Thursday November 13, 2008 - update notes

Ok you idiot, I'm tired of this crap. Normally when complaints arise I actually defend ANet because they concern things like people crying over not being able to farm an area or something. I haven't bitched about ANet for a very long time, so don't you step in with your Nazi-style "you are with us or against us" crap.

She gave us jack! She was the one whining about the economy, when dozens of people such as myself has said that could have been fixed BY NOT GIVING ANY MONEY FOR BOOKS ALREADY EARNT.

If you're going to troll check your facts first.

1) don't understand people who already got the legendary vanquishing title for qq-ing, already have the title why do they still need the book?

2) retroactive can only work in my humble opinion on one condition, Faction Gained thru HFFF are calculated and minus from the account that wish to retroactive their book etc.

I'll add more when I think of it.

great update once again.

Wait a minute. I've always been told that titles are pointless, titles don't mean jack, titles don't equal ability. So, how's a title supposed to be a "reward"?

BTW, people doing LG now are getting it as well, along with significant rewards older players won't get unless they do everything again.

I don't understand what you are trying to say?

If you want the significant rewards then play the game. Its here, available for everyone, who's stopping you?

If you have achieved max title, why do you even need the book or significant reward? the book and its significant rewards help you in achieving the title?? yes or no? if you already have the titles why do you need the book to be retroactive?

What has this got to do with title being pointless?

I am a big fan of titles for your information.

Combined Wisdom and Treasure Hunter w00t!

If you read behind the lines of some posts, you'll see that some want recognition of their "title" of "veteran players". Typing /age is not enough, because they feel less "veteran" now that new players getting their LG title (same difficulty, different rewards) are getting something they didn't get (possibly "forcing" them to redo some missions to get a full book). Behind the dangerous (but inevitable) term of "fairness", some people want a form of "equality" where they are recognised as "superiors" because of what they did (i.e. get these rewards for their past LG title). I guess these "veteran" people feel inferior to new players because they only had the "fun" and not money/XP/factions.

This thread reminds me of the ones on the BMP (the "I didn't buy the game online and I want my cool weapons" kind of message), or even some more recents about Proph end-game or MOX. The worst part is when the QQer rationalises his QQing, discussing issues of fairness (some good points were made nevertheless) as if it were an inalienable right granted to them because they paid the same price for the game as people who buy it now (it would be of course "completely" different if they were paying monthly-fee).

I really, really hope that Linsey and the devs never hear about this QQing, apart from the part where people who had protector and guardian titles should get rewards, or Regina can explain why this is bad for the economy (no one has yet provided a link on her alleged message saying so).

everytime i don't do vanquishing during double vanquishing rewards weekend, after the weekend, can I QQ for to be compensated when I did do vanquishing after that?

[Sarcasm]
I protest for all the vanquishing I've done one week prior to this double vanquishing reward weekend!!!
I pretest to be compensated for all the kill captured before double exp points for skill capture is introduced


boy i have lots of things to protest that I've done when the game was different!
[/Sarcasm]

Page 2, post nr. 39.

Although there isn't such a thing as "bad for the economy". Because there is no economy to begin with.

Nothing. Already got two books filled while this thread keeps going. I had to do AGAIN things I've done multiple times before, without getting a reward that's being handed out now, because...

... a title is an achievement, not a reward.

BTW, I've both Legendary Guardian and Legendary Vanquisher. The title this reward could have helped me getting is a reputation title (the Kurzick one, to be specific). So, yes, I could have used a book I've already played for. It's unfair to penalize older players because they acomplished things before this update, expecially one that is so late and pretends to be grind-reducing... having people to play the same stuff over and over in order to improve a broken title.

To improve my Kurzick title:

- I'm supposed to do all the missions again, be them NM or HM, multiple times. Ok, but it did them at least once with my LG. Shouldn't I be able to pay to get ONE (1, one single) book filled, so that I (quoting from the NPC dialogue) "won't have to repeat all that I've already done"? That's what the fee was meant to be there for, ain't it? Or is that really just there for lazy people who can't waste a second to pick an empty book now and have their page filled when they're done?!

- Vanquish the same two or three areas I've already vanquished once when rewards were sensibly smaller. Ok, I could do this as well, but then again, I can't see how this is going to reduce grind. I'm repeating a useless activity - I've already achieved LV, what for? - just to get faction. That's GRIND, no matter how you call it.

Those are EVENTS, temporary changes, one-of-a-kind. We're talking about a PERMANENT change that came at least one or two years late, when most of the people here already have done what they're asked to do now to get some credit. Now they have to do it all again, for no apparent reason. Books are just a pityful attempt to disguise grinding.

yes and i want my elite skill captures experience points as well, it helps me get survivor!

PS: vanquishing isn't the only activity to gain faction.... come on, linsey updated so many ways to gain faction, pick one!

I liken this to the same fact that people come into my office to file for unemployment and gripe and complain because everything is in Austin instead of right there where THEY want it. I look at them and say well you can either use the method that is imposed or you can forget getting any unemployment benefits. They are in a lose situation any other way they look at it. It's not going to change and they will follow the rules or they won't get any benefits plain and simple so there is no reason complaining or whinning about it to ME. Much the same way it is here. Nobody really cares if you're upset or don't like it. Anet does what it thinks is best for the WHOLE population not just YOU or a few of you or a handful of you...the WHOLE population and these are the ways it is right now so live with it or you don't get any BENEFITS! Capish?

And you troll would be one of those in my office that it would take a very long time to get your benefits. We have ways of dealing with overly irate or idiotic acting customers. Funny that fax didn't go through that has all your information on it for unemployment benefits, awwww it will take 3 more weeks to resubmit and verify all your employment history. Oh nooooes something happened to the fax again.....3 more weeks...we'll get it right this time promise (fingers crossed behind back lol)

It's not just me. There's a lot of players complaining here, for a reason (they could have satisfied ANYONE, not just MOST OF the population, and this whole thread is about reasonable solutions they could have implemented to prevent this). And not caring about your upset customers isn't a great thing in any business.

I'm living with it BTW, it's a game I really enjoy. I'll probably have my things (my BENEFITS) done anyway. I just don't think this approach is fair and this puts a dent in the high regard I used to have about developers. I'm not whining, I'm expressing my opinion about this update, and I'm bringing arguments to my position. It's my right, as much as it's your right to disagree, unless you try to shut my mouth by telling I should "stop whining".

"Here" is Guru, whose active bunch may be in the order of 1,000 which may be less than 1% of the GW population (or if you want to be very conservative you say 5%). And how many people complaining in this thread? 20? 50? (very conservative estimate) So, are you sure about your "a lot"?

Ah, so you're one of those sad public-sector employees who gets their jollies out of making other people's lives a misery. You do realise that a lot of people who you're slagging off probably pay your salary through their taxes.

I find it interesting that the abuse is being dealt out by ANet's defenders.

So much for the "Nazi-style "you are with us or against us" crap" (sic)!

Oh don't pick on individual words. I'm not trying to censor anyone and defending ANet is hardly a crime or abusive term to use. Have I said anyone who backs them are like people claiming benefit or whatever?

Have a sense of proportion. Your repeated comments against people who are not satisfied with this change is getting ridiculous.

I see more people complaining than the people pissed off by complaints here in this thread. So, in proportion, that's a lot to me.

This thread is hilarious! Nothing better than seeing a bunch of "veterans" bitching about a paltry sum of gold and uneeded faction, while they sit on their piles of ectos, wearing their maxed title tracks!

I have no ectoes in my storage or any valuable materials. The only maxed titles I have are Protectors on main character.

Any amount of gold is a good amount of gold.

Almost as hilarious as retarded assumptions

Actually the best thing is reading the comments of idiots who don't bother to read the thread. Because if they had they'd know that people who are complaining generally:

a) say they don't want the money;
b) have indicated they don't have all maxed titles;
c) don't have pots of money.

I don't understand why are people so bound to these books. It's not like they max out your kurzick title , they only give 1/80 of the max title or something close , while there are many other ways to get the faction.

Also LB and Sunspear titles.

Besides if they don't mean that much why are so many people screaming their heads off insisting that people not be able to benefit from getting extra title points?

Possibly because 1/80 of the faction needed is still 1/80th the faction you do not need to redo?

1/80 of 10 Million is a helluva lot and we aren't talking about 2 or 3 hours worth of AB to get it back. Thats why people want them retro'ed , to try and get a little further on in the complete and utter grindfest Allegiance titles.

I love the update.

but i still don't understand why people who already have LG QQing about the books.
I am the first one who posted that title at screen shot forum few days after it was added to the game.
I don't think i got any disadvantage about the book. most players with GWAMM should have many stacks of ecto why QQ for 10k gold from a book :P
in the other hand I have new reasons to play with my other char again bcos i want to read, fill each page of the books. I know i can read those from wiki but I want to enjoy playing this game

Well, all of my 14 character have gone through Factions, one is also LG. So it's 15 books for me, not 1/80...

Guess there's a lot of players in this situation.

I think it might have something to with with the principal of the thing.

Because the main bones of contention are faction [not money] and the need to redo past missions once again in both NM and HM to complete books that have either been done once already or are currently partially done.

I like this update, but ofcourse I haven't really done anything in HM yet and deleted most of my chars... So ya.

I can understand why people are complaining though.

I really like this update ^^

One slight issue though: My chars have done both luxon and kurz sides, so now Ive got a bunch of extra faction in both, but I can only get rewards for one since every time you support one faction 5k of the other faction gets taken away... Would be nice if we could waive that restriction for the next week or so while people redeem the added faction from this update.

BTW why do people here assume that Legendary Guardians are also rich GWAMMs sitting on piles of ectos?

I'm neither rich, nor GWAMM and I don't have even one single ecto right now, nor a FoW set or chaos gloves for any of my toons.

Go go stereotypes.

Are all of those factors exempt from fairness anyway?

And you say it's not just envy... My eye...

I realize that. Its obvious its more about it being "unfair" than the actual rewards. Just seems kinda petty to make a big stink over something added to make life easier for newer players. Not all of us have been here 3+ years.

Because they feel better if they turn us into hate-figures in their own little minds. No one would mock a poor granny being robbed, but they would a rich bitch.

Why should just the new players be given rewards/bonuses/etc? I've made this point before, it's like the banks that give great deals on their products but only for new customers. Why are long-term players ignored?

If ANet simply wants to rope in more players and doesn't give a damn about anyone who has already paid up, maybe we won't buy Guild Wars 2 when it comes out. Give it a year or so and then we can get all the cool extras. Or perhaps we'll find a new game to enjoy and won't play Guild Wars 2 at all.

People aren't making a big stink over making it easier for newer players. People are making a big stink over the fact that ANet keeps screwing over veteran players that have been supporting the game for years. There is a difference between the two, and anyone who has taken the time to read this thread can see that. Let's just hope that GW2 at least doesn't follow the same philosophies of ignoring veteran players or else everyone who played GW and will be moving to GW2 are going to get screwed.

lol I smell a guru moderator on the way. Time to close this thread since there isn't anymore discussion about the subject matter only masked attacks against those who are against anyones opinion. lol Most all of these fall into that after a few pages.

I honestly don't know. All I see people arguing and progress has been made. All these recent post could just sorted out on PP.

Tough luck dude.
I hope AN could work something out.

To make this thread more ridicoulous but still on topic:

1. When I started gw I had to do create a pve toon, then level it up, get weapons and only then I could do some high pvp. They introduced pvp charrs in the middle of 2005. I think it was unfair and all of you should also do all this pve grind before being able to do any pvp other than ascalon and kamadan arena. Say hi to the ones who had to level up their toons for pvp more than once....

2. With the same logic: I had to do some missions 5-6 times because there were bugs there, they should not remove them because new players can complete them easily without a need to retry. I think it is unfair and those bugs should stay there.

etc etc

Now every one gets the same rewards from performing the same stuff. If I do prot title I will get the same reward as you. Because it was different one week ago so what? The newbie who did it then also got nothing more. This is to give an incentive to do it again since most people had their titles anyway.

Same in life. Salaries increase with time, same with prices etc etc. There is an inflation even in game. Rewards need to go up to be more attractive. Look at it as after doing it 10 times you have now some more benefits for doing it again. If you think that the rewards should be always the same your are against the development... Examples from car industry were brilliant. Actually we can add examples from almost every industry. My favourite will be with new medicines. Why the hell now people can just take a simple cheap pill when I had to take many expensive injections? It is so unfair..... Why shouild it be different in a video game?

I am for this update eventhough I sit on many protector and guardian titles and I am for further increase in any reward system there in GW.

I made no attack on you for disagreeing with my opinion only the manner in which you decided to state it.

There are many people in this thread who have the same opinion as you but who have stated that in a reasonable manner without the need to make general and silly assumptions which have nothing to add the discussion and are patently untrue.

I'm going to make an assumption here, and assume that most of the “veterans” “complaining” about the books not being retroactive with respect to faction (as stated before, the money reward is not the issue here) are people with greater than 25 titles and less than 30, people who are working towards gwamm via a couple of more “playable” titles. I realize that this assumption could be entirely false, but in my particular case, the veterans I'm talking about are in this boat, myself included. We're just your average group of schmucks who play this game for the social aspect and to have a good time, who enjoy (on the whole) the product that Anet provided, and who are looking for things to do in the game in the absence of new content.

Before all the passive aggressive Anet sycophants start foaming at the mouth and spilling their kool-aid, I'd like to clarify something. When I am speaking of “veterans”, the particular veterans I happen to be talking about are most of my guildies. So when you suggest that only a few ppl here are “complaining”, while that may be true here on these forums, like other people have suggested, these forums are representative of only a small fraction of the community. Part of that (the fact that more people don't speak up on the forums, especially in the case of my guildies) is due to the fact that dissenting opinions here are generally descended upon by the trolls (moderators included) and they feel that it isn't a good use of time to worry about what the loudmouths on either side of an opinion are blathering on about. It doesn't however mean that their thoughts and opinions are any less valid, especially as customers of Anet.

I'm not trying to suggest that either side is completely right or completely wrong, but those that attempt to invalidate concerns thru abuse and fearmongering and whatever skewed political tactics is just silly imo and doesn't contribute towards a greater understanding by the Anet reps that read these forums. We have limited outlets with which to have discussions with Anet, and when discourse is destroyed by trolls who have whatever agenda they want to push, in the grand scheme of things, they aren't helping. The condescending and patronizing attitudes, especially those which come from the mods (who most would “assume” should be upholding the standards and be a steward who fosters a productive forum community, but what do I know), only really foster an environment where the outcome of any discussion results in such gems as “ur ghey” “qq moar” and other witty helpful things that assist Anet in shaping an opinion of what the community really thinks.

All soapboxing aside, when I spoke earlier of the fact that “veterans” are unable to go for the survivor title, despite what you may have interpreted that as, I meant those who were “born” before the survivor title was a twinkle in Anet's eye. The fact that it's unavailable to my main toon, who was born in july 05, that he's somehow disqualified from that title because the survivor title was created as an afterthought, hmm, what does that remind me of... oh yeah, age discrimination. Color it as you will, but that is what it is. It should have been made available to us so called veterans the day it was implemented, be it as a one time reset marker for the death counts, or as a separate title only available to those who happened to be excluded during the original roll out, or however a “fair” implementation could have been conceived. That's my really only sore spot with that title, that its unavailable to some, only due to the age of the toon which some of us older players chose as their main, well before titles were introduced.

Hai I'm almost 4 maxed titles on all characters, want to chat?

Two scenarios:

New player without any effort finished the campaign, gets tons of faction/exp/gold.
Old players that did all of this 3-4 or more times (Factions - at least 6 times, including deleted characters) don't get a squat.

Fair fair fair.