Cry of Pain/Ray of Judgment - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Horus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

www.godtguild.com

Blades Of Burning Shadows [GoDT]-leader

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 18:36 - 1

Well, it's quite sad to see all "elite" areas being crowded by gimmick 123 builds again... Ursan anyone? Just that this time Ursan is not the case, but [Ray of Judgment] and MAINLY [Cry of Pain].

These two skills are obviously overpowered and would need only small changed each.

Cry of Pain:

n.1 remove aoe effect, so skill only damages one foe at time.

Quote:

Full: Interrupt target foe's skill. If that foe was suffering from a Mesmer hex, that foe takes 65...93 damage.

n.2 keep aoe effect, but keep it within limits.

Quote:

Full: Interrupt target foe's skill. If that foe was suffering from a Mesmer hex, that foe and additional 0..3..5 foes in the area take 65...93 damage.

<-- for every two sunspear ranks, this skill deals damage to 1 additional foe in area.

Anyway, seeing how a single skill kills mobs of 40+ foes with an ease, this surely needs a nerf. Above are 2 suggestion i came up with, feel free to suggest yours.

Ray of Judgment:

This one is quite simple - add scatter effect to this skill.

P.S.: if simmilar thread is already open somewhere, feel free to lock this one, but i couldnt find one if it exists.

hydromorphone

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2008

USA

28 Jan 2009 at 18:44 - 2

/sign No. 1 (single target/require hex) + scatter for [Cry of Pain]
/sign No. 1 (single target) + scatter for [Ray of Judgment]

Either of these may not be likely because they are not as widespread as [Ursan Blessing] was in its prime. However, swing away! These skills make GW players dumber by abusing them instead of coming up with more creative options.

Athrun Feya

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Oxford, UK

Hiding From Shi Tters [Shh]

28 Jan 2009 at 19:04 - 3

/signed for RoJ
RoJ obviously needs to cause scatter - PBAoE with AoE degen. Some more bad skill coding anet wont iron out until it matters (much like UA was).

/notsigned for cry of pain.
This skill was originally meant to empower the pve mesmer, so tie it to Fast Casting or throw a 3 second cast time on it and get rid of the interrupt (making it more in line with skills like Feast of Corruption and Energy Surge).

Comments like this are golden.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guardian of dragon temple

Well, it's quite sad to see all "elite" areas being crowded by gimmick 123 builds again... Ursan anyone?

yes, people are forming for these teams. but, unlike ursan, the number of successful teams doesn't match the number entering - meaning there must be far more to it than the perceived "123".

trankle

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

BloodBath & Beyond

Rt/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:04 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by guardian of dragon temple

n.1 remove aoe effect, so skill only damages one foe at time.

"Full: Interrupt target foe's skill. If that foe was suffering from a Mesmer hex, that foe takes 65...93 damage."

So, it would be exactly like [Power Spike], except it would cost more, do less damage, take up a PvE slot, and require a mesmer hex? The only benefit being the interrupt of a skill, instead of just a spell or chant?

I don't see that being very popular.

Ariena Najea

Silence and Motion

Join Date: Jul 2006

Buffalo NY

New Horizon [NH]

28 Jan 2009 at 19:05 - 5

I agree completely with fixing [[Ray of Judgment], if not for PvE then for the sake of Hero Battles... If people want to use it for its whole duration, that's why we have [[Earthen Shackles]!

As for [[Cry of Pain], no no no no no no no NO no no! Other than absolutely destroying poor bosses that get in their way, Mesmers have very few options as far as effective builds go in PvE. Cry of Pain is a good staple, it just needs to be made so it can't be spammed. This is very simple, just keep everything as it is now, but require an interrupt for damage to occur (and possibly remove the need for a prior Mesmer hex.) This eliminates the skill in gimmick spike builds, but retains its utility when used by a few players in the party.

Horus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

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Blades Of Burning Shadows [GoDT]-leader

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:08 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

So, it would be exactly like [Power Spike], except it would cost more, do less damage, take up a PvE slot, and require a mesmer hex? The only benefit being the interrupt of a skill, instead of just a spell or chant?
I don't see that being very popular.

and it would have on-conditional damage

as power spike HAS to interupt to have any effect at all.

And yes, rather average skill that isn't highly popular than highly overpowered skill that in combination with Ether nightmare or any other mesmer hex kills a mob of 40-50 foes in a matter of 2seconds.

Horus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

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Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:14 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

Mesmers have very few options as far as effective builds go in PvE.

hope you realize this skill in most cases isnt even used by mesmers

It's sunspear skill, thus any profession can use it at same efficiency, makes it quite a core profession skill as it is not depending on anything related to mesmers at all except for a hex that can be put in any build anyway. Been doing Cryway Kathadrax with couple of warrior cryers, they are "worst" casters in game, yet they still were able to spam this one as well as any other mesmer could.

patrona

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

Belgium

none.

Me/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:14 - 8

/sign No. 2 on CoP - it will won't kill CoP, as it will still be effective. You just can't mass lure everything

as for RoJ... /sign

kostolomac

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

Serbia

Me/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:18 - 9

/signed for RoJ
/notsigned for CoP
Instead make it so that CoP removes the hex after , like [Shatter Delusions] but AoE. But still that would a hard nerf too.

Quote:

Well, it's quite sad to see all "elite" areas being crowded by gimmick 123 builds again

This was the case before ursan and these skills, and will be the case after them.

Quote:

yes, people are forming for these teams. but, unlike ursan, the number of successful teams doesn't match the number entering - meaning there must be far more to it than the perceived "123".

Very true.

Quote:

And yes, rather average skill that isn't highly popular than highly overpowered skill that in combination with Ether nightmare or any other mesmer hex kills a mob of 40-50 foes in a matter of 2seconds.

That's because there are multiple cryers , if you played as a single cryer the damage ain't that impresive.

Razon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2008

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:21 - 10

/signed..

This game is totally broken due you can defeat one of the hardest areas of the whole game just by spamming 1-2-3 and so on, even ursan was better since cryway is twice, if not eaven three or four times faster than it.

Notsigned on RoJ, monks need to have something else to do than protting or healing.

JASON626

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:21 - 11

to me pvp places like JQ and AB are flawed. look how the npcs are all bunched up. Any aoe bombing builds solo shrines. anet needs to spread them out so it takes a couple of aoe skills to hit everyone. I'm surprised how they made RoJ work myself but npc positioning really annoys me more.

kostolomac

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

Serbia

Me/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:25 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razon

This game is totally broken due you can defeat one of the hardest areas of the whole game just by spamming 1-2-3 and so on, even ursan was better since cryway is twice, if not eaven three or four times faster than it.

Only highly experienced guilds can finish DoA in less than an hour ([icu] I think managed that , sorry for misspelling the tag) , pugs fail more than half of the time. And if you even played cryway you'll see that it's a bit more than just 1-2-3.

Horus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

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Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:25 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athrun Feya

yes, people are forming for these teams. but, unlike ursan, the number of successful teams doesn't match the number entering - meaning there must be far more to it than the perceived "123".

you're right, i forgot about 4.

1. Deep Freeze
2. Ether Nightmare
3. Cry of Pain
4. BOOOOOOOOOOM

JKB

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:28 - 14

Ray of Judgement should cause scatter. It's a wonder they haven't added it already.

The nerf you mentioned for Cry of Pain is poorly thought out and is not really an option though.
I agree with kostolomac,that it should either work like [[Shatter Delusions] and remove one mesmer hex while keepeing all other functions, or be like [[Ancestor's Rage (pve)] and just be skill that damages after a 1 second delay and won't stack with other copies.

dark4190

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

IGN: Serial Experiments

Farm people, not drops

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:29 - 15

I think you should all stop your "crying"

Zidane Ortef

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2006

Martinsburg, WV

Scions of Carver [SCAR]/Trinity Of The Ascended [ToA]

W/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:32 - 16

RoJ cause scatter on a few different things so its not just a cast and watch skill I've seen foes run away from it.

They have been watching Cry of Pain for months, Cry is a gimmick but it does take a bit more concentration on the teams part for it to be used right if people don't pay attention things run and scatter and then you have nothing left to do but die and try again.

The game is slowing down and making its end. And anything that isn't retardedly stupid and keeps people playing this game Anet is going to keep, just like they have done with perma they nerfed SF to the point where its still usable to be continually maintained but at the cost of watching your energy and not mindlessly pressing buttons to kill things.

Why not sit back enjoy the game and just play it because it will soon see its end. Nobody forces cryway or rojway they are all personal choices if you choose not to play them and enjoy physway or just whatever way let people play what they want to after all this is just a game.

Razon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2008

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:41 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Only highly experienced guilds can finish DoA in less than an hour ([icu] I think managed that , sorry for misspelling the tag) , pugs fail more than half of the time. And if you even played cryway you'll see that it's a bit more than just 1-2-3.

Its a bit more and bit less spamming 123 - im not just talking about DoA, but about cryway generally. For example in VSF if you have a hex caller, you just press T buttom and worry about your echos and cop spam. In DoA the tanks basically worry about 50% of the things, you just stay awake and cry well. And the whole run still stays quite easy compared to ursan. iCU is not the only guild that makes faster than 1h DoA fullruns btw. It just needs really experienced peoples with brains.

trankle

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

BloodBath & Beyond

Rt/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:41 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by guardian of dragon temple

and it would have on-conditional damage

as power spike HAS to interupt to have any effect at all.

I'm fairly certain that "If that foe was suffering from a Mesmer hex" is in fact a condition.

Shadowhaze

Nothing, tra la la?

Join Date: Oct 2007

28 Jan 2009 at 19:41 - 19

lol. If that's the case, they ought not have nerfed *ahemnotgoingtosay* and let everyone play it if they enjoyed it. Can go both ways.

Are they over-powered? Sure. I've also seen foes run from RoJ also, but it depends on where they are. As for Cry, maybe change it as others have said - less spamable, longer recharge, something of the like.

But in the end, it's not really up to us, so not much else to say. Enjoy it while you can I guess before the next nerf.

jiggles

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

N/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:41 - 20

theres a reason CoP is a pve only skill. Just add scatter to RoJ and its all gravy

Horus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

www.godtguild.com

Blades Of Burning Shadows [GoDT]-leader

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 19:42 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zidane Ortef

Nobody forces cryway or rojway they are all personal choices if you choose not to play them and enjoy physway or just whatever way let people play what they want to after all this is just a game.

Tbh same we could say for old Ursan; if you dont want to play it, then dont. But like current CoP it ws highly over powered and thus needed a nerf. Actually i can remember ppl being against a nerf at 1st, but few months many ppl realized how UB impacted this game. Same is with CoP - it let's you farm elite areas even faster than with UB and in many cases with even lower chances to wipe or die as you have a perma tanking for you.

Catacomb of Kathadrax used to be one of hardest dungeons, but then came cryway and it's doable in approx 25mins with real ease.

Daisuko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

California

[Vr]

E/Me

28 Jan 2009 at 19:51 - 22

Meh, you've got the right idea, but you're going the wrong way. The RIGHT way for them to balance Cry of Pain is to remove the mesmer hex requirement, and instead require that you interrupt a spell to inflict damage.

This change would make it like Cry of Frustration... Difference being Single-interrupt instead of interrupt en masse, and higher damage. This would render it useless against non-caster foes, and require actual thinking/timing to trigger damage. (And be harder to do so in HM due to faster cast times)

Akolo

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

V??xj??, Sweden

Stop Stealing [agro]

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 20:17 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by guardian of dragon temple

Same is with CoP - it let's you farm elite areas even faster than with UB and in many cases with even lower chances to wipe or die as you have a perma tanking for you.

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...347384&page=13

just to say that the teams getting fast times thanks to an overpowered gimmick, obviously isnt relying on an overpowered gimmick.

oh and like athrun previously touched, this isnt anything like the ursan era.

With ursan anyone could just put up UB on a bar and be failproof and get a decent time.

with cry of pain its different... 50% of the pugs fail, and those who do manage are 30-90 min slower than it should be.
oh and what do you think happens if perma dies or looses aggro (were talking about pugs here, spikes will take long enough for the mobs to run rampage on casters most of the time)

to be honest, cry of pain isnt more overpowered than (most) other pve skills, if anything is overpowered its the "spike" you make of it. unless you want to nerf anything that can potentially be used as a spike(and if you checked the link theres many ways of making a spike), theres not much you can do about this "problem".

anyway /sign for making roj scatter as its only natural

/your idea for cop doesnt quite cut it, however if someone finds a good idea to "fix" it then ill gladly sign it.

MirkoTeran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Slovenia

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 20:20 - 24

/Signed for both. I would probably hit them a bit harder tho.

Athrun Feya

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Oxford, UK

Hiding From Shi Tters [Shh]

28 Jan 2009 at 20:20 - 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by guardian of dragon temple

you're right, i forgot about 4.

1. Deep Freeze
2. Ether Nightmare
3. Cry of Pain
4. BOOOOOOOOOOM

Again, another golden comment from this strange perceived view of what cryway can actually achieve. Generally the people with this view have not experienced playing in this kind of team.

where on guru/anywhere is there evidence to suggest inexperienced people are rolling elite missions with cryway? there isn't.

Zodiac Meteor

Imma Firin Mah Rojway!

Join Date: Aug 2008

At the Mac Store laughing at people that walk out with anything.

E/Mo

28 Jan 2009 at 20:22 - 26

/signed

Cry of pain makes things way to easy. The PBAoE is big and there is no running from it.

Betrayer of Wind

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2008

Brazil

Agents of Indecision[meh]

Me/

28 Jan 2009 at 20:32 - 27

imo the way to actually fix CoP is making the dmg conditional on the interrupt,not on a hex(needs to interrupt target to deals the aoe dmg,instead of a mesmer hex and no interrupt at all)
That'd fix all the problem with the CoP big spikes,theres no way u can interrupt 5+ diferent targets twice on HM especially with a perma/obby tank which makes all spells fail.
it'd be an elite version of cry of frustration but without the aoe interrupt so i think it'd be good

Silverhand

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Virtual Benchwarmers [VB]

28 Jan 2009 at 20:33 - 28

these builds are all just what is the most powerful
if it wasnt this it would be some other gimmick build
cryway is nothing like ursan
ursan was basically impossible to fail at while cryway requires decent people
besides ursan runs could complete fow and uw in fast times regardless of how bad their ursan was
and roj can cause scatter, but in many groups you do not notice, because your tank throws grasping earth and suddenly people move 90% slower
oh and one more thing, i doubt they will change this considering that the uwsc/fowsc are still going and they can complete those missions much faster than cryway or rojway

Horus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

www.godtguild.com

Blades Of Burning Shadows [GoDT]-leader

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 20:36 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athrun Feya

where on guru/anywhere is there evidence to suggest inexperienced people are rolling elite missions with cryway? there isn't.

it doesn't have to write anywhere, i know it from experience >_>

Rpoblem isn't only elite areas, it's also some non elite dungeons that are supposed to be hard. Like i said about Kathadrax, anyone can do it in about 25-35mins, really doesnt matter how good he is.. yes, i used to farm this one a lot and have done it with many different ppl, never failed, if anything there happened, it was that full run took few mins longer, only one run 40mins+

There are many more areas that can be done with really next to no effort in very short time using cryway.

Chieftain Heavyhand

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2006

wpg

28 Jan 2009 at 20:42 - 30

/not signed

This is just starting to get ridiculous.

Guru is filled with the largest gathering of haters I've ever seen in one place.

If any team build is shown to the community that can beat DoA then one of you haters instantly comes on here wanting something nerfed.

Haters keep on hating, maybe one day we'll all be a miserable as you.

Anet-

I think the best thing to do would be to buff all the skills you guys have knee capped back to their "unbalanced" forms and let us enjoy the game, if it isn't obvious by now it should be that these hating [email protected] are never going to be happy until they have ruined everyone’s fun and this game.

Akolo

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

V??xj??, Sweden

Stop Stealing [agro]

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 20:42 - 31

any dungeons are really easy even with hero hench so you cant really use that as an example imo

oh and i think most ppl here want things nerfed so that their preferred playstyle will be the only way to play the game... at least that is what it looks like and how far you have been taking things.

Horus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

www.godtguild.com

Blades Of Burning Shadows [GoDT]-leader

Mo/

28 Jan 2009 at 20:57 - 32

tbh there are only 3 skills i ever wanted to see nerfed: UB(done), SF(semi-nerfed) and CoP. I'm not trying to suggest a nerf for tis because i hate it to death, but because i've been using it and know it's effect and how redicuolously(bad spelling ftw

) easy many things because of CoP are and how little effort it takes to use this team build...

Say whatever you want, but a skill that kills unlimited ammount of foes(as many as you can possibly find at time) in a matter of 2 secs(counting in a delay between start and end of spike for those who spike badly) is honestly overpowered. And if i add that using this skill takes no effort, we know what the time is

Daisuko

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

California

[Vr]

E/Me

28 Jan 2009 at 21:00 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

/signed

Cry of pain makes things way to easy. The PBAoE is big and there is no running from it.

Since when is cry of pain "Point-blank"?

Elite God

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2007

The Island Below Shing Jea Monastary

Forever Knights

R/

28 Jan 2009 at 21:09 - 34

Um how about remove CoP

Make it a Mesmer Only Fast Casting skill

and make a new SS skill

Mesmers already are "unwanted" in PvE.

Don't make it harder on them

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

28 Jan 2009 at 21:21 - 35

/signed for RoJ
/notsigned for CoP.

mage767

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

LOVE

Me/E

28 Jan 2009 at 21:21 - 36

The mother of all change that will make the game balanced is the removal of Shadow form on permas. Then, pretty much cry of pain and ROJ would need to be careful because a perfect tank would not be available.

JKB

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/

28 Jan 2009 at 21:24 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chieftain Heavyhand

I think the best thing to do would be to buff all the skills you guys have knee capped back to their "unbalanced" forms and let us enjoy the game, if it isn't obvious by now it should be that these hating [email protected] are never going to be happy until they have ruined everyone’s fun and this game.

The people asking for nerfs are usually the people that care about the game the most. Overpowered skills can be fun the first few times, but in the long run it gets boring and if you've already completed the "hardest" parts of the game with these overpowered skills you usually won't do them again unless you do it purely for the rewards, and then you're not really playing that game for a good reason anymore.

Rewards should be proportionate to performance. That's why Ursan was ultimately nerfed and why CoP should be nerfed, since the only thing that actually require any thought is the tanking and possibly the calling.

In my opinion, the best thing they could do is disable all PvE skills and consumables in HM and make tanking impossible (since it's one of the most retarded game mechanics in history) by making the enemies switch target when it takes no damage, among other things. I know it will never happen, but I could always wish for it.

Shadowmoon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/A

N/

28 Jan 2009 at 22:08 - 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by guardian of dragon temple

tbh there are only 3 skills i ever wanted to see nerfed: UB(done), SF(semi-nerfed) and CoP.

Find it funny SY or TNTF isn't on your list, but I guess you must play heavy physicals. I'll be ready for a CoP nerf when there a nerf to the imbagon.

cognophile

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

USA

28 Jan 2009 at 22:14 - 39

/signed for RoJ
/notsigned for CoP

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

28 Jan 2009 at 22:16 - 40

Seriously if you dont like the skill dont use them. And dont give me this whole "if its there im going to use I shouldnt have to gimp myself" shit. It YOUR choice if you want to use them or not. it is OUR choice if we want to use them. If you dont like them dont use them plain and simple. I for the most part dont use them because I dont do pugs. I H/H everything but if people want to use them let them and stfu about nerfing everything ffs.