Mad H/H behavior after the update?
Zahr Dalsk
My H/H aren't paying any attention to my target calls.
Age
While they are at it they can get rid of the grunting as ithas gone on for months now.
Sifow Chan
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
My H/H aren't paying any attention to my target calls.
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I also had something happen where my team got wiped out from groups joining to mob me. Well when I ressed...My henchmen ran to the mob that killed us and started fighting them even though they were like not on the mini map. I did not even have them flagged.
Regina Buenaobra
The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.
Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range.
Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range.
Numa Pompilius
Yeah, but behavior has changed. Not only will occasionally heroes run off into the sunset in search of enemies to attack, even though the player isn't in combat and the enemy is way outside the aggro circle, but heroes now refuse to use skills if they'd rather use some other skill (leading to the hero using no skill at all until you unclick - he wont use the one you ordered him to, and can't use the one he wants because you've ordered him to use another).
Kook~NBK~
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.
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| Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range. |
THE SAME!
Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.
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Have any other players had this problem?
Nude Nira
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.
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So what I can assume is that, by giving really no information at all, other then telling us the obvious, the devs meant to do this. I would have at least expected an answer somewhat along these lines: "Hmm, the devs didn't change the heroes to spaz out like they do, let me go look into it".
I think I'm going to agree with others when they say that Anet is trying to push us away from H/H and back to fail pugging? I have a feeling I'm right.
Stolen Souls
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
On the subject of caster modification, I believe that casters acting so very cautious puts backline players at a disadvantage - to have the AI follow our target calls (I've stopped bringing melee H/H because of the aggro obsession that they have developed) I, and most likely others, now have to actually get into aggro range, meaning we become something of a target, when previously we could call a target from a greater distance and the AI teammates would engage first, taking most of the aggro. I have noticed this most severely on my Paragon (where ideally the other party members take all the hits, to be absorbed by SY), but it also shows itself for my Ritualist and Elementalist.
Have any other players had this problem? |
Yes, this is actually my biggest complaint. I've been working on my Monk...going for survivor. It's pretty hard to do so, when I have to draw the aggro myself. One time my health dropped to ~45. Since that close call, I stay way back and flag the h/h into the mobs. I'd much rather how it used to be...call the target and the h/h run in and engage. Now I call the target and they just....stand behind me...doing nothing.
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range.
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dwc89
Hadn't played for a while, and after reading this it explains a bit.
Was wondering why the war hench in particular were running off to attack a group I sometimes didn't even notice.
Btw, it is not only Devona, but Talon Silverwing and Lukas as well. Haven't tried the prophecies versions yet.
So, something is amiss. And please don't give us the "working as intended" thing.
Thinking that having no H/H in GW2 is prob a good thing, less to break
Was wondering why the war hench in particular were running off to attack a group I sometimes didn't even notice.
Btw, it is not only Devona, but Talon Silverwing and Lukas as well. Haven't tried the prophecies versions yet.
So, something is amiss. And please don't give us the "working as intended" thing.
Thinking that having no H/H in GW2 is prob a good thing, less to break
SirSausage
I also noticed how hero minions barely react when I call a target. 
It takes around 10 seconds for them to realize that they should move their rotten a55es and attack the target. Unfortunately, by then my health already dropped to 50 percent. On top of that, some henchies still heal minions.
There IS something wrong with the hero AI.
It takes around 10 seconds for them to realize that they should move their rotten a55es and attack the target. Unfortunately, by then my health already dropped to 50 percent. On top of that, some henchies still heal minions.
There IS something wrong with the hero AI.
Nessar
I've been having the same problem lately. I call a target, h/h stand there and do nothing. So if I'm a caster, I have to run in there and aggro the mob. Sometime even after I aggro mob, they still stand around and do nothing! So then I have to wand the shit out of something before they react. By the time they react, the monster is already dead -.-. This is really annoying on my monk, seeing as how she dies almost everytime I go to aggro a mob <<. (Also the same issue with minions, they do nothing until 80% of the mob is dead <<)
I could flag the h/h right in the middle of the mob, but they should respond to targets being called from a range :/
I never really had a problem with melee h/h running out and aggroing random stuff. Only in Naphui Quarter mission...other then that, they don't go aggro crazy. Oh, maybe while vanquishing, they love pulling everything in sight ._.
I could flag the h/h right in the middle of the mob, but they should respond to targets being called from a range :/
I never really had a problem with melee h/h running out and aggroing random stuff. Only in Naphui Quarter mission...other then that, they don't go aggro crazy. Oh, maybe while vanquishing, they love pulling everything in sight ._.
Minako Sawai
I have mixed feelings about the new behavior. Last night I was playing with 3 heroes and 4 henchies, including Devona.
At first, her more aggressive "attack anything I see" worked well. She would take off up into a hilltop fort, aggro a group, then run back out and the rest of us picked them off. Rinse and repeat. Or she'd run off and aggro a new nearby mob just as the first was being finished off. It was harder, but I was enjoying things. I just adjusted my play to take that into account. I never had her taking off clear across the map, either. She did charge just about any nearby group that was well outside of the aggro circle, but ONLY when already fighting. When just running through an area I could go right by mobs with no problems; she'd behave herself. Her aggression only seemed to kick in during combat or while standing around and a mob started to get near the edge of the aggro circle.
Later on, at another fort, she ran off, along with some of Olias' minions and then the rest of the H/H decided to help her, but very piecemeal. It actually was quite wild, with each hero/hench attacking a different target, often with a minion helping; everyone all over the place and no teamwork. Needless to say, things didn't go very well. And they all ignored me even when I tried to draw everyone back. Plus I was laughing so hard at the whole situation that I didn't make very good decisions myself, so we all got killed. But it was fun.
I don't know, everyone always complains about how easy PvE is, so perhaps this should be welcomed. The AI is certainly playing more like many human players do. I kind of like the H/H not being complete robots. But then I'm a newbie and not playing in the harder parts of the game yet.
At first, her more aggressive "attack anything I see" worked well. She would take off up into a hilltop fort, aggro a group, then run back out and the rest of us picked them off. Rinse and repeat. Or she'd run off and aggro a new nearby mob just as the first was being finished off. It was harder, but I was enjoying things. I just adjusted my play to take that into account. I never had her taking off clear across the map, either. She did charge just about any nearby group that was well outside of the aggro circle, but ONLY when already fighting. When just running through an area I could go right by mobs with no problems; she'd behave herself. Her aggression only seemed to kick in during combat or while standing around and a mob started to get near the edge of the aggro circle.
Later on, at another fort, she ran off, along with some of Olias' minions and then the rest of the H/H decided to help her, but very piecemeal. It actually was quite wild, with each hero/hench attacking a different target, often with a minion helping; everyone all over the place and no teamwork. Needless to say, things didn't go very well. And they all ignored me even when I tried to draw everyone back. Plus I was laughing so hard at the whole situation that I didn't make very good decisions myself, so we all got killed. But it was fun.
I don't know, everyone always complains about how easy PvE is, so perhaps this should be welcomed. The AI is certainly playing more like many human players do. I kind of like the H/H not being complete robots. But then I'm a newbie and not playing in the harder parts of the game yet.
Red-Tide
What about the ressing glitch Regina? Is that intended? My dunkoro runs to whoever is dead starts casting then breaks it off and runs back. Sometimes I eventually get ressed, other times I have to resign or flag my heroes into a mob to get them all killed so we can all res.
This is intended behaviour? If so that is messed up...
This is intended behaviour? If so that is messed up...
Draikin
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.
Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range. |
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Originally Posted by Red-Tide
What about the ressing glitch Regina? Is that intended? My dunkoro runs to whoever is dead starts casting then breaks it off and runs back. Sometimes I eventually get ressed, other times I have to resign or flag my heroes into a mob to get them all killed so we can all res.
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Abedeus
Vanquishing in 6-8 areas h/h is EXTREMELY hard now. I mean, it used to be easy, but my Sister Tai likes to run close to enemies just to heal frontliner (one warrior... because it's not like I'm going to tank with a ranger or let monsters kill my squishies) or use Resurrect (...) mid-battle. And this way from easy-peasy battle it's EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING. Not challenging. Frustrating, because fighting with bug =/= challenge, it's masochism.
And melee henchmen don't seem aggressive, they ARE a bunch of idiots. I mean, you could fix them in 5 seconds if you wanted, A.Net. But why? Make h/h'ers suffer.
And melee henchmen don't seem aggressive, they ARE a bunch of idiots. I mean, you could fix them in 5 seconds if you wanted, A.Net. But why? Make h/h'ers suffer.
dwc89
Just did a SF run with H/H and guess who took off after a totally different mob than I had targeted - the one and only uber aggressive Devona.
Not fun having engaged one mob, have 2 boss mobs come runnig up a set of stairs to tell you - time to go.
It reminded me of being in a FoW pug and tank going "chest" and aggroing everything in site.
She did do this the entire time, but the aggros were manageable up to that point.
Not fun having engaged one mob, have 2 boss mobs come runnig up a set of stairs to tell you - time to go.
It reminded me of being in a FoW pug and tank going "chest" and aggroing everything in site.
She did do this the entire time, but the aggros were manageable up to that point.
FlamingMetroid
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.
Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range. |
-Makai-
I'm sorry, but Regina's reply is grossly inaccurate. Was it intended for melee henchmen to aggro five groups at a time? Was it intended for Sousuke to just stand around twiddling his thumbs? Was it intended for Olias to ignore Death Pact Signet when he's the only party member still standing? Should players be punished for trying to carefully pull? Should players be punished for not wanting to party with the gibbering mess of children who make up 90% of the population? (Ready for 'join a guild' comments here).
Please, please, please don't support this. There's a difference between making the game harder through legitimate means (making mobs a bit more variable, etc.) than making it frustrating due to poor programming. The more I think about it, I more I believe this whole problem was intentional. Oh well...I guess my dollar will be going to something else in the future. I haven't felt this addled about a gaming company since EA backstabbed their customers through SecuROM and shifted the blame.
I'm not even going to start on the whole 'melee henchmen seem to be more aggressive' band-aid.
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Originally Posted by Minako Sawai
I don't know, everyone always complains about how easy PvE is, so perhaps this should be welcomed. |
I'm not even going to start on the whole 'melee henchmen seem to be more aggressive' band-aid.
Legion Magnus
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.
Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range. |
Or better yet, open up the number of Heroes we can have and solve the problem entirely. Its good to have Henchman available for those who have not yet developed their number and expertise of Heroes yet. But for those that have and wish to use non-Human party members why not open up the Team to all Heroes?
I view the application of Heroes much like that of skills on a skill bar. You want the right mix of 'skills' to apply to the right circumstances. Most have put a lot of effort into developing their Heroes, why not let them take full advantage of them?
Legion Magnus
Dr.Jones
heros and hench AI has been bad for a long time this update didn't make it worse or noticeably better. they have always go off off where they are flagged. always had really bad path finding issues. the biggest problem is heros don't know how to use skills.
Darkside
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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra
The melee Henchmen haven't been changed significantly with the last build. They made the casters a lot more cautious, so it looks like the melee Henchmen are more aggressive than they actually are.
Additionally, the aggro range used to be based upon weapon type, so previously the spellcasters had a wider range than melee Henchmen. With the last build, they equalized the melee range, so that spellcasters and melee fighters have the same aggro range. |
Unfortunately, I've also noticed that when a group of monsters graze your aggro bubble the heros and hench will just randomly attack them. Even when flagged and even tho the monsters had not been aggroed.
Also noticed that the heros/hench still wont give up on targets. I've had Devona run off screen running after a mob.
When I was vanquishing in I believe it was the Dala uplands there was this charr mob that once aggroed would just run away from you...they would run a real long distance as well...anyway after chasing them a good distance I noticed that if I kept going I would be aggroing a bunch of groups so I stopped and Devona just kept going even tho everyone else had stopped. So I put a flag down and she started to come back my way. I canceled the flag and she again took off after the group even tho they were not even on screen anymore. It was weird...
Calista Blackblood
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Originally Posted by Sante_Kelm
I'm sorry, but Regina's reply is grossly inaccurate. Was it intended for melee henchmen to aggro five groups at a time? Was it intended for Sousuke to just stand around twiddling his thumbs? Was it intended for Olias to ignore Death Pact Signet when he's the only party member still standing? Should players be punished for trying to carefully pull? Should players be punished for not wanting to party with the gibbering mess of children who make up 90% of the population? (Ready for 'join a guild' comments here).
Please, please, please don't support this. There's a difference between making the game harder through legitimate means (making mobs a bit more variable, etc.) than making it frustrating due to poor programming. The more I think about it, I more I believe this whole problem was intentional. Oh well...I guess my dollar will be going to something else in the future. I haven't felt this addled about a gaming company since EA backstabbed their customers through SecuROM and shifted the blame. I'm not even going to start on the whole 'melee henchmen seem to be more aggressive' band-aid. |
And to add to it
Was it intended that minion masters cower at the back of a party? i could see through it if my mm ran bone fiends,but alas im not that stupid
Was it intended that devona aggros mobs in cantha while your party is in tyria?
Was it intended that a healer on "avoid combat" not takes it upon himself to not only aggro but tank until his energy is gone, proceed to die and leave the party without an important backliner and not act like a tank/puller.Not to mention the ignorance of flags across all heros ive played with lately.
Frankly im surprised HFFF is still possible
Actually! is there motive to all the h/h ai changes? Was the QQing about kurzick HFFF heeded? and this is an attempt to stop it/make it take longer?
Or is it a badly thought out attempt at making people PUG more?
I know it's not Regina's fault at lack of information and reasonable explanations,but it seems that lately anet has taken a "we have your money nao,so we're gonna make you unhappy" mentality
not a good way to keep player bases
Legion Magnus
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Originally Posted by Dr.Jones
the biggest problem is heros don't know how to use skills.
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I'd much rather see ANet fix the skill-handling of Heroes than Henchman aggressiveness.
Legion Magnus
Darcy
This is new behavior on the part of melee henchmen, not just a perceived change.
I am taking my necro from KC to Marketplace (on foot as she is leveling heroes). I get to the TOP of stairs at the afflicted square. My aggro circle did not even reach the bottom of the stairs and the nearest party of afflicted was another 1/2 circle away.
I am studying the radar to determine the best area to pull when I see a green dot running out into the square. It is Talon leeroying his way to battle.(I wish they could talk, at least it would give you some warning.)
It was too late to flag him back, so we got swarmed by afflicted. This behavior is not normal for henchmen, even when the casters thought they were tanks.
I am taking my necro from KC to Marketplace (on foot as she is leveling heroes). I get to the TOP of stairs at the afflicted square. My aggro circle did not even reach the bottom of the stairs and the nearest party of afflicted was another 1/2 circle away.
I am studying the radar to determine the best area to pull when I see a green dot running out into the square. It is Talon leeroying his way to battle.(I wish they could talk, at least it would give you some warning.)
It was too late to flag him back, so we got swarmed by afflicted. This behavior is not normal for henchmen, even when the casters thought they were tanks.
Minako Sawai
Agreed, I think improving the skill-handling (and builds for henchmen) would really make the biggest difference. While I haven't had (or perhaps noticed) the problems others are seeing, the AI control does seem to be doing some strange stuff.
Perhaps this thread will help prod things to be tweaked again until they get it right? The fact they changed things should mean they knew some work in this area was needed, now like some of the skill changes they just need to tweak until they get it right.
Devona's description from the wiki: "Devona is the level-headed leader of the party. She always assesses a situation before rushing in..."
Perhaps this thread will help prod things to be tweaked again until they get it right? The fact they changed things should mean they knew some work in this area was needed, now like some of the skill changes they just need to tweak until they get it right.
Devona's description from the wiki: "Devona is the level-headed leader of the party. She always assesses a situation before rushing in..."
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Originally Posted by Legion Magnus
Granted, and good point, although much like our children, they are not perfect in every way, but they are ours - to develop and mold into Heroes!
I'd much rather see ANet fix the skill-handling of Heroes than Henchman aggressiveness. Legion Magnus |
Lopezus
Devona went berserk , that's for sure.
Kashrlyyk
Just to take the fire away from Buenaobra: Linsey says the same stuff: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/showp...4&postcount=63
Nightow
Earlier today. I was in the middle of a CoF run, on lvl2 in the very last room.
I had just taken out the first 3 mobs (2 undead and 1 of enchanted weapons) and needed a heal so I selected myself and manually had him cast Signet of Devotion on me. This is what happened:
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8924/gw057vf9.jpg
He would begin casting it and as soon as it reached the 1/3 mark, he would stop and repeat it in an infinite loop. I had to manually unselect the skill to get him to stop. Keep in mind, this was after a few moments and my allies healed me instead but still, he wouldn't cast it even when I was still below max health.
If Regina still reads this thread, I ask her to seriously look at whats being said here. Even though heroes might be fine and dandy to you guys, it's us who have to work with them most of the time.
I had just taken out the first 3 mobs (2 undead and 1 of enchanted weapons) and needed a heal so I selected myself and manually had him cast Signet of Devotion on me. This is what happened:
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/8924/gw057vf9.jpg
He would begin casting it and as soon as it reached the 1/3 mark, he would stop and repeat it in an infinite loop. I had to manually unselect the skill to get him to stop. Keep in mind, this was after a few moments and my allies healed me instead but still, he wouldn't cast it even when I was still below max health.
If Regina still reads this thread, I ask her to seriously look at whats being said here. Even though heroes might be fine and dandy to you guys, it's us who have to work with them most of the time.
pumpkin pie
I have a question: are the hench program to attach healer/monk type foes at whatever cost?
I pwnd U
My heroes seem to not realize I am there even more so now... I am the only one taking any damage and they sit there and watch me die. Normally they atleast try to heal me.
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by I pwnd U
My heroes seem to not realize I am there even more so now... I am the only one taking any damage and they sit there and watch me die. Normally they atleast try to heal me.
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75% - Okay, where's the heal?
50% - Uhm... Heal?
20% - What the hell?!
10% - HEAL ME YOU IDIOT!!
0% - Oh wow, now you use Resurrect, thank you, Sister Tai. Oh look, more people are dying.
25% - What, now I must heal myself? Oka...
0% - Forgot - no energy.
Woot, imo this is another way of saying "we don't like h/h'ers".
RedNova88
Or it could just be a simple bug that hasn't been fixed yet. H/H have ALWAYS been buggy like this. Crap like this was happening to me before the changes. Just because something bad happens to you, doesn't mean they're out to get you. I'm sure Anet understands the stupidity of PuGs, I'll still take regular old henchman over a random idiot that thinks he's the king of the world.
Angelica
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Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk
Just to take the fire away from Buenaobra: Linsey says the same stuff: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/showp...4&postcount=63
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I don't even know what she is doing at Anet!I miss Gaile so much,
I wish she was back. PS. Flame away...... I don't care anymore!
sindex
Coming from a person who has done most of his work with Hero and Henchmen groups, this difference seems to be more leaned towards broken AI behavior then in previous builds. There is absolutely no reason why a Hero that is set to “Guard Mode,” should act like it’s on “Suicide Mode” (10 times worse then “Attack Mode”). I don’t care what the developers excuse is for this, since it is not “normal behavior.”
I’m going to do some more testing. However, it’s not just melee but caster H/H that are doing this as well.
I’m going to do some more testing. However, it’s not just melee but caster H/H that are doing this as well.
Aussie Boy
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Calista BlackBlood Was it intended that devona aggros mobs in cantha while your party is in tyria? |
Please roll back this stupid "Fix"
Kashrlyyk
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Originally Posted by Angelica
O.T. Why would you take the fire away from Buenaobra? She vouldn't care a bit about us, what kind of relations should she mantain with players?
I don't even know what she is doing at Anet!I miss Gaile so much, I wish she was back. PS. Flame away...... I don't care anymore! |
cosyfiep
I'm sorry but sosuke is STILL leading ....he is NOT a TANK!!!! PLEASE fix this!!!
(and yes no healing is getting old, good thing most of my characters have self heals)....and I dont seem to mind the new over agro of talon or devona since they are the ONLY heroes/henchies that seem to want to do anything at all....I select a target "I am targeting the healer" everyone just stands there looking bored except olias who is healing his minions...uhm get your pixelated butts in gear and go kill things!! Sigh.
(and yes no healing is getting old, good thing most of my characters have self heals)....and I dont seem to mind the new over agro of talon or devona since they are the ONLY heroes/henchies that seem to want to do anything at all....I select a target "I am targeting the healer" everyone just stands there looking bored except olias who is healing his minions...uhm get your pixelated butts in gear and go kill things!! Sigh.
pumpkin pie
okay, this just happens today, Jora lol I hope this is not the results of all the QQ, Jora is on attack mode (first button) always unless i diable it, and caster is always on defence (second button) and she usually will continute to go for the next target closest her, but today, today she just can't make up her mind, kill first call target, ran back, I am already attacking second target, and I have to call it again, Jora whose half way running back turns around rand back to kill the second target then she turns around and ran toward me once more, why cos second target already down, so I have to call the third target .... and this goes one the whole trip, come on, don't play around, my survivor is very close to level 3 its making me getting heart attack.
Angelica
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Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk
Because shooting the messenger doesn´t help. Ms. Buenaobra informed herself and gave that information to us, that is her job. Nothing else.
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