yes, i must say i haven't read the previous posts, yeah you guys managed to convince me that a e/mo is better than a monk in healing but an ele loses to a monk in PvP, Farming, Running. nuff said.
Ether Renewal healers - the death of true monking
Lusciious
well no matter how good ER infusers are, they won't beat a monk in PvP .
yes, i must say i haven't read the previous posts, yeah you guys managed to convince me that a e/mo is better than a monk in healing but an ele loses to a monk in PvP, Farming, Running. nuff said.
yes, i must say i haven't read the previous posts, yeah you guys managed to convince me that a e/mo is better than a monk in healing but an ele loses to a monk in PvP, Farming, Running. nuff said.
deluxe
Chthon
I've been meaning to weigh in on this for awhile now.
1. Yes, E/Mo E.Renewal "healers" outclass primary monks -- at least the WoH hybrids that have come to typify primary monks -- by a very large margin.
Forget about healing for a moment. The primary advantage for the E.Renewal healer, the thing that's just totally broken and wrong, is the fact that they have a 0-energy-cost PS that they can spam on the recharge. Monks have to use their PS very judiciously because they can't afford the energy to use it often, and they often have to substitute a 5e "small prot" or a 5e heal after the fact when a PS would have been better. Meanwhile, the E.Renewal healer is dispensing PS's like candy -- anyone who even might maybe conceivably possibly get hit gets a PS. (And, on top of that, they can throw SB if they need something while PS is on recharge and cover PS with SB if they like.)
The spot healing advantage is secondary, but also a place with a big gap. Which skill is better -- 300+ healed for 0e, 1/4cast, 0recharge OR 250ish healed for 5e, 3/4cast, 3recharge? Durrrrrr. Or, as Snow Bunny put it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
1. Yes, E/Mo E.Renewal "healers" outclass primary monks -- at least the WoH hybrids that have come to typify primary monks -- by a very large margin.
Forget about healing for a moment. The primary advantage for the E.Renewal healer, the thing that's just totally broken and wrong, is the fact that they have a 0-energy-cost PS that they can spam on the recharge. Monks have to use their PS very judiciously because they can't afford the energy to use it often, and they often have to substitute a 5e "small prot" or a 5e heal after the fact when a PS would have been better. Meanwhile, the E.Renewal healer is dispensing PS's like candy -- anyone who even might maybe conceivably possibly get hit gets a PS. (And, on top of that, they can throw SB if they need something while PS is on recharge and cover PS with SB if they like.)
The spot healing advantage is secondary, but also a place with a big gap. Which skill is better -- 300+ healed for 0e, 1/4cast, 0recharge OR 250ish healed for 5e, 3/4cast, 3recharge? Durrrrrr. Or, as Snow Bunny put it...
Quote:
GLOBAL WARMING IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT. HUMANS EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS. THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED. ELES HEAL FOR MORE THAN MONKS WITH AN ER/INFUSE BUILD.
I've heard some talk of removal being a strong point where monks beat eles, but I don't find that to be so. On the condition side of removal, I've long since ceded that to mid-liners with Foul Feast or Draw Conditions. Half the time my monk isn't even carrying Dismiss, and when I do carry it, it's for redundancy's sake in case something goes wrong with the mid-liner. So, I can't really buy that condition removal makes up a whole lot of ground for the monk. As for hex removal: Most hexes tend to do damage, which the ele can just power through with the raw healing power of Infuse. On the rare occasions when the monsters have meaningful non-damage hexes, the ele can slot Convert Hexes, which is far better than any of the non-elite 5e hex removals common for monks.
I've also hard some talk of party healing being a strong point where monks beat eles, but I don't find that to be so either. Newsflash: Party healing got nerfed. The best thing left in the monk's repertoire is Heal Party + HBoon, but that's too pricey to spam. If you're willing to tolerate its haphazard nature, eles can get a surprising amount of area heal/time from Shield Guardian. If you want something more reliable, Breath of the Great Dwarf used on the recharge is more-or-less equivalent to Heal Party + HBoon used as often as you can afford it. (I wouldn't recommend Heal Party on an ele; the long cast time interferes too much with spamming PS.) In the end, neither monk nor ele has really excellent party healing.
Finally, there's the nagging "well, E.Renewal can get stripped." Yeah, if you're a moron who doesn't cover it with the half-dozen enchantments on your bar. There's very, very few places in GW where the monsters will be able to get at E.Renewal if it's well-covered. And for those, you can either change to monk or bring along a ranger or mesmer who's aware of what the removal threat is.
FYI: I strongly favor
[Protective Spirit][Spirit Bond][Infuse][Shield Guardian][Great Dwarf Weapon][Glyph of Swiftness][Ether Renewal][Aura of Resto] (+ rez scroll) for my E. Renewal build. (Breath of the Great Dwarf can sub for Shield Guardian if the latter proves to haphazard; and Covert Hexes can sub for Shield Guardian or GDW if serious non-damage hexes are an issue.)
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2. Does this mean the end of the PvE monk? Well, maybe. It certainly means the end of the WoH hybrid that PvE monking has settled into. If monks are to remain viable for PvE, they're going to need some new and better builds.
This starts with making up ground on PS spamming, since that's the location of the quantum leap from hybrid monk to E.Renewal ele.
In order to do that, monks need a massive energy source. Five options come to mind: (1) Selfless Spirit + AP, (2) Divine Spirit + AP, (3) Selfless Spirit + Air of Superiority, (4) Divine Spirit + Air of Superiority, and (5) Lyssa's Aura + Asuran Scan. Regarding these options: First, I'm not sure if that's an exclusive list. I just asked myself "how could a monk possibly afford to spam PS," and that's what I came up with. Maybe there's more; chime in if you can think of one. Second, these options are not created equal. To answer FoxBat's question, I find that Air of Superiority comes through reasonably well except when you need it most, so that's out. I didn't even bother trying Lyssa's Aura, since it effectively reduces energy costs by 1/2, while Selfless Spirit and Divine Spirit both reduce costs by more than 1/2 if you've got a few 5e spells on the bar. As between Selfless Spirit and Divine Spirit, that's a closer call. Right now, I find myself heading towards the opinion that the duration on Selfless Spirit, plus the fact that it takes 5e spells all the way to 0e (there's a huge difference between 1e and 0e) more than makes up for the weird end conditions.
So, that leaves me with [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit]. Is that enough? Maybe. It certainly doesn't catch up with the ele for raw PS spam. But it does seem to have enough energy to put up PS where it needs to be, as long as you're not totally profligate about it. Of course, a PS spammer that needs to be smart isn't as good as one that can mindlessly pound the PS button, so the monk is going to need to do something more, something that the ele can't do.
So what can a monk do with the remaining 5 skills that the ele can't? Well, you've got the DF line and you've got Assassin's Promise. The best I can pull out from that is perma-Aegis thanks to Assassin's Promise and frequent Seed of Life, thanks to DF and Assassin's Promise. Arguably, those can make up for the weaker PS spamming and the weaker spot healing. Arguably.
OK, so that makes [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life]. The remaining 3 slots need to cover spot healing, and whatever else you can cram in there.
So far, [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life][Patient Spirit][Dwayna's Kiss][Cure Hex] (+ rez scroll) is the best I've come up with along that line. I need to put it through a lot more testing before I decide if it's really comparable with a E.Renewal healer or not.
(Yes, I've tried Racthoh's [Assassin's Promise][Divine Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life][Divine Boon][RoF][Shield of Absorption][Deny Hexes] build. I don't much care for it. First, no PS. Admittedly, the build was designed for teams with 2+ copies of SY!, but even still, I want PS to cover the initial aggro and the gaps in SY! coverage when things don't go as planned. Second, the energy is uncomfortably tight with Divine Spirit's short duration and Divine Boon's extra energy pressure. Third, if things go badly and you can't get an AP trigger when you need it, you're basically reduced a RoF-Boon spammer, since everything else is on recharge or too expensive or both until AP recharges stuff and DS comes back online. All criticism aside though, the build does represent a much-needed break from the "WoH hybrid, WoH hybrid, WoH hybrid" mentality that's never going to produce anything to rival the E.Renewal healer.)
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3. The TL-DR summary: E.Renewal eles are far better than the WoH hybrid PvE monks in common usage now. If it's possible for monks to catch up (and it may not be), the builds to do it will probably start with [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life].
I've also hard some talk of party healing being a strong point where monks beat eles, but I don't find that to be so either. Newsflash: Party healing got nerfed. The best thing left in the monk's repertoire is Heal Party + HBoon, but that's too pricey to spam. If you're willing to tolerate its haphazard nature, eles can get a surprising amount of area heal/time from Shield Guardian. If you want something more reliable, Breath of the Great Dwarf used on the recharge is more-or-less equivalent to Heal Party + HBoon used as often as you can afford it. (I wouldn't recommend Heal Party on an ele; the long cast time interferes too much with spamming PS.) In the end, neither monk nor ele has really excellent party healing.
Finally, there's the nagging "well, E.Renewal can get stripped." Yeah, if you're a moron who doesn't cover it with the half-dozen enchantments on your bar. There's very, very few places in GW where the monsters will be able to get at E.Renewal if it's well-covered. And for those, you can either change to monk or bring along a ranger or mesmer who's aware of what the removal threat is.
FYI: I strongly favor
[Protective Spirit][Spirit Bond][Infuse][Shield Guardian][Great Dwarf Weapon][Glyph of Swiftness][Ether Renewal][Aura of Resto] (+ rez scroll) for my E. Renewal build. (Breath of the Great Dwarf can sub for Shield Guardian if the latter proves to haphazard; and Covert Hexes can sub for Shield Guardian or GDW if serious non-damage hexes are an issue.)
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2. Does this mean the end of the PvE monk? Well, maybe. It certainly means the end of the WoH hybrid that PvE monking has settled into. If monks are to remain viable for PvE, they're going to need some new and better builds.
This starts with making up ground on PS spamming, since that's the location of the quantum leap from hybrid monk to E.Renewal ele.
In order to do that, monks need a massive energy source. Five options come to mind: (1) Selfless Spirit + AP, (2) Divine Spirit + AP, (3) Selfless Spirit + Air of Superiority, (4) Divine Spirit + Air of Superiority, and (5) Lyssa's Aura + Asuran Scan. Regarding these options: First, I'm not sure if that's an exclusive list. I just asked myself "how could a monk possibly afford to spam PS," and that's what I came up with. Maybe there's more; chime in if you can think of one. Second, these options are not created equal. To answer FoxBat's question, I find that Air of Superiority comes through reasonably well except when you need it most, so that's out. I didn't even bother trying Lyssa's Aura, since it effectively reduces energy costs by 1/2, while Selfless Spirit and Divine Spirit both reduce costs by more than 1/2 if you've got a few 5e spells on the bar. As between Selfless Spirit and Divine Spirit, that's a closer call. Right now, I find myself heading towards the opinion that the duration on Selfless Spirit, plus the fact that it takes 5e spells all the way to 0e (there's a huge difference between 1e and 0e) more than makes up for the weird end conditions.
So, that leaves me with [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit]. Is that enough? Maybe. It certainly doesn't catch up with the ele for raw PS spam. But it does seem to have enough energy to put up PS where it needs to be, as long as you're not totally profligate about it. Of course, a PS spammer that needs to be smart isn't as good as one that can mindlessly pound the PS button, so the monk is going to need to do something more, something that the ele can't do.
So what can a monk do with the remaining 5 skills that the ele can't? Well, you've got the DF line and you've got Assassin's Promise. The best I can pull out from that is perma-Aegis thanks to Assassin's Promise and frequent Seed of Life, thanks to DF and Assassin's Promise. Arguably, those can make up for the weaker PS spamming and the weaker spot healing. Arguably.
OK, so that makes [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life]. The remaining 3 slots need to cover spot healing, and whatever else you can cram in there.
So far, [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life][Patient Spirit][Dwayna's Kiss][Cure Hex] (+ rez scroll) is the best I've come up with along that line. I need to put it through a lot more testing before I decide if it's really comparable with a E.Renewal healer or not.
(Yes, I've tried Racthoh's [Assassin's Promise][Divine Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life][Divine Boon][RoF][Shield of Absorption][Deny Hexes] build. I don't much care for it. First, no PS. Admittedly, the build was designed for teams with 2+ copies of SY!, but even still, I want PS to cover the initial aggro and the gaps in SY! coverage when things don't go as planned. Second, the energy is uncomfortably tight with Divine Spirit's short duration and Divine Boon's extra energy pressure. Third, if things go badly and you can't get an AP trigger when you need it, you're basically reduced a RoF-Boon spammer, since everything else is on recharge or too expensive or both until AP recharges stuff and DS comes back online. All criticism aside though, the build does represent a much-needed break from the "WoH hybrid, WoH hybrid, WoH hybrid" mentality that's never going to produce anything to rival the E.Renewal healer.)
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3. The TL-DR summary: E.Renewal eles are far better than the WoH hybrid PvE monks in common usage now. If it's possible for monks to catch up (and it may not be), the builds to do it will probably start with [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life].
maxxfury
AP is all win!
Ether renewal needs toning down.. especially when you see just how broken the numbers are.. not nerfed to the shit tip, just brought into line with a swift smack in the face.
I always wondered why it was given so much juice in the buff anyways :S my guess is a typical balance brain fart...
Ether renewal needs toning down.. especially when you see just how broken the numbers are.. not nerfed to the shit tip, just brought into line with a swift smack in the face.
I always wondered why it was given so much juice in the buff anyways :S my guess is a typical balance brain fart...
Snow Bunny
I feel this bears mentioning:
Just because an Ele can heal doesn't mean a monk should Nuke. Divine Favor doesn't give monks more damage to every spell, all it does it augment healing. Energy storage and the skills in that line allow Eles to attempt essentially any caster role they so desire (apart from Dom, but zzzz).
When I began this thread, I didn't mean it for it to be an argument. The PvE meta, if you can call it that, has a long history of bandwagoning onto whatever works in PvP. All I was asking here is -
Because of PvE/PvP split power creep, can Eles effectively replace monks as primary healers? I believe thus far, the answer is a conclusive 'yes'.
The enchantment stripping argument does not hold up; I've done additional testing and in over a dozen high-end pve situations I have never found myself in a place worrying about enchant stripping; simply covering it with PS/AoR solved that.
The mantra of prots > heals would hold up, except that 350+ heals on demand with free-energy > prots.
Just because an Ele can heal doesn't mean a monk should Nuke. Divine Favor doesn't give monks more damage to every spell, all it does it augment healing. Energy storage and the skills in that line allow Eles to attempt essentially any caster role they so desire (apart from Dom, but zzzz).
When I began this thread, I didn't mean it for it to be an argument. The PvE meta, if you can call it that, has a long history of bandwagoning onto whatever works in PvP. All I was asking here is -
Because of PvE/PvP split power creep, can Eles effectively replace monks as primary healers? I believe thus far, the answer is a conclusive 'yes'.
The enchantment stripping argument does not hold up; I've done additional testing and in over a dozen high-end pve situations I have never found myself in a place worrying about enchant stripping; simply covering it with PS/AoR solved that.
The mantra of prots > heals would hold up, except that 350+ heals on demand with free-energy > prots.
Wish Swiftdeath
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
1. Yes, E/Mo E.Renewal "healers" outclass primary monks -- at least the WoH hybrids that have come to typify primary monks -- by a very large margin.
Forget about healing for a moment. The primary advantage for the E.Renewal healer, the thing that's just totally broken and wrong, is the fact that they have a 0-energy-cost PS that they can spam on the recharge. Monks have to use their PS very judiciously because they can't afford the energy to use it often, and they often have to substitute a 5e "small prot" or a 5e heal after the fact when a PS would have been better. Meanwhile, the E.Renewal healer is dispensing PS's like candy -- anyone who even might maybe conceivably possibly get hit gets a PS. (And, on top of that, they can throw SB if they need something while PS is on recharge and cover PS with SB if they like.)
The spot healing advantage is secondary, but also a place with a big gap. Which skill is better -- 300+ healed for 0e, 1/4cast, 0recharge OR 250ish healed for 5e, 3/4cast, 3recharge? Durrrrrr. Or, as Snow Bunny put it...
I've heard some talk of removal being a strong point where monks beat eles, but I don't find that to be so. On the condition side of removal, I've long since ceded that to mid-liners with Foul Feast or Draw Conditions. Half the time my monk isn't even carrying Dismiss, and when I do carry it, it's for redundancy's sake in case something goes wrong with the mid-liner. So, I can't really buy that condition removal makes up a whole lot of ground for the monk. As for hex removal: Most hexes tend to do damage, which the ele can just power through with the raw healing power of Infuse. On the rare occasions when the monsters have meaningful non-damage hexes, the ele can slot Convert Hexes, which is far better than any of the non-elite 5e hex removals common for monks.
I've also hard some talk of party healing being a strong point where monks beat eles, but I don't find that to be so either. Newsflash: Party healing got nerfed. The best thing left in the monk's repertoire is Heal Party + HBoon, but that's too pricey to spam. If you're willing to tolerate its haphazard nature, eles can get a surprising amount of area heal/time from Shield Guardian. If you want something more reliable, Breath of the Great Dwarf used on the recharge is more-or-less equivalent to Heal Party + HBoon used as often as you can afford it. (I wouldn't recommend Heal Party on an ele; the long cast time interferes too much with spamming PS.) In the end, neither monk nor ele has really excellent party healing.
Finally, there's the nagging "well, E.Renewal can get stripped." Yeah, if you're a moron who doesn't cover it with the half-dozen enchantments on your bar. There's very, very few places in GW where the monsters will be able to get at E.Renewal if it's well-covered. And for those, you can either change to monk or bring along a ranger or mesmer who's aware of what the removal threat is.
FYI: I strongly favor
[Protective Spirit][Spirit Bond][Infuse][Shield Guardian][Great Dwarf Weapon][Glyph of Swiftness][Ether Renewal][Aura of Resto] (+ rez scroll) for my E. Renewal build. (Breath of the Great Dwarf can sub for Shield Guardian if the latter proves to haphazard; and Covert Hexes can sub for Shield Guardian or GDW if serious non-damage hexes are an issue.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Does this mean the end of the PvE monk? Well, maybe. It certainly means the end of the WoH hybrid that PvE monking has settled into. If monks are to remain viable for PvE, they're going to need some new and better builds.
This starts with making up ground on PS spamming, since that's the location of the quantum leap from hybrid monk to E.Renewal ele.
In order to do that, monks need a massive energy source. Five options come to mind: (1) Selfless Spirit + AP, (2) Divine Spirit + AP, (3) Selfless Spirit + Air of Superiority, (4) Divine Spirit + Air of Superiority, and (5) Lyssa's Aura + Asuran Scan. Regarding these options: First, I'm not sure if that's an exclusive list. I just asked myself "how could a monk possibly afford to spam PS," and that's what I came up with. Maybe there's more; chime in if you can think of one. Second, these options are not created equal. To answer FoxBat's question, I find that Air of Superiority comes through reasonably well except when you need it most, so that's out. I didn't even bother trying Lyssa's Aura, since it effectively reduces energy costs by 1/2, while Selfless Spirit and Divine Spirit both reduce costs by more than 1/2 if you've got a few 5e spells on the bar. As between Selfless Spirit and Divine Spirit, that's a closer call. Right now, I find myself heading towards the opinion that the duration on Selfless Spirit, plus the fact that it takes 5e spells all the way to 0e (there's a huge difference between 1e and 0e) more than makes up for the weird end conditions.
So, that leaves me with [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit]. Is that enough? Maybe. It certainly doesn't catch up with the ele for raw PS spam. But it does seem to have enough energy to put up PS where it needs to be, as long as you're not totally profligate about it. Of course, a PS spammer that needs to be smart isn't as good as one that can mindlessly pound the PS button, so the monk is going to need to do something more, something that the ele can't do.
So what can a monk do with the remaining 5 skills that the ele can't? Well, you've got the DF line and you've got Assassin's Promise. The best I can pull out from that is perma-Aegis thanks to Assassin's Promise and frequent Seed of Life, thanks to DF and Assassin's Promise. Arguably, those can make up for the weaker PS spamming and the weaker spot healing. Arguably.
OK, so that makes [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life]. The remaining 3 slots need to cover spot healing, and whatever else you can cram in there.
So far, [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life][Patient Spirit][Dwayna's Kiss][Cure Hex] (+ rez scroll) is the best I've come up with along that line. I need to put it through a lot more testing before I decide if it's really comparable with a E.Renewal healer or not.
(Yes, I've tried Racthoh's [Assassin's Promise][Divine Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life][Divine Boon][RoF][Shield of Absorption][Deny Hexes] build. I don't much care for it. First, no PS. Admittedly, the build was designed for teams with 2+ copies of SY!, but even still, I want PS to cover the initial aggro and the gaps in SY! coverage when things don't go as planned. Second, the energy is uncomfortably tight with Divine Spirit's short duration and Divine Boon's extra energy pressure. Third, if things go badly and you can't get an AP trigger when you need it, you're basically reduced a RoF-Boon spammer, since everything else is on recharge or too expensive or both until AP recharges stuff and DS comes back online. All criticism aside though, the build does represent a much-needed break from the "WoH hybrid, WoH hybrid, WoH hybrid" mentality that's never going to produce anything to rival the E.Renewal healer.)
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3. The TL-DR summary: E.Renewal eles are far better than the WoH hybrid PvE monks in common usage now. If it's possible for monks to catch up (and it may not be), the builds to do it will probably start with [Assassin's Promise][Selfless Spirit][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Seed of Life]. Tried the bar, need to swap divine spirit in for selfless spirit since aegis cancels selfless.
Works well so far but i haven't really put it through any rigorous testing, ala Urgoz/DoA
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Because of PvE/PvP split power creep, can Eles effectively replace monks as primary healers? I believe thus far, the answer is a conclusive 'yes'.
Quote: The enchantment stripping argument does not hold up; I've done additional testing and in over a dozen high-end pve situations I have never found myself in a place worrying about enchant stripping; simply covering it with PS/AoR solved that. I agree.
Quote:
The mantra of "prots > heals" that you hear in the monk forum is wrong, and it always has been. As far as monks are concerned, the heals have always had much better energy efficiency, except (1) if there's a danger of someone being wtf-pwned before you can react, they should be protted, (2) if the incoming damage/sec exceeds you maximum heal/sec, you should prot because you can't heal any more than you already are, and (3) a couple of prot skills are actually super-efficient -- PS, Aegis, SB sometimes, SoA and Shielding Hands if you can focus aggro.
In the E.Renewal context, that goes away. When all skills cost 0e, they are all equally energy efficient. It becomes a question of time efficiency -- which skill most deserves the second it takes to cast + aftercast? Largely this is a false dichotomy -- prot and heal shouldn't be competing for the same moment of cast time. Prot can be cast the second before damage happens, and heal the second after it happens. The only time they really compete is when you have someone you failed to pre-prot and you need to choose whether to heal up the last hit, or prot for the next one. In that case, I'd say PS, then Infuse if the target can survive through PS's aftercast; Infuse, then PS if the target would be likely to die during PS's aftercast.
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Removal is a place where Monks outclass Elementalists. It's not always you'll have a place for Draw Conditions / Foul Feast on a midliner, and neither skill pushes red bars up - but Restore Condition will. Convert Hexes is a great hex remover, but it has 12s cooldown. Compare vs. Peace and Harmony and the difference speaks a million words. The other major difference is, as you touched on, party heals. Healer's Boon + Heal Party is huge party healing and while you are right that you won't have the energy to spam it much, you also should not need too much of it - two casts of Heal Party for example would total over 200 health to everyone in the party, even more if backed by Life Attunement. This should fill out every party bar quite simply. Finally there're skills that Monks can use but Elementalists cannot - Aegis, Seed of Life and Shield of Absorption. All good skills.
So I won't say Monks will go extinct, they simply have to alter their playstyles and skill choices.
Quote:
So I won't say Monks will go extinct, they simply have to alter their playstyles and skill choices.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
The enchantment stripping argument does not hold up; I've done additional testing and in over a dozen high-end pve situations I have never found myself in a place worrying about enchant stripping; simply covering it with PS/AoR solved that.
There are places ... eg. FoW burning forest (you need to be careful about running into enchant-strip region), and any area with heavy interrupts where the monsters might get ER. It's a weakness, not a serious one, but a weakness nevertheless.
PS: Prots typically > heal, especially in PvE where monsters hit for hundreds of damage. Don't see why you think otherwise ... it's still the case when Infuse heals over 350 health, because the second (and third, and fourth) Infuse won't hit for 350. PPS: Humans didn't evolve from monkeys; humans and monkeys share a common ancestor. But that's for another topic. Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra
Peace and Harmony |
Quote:
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PS: Prots typically > heal, especially in PvE where monsters hit for hundreds of damage.
Well, in that case PS > heal. Since you can potentially stop thousands of damage. The rest of the prot line is pretty meaningless against a multi-hundred hp hit (except for the blocks if it's a physical hit). Even SB is only going to shave ~80 off it, which probably won't be enough to extend the number of hits it takes to kill you. If you're not going to have PS in place, might as well just (hope to) power heal after the fact. Quote:
Oh really? Prove it. Prove that WoH heals more at 14 Heal and 9-10 Divine Favour than Infuse at 0 spec. Do the maths. This should be easy to prove. If you mean instead that WoH will refill the health you lose from Infuse, prove that too. WoH will not, there will be some health lost anyway, and you spend 15 energy for an effective 300+ HP heal.
As for PvP ... three reasons why ER doesn't work in PvP: 1. Rend Enchantments. 2. Diversion. 3. By far the most obvious ... Ether Renewal (PvP). Nobody said Elementalists will replace Monks in PvP, you're dreaming that up. Quote:
Quote:
PS: I'd like to know how you're getting 2 WoH's on 1 bar without Arcane Echo/whatever other copy skill (unless I'm interpreting that incorrectly - some grammar would be nice). If you're comparing 2 Monks to 1 Ele, thats irrelevant. Quote:
Also, why are you standing near the front line? Quote: |
and who will heal the Ele up with 50% health lost.
You heal yourself. Just cast any other spell besides Infuse on any target and you will be healed to full or near-full health.
Infuse has no recharge, and costs this build no energy. Use it like WoH. Win the game.
Originally Posted by Age
Quote: It has been stated that Monks are the healers or why would they have divine favour.
Which is kind of why we're using Monk skills. Also, despite not having Divine Favor, the power of Infuse is such that you don't need Divine Favor for extra healing. Quote:
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