Ether Renewal healers - the death of true monking
faraaz
Jeydra
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Originally Posted by Age
Monks would still be better as you would need this WoH or ZB it heal yourself up with those being elites.Monks also have thier divine favour bonus and they don't need the energy of an Ele.
This post is a powerful example of why people don't run ER healers more often ... they've never played it and yet think they know enough about Guild Wars to come to a conclusion. But don't complain. You and your ex-guildmates did the same thing in the first topic.
PS: In case you still don't see the obvious answer, I'll give it to you. Ether Renewal restores health every cast. With Aura of Restoration as well, you can easily heal over 100+ health with every spell. All it takes is 2-3 spells and you'll be at max HP after an Infuse, free to Infuse again. The self-restorative properties of ER, coupled with Spirit Bond + Protective Spirit, is so strong that as long as the enchantments don't get removed an ER Elementalist can tank almost anything in the game (eg. 5 HM Burning Spirits) without having a build that is specialized to tanking.
@traversc - I think I can conclude that the bar you gave is just another version of ER abuse. You gain strong party heals and 1/8 cast time for all your other skills at the expense of losing Spirit Bond and Life Attunement. You also have less room to fit in hex and condition removal. And in the end it's up to the area, team composition and personal preference to decide what you run. After all, if you have a HB Monk ally with Heal Party, why supplement his already strong party-heals when you can shore up his weakness in powerful prots?
PS: In case you still don't see the obvious answer, I'll give it to you. Ether Renewal restores health every cast. With Aura of Restoration as well, you can easily heal over 100+ health with every spell. All it takes is 2-3 spells and you'll be at max HP after an Infuse, free to Infuse again. The self-restorative properties of ER, coupled with Spirit Bond + Protective Spirit, is so strong that as long as the enchantments don't get removed an ER Elementalist can tank almost anything in the game (eg. 5 HM Burning Spirits) without having a build that is specialized to tanking.
@traversc - I think I can conclude that the bar you gave is just another version of ER abuse. You gain strong party heals and 1/8 cast time for all your other skills at the expense of losing Spirit Bond and Life Attunement. You also have less room to fit in hex and condition removal. And in the end it's up to the area, team composition and personal preference to decide what you run. After all, if you have a HB Monk ally with Heal Party, why supplement his already strong party-heals when you can shore up his weakness in powerful prots?
AtomicMew
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Also, the only thing you need really need to ditch to run Heal Party is Spirit Bond - hardly an essential prot. Prot Spirit is enough, in which case, why not take Heal Party, since you can spam it all day long, shoring up the weaknesses you mentioned ER has.
Winterclaw
I was just thinking:
[symbiosis] for overkill healing?
[symbiosis] for overkill healing?
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra
This post is a powerful example of why people don't run ER healers more often ... they've never played it and yet think they know enough about Guild Wars to come to a conclusion. But don't complain. You and your ex-guildmates did the same thing in the first topic.
PS: In case you still don't see the obvious answer, I'll give it to you. Ether Renewal restores health every cast. With Aura of Restoration as well, you can easily heal over 100+ health with every spell. All it takes is 2-3 spells and you'll be at max HP after an Infuse, free to Infuse again. The self-restorative properties of ER, coupled with Spirit Bond + Protective Spirit, is so strong that as long as the enchantments don't get removed an ER Elementalist can tank almost anything in the game (eg. 5 HM Burning Spirits) without having a build that is specialized to tanking.
Why use infuse in pve in first place as there is no need to?You are speading your points to thin if you have them in healing and protection.Who make better hybrids Monks not Eles.
PS: In case you still don't see the obvious answer, I'll give it to you. Ether Renewal restores health every cast. With Aura of Restoration as well, you can easily heal over 100+ health with every spell. All it takes is 2-3 spells and you'll be at max HP after an Infuse, free to Infuse again. The self-restorative properties of ER, coupled with Spirit Bond + Protective Spirit, is so strong that as long as the enchantments don't get removed an ER Elementalist can tank almost anything in the game (eg. 5 HM Burning Spirits) without having a build that is specialized to tanking.
Why use infuse in pve in first place as there is no need to?You are speading your points to thin if you have them in healing and protection.Who make better hybrids Monks not Eles.
Snow Bunny
A lot of you are missing a critical point -
with Infuse, you can powerheal everything so you don't need to prot.
Carry on.
with Infuse, you can powerheal everything so you don't need to prot.
Carry on.
Jeydra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
Of course you need Infuse. You don't need Infuse the skill, but you need something to push red bars up. Reversal of Fortune may be godly, but you try Monking with only that as your 'heal' and you will die. The other thing about Infuse is that you're not spreading your points. Infuse is one of those skills which is effective at 0 Healing (although when I've played ER, it's typically at 5 Healing Prayers). The only serious thing that having higher Healing Prayers will do is when you're Infusing immediately after another Infuse when you've not had the time to put your health back up. Not very major, anyone who has played the build before will agree. High spec in Healing only matters if you're going to spam Heal Party, when you can still have 11 points Healing 8 points Protection and carry Prot Spirit, which is another of those skills you can use without heavy point investment.
Call the bar what you want, but see it in action before you critique it, OK?
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It means your Monk either wisens up and plays to his strengths (i.e. hex removal, party heals, instant Res via Unyielding Aura, etc) or retires. Monks have no advantage playing as an Elementalist-skill using nuker. Elementalists have plenty of advantages playing as a healer.|
Originally Posted by traversc
Also, the only thing you need really need to ditch to run Heal Party is Spirit Bond - hardly an essential prot. Prot Spirit is enough, in which case, why not take Heal Party, since you can spam it all day long, shoring up the weaknesses you mentioned ER has.
Well Life Attunement + Healer's Boon + Heal Party owns, it's like casting Heal Other on everyone. And Spirit Bond is great - especially in HM many monsters hit above 60 damage on casters, and with Spirit Bond they won't even start taking damage ... it also has 2-second cooldown compared to the 5-second of Prot Spirit. You can prot a lot better with Spirit Bond.
Maybe you play with different Monks from me. When I play ER, I'm usually with a HB Monk whose only prot (if he even has one) is Prot Spirit. That's why I usually don't find it necessary to have Heal Party. @above - in the harder areas you still need to Prot, even Infuse has a cast time and recharge and you can't Infuse everyone ...
Carinae
Are we necessarily talking about player ER healers? Because I've been running hero E/Rt and E/Mo healers exclusively for the past 6+ months. They're pretty juicy, better than N/Rt IMHO.
And yes, on a hero bar, you just want serious red-bars-go-up. Heroes don't Prot worth shit, unless you micro them and I'm too lazy to do that except in cases where I must.
Age
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
Thought I'll give you the benefit of doubt and explain this a bit more.
Of course you need Infuse. You don't need Infuse the skill, but you need something to push red bars up. Reversal of Fortune may be godly, but you try Monking with only that as your 'heal' and you will die. The other thing about Infuse is that you're not spreading your points. Infuse is one of those skills which is effective at 0 Healing (although when I've played ER, it's typically at 5 Healing Prayers). The only serious thing that having higher Healing Prayers will do is when you're Infusing immediately after another Infuse when you've not had the time to put your health back up. Not very major, anyone who has played the build before will agree. High spec in Healing only matters if you're going to spam Heal Party, when you can still have 11 points Healing 8 points Protection and carry Prot Spirit, which is another of those skills you can use without heavy point investment. Call the bar what you want, but see it in action before you critique it, OK? ... You only use 5 in heal that's not good enough to use infuse.You put higher points in healing to get the most out of it not to spam heal party.I am takling about this from monks perspective not an Els.It is still better for Monk to do the infusing as they can heal up faster and I do have Ele as well.I wouldn't even think of using just one skill for 5 at healing prayers.Why would I use RoF and I won't die if I only use it as it will be negating the damage recieved.Then you have Shield of Absorption as well.Those in pve want Eles do help in damaging or using wards but mostly damaging.
deluxe
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Originally Posted by Age
You only use 5 in heal that's not good enough to use infuse.
Why not? Even at 0 spec [[infuse health] is a pretty huge heal.
Zodiac Meteor
Here is the build on wiki. I put 2 videos on it.
Age
^Monks can do it with 0 in healing as well and can heal themselves back with 0.I would like to see Eles do the same with 0 in energy storage.When Eles use infuse health in pve?
maxxfury
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
^Monks can do it with 0 in healing as well and can heal themselves back with 0.I would like to see Eles do the same with 0 in energy storage.When Eles use infuse health in pve?
Elem's use infuse in pve now because they auto heal the health sac after casting it and its basically free cast... Face the fact, ER elems can pump MASSIVE heal numbers quickly and repeatedly with tiny recharge, flood the party with HP and SPAM heavy prots with no energy worries. Been a monk primary. at times i feel a little jealous
Age
The last word on this I hope is that Monks can do this with infuse then heal up with WoH although they don't need infuse as WoH is far better in PvE than any other heal along with DKiss and Patient Spirit.It is always best to prevent spikes using PS.
Jeydra
Monk Infuse = 10 energy + 5 energy to WoH back up.
Elementalist Infuse = 0 energy + 0 energy to heal back up. Actually so long as they have 3 enchantments or more on themselves (easily accomplished - Ether Renewal, Aura of Restoration and Protective Spirit / Mindbender) then the 'cost' of Infuse is -2 energy, and Elementalists actually gain energy by Infusing. Ether Renewal ftw. If you are still unconvinced, take a look at the video Zodiac_Meteor posted in the first page. It's an inferior build, but hey, it's Ether Renewal. Which Monk build can spam Infuse like that?
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
The last word on this I hope is that Monks can do this with infuse then heal up with WoH although they don't need infuse as WoH is far better in PvE than any other heal along with DKiss and Patient Spirit.It is always best to prevent spikes using PS.
With Ether Renewal, elementalists can heal up automatically every time they use Infuse, and can use Infuse as much as they want.
In other words, it's better. Jeydra
Life Attunement is a maintained enchantment, yes, and you can keep it on everyone. ER with enough spamming skills provides enough energy to maintain 14 enchantments if you so desire, although if you operate at this amount of energy degen you'll have to stop and refresh your energy very often (which is frustrating). That said, Spirit Bond, Protective Spirit and Aura of Restoration are enough to maintain 8 spells without stopping too often. That's enough to keep LA on the entire party, although of course you shouldn't maintain it on physical characters. Life Attunement is great, if you've not tried it before I suggest you do.
Jeydra
Reasons why Infuse > WoH:
1. Heals more (typically some 300 health vs. 250 at best). 2. Casts faster (1/4s >>>>> 3/4s). 3. No recharge (0s cooldown >>>> 3s cooldown). 4. WoH is elite, Infuse is not. Reasons why WoH > Infuse: 1. Less energy cost (5e vs. 10e). 2. Health loss (Infuse costs 50% of current health, WoH does not). Since ER removes both drawbacks (with 3 enchantments up, Infuse cost = -2 energy; with 3 enchantments up you restore some 100 health with every single cast), there's no reason why WoH is better than Infuse, and no reason why ZB is better than Infuse either. ER brings along other benefits as well - eg. you can now tank like a maniac (at least until you have to refresh ER), you can now maintain Life Attunement on everyone in the party, you can spam more prots than you may ever need - but in a straight comparison between Infuse and WoH it's clear Infuse is still better when you have ER up. If you lose ER though WoH is way superior. ER recharge may be 30 seconds, but all ER bars include Glyph of Swiftness + at least 13 Energy Storage, which allows you to keep ER up almost indefinitely (about 1-2 seconds of downtime - hardly critical). Losing ER is a big drawback, everyone agrees, but since chances are you'll be full of energy whenever you lose ER, the party should not collapse and die. You just drop all maintained enchanments, use your Prots more carefully, stop using Infuse (that's what the other Monk is for right?) and ride out the remaining time till you can put ER back up. I have a friend who's also a strong Monk, and she's told me before when we heal together that she'd strangle me for making her WoH seem so slow. Says something about how strong Infuse is, no? If you want to argue that a real Monk is still better, there are of course reasons and I gave them on the first two pages, but saying WoH > Infuse isn't one of them. king_trouble
Another serious drawback is if any of your healing spells gets d-shot, anything like that would seriously hinder you ability to heal.
Improvavel
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
Oh good so my Monk can go out and use MS and SF if Eles are going to take over the Monking duties.
Ok. Get this.
The Ele has stronger heals and more energy. The ele can do it better. A monk can't nuke better. Understand?
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Ok. Get this.
The Ele has stronger heals and more energy. The ele can do it better. A monk can't nuke better. Understand? Eles have stronger heals heard of Divine Favour and if you play Monk you are doing them a disservice.eles are for nuking and monks are for healing maybe infuse should be moved to Divine Favour. Monks can't nuke hey sure about that.
Lusciious
Watch my monk kill with [arcane echo] + [ray of judgment]. talk about can't nuke for shit.
[Ether Renewal] Healers can never beat a monk. simply because for a monk, you can also spam heals with [glyph of renewal] + [divine spirit] AND ER isn't maintainable and you need maintain a certain number of enchants on yourself before ER would be used to its fullest potential but with GoR + DS, you don't need anything and its MAINTAINABLE if you were to say GoR would be a wasted elite, wouldn't ER be wasted as well ? you would also not have [word of healing] so whats the difference ? and monks can have up to 14-16 in healing prayer attribute whereas an ele can't. accept it, ER Eles are only better than monks at protting. nuff said. eles should just go back and do their insane AoE damage. e.g. [savannah heat] Jeydra
Who cares if Infuse is moved to Divine Favour, even at 0 spec Infuse heals for 300+ health, beating WoH @ 16 Healing Prayers + 15 Divine Favour + <50% health. You seem utterly unable to understand that Infuse is simply stronger a single-target heal than anything a Monk can bring, especially if the target is enchanted with Life Attunement. And don't give me the 'Monks can use Infuse and bring Life Attunement' crap that you've been doing the past few pages, because Monks cannot without running out of energy.
Originally Posted by Age
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? Well, first of all, your backline just like any monk. You shouldn't be targeted by everything (Not anything). Adding prots to your front line is good if there is any enchantment removal. Some reason people think that one thing gone, fail, gg. I've been playing this build for a while. If your dumb and start tanking (Like any monk) your going to have problems. If your smart and stay back but close enough for the front line, then you should be fine.
Like I said, people like you are a big reason why ER Elementalists haven't become more popular. They think Monks are better healers even though all the force of logic goes against them. If you're still unable to understand what me and a variety of other people have been saying then I give up, you can keep using your Monk with his oh-so-powerful Infuse + GoLE + WoH, and I'll ignore any more posts you make in this topic.
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Originally Posted by Lusciious
AND ER isn't maintainable and you need maintain a certain number of enchants on yourself before ER would be used to its fullest potential but with GoR + DS, you don't need anything and its MAINTAINABLE
ER is maintainable. Glyph of Swiftness + 13 Energy Storage = Ether Renewal lasts almost as long as it cools down.
You need two enchantments for ER to work (returns 8 energy per cast, and with the spells costing 10 energy + your natural energy regen it means you pretty much have infinite energy). This is easily done. ER itself counts as one enchant, and Aura of Restoration is a 60s duration enchantment. Add in the maintained enchantment Life Attunement, and Protective Spirit on yourself if you really need it, and your teammates using stuff like Aegis, and you'll have more than infinite energy already. /sigh
Lusciious
rit healing spells, not elites, in the restoration attribute heal for more than compared to a monk without any elites. 1 good example is [spirit light] and monsters don't know how to kill the spirit so your spirit in your area requirement for that 160+ heal could be easily met.
@Jeydra, ER + [Aura of Restoration] + [glyph of swiftness] would mean you'd only have 5 healing skills left. make that 4 if you're bringing [resurrection signet]. and you've focus on being a pure healers ( since you've none on prot prayers ) all of here knows that a hybrid is better than a pure healer / protter. thats why monks are used instead of eles. you need points in energy storage to use ER so that limits your choice. Jeydra
You haven't been reading the other posts earlier in this topic have you? I bet not ...
Here're three of the standard ER bars for you. Enjoy. ER #1 - use if your entire team is full of casters (something I do when I'm with heroes / henchmen for example). Energy Storage 11 + 1 + 1 Protection Prayers 12 Air Magic 4 Healing Prayers 5 Infuse Health Spirit Bond Breath of the Great Dwarf Protective Spirit Aura of Restoration Ether Renewal Life Attunement (maintain 8 copies of this) Glyph of Swiftness ******** ER #2 - use if your team has sufficient physical DPS'ers to not use Life Attunement (otherwise known as the Ensign bar). Bar has 8 Healing Prayers to help with consecutive Infuses. Energy Storage 11 + 1 + 1 Protection Prayers 11 Air Magic 3 + 1 Healing Prayers 8 Infuse Health Spirit Bond Breath of the Great Dwarf Protective Spirit Aura of Restoration Ether Renewal Great Dwarf Weapon Glyph of Swiftness ******** ER#3 - use if the second Monk in your team does not have strong party-heals and you don't feel like coping with the -4 energy degen from 8 Life Attunements. Energy Storage 11 + 1 + 1 Air Magic 3 + 1 Healing Prayers 11 Protection Prayers 8 Infuse Health Mindbender Heal Party Protective Spirit Aura of Restoration Ether Renewal Glyph of Swiftness Great Dwarf Weapon Conclusion: Oh yes I'm focused on being a pure healer with 0 Protection Prayers ... oh wait, you've just not been reading the thread.
Marverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusciious
Watch my monk kill with [arcane echo] + [ray of judgment]. talk about can't nuke for shit.
[Ether Renewal] Healers can never beat a monk. simply because for a monk, you can also spam heals with [glyph of renewal] + [divine spirit] AND ER isn't maintainable and you need maintain a certain number of enchants on yourself before ER would be used to its fullest potential but with GoR + DS, you don't need anything and its MAINTAINABLE if you were to say GoR would be a wasted elite, wouldn't ER be wasted as well ? you would also not have [word of healing] so whats the difference ? and monks can have up to 14-16 in healing prayer attribute whereas an ele can't. accept it, ER Eles are only better than monks at protting. nuff said. eles should just go back and do their insane AoE damage. e.g. [savannah heat] omg it's so hard to maintain a few enchantments... [Protective Spirit][Spirit Bond][Aura of Restoration] yada yada yada... all 1/4 cast and <5s recharge enchantments... PS + SB are also amazing at negating damage in HM and you can spam them all over the place. Meanwhile you can spam [Infuse Health] and [Heal Party] all over the place... why do you need Word of Healing when you have Infuse and ER?.... and you seem to be missing the whole point about Infuse Health... with ZERO healing it still heals for 300hp, which is more health than a 16 spec Word of Healing. And for the record, YOU ONLY NEED ONE SKILL TO HEAL... enough with people saying your limiting your bar...
deluxe
[shield guardian] is a decent choice instead of [heal party], fast cast and spammable.
Originally Posted by Age
Anyway, the average GW player will not accept E/Mo's could be better than a monk primary. Try getting a pug playing this! Quote:
Eles have stronger heals heard of Divine Favour and if you play Monk you are doing them a disservice.eles are for nuking and monks are for healing maybe infuse should be moved to Divine Favour.
Monks can't nuke hey sure about that. So, in your eyes the good old n/rt heroes should not be healing either? Rangers should not wield a scythe or a spear? Monks should not be smiters? A D/N order spammer is blasphemy? Do you allow Rt/N minion bombers? because rits are like monks yes? You sir are so very very very narrowminded.
Snow Bunny
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Originally Posted by Age
Eles have stronger heals heard of Divine Favour and if you play Monk you are doing them a disservice.eles are for nuking and monks are for healing maybe infuse should be moved to Divine Favour.
Monks can't nuke hey sure about that. Age. GET THIS. An Ele firing off [infuse health] at 0 spec healing prayers is MORE HEALING than a monk firing off [word of healing] at it's max possible heal at 14 healing prayers. ELES HAVE MORE ENERGY AND BIGGER HEALS. THEY SIMPLY OUTCLASS MONKS IN PURE NUMBERS. GLOBAL WARMING IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT. HUMANS EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS. THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED. ELES HEAL FOR MORE THAN MONKS WITH AN ER/INFUSE BUILD. Anyways, The strip enchantments rule doesn't hold up.
Mr Emu
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Age.
GET THIS. An Ele firing off [infuse health] at 0 spec healing prayers is MORE HEALING than a monk firing off [word of healing] at it's max possible heal at 14 healing prayers. ELES HAVE MORE ENERGY AND BIGGER HEALS. THEY SIMPLY OUTCLASS MONKS IN PURE NUMBERS. GLOBAL WARMING IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT. HUMANS EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS. THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED. ELES HEAL FOR MORE THAN MONKS WITH AN ER/INFUSE BUILD. Anyways, The strip enchantments rule doesn't hold up. Amen. People should be able to speak (type) coherent English and understand basic logic before posting here. Clearly many do not qualify to these standards. |
