Thursday November 13, 2008 - update notes

Look..

We dont want to go back and do every single mission on NM and HM AGAIN.
Are books retroactive before the update? Yes.
Are books after the update retroactive? No.

If i forgot a HM dundeon book, and did every single dungeon on HM...can i go and get those pages inserted into my HM book for a small fee? YES.

If i Forgot (didnt have book till update) a book and did every single mission on NM and HM can i go and get those pages inserted into my book? NO.

Can you now fathom why we might be a little perturbed that we now have to go get a book, and do everything we already did..all over again, like we have already done... many, many, many times before.

This has nothing to do with money.
Fact is..the people this bothers are title seekers. People who spend lots of time and money into titles. I just put 500k into the Economy last weekend buying ToT bags.
If we were in this for the money...the money would just go back into the economy to be wasted on our precious titles.
I would gladly pay per page to have them work like the retroactive books we already had before the update.
To say this retroactive book has a Negative Effect on the Economy is Asinine.

So because we have been playing a long time, we are special and ANET should do something special for us. I bought the game with certain expectations and I have not been disappointed with what I have received.
Some people here seem to think that longevity deserves something, please tell National Grid I have been paying them for many, many years so my rates should be lower than someone who just started their service.

Are you listening, or like the others have you ignored the rest of the thread?

We want EQUALITY, which means that ANet does something that benefits us as well and not just new players or those who were previously too lazy to go through all the content.

Loyalty DOES deserve something and with many companies they do reward it. Like some banks will give special savings and loan rates to people who have been with them for a number of years.

So maybe you should look for a new energy provider.

Hmm... now i need to do those missions in NM (again) & HM (never bother with those) to get books filled and you need to do those missions - this sounds like equality to me. This seems to be fair for me. Rule is simple: wanna fill your books do missions (it doesn't matter if you are new or old player - ANET treats us equally).

We arent getting something cheaper than others, we are getting acknowledged for feats we have already accomplished.

The retroactive books should work the same in all campaigns.

How pray tell were we screwed over? Last I looked we can access hard mode and vanquish.

I didn't say anything about being special, Anet doing anything special for us OR that I have been playing for a long time (even though this month I've been already playing 3 whole years ;d). It's just that people doing thing for the first and every next time are getting MORE than we, even if we did it 7-8 times.

It's like working in a job for 3 years, getting a $800 a month and $100 for holidays, but a new guy comes in, gets $900 a month and another $900 for holidays. Wouldn't you be pissed off?

Thats my whole point. How are they getting more if we have access to it as well?

Just to complete your analogy: no I wouldn't be pissed off, because I would also be getting $900 a month and another $900 for holidays. And I would not ask my employer to pay me the difference for the months before, or even recognise that I am much more valued that the newcomer because of the years that I've spent in this company (after all I'm still their employee).

And to push your analogy one step ahead: shall I be privileged in the firm because I've been there longer, and so the new guy should get "something less" (which is equivalent to say that the veteran should get "more", whatever it is that you're requesting) simply because he's new? After all, maybe the new guy is much better than me (and bear in mind that being "veteran" is only a matter of having bought the game a long time ago, not even the number of hours will show how trully dedicated and loyal you are).

So you get it. Everyone gets rewards now new and old. You mean that the new player will now get rewards by doing books and you not?

I think you want retrospective "equality" which is almost non existent anywhere. I do not think it is justified as well.

It is like claiming that when salaries increase all the people who get paid lower amounts before should get all the differences now not only the increase....

You haven't had many jobs have you? This kind of thing happens all the time. My last job I was hired on starting at $.50 better per hour than some people who had been there two years with raises. Markets are different and different things happen at different times.

Pitiful analogy.

People who have been playing a long time have already accomplished this, whereas people who are going to accomplish this soon will get more gain out of it without redos. At least I think that's his point.

In other words, we've already done this. People who haven't will eventually do this. We got nothing extra for our contribution, for us to get it, we need to do it again.

But when it happens to you, you ARE pissed off.

Lex retro non agit, unless it benefits and doesn't harm any of the sides.

But you aren't getting those $900 for holidays. He is, you are not. And who cares you have done more, you know more and you ARE better than he is. You also have more experience and it's more sure you will work longer than a person that has been in the firm for a month or two.

Then what is? Amount of $ spent in online shop?

Okay, other analogy.

You made a complete study about something, not going to give examples. You get $400 for it.

And you made it in 4 copies, each with your own hands (requirement). And few new people come, give study results about the same thing, in some cases less (Masters < non-Masters analogy for missions). And every one of them got $800.

Ha-ha.

Try doing something 9 times if it takes at least 10 hours to finish. Good luck.

OMG this is so simple - why don't you get it?

For people WHO HAVENT ALREADY PLAYED ALL THE CONTENT this update gives them lots of stuff for just playing through as they would do anyway. For people WHO HAVE ALREADY PLAYED ALL THE CONTENT SEVERAL TIMES they're unlikely to want to do it again just to get a book filled.

Got it?

No, I mean that this update is designed for new/lazy players. They have to complete the campaigns anyway if they buy them, so if they do they get free stuff as well. But this doesn't benefit us because we've played them to death. What I'm saying is why doesn't ANet give something that benefits us without having to repeat what we've already done?

So what is it that newcomers to GW are NOW getting that veterans can't have?

You may know more, but maybe your employer knows better. Experience is important, but it's not counted in years. And it surely not means that you'll work longer, on the other hand you don't have to prove anything and may leave for better shores (while the new guy has to prove himself, or he'll be fired).

(FYI I'm not exploring the analogy for the sake of making fun of this discussion, I actually checked that everything I said was analog to the current situation in GW1...)

What about a combination of those, plus a vast quantity of facets of how you behave in-game and on fansites? Of course it's also a feeling and we can fight till death trying to prove we're more loyal than the other...

Your analogy is wrong, here's the correct one: you got $400 for your copy before, at a time when the other guys wouldn't get anything because they didn't do the job; now you and these guys are doing the job and getting $800 for it. (your mistake was to compare the same copy you'd give before and after, judging it by your own standards/amoung of work, but its value is dependent on time). How's that unfair?

(The "Ha-ha" is really childish...)

No one forced you to do protectors or guardians, and you should have had fun doing it, or you're not "playing a game". It's the same now, no one forces you to do books. Yet you want your past actions to be rewarded by current standards (many people have explained why it's wrong here, for example: what about asking rewards for in-game actions that would have been credited later during a week-end special event?)

EDIT:

Firstly I don't see how you can speak for "veterans" (how much should you have played to be a so-called "veteran"? 10,000h over 20months? 1,000h over 36months?). Secondly, it's not Anet's fault that you don't want to do it and yet ask for the same reward. As I said before, I'd agree to simply ask for a filled book for each title (protector, guardian). But getting so vocal about it (in particular treating people "idiot") is just plain wrong.

And to send you back your false over-generalisation: everyone that takes your side is a stupid/arrogant player. (hint, hint: this is not what I think, but I want to show you what you're doing, i.e. over-generalising; GW players are not "veteran" OR "new", and new is surely not equivalent to lazy...)

Because this is EQUALITY. Do the same thing as they do now and you'll get the same reward. EQUALITY is not "take something from the past, anything, and then balance it with something from now".

Assume title $900 and rewards from book $900.

You've already got $900 and now you will get only $900. I don't so now i'll get $900 + $900 = $1800. Yet still we get same amout of cash (tho i don't plan to do missions HM nor redo missions NM so it seems no cash for me, but that's mine choice). So ANET seems to be fair in this case.

So, by the logic of some of the people in this thread; everyone who didn't grow up with computers deserve to be compensated, since life is so much easier for our generation. Oh wait, thats not how life RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing works...

Computers aren't accomplishments, really though. You buy a computer, you get a feature that improves ones lifestyle and efficiency in some things, for example communication. Let's just say they are a trophy for ones work, much like every other thing you earn. Now, removing computers from the equation it's basically an evolution of technology which allows the future to become more efficient when it's been brought out. This is new, the entire reward is new aswell as that, but looking at the titles, the text part is old and the bigger reward is new.

New things with additional benefits at the same time is one thing.

Old things with additional benefits applied later on without retroactivity is another.

But they aren't technically "new things" they are evolutions of previous technology.

Then if they aren't new things, they mustn't have grew up with them, no?

loldrama
protip: the updates/price ratio is undefined

I don't know about you, but one book for each of my 9 characters who've completed Factions (plus the 10th, who hasn't) would put my Luxon title almost at the level needed to display it in the HoM...

Just a point regarding the speed of gaining faction by VQ versus pre-nerf HFFF.

So I just VQ'd Melandru's Hope (it seemed to have a lot of bosses on wiki, so boss bonus) . It took an hour and 10 using h/h and no consets. The faction reward was just over 20k, which means it's about equal with HFFF for me, subtracting the double faction bonus.

This isn't terrible, until you factor in that I was running 3 accounts at the same time in HFFF, effectively cutting 800ish hours worth of grind from my overall game life by leeching on my 2nd and 3rd account.

So, again, less grindy, how? The title still takes about 400 hours, only now it's 400hours x number of accounts. Funny, seems like more grind, not less.

/facepalm

So because you own 3 seperate accounts... you are mad because you need to do 3 times the work?

*sigh*

Getting rid of HFFF was one of the great parts of this update. Such a silly loophole/exploit shouldn't have been left as long in the game.

part of this update is to counter player who does HFFF, so that players will play the game instead of planting flags and zoning.

If you want the book to be retroactive, fine, first you have to give up all your HFFF points. then you get your retroactive faction which i guess is none, since you've never play the game in the first place to get those faction.

secondly, if you can do boring stuffs like HFFF over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over why can't you play the game over? LOL...

*sits back and watch if Arena Net cave in to this ridiculous request* or go mend something that need more attention *coughiwontsayitcough*

You mean revamping Sorrow's Furnace, Tombs, and the Titan Quests? Along with nerfing Shadow Form, nerfing the "600/smite" builds, fixing RA syncing, *goes on and on about farming spots and things needed to be revamped*...................


Oh, and some information on GW2.

I'm not about to go through 26 pages, but from I gathered in the first few, people seem to be concerned about getting Legendary Guardian to fill in their books. You don't. All you need to do is go through the missions. No bonus, no masters. I completed the Nightfalls NM and it took me about 2 hours.

Great update!

Can someone please confirm: I vanquished an area in Vabbi, defeating 165 enemies and it gave me 1,650 LB points. I thought it was 5 times the number of enemies, not 10. Although, I would take the 10!

The double weekend vanquishing bonus applies to reputation/faction. Have fun getting 100 kurz/lux per kill at the end of a vanquish. If you have the cap space you can get 30-45kish depending on what area you do. Its pretty badass.

I just have to comment on this whole retroactive thing. Anybody who thinks this is fair for people who have done the missions already so far has a pathetic argument. I seriously haven't seen a single good one, especially not Anet's argument.

All I can say is I can't wait for everybody to do the missions and get the rewards, only for Anet to once again add something to the game that requires people to do the missions AGAIN for new rewards. Seriously its hilarious that anybody thinks it is fair, and honestly I don't even care one way or the other because I wouldn't do the missions over again if they gave me infinity gold.

I'll gladly give away my... 2k faction? Because after getting 2k (I didn't have time or people to do AB) I got bored of HFFF already.

Anyway, enjoy doing all missions again, hundred times, so you may get the same reward as someone who has done it one time.

What if someone has done it already 6-7 times and is bored with every single piece of any of the missions?

before I forget, I thought the update was "retroactive" (word choice) otherwise, how do you explain the mysterious kurziks/luxons faction point that suddenly happens to be there in the Hero's panel?

I wouldn't care. My whole point to beating all the missions was to get the titles to put in my Hall of Monuments. Any added bonuses doesn't change the fact that I already beat them for their REAL purpose.

So after doing some Vanquishing (yeah I know - I just fainted too after hearing me say that! ) - I have to say - I am quite a fan of the new system.
THE BIG problem though is that I actually consider the DOUBLE reward to be sufficient. So once we go back to the normal reward - I think my interest in raising the title (at least by actively pursuing it - oh and the title in question is of course Luxy-groupie - the only title next to Lucky that I really like) will dwindle.

Seriously - the rewards should stay on the weekend level - otherwise they've just added new ways of grind.

I was not looking forward to HFFF to max the Kurzick/Luxon titles, so I'm VERY glad they made this change. Encouraging multiple ways to play the game to earn faction, LB, and SS points is terrific. Mind you, I like solo farming now and then if the rest of the guild is busy with other activities or if I need to be able to leave at the drop of a hat (always a possibility with younger kids at home) and don't want to zone out in the middle of a mission. However, I'd much rather earn SS and LB points by playing through the campaigns.

This also might spur interest in DoA, Deep, and Urgoz enough to finally get me to visit those places. As hard as they are, it didn't seem like the rewards were worth the time and effort spent, particularly when you could vanquish or solo farm and make just as much, if not more in terms of money, drops, and xp, and without as much dying and frustration. The changes they've made makes these elite dungeons more appealing now.

I appreciate all the work that was put into this update, too.

It's retroactive that way - not for getting pages of books back where you've done the mission.

Good god I hope ANet doesn't cave to this.

If they do, I promise to whine like hell about the characters I've re-rolled, that had also completed Factions, just to punish them.

No , this update is for all people. Everyone who does the missions now will get a reward. Nobody forced you or someone else to do them so many times or promised a reward . If you want the book pages , do the missions like everyone else. This update is to encourage all people to play again.

If I understood correctly you want a reward because you played more than someone else? Also people who didn't complete the campaign are not always new or lazy , I didn't complete factions since I hate the story, does this mean I'm lazy?

Yeah I know it totally bit Microsoft in the ass, and Google in the ass, and Walmart in the ass...and......oh wait it hasn't ever bitten any business in the ass outright because thats the fundamental basic rule of being a business in a Capitalist country: try to make the most money while keeping as much money as possible. A lot more people are happy with this update than there are complainers, which means they've kept a lot of money (future investments) while making more.

Making money doesn't bite businesses in the ass, bad decisions that affect a majority of consumers negatively, or stupid mistakes like bad management etc does.

All the hard work Linsey put into for this LOL, she could have just make 2 updates to make HFFF null and be done with it: the requirements for players to kill groups of Kurzicks and groups of Luxon for the related quest.