bit more exposure (plus after seeing that GWO has a thread on it also - it seems that it's not an isolated incident).
(This of course all applies to their non-flagged behavior.)
I was doing HM Boreas today and my heroes and hench (although they were all on Guard and whatever the third option is (well those that can be)) - were acting insane (well more then usual at least).
They refuse to retreat and after getting rezzed they INSTANTLY engage in combat again.
They also aggro groups (yes PLURAL!!) that are far out of our aggro bubble.

Anyone else here with the same problems?

Yeah i had a few issues yesterday with henchies.

Devonna had an aggro range like spirit range, noone had aggro'd/engaged anything and she ran off to the mobs.

Happened multiple times so i stopped after it caused aggro on 4 mobs.

Cynics amongst us might speculate that the devs intentionally tweaked the h/h combat aggro range for the worse so that they become less appealing than using other players on your team...

Gehraz ran off after some gibbly plants. After I let him die he didn't do it again. Pratt.

I don't care how bad H/H AI gets, playing with other players will never be appealing. H/H AI will always be > (most) human players.

A lot of people I know and I have played with just behave like Devona and Gehraz, so no big deal...

I've had a few issues as well, Koss seemed to develop the taste to charge head on on mobs almost an aggro buble away, and the overall AI doesn't seem to follow my flag commands. I flag them to different areas but they always run back or into where the enemies are. F'ing annoying since that usually ends in a party wipe...

Indeed. The amount of times I've said "stop leeroying FFS" exceeds the "GJ Guys". At least, in general, flag the heroes and they'll stay. In general. The times they don't, I just LMAO at the stupidity - if you're as stupid as the PUGs I get you deserve to be laughed at.

Guildies > Guildies with heroes > Full H/H team > Solo > No play/other games > PUGs.

Except elite missions. I don't like micromanaging, so I doubt you'll see me in DoA with heroes. I'd rather take a PUG than micromanaging 2-3 heroes. (Thus why I don't do Hero Battles... yet I don't mind HFFFing)

Yeah, Devona seems to have the patience of a 10 year old. I was doing HoS and she just couldn't wait 5 seconds for a few of my skills to recharge before she ran head first into a patrol.

Livia, who when acting as a restoration healer, feels the need to stand in the center of the largest pile up she can find. Even flagged behind me, she won't stay put.

Maybe this is their way of telling me I should use some other hero's, or henchmen, but c'mon...this is no time for a vacation. We have evil to defeat!


Nothing worse than emo hero's.

Have noticed this more with Devonna than anyone else, she has turned into a kamikazee maniac since the update. Running in the opposite direction or almost completely off the compass just to get a piece of something.

I had the problem right after the update and told my guild. They asked me all questions like what settings I had them on etc, and I insisted I hadn't altered anything. I thought I was going crazy tbh, lol! It would seem that they have rectified it though, as their agro range for me anyway is back to normal...as much as I've tested it.

H/H will always be better than the rude players in PUGs.

When will ArenaNet realize that?

Make them PUG, through every campaign, Hard Mode, quests, all of it; maybe then.

I have also noticed that if they're flagged outside of your range aggro bubble, they have the tendency to run away. It's a problem that gets a bit annoying having to double flag.

Yesterday, while I was leveling my new character in Factions, I noticed [in the mission] that Taya got stuck, but if she didn't get stuck she would only heal Togo, but Togo rarely took damage...

Glad they fixed it though.

idk, I can turn off the team chat. I can't seem to find box for the "henchman go cause a party wipe" option.

Also noticed a weird glitch in Dunkoro now that I think of it. Doing Rragar's in HM he got "stuck" to where he kept trying to heal but would immediately get interupted. It was like he was standing in a never ending Maelstrom and wouldn't move.

i believe that's intended. if they're almost an aggro bubble away they're already aggroed.

I mean an agro bubble from the edge of he's aggro buble. Make it 1.5 aggro bubles away then, it's way too much.

I think he means almost an aggro bubble away outside of the 'normal' aggro bubble, i.e. almost 2x aggro bubble away.

And yes, I have experienced this with W, R and D heroes/henches since the update. I've played through all campaigns and eotn mostly by h/h'ing. Never had this problem. Since the update, I find myself only taking casters when I'm going h/h'ing now, very annoying to have to resort to that. Especially warriors tend to run off very easily when I'm just recouperating from the last battle. 2x aggro bubble sounds about right.

I had problems with henchman dying to rez (pun intended) a player not only in mid-mob, but also about 3/4 radar range away. Even flagging wouldn't stop them, unless I flagged them to the other side of the radar.
No problems with Hero's so far (apart from the fact I don't get why mob-ai WILL step out of AoE, and hero-ai doesn't).

I noticed it as well. Until today, I assumed it was hench behavior, and not hero. First time I realized it I was playing on my Warrior with Dunkoro, Livia, Acolyte Sousuke, Lina, Eve, Herta, and Zho. Dunk was heal set on Avoid Combat, Livia was MM set on Guard, and Sousuke was Fire set on Guard. Zho had a tendency to run off a bit farther an aggro a mod I intended to ignore. Figured it was just the hench.

Today, however, I was working with a guildie. He brought Koss and Melonni, which both decided to aggro a pair of groups right next to each other, and 1.5 aggro bubbles away. My guildie had not attacked or called a target in either of those groups, and neither had I.

Just seems that even on Guard, heroes are LOOKING for something to attack for no reason. Hench have always been on Attack mode it seems, but now they seem to be more aggressive.

I've mainly only noticed odd behavior with Devona. I was finishing up my canthan elite skill track, and I brought her along mainly for the speed buff. But in various areas, she would often run off to enemies near the edge of compass range and engage them. I think she's been posessed by the spirit of Rurik!

I haven't noticed much with other H/H. Tho, I guess there was once incident of Olias (as SS) charged from way behind into the middle of a bunch of mobs and died, but that was only after my whole party had engaged. But I've never seen that happen before

My jora is having a weird time when I do hfff for the kurzick run. I flag her to the shore as normal and she'll usually zig zag or do a run backwards before running towards the flag. None of my other heroes have any other trouble but it's just her.

Hi, i've been doing some 600 farming, when i die is very difficult to get the hero to cast the rez spell (rebirth), he sometimes starts casting and cancels right away! starts casting again and cancels!!! he does that untils he depleats all his energy! now, i though it was because he coul agro the baddies, but most of the times im clear to be resurrected.

Other issue like that is, when i command a hero to cast a spell on me (lets say Spellbreaker), if hero is outside my bubble agro he runs a bit to get near to me to start casting, then he runs back or he starts casting and cancels right away to run back!. This is very annoying, i cant micro my heros anymore, they act so weird since the last ai update (7th august).

other thing ive observed is when i die i cant make heros to remove their bonds, was not this fixed in the last update?

I've had problems with heroes ignoring flags to charge off and heal minions and npcs (eg: dying golems in Destructions Depths). Even when reflagged and team moved well out of aggro, they're still charging off to heal.

Flag command should over ride all, including being in the middle of a cast or charge.

Also, there should be less emphasis on healing minions from the non-MM H/H - it's a waste of energy needed elsewhere, and slows down regen.

I was doing Assault on the Stronghold HM on Saturday and Dunkoro got stuck in the heal/cancel loop for me as well. He kept running back and forth between me (dead) and running back to the group that was still fighting. I was barelt outside of range and he would run to me, start ressing, then break it off an run back to my H/H and start healing only to break that off and run back to me. Rinse and repeat.

AI is broke, fix it please Anerf.

yeah i ran into the noobish pug behavior by the heros and henchies. caught both koss and devona running to get agro on a mob well outside the agro circle( beyond what i could hit with a long or flat bow). then at the same time when i tried to call a target they continued to attack the target they picked til i set them to avoid to get them to break off. once they broke off i set koss back to attack and he then picked up the target i had called. i havent had a party wipe due to this issue yet but it made me a tad more carefull as i was closing in on the mob i wanted to kill. also ran into the dunkuro stuck in the trying to cast a spell but not being able to finish like he was being stopped mid cast

Reminds me of the days when henchmen would run back to wherever it was that they died in a straight line, disregarding the fact that where they died might be higher or lower than where they were resurrected.

Heroes hate to cast sigs or anything on you unless you are well within aggro range.
http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showp...&postcount=129

I was told that this is the way "it was meant to be." I call BS and even if it was. Admit it, everyone got used to the way it was and there weren't as many complaints as there have been over the last couple of days.

Nothing out of the ordinary there...

I noticed some wierd hero/hench AI doing end game prophecies missions on sunday.

Devona leeroyed into everything, I finally gave up on her because she kept trying to out suicide Brechnar the Dwarf.

Rezzing seems broken, they either wont rez at all, or are running 1/2 the map to rez, even when flagged. I even ended up taking a rez, which I never do when going H/H. At one point I had 3 dead with the H/H flagged back 2/3 of compass away and all the h/h with a rez would run towards the dead, then realise they were flagged and run back.

The elementalists seem to want to kamikaze every now and then, even without 1/2 range or some other close AOE spells.

In the Ring of Fire mission, I had to restart several times because the hench wouldnt rez fast enough to beat the energy removal of the ether seals, they would just attack until drained.

Also, the AI on Master of Magic stinks, they should be casting it like its an attunement, but they use it more like a glyph.

Thank you all. I thought it was me.

I noticed aggro problems with my heroes (hench are always nuts) but thought I was flagging badly or something. Even the minions, who normally go out of their way to aggro a mob, have been running backwards and off to the side to aggro a group you bypassed.

Nice to know it's the game for a change.

I really have had no problems with Devona in the past infact I would say she is the best henchie in all 3 Camps and is usually the last to die in Factions.I have noticed Koss won't attack when called target he just stands there.

I noticed this whilst vanquishing in Istan over the weekend - the warrior henchie (Timera?) kept taking personal offense at mobs outside aggro range, to the point where I kept having to reflag in order to prevent her one-woman rampages.

It was like having a real wammo on the team - I was waiting for her to cast mending and start screaming "OMG U SUX NOOB!" at me...

Yes, the Ring of Fire mission is a telltale sign of the broken AI after the update. Going in, the mobs are outside of aggro range. However, melees will just go right after brechnar and attack the mobs. Even after flagged.

Edit: did a couple of tests with Ring of Fire, and got very odd results:

Heroes used:
- Koss (W)
- Acolyte Jin (R)
- Melonni (D)
Henches used:
- Devona (W)
- Aiden (R)
- Little Thom (W)

Method used: just added heroes/henches to team, Enter Mission. Stood still and watched what happened. If I flagged, I put the flag on my position.

Map situation: At the start, the mob is some distance away, about 2x aggro. After a few seconds, the mob approaches you to about 1.3x aggro, but is not aggro'd by you and does not attack unless you aggro/attack them first. Then they move away chasing Brechnar.

First the hench behaviour. You can't change their agression setting, so there's not much you can do against their behaviour.
- No flag: Devona and Little Thom use "Charge!" straight away and start attacking the mobs in most cases. This proves that melee henches are willing to attack anything 2x aggro away without provocation. Aiden, on the other hand, doesn't do anything, not even when they approach to about 1.3x aggro. Sometimes Devona and Little Thom wait for the mobs to approach. They will not stay still though. They will attack the mobs at one point.
- Flagged: Aiden still won't attack. The warriors, however, show erratic behaviour. In most cases they will stay put, but sometimes they will charge in despite being flagged. I haven't figured out why they run in though. I have repeated the same process about 30 times, and about 5 times they charged in when the mob approached. They were definitely still outside of aggro range.

The heroes show different behaviour, depending on their aggro setting.
- Fight setting ("I will fight anyone who attacks us and anyone we attack"), no flag: Contrary to the henches, the heroes will not rush in straight away at 2x aggro (in about 30 times, only Koss rushed in at the start once). However, when the mob approaches to 1.3x aggro, all three heroes attack, including the ranger. So a ranger hero is different from a ranger hench. The hero will attack, the hench will not.
- Fight setting, flagged: Erratic behaviour by all three. Sometimes they attack, sometimes they don't. But when they attack, they all do, so it's all or nothing. The weird thing is that in some cases the hero standing the furthest away from the mob triggers the attack.
- Guard setting: Contrary to my findings prior to this test, I found that the heroes will not engage the mobs when on guard, whether they are flagged or not.

Conclusion: if you want your h/h team not to engage enemies outside of your aggro bubble, do not take warrior henches and set your heroes to guard mode. Taking a ranger hench is fine.



Edit: I just tested a few casters as well: E, N and Me henches and E, N and Me heroes. The caster henchies react the same way as Aiden (R): do not engage enemy whether flagged or not. I've only tested the caster heroes a few times, but it seems they react the same way as melee heroes: on 'fight' they will attack always, on 'guard' they will never attack. Flags don't matter. So my conclusion still stands: do not take melee henches and set your heroes to guard.

^^ that happens to my henchies too! It is very annoying especially if I'm trying to avoid groups and run past them! You cannot flag them they should follow you without fighting!!!
Devona and all melee henchies aggro everything like crazy! What's going on?

try playing a ranger with a long bow....now the h/h wont do anything unless I flag them on top of the mobs.....and who is in the lead?? not the warrior....SOSUKE!! why the heck does he need to be in front??? (no touch based skills...nothing of the sort!!)....argh...they went from really bad to horrible....yeah great improvement NOT!!!!

I have *always* had trouble with Devona running off to return with several aggroed groups from considerably beyond the aggro bubble (to the point of barely on the radar at all!). It has been worse the past couple months, though, and now it seems she has convinced Koss this is the "true" warrior way as he has begun to emulate her.

It's no worse than Alesia and "Sister Die" (Tai) standing on the *other side of the foe from the warriors* when Healing. I could understand her needing to be closer to the action than the other casters, but ......

Professor Gai utterly failed today. I usually don't take him out much - today he was "interrupted" at nearly every turn even when there was nothing being cast or sniped to interrupt! He spent a lot of time taking dirt naps.

Vizunah was a nightmare Saturday night. The foreign team was entirely henches. They arrived at the rendezvous point, we all killed the Afflicted there, and they ran back to their beginning point (presumably), never to be seen again. Are their contracts up for renewal?

The flag system does seem to be broken. Sometimes flagging the heros keeps them from going kamikaze. Mostly they ignore your commands and sally forth into the jaws of certain death. Flagging does not work on the henches at all. Proved that last night in mission with a guildmate. We only took a couple henches to round out our group - and they refused to stay behind, even to allow the guildie to pull groups. Most annoying.

I have to agree some major crazy oddity with the heros, they have become TOTALLY obsessed with resing people 1/2 way across the map.

OR at times the hero monks refuse to ressurect anyone at all! Thanks goodness I equip the others with at least a sig!