Cry of Pain/Ray of Judgment

Then play by yourself or quit. That's what everyone else is doing. That or they play these gimmick builds. Or they do the unthinkable and actually find people who play the game the way they want to play it. Perish the thought that you actually work to find like-minded individuals rather than trying to force it on everyone else so you can not-pug some more.

tyla, you were IN a guild that did exactly that..but you never played. So why are you bitching?

Cop is fine but roj needs a nerf

I would like to see 10 sec Roj 60 Fire dmg per second and at the end all foes start burning for 5 seconds and for the cry of pain .. you need an illusion and domination hex to trigger the effect

If you read through this thread then most of the people advocating that CoP stays the same like the idea of OP skills that allow them to decimate an area with no skill required at all it also happens to be (in the main) the very people that are doing nothing but SC areas in the game.

The sad thing is without these OP skills you will see areas depopulate again as these players simply fail running a balance or similar build in these areas, unless it is the mind numbing run of "perma got aggro" "hex call" "echo" "CoP" "CoP" then these people will simply give up on an area as "it takes too long" meaning it takes a bit of skill and takes longer than the 20-30 minutes that they can concentrate for

The really sad thing is that the majority of these elite SC players use consets in cryway to accomplish their elite speedclear too, which is just the ultimate fail imo.

Basically there should be 2 editions of GW, GW where these OP skills are nerfed and GW crayola edition with a big "I Win" button so players such as these can enter an area, press "I Win" everything dies and the big chest pops out and rewards them with (to steal a phrase) "Phat Lewt" as long as they receive shiny things for doing as little as possible then they are happy and surely in their mind a 1min SC makes them "leet"

I want CoP nerfed for 3 reasons,
1, as I said above GW is becoming stagnant and has absolutely no challenge left because of these skills
2, in the hope that people may learn to play their professions and that GW2 will not die because these do not have access to OP skills and shout from the rooftops how bad the games is as they can no longer SC (btw it isn't the game it is the fact you cannot play it)
3,that GW2 doesn't keep OP skills such as this and makes decent players stay away as it will just become a sham of a game.

cry of pain should keep the same functionality it has now but should be scaled to fastcasting much like seed and tntf scale to monk and paragon primaries. something like do 2..9 damage (based on sunspear rank) for each point of fast casting. this will make it very tough for a team of eles to use but keep mesmers viable.

Make Cry a skill so it cant be echo'd with [arcane echo] and isnt affected by [glyph of renewal]

Maybe people don't have enough time to do those Elite Areas either, and if GW has no challenge left just quit and stop ruining the fun for people like me who enjoy to be able to do things the fastest and best way possible, it doesn't make any sense not to do so otherwise IMO. I mean i switch it up and go physical way etc and still have fun, but when I have time... I have school, a GF, friends, and other stuff that comes before video games But i enjoy to be able to get things done fast and simple. Your in my alliance so this isnt meant to QQ in any way im just saying we don't have to ruin the fun for everyone.

*sigh*

from AC to guru, back to AC and here on guru we are again... *some may know what i'm talking about*

not rly i have AC off 24/7 to avoid QQ about stuff like this. That and Physical/Cryway Battles XD

This is going off topic.

Anyhow Cry of pain should be if target foe is suffering from a mesmer hex that foe and all foes in area take 30-50 dmg and have a deep wound for 5-15 seconds

all that does is simply prove my point

so you enjoy pressing the OP button and completing an area... you think that is fun? wow maybe you like to play tetris with just square blocks too?

Yes I am part of the Alliance but it doesn't alter my perception that OP skills kill the game, they dumb it down to idiot levels that means once the nerf hits people have lost the ability to make a balanced team and run it and because it takes longer than 30 minutes then people no longer play the area
people lose interest because they are used to the EASY way, there is absolutely no accomplishment to cryway through any area as it takes no skill.

the only reason for people running cryway is that it is simple and allows you to repeatedly farm an area over and over in the hope that you get the shiny from the chest, there is no other reason for it.

The game used to be about completing areas as a party and a sense of actually accomplishing something, atm it is about how fast you can clear an area using OP bar, Conset and perma runners where possible... yet for some this is an acheivement... sad how things have changed

All hail DOA without pve skills

sorry, but not all pve only skills are as overpowered as CoP, you miss the point here.

What i was trying to say Old fashioned way is fun.
With a Bonder a tank and some Nukers

Play by yourself or quit? This is an online game giving the choice of play with people or AI.

I were in a guild that did what I wished to do? Yeah, but I wasn't really that interested in PvE. Ironic, I know. Whether or not I was in a guild that abused physicals or cryway, I'm still arguing against it because I know this shit is just stupid. Believe it or not, I'd like to see most if not all options balanced with each other at a level where they don't complete HM "elite" areas within 2 minutes.

Go play some Guild Wars and quit contributing shit.

I Completely Agree with You Tyla.
Cryway is worse and way more overpowered then Ursanway.
Cryway isnt role playing anymore if you ask me.
Well going out with 2 Monks and 6 Tamed bears is.

On the other hand you don't have to complete them within 2 minutes.

People do that because they want to compete with other people - they want to have rarer weapons, the expensive armors, want to be able to brag about doing XXX place in XXX minutes.

This is a game. You get your private copy of it. What another person is doing, unless he is cheating/abusing other people is irrelevant.

Elite areas are Elite, because they require especial strategies to defeat! They aren't Elite because only a few can do them!

Elite areas aren't here to rank players - "That guy can do Urgoz", "That guy can do all areas", "that guy cant do any". That isn't what elite areas are about.

So people want to nerf skills to prevent people from doing that IS PLAIN STUPID.

Not exactly,

Poeple who dont use PvE skills complete the areas slower cause they dont want to grind for those titles and therefore have less money.
Its pretty annoying if you "farmed uw non pve skillway" for 4 months and you see a guy bragging he got FoW in 3 days cause he was doing non stop Cryway.
Its bad for the ingame economy as well cause prices of rares are falling apart.
Supply = High > Price = Low

You don't have to... but why not do it?

You can do that without Cryway, without physicals being buffed beyond sanity, without speedclear.

If it's a private copy, why is it changing for me? Why is it changing for everyone elses private copy? Why not ask for a change to it?

You mean you need to put X skill on Y character or you can't complete it at all?

They're not there to rank players, but for players of a higher skill level.

So wait, doing this will prevent people from doing that? I personally don't like several Cryway guilds because of their attitude and approach to thing, and vice versa. I somehow doubt that with what they've posted that they can't figure out some other way to abuse the game using the same tactics unless aggro management has somehow dissapeared.

I don't care what the price is. What you do, sell or buy is irrelevant.

I don't need to buy or sell anything to other players.

If every other player disappeared but my girl, I would play the game the same way.

Grinding is bad, in that you are right, though.

Stay on Topic !

I want [Ray of Judgment] for 3 second target foe and foes in the area take 75 fire damage after 3 seconds all foes in the area start burning for 7 seconds

Because I've a brain. So I do what is fun for me. I don't like auto-wins. So I don't.

This isnt going anywhere ... a well , CoP isnt autowin it requires thinking even more then a simple elementalist casting meteor shower

It isn't because PvE isn't competitive. Nerfing skills because they create imbalance between players on a non-competitive environment is dumb.

If you want to nerf RoJ because u believe it is a bug, that is fine. If you want to nerf RoJ because it makes the game easier for idiots, it is dumb because you aren't playing against them.

If you want to nerf CoP because it isn't a mesmer skill, thats ok. If you want to nerf it on the grounds that people are completing DoA, and so getting tormented weapons and otherwise wouldn't, its dumb because the existence of 1 or 100000000000 tormented weapons doesn't affect the game.

Balance in PvE is between professions - all professions should be equally useful. And that's it.

People always talking about the degradation of PvE - but look at mesmer - even without COP or AP-PvE skills nuking, its much better today due to [[Visions of regret] and [[Extend conditions].


Apparently without knocks I cant finish the Deep and without a skill to move to bodies or using rebirth (dunno if that one works) you can't finish urgoz. And that is by design.


What does it matter to you if I am a high skilled player or not? I'm not going to play with you anyway because I don't want (and nothing against you - just speaking in general terms).

And it isn't hard to see who is good or not - you just need to do a few missions with them and you can judge by yourself.

What is designed for players of a higher level of skill and with loads of time and commitment is GvG.

PvE is to be played with low commitment. You can't exactly have that if you need to find 8 people to do DoA with specific builds and coordination close to the level of GvG.

Elite areas are just there to make it GWs similar to WoW. Good thing they now allow heroes on the elite areas.

[Arcane Echo][Energy Surge] Doesnt require a hex woot

I did use [[energy surge] with my mesmer and [[Ineptitude].

And you know what? If they nerf cop, [[Shadow form] assassins with energy surgers mesmers, foc necros and rojs (if it doesn't cause scatter) can do the same.

In the balance pve thread down there, some guys just did deep almost as fast and not even used shadow form.

Who needs a perma sin if an [Obsidian Flesh] Tank is better in most situations?

GW is not becoming stagnant because of pve skills , it's becoming stagnant because there is no new content , so we all must replay the old content again and again and again... Also , challenge is very subjective , stop using this as a reason to nerf stuff so that you and a handful of people can remember "the good old days". The only way GW can be challenging like the first time you played it is if we get more content. Skill nerfs won't do anything to make the game challenging.

I prefer good old [[earth shaker] with a monk casting [[protective spirit], [[shield of absorption] and [[spirit bond].

If I was the creator of the game, I wouldn't have designed tanking skills, I wouldn't have introduced PvE-only skills, I wouldn't have introduced consumables.

On the other hand I would have split the changes between PvE and PvP, I would have fixed prices for every mods and upgrades (yes npc mod dude), runes and everything like that, I would have increased the rewards for replaying stuff like missions, I wouldn't have introduced environmental effects, I would have given mobs balanced builds, I would have made expansions with mobs with better builds using the new skills (not solo chapters), and so on.

Apparently, the game designers, also want the chance to learn with their mistakes and success and start again.

I hope they can bring in gws 2 what guild wars potential promised. I hope it feels like guild wars and not like WoW. I hope PvE will be PvE and not a competition between players to see who has the highest level or the rarest weapon. I hope you wont need to spend hours to find a full human party to do stuff. I hope gw 2 wont have potions.

Knockdowns allow you to deal damage to Aspects in The Deep, corpse transportation allows you to get past room three in Urgoz. One is something you'd be using quite often these days - Earthshaker, YMLaD etc, and is useful the entire time. The other is useful once and puts limitations on your skills entirely. Personally, I'd like to see this done some other way, but that's just me.

It's just an area built for players of a higher skill level - like Master or Elite ranked quests. Get better so you can do them. HM is the same thing, they're not meant for regular completion from a casual player, but if you want to stretch, get better and move on. With the low level capacity and emphasis on your equipment not mattering as much as choices in skills and methods, it's only logical as opposed to say WoW where you've got a shit ton of high powered weapons and levels to tread through. Same thing with the Ubers in
DII.

That's on a different level altogether. Might as well have a mid-point.

Well, people don't like GvG because they don't like taunts. PvE may take less skill, but it's got a difficulty ground for those who want more out of the PvE experience in terms of difficulty. Think games like Devil May Cry, you've got different difficulties.

And GW won't be similar to WoW like that unless they change the levels and equipment too.

That's what I hope - as far as I'm concerned Guild Wars is getting worse.

/agreed Tyla

it is getting worse when they keep adding OP skills that dumb down the level of bar building to echo, arcane echo, OP skill to clear any area

unfortunately this is compounded by a bunch of players that can and will only play this way and cannot understand why it is bad for the game

Wow all this QQ, it's PvE guys....

That was what i was thinking :P

PvE is ment to be Imba

and why they invented cheating again?

/signed for both,although with some changes

i agree with [ray of judgment] it is a dotaoe spell with burning on each pulse of dmg so its quite powerful,mobs need to recognize this spell for what it is ,imo the mobs still recognize this spell for its older version.
I disagree with cry of pain a bit imo: make it remove a mesmer hex upon usage as its been sugested already in this thread,much like [shatter delusions]but with an aoe efect or make it so it needs to interupt a skill in order for the damage to take place ,turning it into a [cry of frustration] sort of skill without the aoe interupt,or add the aoe interupt and than we will have a more powerful pve only version of cry of frustration

I vote to make it [Shatter Delusions]x[Energy Surge]
and for RoJ make it [Banish]x[Searing heat]x[fire storm]

PvE-wise, this is one of the strong arguments towards not nerfing RoJ too heavily. Until RoJ, my Monk was probably my least played character - while I do enjoy Monking for a human team, when it comes to H/Hing, I find it difficult to direct the AI characters while keeping them alive. I'd tried Smiting, but never felt it provided enough firepower to really feel as if I was contributing to the team except as leader, target-caller, and providing some light condition and hex removal.

Now, however, when H/Hing I can have him running a Smiter's Boon smite build with the standard two-member backline, and feel that the character is contributing about as much to the team's success as when I use my Ritualist in a similar offense/defense hybrid role.

I think Tyla has the right idea here. Pare back the megaspike, and if this doesn't happen in such a way as to naturally encourage it, find a way to make it work better for Mesmer primaries while still being usable for others.

I think the general idea is that it should be a case of knowing when to hit which button according to the circumstances, rather than having one sequence that always works?

I'm curious... why did you include [fire storm] in the list? Are you suggesting making RoJ last for 10 seconds?

[Qoute]I'm curious... why did you include [fire storm] in the list? Are you suggesting making RoJ last for 10 seconds?[/Qoute]

Yes but 20 holy dmg a second so the enemies would just scatter like they do with [fire storm]

On the other hand, when u have the chance to do them you prefer to do them with the cheap methods.

Why? Because you don't want to be left behind in rewards in comparison to other players, because you don't want to be called a noob.

I finish the elite mission without using tanking methods, ursan methods, cryways or consumables. I find that interesting and fun.

I understand what you are saying in a way - you don't want an easy game, neither do I.

But I can make my game harder and so do you.

The difference, is that I play my game in the way I want. You play the game in the way it gives you most rewards regardless of it being fun and/or challenging.

Why do you do that? Does it matter so much to you taking 1.30 hours to do Urgoz in nm with a balanced build opposed to half an hour in HM with a non challenging build buffed by consumables, just because you get 6 times more rewards in the end?

All these threads are about restricting the rewards, that are completely cosmetical to a reduced number, so you can go show off and get the admiration of lesser mortals.

I get impressed with people that have decent builds, can choose their targets, can body block, show battle awareness.

I don't care if they are in 1k armor with crafted/collector weapons or the ubber expensive equipment and displaying GWAMM title.

Most people that ask for these nerfs want those things to mean skill, that's why they want to restrict the elite areas.

On the other hand, this game can be played as solo and should be balanced for it.

im glad some people agree with me about how skills like these make it so players lose the ability to play the right way and are potentially killing gw2 before it starts.

another issue id like to bring up was the purpose of the game. how it was originally designed. pve was the training ground for pvp. pvp was the new content. areas like the desert honed skills like relic running, cap points, and morale boosts. proph did it well. factions incorporated pvp into the pve storyline with competitive missions and AB. the whole skill split between pve/pvp ruined this, people no longer are learning the ways to play right, instead they are playing with skills that are locked for pvp!

cry should be scaled on fast casting. simple as that
and for roj, just make it so it doesnt nuke a shrine all the way to death in jq. or give it exhaust like say obsidian flame.

What? Without a huge amount of time that I probably won't devote to the game, I won't be able to compete with those who farm on a regular basis. That, and I don't care for the economy in the game until the actual game is more balanced and I only play AB/FA (Netbook keyboards are stupid for games using the keyboard a lot, seriously).

The rewards don't matter when the economy is crushed, what does matter is that it's an elite area in hard mode taking an incredibly low skill level as minimum and giving so much. "Elite" areas in games where level scaling and equipment don't matter as much taking that time is just dumb, whereas you get some games with normal missions taking what, 45 minutes? An hour?

Well... they are meant for the better of the players. My advice to them is "get better". Its no different than me wanting to play my instruments for the pleasure, unless you think the buildup of skill is boring.