Mad H/H behavior after the update?
Dzjudz
I edited my above post with some testing I've just done. More testing to be done.
Kook~NBK~
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Originally Posted by cosyfiep
try playing a ranger with a long bow....now the h/h wont do anything unless I flag them on top of the mobs.....and who is in the lead?? not the warrior....SOSUKE!! why the heck does he need to be in front??? (no touch based skills...nothing of the sort!!)....argh...they went from really bad to horrible....yeah great improvement NOT!!!!
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When heading towards the next battle, he'd bring up the rear because we didn't sit around waiting for him to finish raising that last minion. Before the update, this wasn't an issue because he would catch up with the group when I stopped. But NOW when the party stops for the next mob, he will stop wherever he is (usually just outside my [Mesmer] Aggro bubble) and cast the "maintenance" spells on his minions (BotM, Death Nova, etc) instead of coming up to the party and then doing that stuff. This results in a minion army standing on the edge of battle as spectators. It's annoying having to flag him just so he'll come into the proximity of the party.
Dzjudz
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Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~
When heading towards the next battle, he'd bring up the rear because we didn't sit around waiting for him to finish raising that last minion. Before the update, this wasn't an issue because he would catch up with the group when I stopped. But NOW when the party stops for the next mob, he will stop wherever he is (usually just outside my [Mesmer] Aggro bubble) and cast the "maintenance" spells on his minions (BotM, Death Nova, etc) instead of coming up to the party and then doing that stuff. This results in a minion army standing on the edge of battle as spectators. It's annoying having to flag him just so he'll come into the proximity of the party.
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AGENT XY
I had some strange things happen too. Especially this:
I was farming lb/ss points with Junundu wurms, flagged my Party into a huge mob and went afk (set them on defend). When i came back later, i found that i have been killed by a single margonite over and over, although my heros were right next to me (my aggro bubble overlapped with that of my H/H and the margonite). I really think before this update they would have defended me, but now they did nothing. Maybe i'm wrong. can anyone confirm something like this?
I was farming lb/ss points with Junundu wurms, flagged my Party into a huge mob and went afk (set them on defend). When i came back later, i found that i have been killed by a single margonite over and over, although my heros were right next to me (my aggro bubble overlapped with that of my H/H and the margonite). I really think before this update they would have defended me, but now they did nothing. Maybe i'm wrong. can anyone confirm something like this?
mllepandora
I'm not exactly the best "tester" and I realize that the Zaishen Elite AI battles may not be the best area to test in, but I was rounding out my Balth faction there last night.
I didn't want to be there too long so I loaded up Jin and I with traps, and I noticed a few things while there, most notably:
Dunkuro used to require much less micro managing. He now just stands there, on passive. I had to force more than a few commands, including res.
Jin would just stand there, on guard, until the enemies were on top of her, not using any skill at all until I pushed space bar to attack. (Ugh) Then she'd finally kick into gear.
I've taken Jin with a trapper build, pre-update before (esp. fun in the Defense of the Eye quest) and she didn't need too much micro management at all...aside from flagging her where i needed the traps. (and at times, the order in which I wanted them, but that's normal.)
I'm afraid to finish out my survivor's final level of the title with the AI so wonky...hopefully they can fix whatever this is. (yes, I could cheese out and finish survivor with Kilroy's boxing, but I really don't want to resort to that. Its much more fun for me to try and get through the game the way it was intended.)
I didn't want to be there too long so I loaded up Jin and I with traps, and I noticed a few things while there, most notably:
Dunkuro used to require much less micro managing. He now just stands there, on passive. I had to force more than a few commands, including res.
Jin would just stand there, on guard, until the enemies were on top of her, not using any skill at all until I pushed space bar to attack. (Ugh) Then she'd finally kick into gear.
I've taken Jin with a trapper build, pre-update before (esp. fun in the Defense of the Eye quest) and she didn't need too much micro management at all...aside from flagging her where i needed the traps. (and at times, the order in which I wanted them, but that's normal.)
I'm afraid to finish out my survivor's final level of the title with the AI so wonky...hopefully they can fix whatever this is. (yes, I could cheese out and finish survivor with Kilroy's boxing, but I really don't want to resort to that. Its much more fun for me to try and get through the game the way it was intended.)
AOD_EaSyKiLL
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Originally Posted by mllepandora
I'm afraid to finish out my survivor's final level of the title with the AI so wonky...hopefully they can fix whatever this is. (yes, I could cheese out and finish survivor with Kilroy's boxing, but I really don't want to resort to that. Its much more fun for me to try and get through the game the way it was intended.)
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mllepandora
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Originally Posted by AOD_EaSyKiLL
Thats what happend to me, lol. Went in to Ring of Fire with 250k exp on survivor, came out with 17 deaths (by droks end area). I had about 10 safe escapes going, then just got caught in some major degen and boom, it was gone. All I wanted to do was open up HM on this paticular account to make survivor go a little faster. Oh well.
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That sucks! To get so far...yet be so far away! (at least you can finish the games with that char with no fear and try again...)
My first attempt got killed due to some massive lag on my end. (I found out later that my roomie was downloading WoW content at the time. Talk about adding insult to injury...LOL. Death by WoW.)
Luckily, I've got HM opened on my account already, without risking my "cowardly" Survivor in the final missions just yet. (I've hero/henched most of the games with her on NM by now...I am *not* above escaping to the Guild hall, and don't want to leave other players in the lurch.)
I think I can entertain myself with other chars until we know more, one way or the other..I hope they do look into it, and if not...well I'll have to just be that much more of a run-away-to-guild-hall chicken.
The Red Messenger
yeah my heroes are a bit jumpy since the update. when standing still or flagged back, they will sometimes go out of their way to fight while on defend.
R.Shayne
Great now I feel like a jerk. I was helping a friend through a mission yesterday and his Koss and Meloni kept leeroying. I kept telling him to set his heroes to guard and he kept telling me they were on guard but I never believed him. Even went so far as to tell him which button should be selected.
Well looks like I need to go apologize to someone.
I have also had a problem with Jora when using a ranger. I will place a party flag then pull a group; once the group is pulled I will un-flag. Jora does fine against melee attackers but against range attackers she will run towards the group, stop half way there and run back to me, then repeat it, and keep repeating it until I flag her next to the range attackers. It is like I still have her flagged even though I have cancelled the group flag.
Well looks like I need to go apologize to someone.
I have also had a problem with Jora when using a ranger. I will place a party flag then pull a group; once the group is pulled I will un-flag. Jora does fine against melee attackers but against range attackers she will run towards the group, stop half way there and run back to me, then repeat it, and keep repeating it until I flag her next to the range attackers. It is like I still have her flagged even though I have cancelled the group flag.
sph0nz
Yesterday I noticed Master of Whispers [skill]spiteful spirit[/skill] aggro a two mobs; further, heroes still seem to use [skill]extinguish[/skill] even with only one party member suffering from one condition (paragon with cracked armor). It was supposed to be less likely to occur, but I have yet to see that.
Rexion
my minion master prefered to cast Death Nova over running from 3 mobs of 6.
Talon Whateverwing ran into a boss mob just because I clicked it. Didn't attack it or anything, just clicked.
yeah, i think it's messed up.
Talon Whateverwing ran into a boss mob just because I clicked it. Didn't attack it or anything, just clicked.
yeah, i think it's messed up.
Shayne Hawke
I'm feeling like removing any and all melee classes from my team after they decide, with no calls or prior direction, to aggro groups that are half the radar screen away.
Chthon
Yes, I've definitely noticed the H/H AI running off to attack things outside their aggro radius despite my best efforts to prevent them from doing so, even after the update that supposedly fixed the problem.
Bluefeather
Before the update, i have no problem with flagging and pulling using a long bow (im a warrior). Now, i can't use my bow anymore coz even if Koss is far from the mobs, he would still attack when I use my bow. I notice that he does this when he is within my aggro bubble but it wasn't like that before the update.
Now, its either i flag them far or i just pull them using body.
Now, its either i flag them far or i just pull them using body.
SpiritThief
Got all the same issues too. Helping someone, and heroes just attacking things way outside the bubble.
Lady Lozza
Koss has been a pain lately too, I just thought it was me.
Zahr Dalsk
ArenaNet. Heroes are still a lot more pleasant than PUGs, they don't discriminate, and they aren't retarded. And they're still far better at the game than the average PUG player.
You'll need to make them run around randomly on the entire map, spontaneously map out, aggro everything, change their bars while zoning, make them spew poorly written insults, have random and shoddily drawn genitalia appear on the compass, and disable them for Ritualists, Mesmers, Assassins, and Paragons before they're down to the PUG level. At which point I guess you'd be cutting off around 70% of GW2 potential sales.
You'll need to make them run around randomly on the entire map, spontaneously map out, aggro everything, change their bars while zoning, make them spew poorly written insults, have random and shoddily drawn genitalia appear on the compass, and disable them for Ritualists, Mesmers, Assassins, and Paragons before they're down to the PUG level. At which point I guess you'd be cutting off around 70% of GW2 potential sales.
Aussie Boy
I have had trouble with Livia since the update she won't stay with me or if she does she stays right on the edge of my agro bubble
with her minions even if I flag her alongside me.
Yesterday was running Olias Livia and Masters and henchies doing a vanquish and had flagged them but I moved out of agro range
they ran off and ignored the flags henchies stayed with me So i started chasing them they actually went right back to the portal and
stopped dead and wouldn't obey any new flag placements.
Had to rezone and things were sort of ok after that. just weird IMO
with her minions even if I flag her alongside me.
Yesterday was running Olias Livia and Masters and henchies doing a vanquish and had flagged them but I moved out of agro range
they ran off and ignored the flags henchies stayed with me So i started chasing them they actually went right back to the portal and
stopped dead and wouldn't obey any new flag placements.
Had to rezone and things were sort of ok after that. just weird IMO
Steboy93
Yesterday whilst vanquishing my heros simply refused to cast aegis, even against mobs that were all melee.
I'm also having the olias problem as mentioned earlier, but this has been happening since before the update.
I'm also having the olias problem as mentioned earlier, but this has been happening since before the update.
Aldric
I was H/H vanquishing Sunjiang Dist yesterday and the AI control was incredibly bad.
Melee hench ran across the map to aggro anything they could (usually when I was setting FS and preparing positions
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Flags also didn't seem to work very well. Near the end I had 2 close goups of 10-12 afflicted so I made my preperations and tried to lure 1 to my position.Basically I arsed it up , got both groups and died. I had set the flags way back but each hero would continually run from the flag to my corpse. I had to keep cancelling the flag and resetting it but they kept running backwards and forwards even when the flag was set 2 bubbles away.
H/H AI does seem to have been downgraded with the latest update.
Melee hench ran across the map to aggro anything they could (usually when I was setting FS and preparing positions
)Flags also didn't seem to work very well. Near the end I had 2 close goups of 10-12 afflicted so I made my preperations and tried to lure 1 to my position.Basically I arsed it up , got both groups and died. I had set the flags way back but each hero would continually run from the flag to my corpse. I had to keep cancelling the flag and resetting it but they kept running backwards and forwards even when the flag was set 2 bubbles away.
H/H AI does seem to have been downgraded with the latest update.
Stolen Souls
I've been having multiple problems with heros/hench as well.
-melee henchies aggro from too far away
-h/h won't attack when I call a target like they used to...making me attack or run in and draw aggro before they'll engage
-Olias with the Sab MM build is just plain stupid now...falling WAY behind as he stops to cast enchants on his minions, getting caught in a cycle of casting Jagged Bones, Death Nova, and BotM. He always did this...but it is clearly worse now. Switched to my old MM build for now.
-heros refuse to cast Aegis, as was mentioned.
-melee henchies aggro from too far away
-h/h won't attack when I call a target like they used to...making me attack or run in and draw aggro before they'll engage
-Olias with the Sab MM build is just plain stupid now...falling WAY behind as he stops to cast enchants on his minions, getting caught in a cycle of casting Jagged Bones, Death Nova, and BotM. He always did this...but it is clearly worse now. Switched to my old MM build for now.
-heros refuse to cast Aegis, as was mentioned.
Shiro Katagari
Just ran through Vloxen Excavations and Devona was a crazy aggroing freakshow. I'd flag the party away, she'd ignore me, run to a mob, get killed, then both Mhenlo AND Lina would rush to her corpse (again, ignoring the flag) and die.
Cynn, meanwhile, has become quite demure, and needs to have someone come up and hit her before she'll start casting anything. Also, it looks like if there's nothing targetting her or adjacent to her, she'll go back to sleep - even in the middle of a fight!
Looks like the 'aggro' bubble got switched with the 'Spirit area' bubble
Cynn, meanwhile, has become quite demure, and needs to have someone come up and hit her before she'll start casting anything. Also, it looks like if there's nothing targetting her or adjacent to her, she'll go back to sleep - even in the middle of a fight!
Looks like the 'aggro' bubble got switched with the 'Spirit area' bubble
Warriorsrmint
I never noticed anything.
mr_stealth
The worst I've seen since the update was Master of Whispers (running jagged bomber;set to "defend") instisting on fighting a nearby mob we hadn't aggro'd. It was while I was helping a guildie with the quest to get from LA to Kamadan. A few NPCs and grasps were fighting just behind the first rift. They were far enough back that we didn't have to aggro them, but MoW instisted on doing so even after I walked about 1/2 radar away.
A little before that I noticed Vekk just relaxing in the back with me (monk) while the rest of the party was fighting a few feet away from him. I was standing outside of aggro range of the mobs, but was inside casting range of all fighting players/heroes. I had to wand the enemies to get him to cast.
A little before that I noticed Vekk just relaxing in the back with me (monk) while the rest of the party was fighting a few feet away from him. I was standing outside of aggro range of the mobs, but was inside casting range of all fighting players/heroes. I had to wand the enemies to get him to cast.
Red-Tide
Still no comment from anyone at Anet, Regina??? Where art thou?.
Epic fail on the Hero AI update.
Then again maybe they did it intentionally.
Epic fail on the Hero AI update.
Then again maybe they did it intentionally.
januscht
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Originally Posted by Red-Tide
Still no comment from anyone at Anet, Regina??? Where art thou?.
Epic fail on the Hero AI update. Then again maybe they did it intentionally. |
FlamingMetroid
I was having this problem too.
Realm of Torment is tons o fun when your melee henchies decide to play "Who can get the most agro."
Realm of Torment is tons o fun when your melee henchies decide to play "Who can get the most agro."
IrisLee
I'm only getting this with Melee H/H.
Like Devona...she thinks she's ten men.
Like Devona...she thinks she's ten men.
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by kratimas
I don't care how bad H/H AI gets, playing with other players will never be appealing. H/H AI will always be > (most) human players.
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On the other hand it is equally sure that ANet are doing their damndest to get people to group rather than play with H/H, witness not only the insanization of the H/H's but also the insane bump to the PvE skills (which H/H's can't use).
I think ANet is making a mistake in trying to force grouping, but then I've thought so about pretty much every design decision they've made for the last two years.
upier
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Originally Posted by januscht
maybe they just cant improve the hero ai without make a big mess, rollback the ai, i rather like stupid heros than crazy heros >_>
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illidan009
PUt monks and other healers on escape, everyone else on defense. Try to bring hero tank since devona always charges. Problem solved.
mllepandora
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Originally Posted by illidan009
PUt monks and other healers on escape, everyone else on defense. Try to bring hero tank since devona always charges. Problem solved.
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I've had the monks on Passive and everyone else on guard since I got my very first hero. The issue is not specifically that h/h are aggroing everything (they did that a bit before, especially if you were careless in some way.)
They all act differently now. Monks ignore res skills, flag commands are glitchy, caster heroes will sit in the middle of mobs and not cast, the list goes on....really.
Taking just casters seems to help a little but there are reports of "hero tanks" acting weird also.
(yes, after further PvE testing, I am mourning the loss of my usually-quite-attentive Dunkuro and prompt Olias. Dunk's been given a sleeping pill and Olias is lagging worse than a siege turtle...)
Stolen Souls
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Originally Posted by illidan009
PUt monks and other healers on escape, everyone else on defense. Try to bring hero tank since devona always charges. Problem solved.
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Wrong. Problem not solved. That does not solve the problem of Olias and his minions staying too far out of range to be of any use, or falling way behind due to getting stuck in a cycle of casting enchants. Defense mode does NOT prevent hero tanks from going suicidal. Nor does any of that fix the problem of casters not casting. The heros/henchies are worse now than they have been in a long time. They should have left them alone...
Amnel Ithtirsol
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Originally Posted by Stolen Souls
They should have left them alone...
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MoW kept dying last night in Slavers.
Jin thought she was Koss, running into mobs rather than doing her Splinter Barrage thing at the back where she should be.
Livia... oh gawd, lets not even go there.
ANet, come on...
lordheinous
I was just doing some fow with 3 heros earlier (trying to see how far I could go just for the challenge), there was a bit of overaggro (my fault, not the heros) and I, as the frontliner, died. So, no problem, I opened up olias's bar and ordered him to use death pact signet...which he refused to do, even though he was in range. Clicked off the check mark, clicked it again, still nothing. Opened up Livia's bar, same problem. Why wouldn't they use their freaking rezzes? Lol.
Bryant Again
Hard to tell from a Warrior's point of view, since I'm always supposed to be getting the first hits anyways. I also am an avid flag/unflagger as well, so again hard to tell.
That aside, I'm still experiencing the same stupid H/H shenanigans. Hey, at least I'm not pugging, amirite?
I will say, though, that targetting has become a bit of an issue. Before they would just always be attacking what I was attacking. But now there were frequent times where I had to call it.
Not too bad since all I have to do is press Ctrl+T, but it's still kinda disappointing.
That aside, I'm still experiencing the same stupid H/H shenanigans. Hey, at least I'm not pugging, amirite?
I will say, though, that targetting has become a bit of an issue. Before they would just always be attacking what I was attacking. But now there were frequent times where I had to call it.
Not too bad since all I have to do is press Ctrl+T, but it's still kinda disappointing.
Torabo
I have a slightly different H/H problem since the update in addition to the aggro range problem people have.
For some reason the heroes keep casting/canceling spells (or casting/moving and failing). Not exactly sure WHAT they're doing to fail the spells, but this is happening when there are no enemies within sight anywhere. (Or at least this is the only time I would notice it) I first noticed this when I was running across a mostly cleared map during a vanquish, and kept hearing the sound effect of failed casting, turned around, and saw the failed cast effect on top of my heroes... its like they're spamming spells and failing them on purpose...
For some reason the heroes keep casting/canceling spells (or casting/moving and failing). Not exactly sure WHAT they're doing to fail the spells, but this is happening when there are no enemies within sight anywhere. (Or at least this is the only time I would notice it) I first noticed this when I was running across a mostly cleared map during a vanquish, and kept hearing the sound effect of failed casting, turned around, and saw the failed cast effect on top of my heroes... its like they're spamming spells and failing them on purpose...
Sakura Az
I was doing Duncan NM today with some alliancers and for the life of me i could not get gwen to cast Visions of Regret on Duncan, she would cast Empathy just fine, but i couldn't even force her to cast visions on any mode, duncan targeted or not.
and having to wand everything to make the heros attack is kinda annoying as well, i had to switch back to useing a spear instead of the sword i normaly use on my monk.
and having to wand everything to make the heros attack is kinda annoying as well, i had to switch back to useing a spear instead of the sword i normaly use on my monk.
Numa Pompilius
My biggest problem so far has been that heros simply refuse to use some skills if I try to micro-manage them. I click the skill, and nothing happens; when I unclick it they start to do something else.
The forth fly
skill capping in ring of fire mission,at the beginning 2 of my hench run in to the big mob of murrsat at the start twice in a row,2nd time they were flagged behind me and they still ran in to the mob.
Sunjiang District-got to the end of mission to fight the constructs the melee hench i had with me ran in to the middle of the group of 4 constructs died in 5 secs
Sunjiang District-got to the end of mission to fight the constructs the melee hench i had with me ran in to the middle of the group of 4 constructs died in 5 secs