Syncing, is it against the rules?
phan
Whats wrong with "accidently" pressing enter battle with 3 guildies ?
just call me jimmy
Honestly, how long have any of you played? It is not simply pressing enter at the same time as your friends.
Step 1 press enter with your friends
Step 2 Cancel together when timer reaches 3 seconds
Step 3 press enter right after step 2
Voila 7 times out of 10 you are together.
Step 2, is what makes it abusing the system. That said it could easily be fixed by Anet, by making it when you cancel you have to wait until next cycle.
But just like everything in PVP they allow exploits, overpowered builds and abuse to go on for to long without fixing, or just don't bother.
Step 1 press enter with your friends
Step 2 Cancel together when timer reaches 3 seconds
Step 3 press enter right after step 2
Voila 7 times out of 10 you are together.
Step 2, is what makes it abusing the system. That said it could easily be fixed by Anet, by making it when you cancel you have to wait until next cycle.
But just like everything in PVP they allow exploits, overpowered builds and abuse to go on for to long without fixing, or just don't bother.
Chocobo1
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Originally Posted by just call me jimmy
Honestly, how long have any of you played? It is not simply pressing enter at the same time as your friends.
Step 1 press enter with your friends Step 2 Cancel together when timer reaches 3 seconds Step 3 press enter right after step 2 Voila 7 times out of 10 you are together. Step 2, is what makes it abusing the system. That said it could easily be fixed by Anet, by making it when you cancel you have to wait until next cycle. But just like everything in PVP they allow exploits, overpowered builds and abuse to go on for to long without fixing, or just don't bother. |
I've synced and that's the way we do it but wow are you way off. 7 out of 10? Someone else has said this and it's not true at all. I'd be lucky to get in my mates party 2 / 10 times. I know it's not just me being unlucky, the chances of syncing with your buddy is not 70% -_-;
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Taki
The definition of an exploit goes much deeper than your extremely limited or naive view. Recent example: the seven monk GvG squad was an exploit of the "Aggressive" feature Izzy so ingeniously invented. You might be surprised to find that it didn't involve any packet sniffing or code altering. Nor do many other 'exploits' for that matter
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Anyways, there's a difference between justifying syncing and saying it's not an exploit. We're discussing definitions here, not the righteousness of it. Drag your ad hominem crap elsewhere.
Phaern Majes
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Originally Posted by Chocobo1
I've synced and that's the way we do it but wow are you way off. 7 out of 10? Someone else has said this and it's not true at all. I'd be lucky to get in my mates party 2 / 10 times. I know it's not just me being unlucky, the chances of syncing with your buddy is not 70% -_-;
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Haha well it was for me, but my friends were Aussies, we played when the American districts were virtually dead.
Amy Awien
If A-Net has stated that this syncing not an exploit, or does not exist, then would that not be an indication that syncing is not against A-Net's intentions, and thus, it is not an exploit? You and me can not decide what their intentions with this feature are.
Taki, if the mechanics, the rules, of the game allow a certain overpowering approach, the way to deal with it is not by yelling 'exploit' and leaving it at that, but by fixing those mechanics.
Taki, if the mechanics, the rules, of the game allow a certain overpowering approach, the way to deal with it is not by yelling 'exploit' and leaving it at that, but by fixing those mechanics.
N1ghtstalker
it kills the purpose of RA
i once actually beat a synced team with a random team in RA
epic lulz imo
i once actually beat a synced team with a random team in RA
epic lulz imo
FrAnt1c??
Who cares, seriously, you cant prove it so meh...
kvndoom
RA is serious bidness.
Then again, it was about all I did in GW anymore before I quit...
Then again, it was about all I did in GW anymore before I quit...
Rak Orgon of Beowulf
its RA people what is a synching team gonna do...get a few glad points on 10 wins and some faction? this is the least of A-nets concerns...imo they have permaform set in their sites next.
Master Ketsu
The somewhat "official" definition of cheating according to most game developer's is - any deliberate exploit of a game to cause it to behave differently from originally intended to gain an upper hand - so yes, syncing is cheating. And yes, you can prove it. There is no other reason to be in some obscure Asian district with 3 other guildies when all of you have America and Europe as your home district.
I would suspect Anet see's it as cheating, but they don't really care to do anything because...its RA. Who cares. F*** I can win 10 in a row with an unyielding aura monk.
I would suspect Anet see's it as cheating, but they don't really care to do anything because...its RA. Who cares. F*** I can win 10 in a row with an unyielding aura monk.
Mr. Undisclosed
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Originally Posted by Master Ketsu
The somewhat "official" definition of cheating according to most game developer's is - any deliberate exploit of a game to cause it to behave differently from originally intended to gain an upper hand - so yes, syncing is cheating. And yes, you can prove it. There is no other reason to be in some obscure Asian district with 3 other guildies when all of you have America and Europe as your home district.
I would suspect Anet see's it as cheating, but don't really care to do anything because...its RA. Who cares. F*** I can win 10 in a row with an unyielding aura monk. |
Master Ketsu
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Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed
Curious who confirmed that RA isn't working as originally intended?
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Chocobo1
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Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker
it kills the purpose of RA
i once actually beat a synced team with a random team in RA epic lulz imo |
Crimso
I'd consider it an exploit. It's like if TA and RA sent players to the same maps, one side is a random selection of players usally with very little Synergy between the players builds(even sometimes you could be using the same hexes as another player). While the other set of players have a team build the compliments the skills from one character with another.
If you want to synch use TA. It's obvious if you are synching RA either you can't win unless you're using an organised build against 4 random people or you're exploiting the game for you own gain. It's called Random Arena's for a reason and that's that you don't know what your team will be.
Actually it's that you don't know who you will be paired up with, not who you're facing since it should be actual random teams(well not until you get 10 wins then you fight Team Arena teams), if that wasn't the case you'd get to fight TA teams in any match of RA.
If you want to synch use TA. It's obvious if you are synching RA either you can't win unless you're using an organised build against 4 random people or you're exploiting the game for you own gain. It's called Random Arena's for a reason and that's that you don't know what your team will be.
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Random Arenas implies also that you can't control what you're going to face. Sometimes, it'll be 4 guys that just bought the game. Sometimes, it's going to be a TA guild that got bored.
Life sucks, and then you die. Move along! |
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief
A loophole in programming isn't an exploit.
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Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief
An exploit is intentionally seeking out a loophole in programming and using it to gain a significant advantage by forcing code against itself.
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Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief
Since syncers are not altering code, packet sniffing, or using a convoluted method to do this, it cannot be considered an exploit. You can sync on accident, you cannot exploit on accident.
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Lack of 3rd party programs in process does not mean that thing you do is not exploit either. 40% enchant axes again. Again, anet disagrees with you.
Using your enlightening approach to classifying exploit, we still would have HoS keg bomb stuff and others happening.
Chocobo1
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Originally Posted by Crimso
I'd consider it an exploit. It's like if TA and RA sent players to the same maps, one side is a random selection of players usally with very little Synergy between the players builds(even sometimes you could be using the same hexes as another player). While the other set of players have a team build the compliments the skills from one character with another.
If you want to synch use TA. It's obvious if you are synching RA either you can't win unless you're using an organised build against 4 random people or you're exploiting the game for you own gain. It's called Random Arena's for a reason and that's that you don't know what your team will be. Actually it's that you don't know who you will be paired up with, not who you're facing since it should be actual random teams(well not until you get 10 wins then you fight Team Arena teams), if that wasn't the case you'd get to fight TA teams in any match of RA. |
Numa Pompilius
1) Of course it's an exploit. Any tactic used to play a game in such a way it was never intended to be played (in this case: bringing an organized team in to random arena) and which confers an unfair advantage (in this case: to spike the everliving sh!t out of monk-less random teams consisting of three assassins and a mesmer) is obviously exploiting. The key words for exploits aren't "packet sniffing" or "third party programs", they're "unintended" and "unfair advantage".
Hacks are not exploits; exploits are not hacks; both equal cheating in a multiplayer environment.
2) Of course it sodding works! Anyone who played more than a few matches during the double points weekend will have met synchers. You knew because you were suddenly facing organized 1-2-3-SPIKE teams in RA.
3) Of course it's low and cowardly! Even if you were to only get two players synched on the team that's still a huge, unfair, advantage. And cowardly not as in kiting, but cowardly as in bringing elite-skilled max-armored characters to Ascalon arena - an exploit ANet eventually stopped.
The whole point of synching is that it gives the syncher an unfair advantage over players playing the game normally.
Is it a huge problem? No, as synching takes effort, the synch teams are pretty few (the vast majority of RA players do NOT sync!), plus drop out when they reach TA (because they can't farm glad points efficiently there as the opposition is also organized) and have to start over again.
Is it a bannable offense? Not as far as I know, no.
Could ANet do something about it? Probably, by adding a one second delay at match start and then mixing players. Then again, this is the same ANet who claimed it was too difficult to sort the list of winners in rally beetle racing, so who knows.
WILL ANet do something about it? Almost certainly not. ANet listens to exactly the kind of guilds who synch in RA, and in any case don't consider any PvP mode except GvG to be real PvP.
Hacks are not exploits; exploits are not hacks; both equal cheating in a multiplayer environment.
2) Of course it sodding works! Anyone who played more than a few matches during the double points weekend will have met synchers. You knew because you were suddenly facing organized 1-2-3-SPIKE teams in RA.
3) Of course it's low and cowardly! Even if you were to only get two players synched on the team that's still a huge, unfair, advantage. And cowardly not as in kiting, but cowardly as in bringing elite-skilled max-armored characters to Ascalon arena - an exploit ANet eventually stopped.
The whole point of synching is that it gives the syncher an unfair advantage over players playing the game normally.
Is it a huge problem? No, as synching takes effort, the synch teams are pretty few (the vast majority of RA players do NOT sync!), plus drop out when they reach TA (because they can't farm glad points efficiently there as the opposition is also organized) and have to start over again.
Is it a bannable offense? Not as far as I know, no.
Could ANet do something about it? Probably, by adding a one second delay at match start and then mixing players. Then again, this is the same ANet who claimed it was too difficult to sort the list of winners in rally beetle racing, so who knows.
WILL ANet do something about it? Almost certainly not. ANet listens to exactly the kind of guilds who synch in RA, and in any case don't consider any PvP mode except GvG to be real PvP.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
WILL ANet do something about it? Almost certainly not. ANet listens to exactly the kind of guilds who synch in RA, and in any case don't consider any PvP mode except GvG to be real PvP.
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PS: When the game is balanced for a certain kind of play, other kinds of play aren't going to be taken seriously. That would, in fact, be everything that's not organized team play.
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by Avarre
ANet is far more likely to listen to the horde of mediocre gamers that feel obligated to have everything. See: everything since 2006.
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Well, OK, they are, but they're elite multimillionaire mediocre players.
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Avarre
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
I disagree. Elite multimillionaire farmers in elite multimillionaire guilds are not a "horde of mediocre gamers".
Well, OK, they are, but they're elite multimillionaire mediocre players. |
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As far as PvP issues go, this is incredibly low priority, largely because nothing is actually broken - the system groups players who enter RA into groups. I'd call syncing system abuse more than an exploit, but that's all semantics.
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by Avarre
nowhere is it explicitly stated that your randomly selected opponents will be random in the manner you prefer.
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zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Avarre
As far as PvP issues go, this is incredibly low priority, largely because nothing is actually broken - the system groups players who enter RA into groups. I'd call syncing system abuse more than an exploit, but that's all semantics.
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Sync AB joining? less than RA-ish in scale of it being problem, people notice and don't care enough to qq about it on guru. FA/JQ, people care even less.
Syncing HA for Fame (two teams alternating in /resigning if they meet in underworld)
Syncing rated guild battles to "transfer" ratings and/or easy champ points (and do same with HB) I imagine two guilds with about same rating would be able to give each other a lot of champ points without loosing much rating (unless sync fails and they have to fight.).
lord of all tyria
It could well be an exploit, but it has pretty much no lasting consequence as I just click enter again once I've lost. Thus, I do not care.
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by lord of all tyria
It could well be an exploit, but it has pretty much no lasting consequence as I just click enter again once I've lost. Thus, I do not care.
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Avarre
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
But that's the problem: my opponents are not randomly selected. They're using a programming glitch to obtain an unfair advantage; this is what makes it different from using FOTM builds.
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Syncing rated guild battles to "transfer" ratings and/or easy champ points (and do same with HB) I imagine two guilds with about same rating would be able to give each other a lot of champ points without loosing much rating (unless sync fails and they have to fight.).
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makosi
Being able to circumvent the 'random' aspect of Random Arenas is undoubtedly an exploitation of the programming in an attempt to benefit oneself and cause a hindrance to others. Some might say 'griefing'.
The issue here is that Anet probably don't want to police such behaviour due to a number of factors:
-Limited staff/staff hours to deal with such grievances,
-Low priority probably due to the inferiority of RA in terms of PvP gameplay,
-Inability to clearly distinguish who happened to be in the same team as their guildies and who planned to sync,
-The fact that syncing does not mean auto-win (despite the theoretical advantages).
Yes, it sucks big-time to be defeated at your 7/8/9th consecutive by 4 clearly synchronized guild members with complementing builds but after all of this time there is nothing likely to be done about it.
The moral of the story is that you're encouraged and free to go ahead and abuse it because there are no penalties for doing so.
The issue here is that Anet probably don't want to police such behaviour due to a number of factors:
-Limited staff/staff hours to deal with such grievances,
-Low priority probably due to the inferiority of RA in terms of PvP gameplay,
-Inability to clearly distinguish who happened to be in the same team as their guildies and who planned to sync,
-The fact that syncing does not mean auto-win (despite the theoretical advantages).
Yes, it sucks big-time to be defeated at your 7/8/9th consecutive by 4 clearly synchronized guild members with complementing builds but after all of this time there is nothing likely to be done about it.
The moral of the story is that you're encouraged and free to go ahead and abuse it because there are no penalties for doing so.
IKNOW
It's an exploit. Otherwise it would be called sync arena.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by IKNOW
It's an exploit. Otherwise it would be called sync arena.
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Yeah, that's not much help.
(I know it's not the same thing, let me make my joke)
Crimso
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Ursan was an exploit, because otherwise it would be called Bear versus Environment.
Yeah, that's not much help. |
Lyle2000
I think I may have a reason why Anet says syncing does not exist. And as you would expect it has to do with the random choice. Lets think about how this works.
Every 30 seconds a RA match begins. The people who are in this match are chosen from everyone who clicked "Enter Battle" in the previous 30 seconds. The RA code then randomly pics players 1 at a time and assigns them to a team.
Knowing this having every one click join together does make it possible for you to all be on the same team, but its not becuase of some bug, its simple probibility.
For example in the last 30 seconds 12 people clicked "Enter Battle". 4 of them are part of a preset team. If you think about it, it is impossible that they all end up on different teams.
Basicly they are tacking advantage of probability. Just like buying multiple raffle tickets in a drawing. What makes in noticable in RA is the smaller number of people that they are mixed with for the random assignments.
I would bet that the exact simultaneous pressing of the button by a group has no impact. I am willing to bet that if they started at the exact 30 second mark and one of them pressed the button every 7 seconds that they would have the same chance of being on the same team as they would if they all clicked at the exact same time.
The only way areana net could stop this is to make it against the rules for people who know each other to press the "Enter Battle" button in the same 30 seconds.
Every 30 seconds a RA match begins. The people who are in this match are chosen from everyone who clicked "Enter Battle" in the previous 30 seconds. The RA code then randomly pics players 1 at a time and assigns them to a team.
Knowing this having every one click join together does make it possible for you to all be on the same team, but its not becuase of some bug, its simple probibility.
For example in the last 30 seconds 12 people clicked "Enter Battle". 4 of them are part of a preset team. If you think about it, it is impossible that they all end up on different teams.
Basicly they are tacking advantage of probability. Just like buying multiple raffle tickets in a drawing. What makes in noticable in RA is the smaller number of people that they are mixed with for the random assignments.
I would bet that the exact simultaneous pressing of the button by a group has no impact. I am willing to bet that if they started at the exact 30 second mark and one of them pressed the button every 7 seconds that they would have the same chance of being on the same team as they would if they all clicked at the exact same time.
The only way areana net could stop this is to make it against the rules for people who know each other to press the "Enter Battle" button in the same 30 seconds.
I Is Special
.......Why are people defending Syncing?...
Abedeus
Because... it makes Random Arenas NOT random.
isamu kurosawa
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Originally Posted by I Is Special
.......Why are people defending Syncing?...
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The discussion as whether or not it is considered an exploit.
w00t!
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Originally Posted by Lyle2000
I think I may have a reason why Anet says syncing does not exist. And as you would expect it has to do with the random choice. Lets think about how this works.
Every 30 seconds a RA match begins. The people who are in this match are chosen from everyone who clicked "Enter Battle" in the previous 30 seconds. The RA code then randomly pics players 1 at a time and assigns them to a team. Knowing this having every one click join together does make it possible for you to all be on the same team, but its not becuase of some bug, its simple probibility. For example in the last 30 seconds 12 people clicked "Enter Battle". 4 of them are part of a preset team. If you think about it, it is impossible that they all end up on different teams. Basicly they are tacking advantage of probability. Just like buying multiple raffle tickets in a drawing. What makes in noticable in RA is the smaller number of people that they are mixed with for the random assignments. I would bet that the exact simultaneous pressing of the button by a group has no impact. I am willing to bet that if they started at the exact 30 second mark and one of them pressed the button every 7 seconds that they would have the same chance of being on the same team as they would if they all clicked at the exact same time. The only way areana net could stop this is to make it against the rules for people who know each other to press the "Enter Battle" button in the same 30 seconds. |
Syncing is a player behavior, not a programming glitch, as you stated so well above.
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by Lyle2000
I
Every 30 seconds a RA match begins. The people who are in this match are chosen from everyone who clicked "Enter Battle" in the previous 30 seconds. The RA code then randomly pics players 1 at a time and assigns them to a team. |
Because you do not know how many have entered before you and the queue is divided into teams of four, there's no guarantee even a perfect enter-cancel-enter will place all four of you in the same team, but you're likely to be grouped with at least 1-2 mates.
There doesn't seem to be any intentional randomization taking place, if there was synching wouldn't exist - and it does.
jaximus
i think its funny how people get so worked up about this whole thing. you cant honestly tell me that the people who are complaining about it havent tried it before or the people that didnt know about it are trying it now. yeah its randomized and yeah timing the entrance helps a bit, but theres not 100% chance so its a bit advantageous but not to a point where a-net will do anything about it. what i find most funny is people half of the posts on here (meaning guru as a whole) are about how leet people are or how they 'farm glads.' if they are so good, how come they cant beat 'synced' teams? as i see it, ra is for people that want to pvp and dont have guildies/friends online at the time or dont have enough that are good enough to win in ta/ha/gvg. so those people should go into ta with random people and get rocked by the ta guild teams? why when they can have fun and potentially be on the same team with a friend in ra. also i would assume 90% +/- 10% (me kindly saying all of you) that are complaining about how unfair it is either a. wouldnt live against a truly random team anyway and use a 'synced' opponent as an excuse for poor skills, or b. are extremely good at pvp and find it actually offensive to the game you like. i personally am dead center on the issue because yeah i dont like getting beat up by a synced team (even though the next time i face them i know what they are gonna do and stop it) but i cant say i dont enjoy the long streaks i get when i have a synced partner.
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by I Is Special
.......Why are people defending Syncing?...
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I mean really, all of you are getting worked up for nothing.
Musei Karasu
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Syncing rated guild battles to "transfer" ratings and/or easy champ points (and do same with HB) I imagine two guilds with about same rating would be able to give each other a lot of champ points without loosing much rating (unless sync fails and they have to fight.).
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Lyle2000
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Synching suggests that this is NOT how teams are assembled in RA. Instead it seems as when you click "enter" you are placed in a queue, at the end of the counter the queues of all districts are concatenated, and the joint queue then divided into teams of fours.
Because you do not know how many have entered before you and the queue is divided into teams of four, there's no guarantee even a perfect enter-cancel-enter will place all four of you in the same team, but you're likely to be grouped with at least 1-2 mates. There doesn't seem to be any intentional randomization taking place, if there was synching wouldn't exist - and it does. |
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Originally Posted by lyle2000
For example in the last 30 seconds 12 people clicked "Enter Battle". 4 of them are part of a preset team. If you think about it, it is impossible that they all end up on different teams.
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When you can plan to join a RA game with player x, and it always works you are exploiting and the game is no longer random. (or everyone else has quite RA)