Thursday November 13, 2008 - update notes

Exactly, it's a reward, not something like a title. it's entirely optional, will get you only a few gold/faction. If you want the reward you will have to work for it

OMG TIS UPDATE IS TEH SUXXORZ I H8Z IT WAI THEY NAUT GIVES ME MOAR FREE STUFFZ QQQQQQQQQQQ

Seriously, this update is (for the most part) the shit. Quit your whining. I actually now have a spark of motivation to drag a mule through one of the campaigns.

Decreasing the grind was fine,but punishing those with legendary guardian already really was a kick in the proverbials

Dissapointed with the way that they gave retroactive lux and kurzik faction at the same time (effectively wasting half) rather than letting us speak to an npc to get it. Other than that *thumbs up*

You think title grinders enjoyed what they did? They put in the hard effort to wear a title. I am not a title grinder and therefore I shouldn't expect to get maxed titles anytime soon. This update just takes that away from them. Average players should get average titles.

Hmm only disapointment is I already got protector of cantha and I really don't want to redo all faction missions... Same with nightfall.

But the resuts of titles atleast rep titles have rewards, they are called skills or other bonuses which is why everyone QQed over the grind, and titles where entirely optional once you got past the low lvls that where required in some spots, which they could have just removed, and same can be said about the grind QQers, if they wanted the reward they would have done it, but instead anet made grinding for the people who QQed about it easier, and made the people who already were sucking it up and doing the grinding to do more grinding to get their just reward

if you don't enjoy it DON'T DO IT.

seriously, it is a GAME, it was made for FUN, if you don't find something fun, you don't do it......

anything forcing them self to do something which they are not finding fun need to quit playing games all together :/ since games were made for fun

And what did Anet take away form them? Nothing, this is all a matter of epeen, since new players will be more motivated to do these titles, their exclusiveness will drop. Anyway let's watch as amber/jade raise in price (finally), granite is gonna be worth even more XD

I wish that was true, because if it was all the people that did QQ about the title grinding would have quit and this update never would have happened and every would be fine with it

stop acting like they in some way crushed your accomplishment good lord

YAY! This i am by far the most happy about.

The faction updates are good, but giving the faction for both sides at the same time is an oversight.

As well not making the books retroactive was a bad idea. For everyone who has Legendary Guardian thats a smack to the face. A big one. The influx to the economy would be a one time spike. And a broad one at that. If its like the HM books for the dungeons, 12k for all of them. Lets assume its 20k since there are more missions. So thats 60k HM + 30k NM + 20k maybe for two Flameseeker books? So were talking about 110k for having already beaten the entire game twice? Sure, ok thats a decent spike but thats assuming you have legendary guardian. I'm sure you can pull up a quick stat on how many actually have the title, and roughly calculate how much money will be introduced into the game. Thats where you introduce the buying pages. 500g a page sound fair? You can cut the books value in half that way. Which is fair cuz if you don't have the title you are going to travel with the book when you do the quests anyway. So the only ppl who should need to buy the pages are people who have already finished protector.

Sure i understand we're talking about pratically giving people money, but you can't say it would effect the economy as hard as the months of Ursan, DoA glitching, and now SF farming? No way. Just no way.

Now don't get me wrong. I love the update. But not being able to buy the book pages was a pretty bad idea cuz there is no way in hell I'm playing through the campaign again just to say i've completed the book and got the reward. After about ten times x3 for each campaign, the shit gets old.

Might wanna read what I say before you get all fired up.

Ok...I'll give my 2 cents on a few QQ issues I saw in this thread right now.

1: PvP update was last week. Shut up. Wait for next month.
2: Getting both kurz and luxon faction...are you a kurzick or a luxon? Spend faction for the title you are working on. Do AB/missions/etc etc etc for the other one later when you work on that title.
3: This isn't making either title easier to get. Why? Because HFFF was getting people to max kurz/lux just as fast. All this did was make it MORE FUN TO GET, and to get people back into the missions/vanquishing/etc instead of lagging up Lutgardis and 6-clicking their way to max kurz. It will very likely revitalize the campaigns. It's that simple. They put replayability back into their game so people can stay busy for GW2. They had to have something to show on their reports, and keeping players around for GW2, giving them easier ways to gain titles that will give "something" in GW2 is smart business. At least you didn't pay for the change.
4: I have legendary guardian on my warrior. I don't know the money/exp payout of the books, but I can imagine it would be some insane number for every one of them. I'll do the missions again on my other characters, and help out with my warrior when a guildie needs help. It's that easy.

what accomplishment? you just proved you have no life if you can devote the time to get titles on multiple characters.


Anyways, much <3 to Linsey for the update. Seems alot of thought went into it, get some well deserved rest

Books not retroactive is kind of a letdown, but w/e. May I suggest making it so that it is retroactive, but add the option of a 1 time filling the entire book for the price equal to the gold reward? Thus those that did the missions get their books filled and get w/e other rewards the book offers, and there's no net change in the gold in the economy. Really, I HIGHLY doubt economy was the reason for not making it retroactive...simple fix really, cost = reward, no gain, no loss.

Although I can see why people might get pissed about losing faction due to the update, I can't really see how it can be avoided, unless the factions gets added directly to the title instead of "given" as faction points, and I'm not even sure if that's possible, but a fix on that would've been excellent.

Although it isn't exactly what my dream title change would be (make all titles except carto/vanq/guardian/skill hunter account based), it is still awesome and full of win. d('.')

I'll have to check this out more over the weekend though.

ok, I will pick out the most obvious bit in your post to which I was replying too.

That is implying that title grinders don't enjoy grinding titles

and if you don't enjoy doing something then don't do it. If title grinders hate grinding titles, then they shouldn't be doing it since the game is supposed to be fun, not a chore, not something they don't enjoy and not work or anything like that.

so yes I did read your post.

Wow, again, ANet fails....

The big promised update is pretty, well, let's say mostly, idiotic....

The biggest impact: The Hfff nerf. To be honest, i don't know why Anet had a problem with Hfff in the first place.
It was a way for people to get Kurzick/Luxon points quickly and easily ... that's not wrong in itself as the max faction needed to achieve max rank was off the scale anyway.
So people not willing to spend ages Hfff'ing could achieve the lower ranks (< r4) in a few days ...
those that went for the high ranks (> r6) had to spend several days doing that farm, which bored like nothing else in the game.

Max rank could only be achieved by those that were dedicated enough to keep the farm going for several months (got my r12 in 4 months with 4 hrs hfffing straight per day), or by those who accumulated faction by various activities over a long time.

What did players get for no longer being able to Hfff? One time mission rewards with a petty 1ooo points (wow .. on a scale of 1o.ooo.ooo, 1ooo is like ... nothing?), non-retroactive books that give you some faction and gold when being turned in ( lol? so i did all missions on normal and hard mode, and i can't let them fill my books for a fee? I do the same amount of work and dont get a reward someone else would get by doing that stuff after the update .... because it could damage the economy? tell me dear "community relations managers" ... what economy? You mean that thing where an overfarmed pink glob is the main currency?), an AB reward boost (yay!), vanquishing rewards and, last and least, "elite" missions rewards... did it ever occur to you that those have been dead for a long time and will stay dead as ppl didn't stop doing them because they got no faction reward QQ ...

AB boost is actually decent ... but with players quitting, and wait times being horrible alrdy, the inability to donate one kind of faction and keeping the other, the inability to donate faction for a guesting guild in order to get the double reward benefit ... in the long run, this is gonna fail as well.

Vanquishing rewards .. lol? i suspect you kill like 300-400 enemies per zone (non retroactive again ... me, who vanquished everything, didnt get anything again ... thx for that.. damaging the "title-economy" again?), which would make it a 15oo-2ooo points per area, which is approx 1-2hrs work ... lol? getting that with hfff took me like 6 minutes. That much for wasting time, eh? Please take a break....

Rewards for Challenge missions buffed .. guess i'm not going into those, as they have been dead and never rlly important for 98% of the players anyway. Dead things stay dead. End.

The increase in the faction cap is useless as well. If ppl were too poor to donate while waiting for an entry to the AB for the 15th time, well, then ofc, faction cap is so gonna make it up to you, you know? As if donating whenever you had 5k was that hard, eh?

So they took hfff and gave us ... rewards for more time consuming things, that eventually make getting the title harder in the long run? And even more unachieveable for the casual player? GG Anet.

Now, they gave us different methods to gain SS and LB-Points ... just one thing:
"No, i won't do the tiresome standard SS/LB-Run anymore, i prefer doing the NF-Storyline 500 times so i can get my max title. Or do 2 hrs full of questing to get the same amount i could get within 20 minutes of doing the standard farm runs..."
Those non-retroactive rewards might get newbies a better head off start ... they might set out with 15k points in either title instead of 8k at the end of the campaign now. Still, they end up doing the same old run over and over again. You might have saved people an hour, nothing more. Created a big hype tho, that's a good trade.

Summoning stones .. lol, did they ever make a difference in an alrdy overly easy and broken PvE content? Useless addition once again.

Wisdom/Treasure hunter titles ... like srsly, whoever went for a noteworthy rank in those titles anyway made sure he got the points on that character anyway.
All you did was spare ppl the agony of depositing golds in the storage and swapping chars before identing them... useless.
Oh sure, now some characters people never play may have 1 more title towards Kind of a big deal ... ty anet, because titles, especially on hardly played characters, was all i was ever hoping for.
Oh, sure, people with for example r3 treasure hunter on 3 different chars might be close to r4 now overall.
Still, was being close to 3% higher lockpick retain chance worth all the hype, worth all those "sleepless days"?

The best thing in this update is that they finally replaced "teleport" with "shadow step"
No more noobs asking "what iz shadow step?"

All in all ... a super hyped update ... what it really was is a super pointless update that does in no way address the main concerns of the players and won't stop guild wars' decline.

That book thing is still ****ing stupid. Why make the EotN books retroactive but not the ones for the full campaigns? I've completed Factions and Nightfall with 9 of my 10 characters, and Prophecies with 3, I'm not doing all that again.

To quote something said in KC, "wow so I have to re-do all of Factions to fill out a book that would have been complete if it was there in the first place".

What replayability? If you h/h it one way, you can h/h it the same way again, if the actualy storyline had replayability i don't think so many ppl would get ran as far as they could, they would try to do it

Uh I don't think you realize that achievments aren't meant to be all fun, you are supposed to work for them and be able to show off your ability. More often than not, doing fun things in life doesn't give you any beneifts. Hard work does.

How is this a kick to anybody? EVERYBODY, whether you have legendary guardian or just bought the game today is on the same playing field when it comes to getting rewards for books. They aren't "punishing" you they are putting you on a level playing field.

Seriously, I CAN'T believe how many people are complaing that just because I beat Phrophecies on this character 3 years ago, I deserve a free 50k when I log in today. Actually, it is Guru. I take that back. I'm not surprised.

I think most of the update seems good. It is a little hard to evaluate the individual point values at this point,- but that's minor.
This will probably get a few people fired up enough to keep them happy and playing the game for the next year.

Not a lot for those of us with GWAMM,- but then again I didn't expect there would be.

Only thing I'm really missing, is a bonus for Lucky, which I haven't maxed yet. :P

uhh lol, just because its an achievement, doesn't mean it isn't fun.

seriously, it's a game it is for fun, end of.

:/ No point arguing with someone who just wants to ezmode everything.

Great update!
Alot of people complaining about the "lost" faction, if oyu had faction before the update and turned it in you burned an equal amout of the opposite faction, nothing changed here. I really don't see the problem...

There are alot of books but I am just wondering what you people are keeping in your storage? I have 10 toons and all the storage tabs and have no storage problems. You want more storage space? Throw out some of that useless crap you have not used in months... I really don't see the problem here.

And I guess I should throw in some QQ as it seems you are not allowed to post on guru without it, I was at 27 maxed titles before the update, I am still at 27 maxed titles after the update.
WHERE THE HECK IS MY FREE GWAMM ANET!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great update dev team. I can honestly say I am very impressed with the way you have made the changes.

any info on the rewards for the new books yet?

Exactly. I agree.

Yet somehow that "fun" accomplishment stops being fun just because you don't get free virtual money along with it? That's a dumb arguement. But we still won't be able to stop the QQs.

It's not ezmote, you clearly have a vision in wich Guild Wars is not a game, and your vision is terribly wrong (the "you" here is generic)

ANet staff, take a break. This is a great update in my opinion. Are there things I don't like? Sure, but it was well worth the wait. I intend to try out the new changes soon.

Great update IMO. Well thought out. This is possibly the best thing since Sliced Ursan. owait

A player would never accumulate faction that way however, and avoid the problem entirely. That's why it's problematic.

Is it an oversight? or intentional?

That's what we need an answer from Anet. I'm fine either way, but don't want to cash in the faction yet, if they intended us to be able to get both.

Honestly, guys, just please, stop complaining. This didn't "give away" titles to people. You still have to work for things to be max. So please, please, PLEASE, just stop complaining and arguing over NOTHING.

It's a game, have fun with what you are given, if you don't like what ANet intends for the game (i.e., as little grind as possible) then you are playing the wrong game. Yes some things done with this update were bad (increasing K/L cap over 30k, not able to fill out the books ONE time after doing the missions, and just plain and simply not removing consumables), but there is still things where you have to actually work for things. So please, just put it to rest.

I'm not going to argue with any of you, I'm just asking to stop arguing. This update might not be to your expectations or to your liking, but it was still a lot of work. If you are going to argue against this, then I want you to code an update to fix the issues you see that most people will like (and not just what YOU will like!). Do that, and I will let you rant all you want, until then, shut the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing hell up!

-finds it funny that the two main arguers/trolls have flaming heads as avatars-

Assuming the cap raising for AB, FA, JQ, and whatnot are 1 time events, the maximum will add up to: 70k, unless there is a cap under that (hope there is).

alright back to dota, i actually was hoping some of this update would give me something to do in gw but grind, owell +1 vanq today

Wait, wait, wait. So I logged in to find 30k each of Luxon and Kurz faction, which means if I want to use any of it, I'll lose some of the other. That just annoys me.

79 Zaishen keys, You dont hear me complaining... Good Update!!!! x



I didnt lose anything...

I can only say one thing....the deliberate kick in the balls to those of us with legendary guardian is absolutely pathetic.

We put all that time into your game when it had tremendously lousy rewards for it, and you can't give the rewards to us now "because it might negatively affect the economy"...this is complete baloney.

And no, I'm sure as hell not doing it over again.

aaannnddd more tourny points....well guess not all things are screwed.

Meh. Does anyone really want to do Legendary Gaurdian again? Gimme retroactive book, pls/kthx.

To be fair Azazel, the ranting and raving on this thread is relatively mild compared to some update threads. Some have had FAR more epic 'OMGZ wtf A.netz" reactions. I remember one update thread was closed literally with an hour and a half because of trolls. I think too many people (even the ones complaining) are happy about the wisdom/treasure hunter titles to notice (you can't deny that is a good idea, since everybody just moved their golds and IDed them on one character anyway).

Edit: No ONE "lost" any faction when they spend on one side vs the other. Everyone who logged on today suddenly got a free ~30k faction. Just because you didn't get to get a free ~60k faction people still complain... sigh. It is still a NET GAIN PEOPLE!

If one of those two is me, which i am assuming it is nice burn, that was cleaver, on a side note yes this took alot of work, and i do appreciate the attempt, however the books rly need to be 1 time retroactive, thats my main issue with this update, and the l/k faction thing, i'm thinking they made it so who had to choose which 1 you wanted to have it go on, no big deal w/e, but yet still no endgame material

you are absolutely right, which is why i have not complained about it, however 30k? i only got 18k on both, but hey it was still 3 donates and 1 skill

Great job A-NET. I'm sure this update took a long time to create, but your hard work shows and is appreciated.

I don't want to complain, but using the economy as a defense for not making the books retro? Heck, the update gave me 120k in Z keys!