Your opinion on XTH? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

go cubs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

Chicago

[SIR]

D/

18 Mar 2009 at 20:38 - 81

Ok...So idk how i can add a poll if i can so sorry

Anyway on to my opinion...
XTH is free Zkeys and im all for it. Pvp people, you complain that you are losing money because of this, tell me again, why do u need money if all you do is pvp??

I think that xth was brilliant for anet to boost revenue...
The question im dying to get answered is Will it remain??
Im assuming it will but i cant be sure i guess...

I think that xth is good and it should be kept...personally i do both pvp and pve

I do everything from HA to JQ in pvp and i am workin on Gwamm as well...(only at r1 lol but its comin) and i typically dont "farm" for money and it still comes in. Its not like revenue is what you expect when you do RA/JQ is it? at least not for me...maybe for some hardcore people it is but for me its all about the fun factor.

Pve is also about the fun factor but sometimes if u need cash you can do a bit of farming and it comes in...

The thing about XTH is that it boosts me every month and helps me get some armor/weaps and stuff like that and im workin my way on ztitle now so i will probly use every zkey i get...I think if people use the keys from XTH then its Great, I think if people sell them its Great....Keep it at least till gw2 then start from scratch and dont ruin economy in the first place xD

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

18 Mar 2009 at 20:40 - 82

Why'd we need another thread about this? *sigh* Where's that image of a dude beating a dead horse when you need it? I personally get keys through XTH, and through 'pvp' lite (JQ/FA/AB). I'd get them via real pvp if I were able to, but it's not possible at the moment.

If the intent of anet was in part to get more people interested in pvp, it certainly worked in my case. I don't give one flying shit about my key result each month when it comes down to it; I'm up early on tournament day to just watch the matches. I follow pvp discussion and debate, I watch games all day long just to see what teams are doing. Good matches on obs are a perfect way to kick back and zone out everything else. I doubt I'd have this much interest otherwise, really, so I'm thankful for the chance to get into it.

I honestly can see where your coming from in regards to 'if you want them, pvp for them' but, yanno, it's not so easy to just go gvg for keys when the only pvp experience you've got is from killing smelly luxons, and playing in ~10 real gvg matches. Which isn't your fault, as pvpers, so don't think I'm laying blame here. It's just not quite as easy as all of that, though I wish it were

Even then, you're not getting anything unless you're at 1000 or above, which... hahahaha. Yeah, my guild was about 3K something or other when we played.

I wish I could believe that keeping it solely as a reward for pvp would get more people to pvp. All you'd likely get are more teams selling off guilds/selling invites into guilds that can earn TRP and syncing up/forfeiting in every AT. Go look, there's a thread in Ventari's about this very thing.

So, uh, what's the answer here? Beyond removing it completely?

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

18 Mar 2009 at 20:58 - 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by go cubs

Anyway on to my opinion...
XTH is free Zkeys and im all for it. Pvp people, you complain that you are losing money because of this, tell me again, why do u need money if all you do is pvp??

1)Pretty much all of the high-end PvPers also play PvE. Anyone screaming about the evil junta oppressing good, honest PvE that PvP players can never understand is a gibbering idiot.

2)Most players PvP to some degree, even if it's just RA and the like. It's fairly easy to get into high-end PvP, albeit hard to win the MAT right away. Anyone complaining that PvP players have something unavailable to PvE players is a mongoloid mouth-breather.

3)Most hardcore PvPers couldn't give two Shiite's about how much money they're making per victory. They probably played for years before Zkeys were implemented, they'd play if they went away. They're a neat perk for doing something they'd do anyway, much like the PvP titles.

There is no great divide. There never has been. That's a myth touted by hardcore PvE farmers who would never willingly do a mission for fun, much less set foot in RA.

Yarly

Retired GW Player

Join Date: Jun 2006

UK

Mo/

18 Mar 2009 at 21:00 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by pansy malfoy

Why'd we need another thread about this? *sigh* Where's that image of a dude beating a dead horse when you need it? I personally get keys through XTH, and through 'pvp' lite (JQ/FA/AB). I'd get them via real pvp if I were able to, but it's not possible at the moment.

If the intent of anet was in part to get more people interested in pvp, it certainly worked in my case. I don't give one flying shit about my key result each month when it comes down to it; I'm up early on tournament day to just watch the matches. I follow pvp discussion and debate, I watch games all day long just to see what teams are doing. Good matches on obs are a perfect way to kick back and zone out everything else. I doubt I'd have this much interest otherwise, really, so I'm thankful for the chance to get into it.

I honestly can see where your coming from in regards to 'if you want them, pvp for them' but, yanno, it's not so easy to just go gvg for keys when the only pvp experience you've got is from killing smelly luxons, and playing in ~10 real gvg matches. Which isn't your fault, as pvpers, so don't think I'm laying blame here. It's just not quite as easy as all of that, though I wish it were

Even then, you're not getting anything unless you're at 1000 or above, which... hahahaha. Yeah, my guild was about 3K something or other when we played.

I wish I could believe that keeping it solely as a reward for pvp would get more people to pvp. All you'd likely get are more teams selling off guilds/selling invites into guilds that can earn TRP and syncing up/forfeiting in every AT. Go look, there's a thread in Ventari's about this very thing.

So, uh, what's the answer here? Beyond removing it completely?

There we go!

Seriously i don't know how many times i say this but zkeys won't stay the same price forever. So taking faith in the knowledge that next month you will be able to afford "x amount" of armor sets just because you get free zkeys will slowly become less of a reality. Its the same as green weapons when SF came out, you can't flood the market with an item and expect the price to stay the same.

go cubs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

Chicago

[SIR]

D/

18 Mar 2009 at 21:06 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

3)Most hardcore PvPers couldn't give two Shiite's about how much money they're making per victory.

There is no great divide. There never has been.

I agree...so why is every pvp player sayin zkeys should b 5k ea.? Why do they care about money (most of the pvp players in here so far have said give me more money)

DragonRogue

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Seattle, WA USA

Demon Dawg Knights

E/Me

18 Mar 2009 at 21:15 - 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNovember

Holy shit DragonRogue, angry much?

read for intent much?

Quote:

Wait, what?
People will always sell as high as people are willing to buy. When the title came out more people were interested, so naturally the price went up. It wasn't some evil pvper conspiracy as you're implying.

not what i was saying at all. when the PVPers started selling the keys at a higher rate, this caused others to want to capitalize on the gain as well, hence people went out and bought more accounts.

Quote:

Stop derailing. All titles can be achieved through grind of some sort, but it's generally accepted that pvp titles are harder to get.
Shocking as you may find this; pvpers play pve also, or use pve characters to pvp with. This is an expensive business; it requires gold to kit out toons.

no one denies that its hard to make money to kit out toons. PVE knows this well. But you dont see PVErs putting up endless threads whining nonstop about how the prices of mods have come down in price, or that farming areas have been nerfed. We deal with it and move on to something else.

Quote:

...or sell zkeys. Even at 2k ea it's like 50k each month, even on 1 account. Plus you assume pvpers are don't know jack

Agreed on this. Then stop whining about the fact that this is not enough. And where did i ever say or lead you to assume PVPers dont know anything? The PVPers are complaining that they want the XTH removed so thier zkeys will go back up in price so they can have control over the Zkey market again and earn their money this way. What i am saying is that if they dont have enough gold to buy what they want, then go out and farm for it in PVE. The PVPers are telling the PVE that if they want Zkeys then we should learn to PVP.

Quote:

No-one's whining about the fall in zk prices. The thread is complaining about the abundance affecting "economy", which is more in reference to skin prices. And how is selling zkeys greedy?

The threads are littered with people complaining about the drop in Zkey prices which is effecting the economy. Where have you been? Constant references to the amount of zkeys causing the drop in prices of those keys. Selling Zkeys isnt greedy. Bitching endlessly that they arent worth what they used to be is greedy. No where that i have read are people mad at the drop in prices of various skins...its been all about the drop in prices of the keys themselves.

Yarly

Retired GW Player

Join Date: Jun 2006

UK

Mo/

18 Mar 2009 at 21:17 - 87

Discussions like this always seem to stray onto the pvp vs pve troll train. Oh well, thats gwguru.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

18 Mar 2009 at 21:32 - 88

Quote:

Originally Posted by go cubs

I agree...so why is every pvp player sayin zkeys should b 5k ea.? Why do they care about money (most of the pvp players in here so far have said give me more money)

I scrolled through the entire thread and didn't find a single person saying that. I saw two people asking why PvE farmers feel entitled to zkeys (a valid question), a couple people saying that getting free money even if you make crappy predictions is stupid (also valid), and a bunch of PvE farmers complaining that it makes the plebs uppity.

Asplode

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Chicago, IL

Rebel Rising [rawr]

18 Mar 2009 at 21:48 - 89

First off I hold no delusions that my opinion isn't biased; my in-game money comes from Zkeys which lose value as XTH becomes more popular and people invest in multiple accounts. That is my situation.

That being said, I sympathize with the people that find that XTH distributes wealth more evenly, but there is the fact that the one-account-per-person userbase isn't the one that negatively impacts Zkeys. The price of Zkeys would naturally inflate as subsequent titles got more Zkey heavy, and XTH would normally keep this in balance anyway

However, your average player probably hasn't spent $100 in prophecies accounts as a long-term investment for greater ZKey rewards over time.

I believe this thread is a bit unfocused as the issue is more about the aforementioned scenario and not Joe Wammo who gets a free 100k monthly welfare check, which isn't a bad thing at all.

Lastly, it seems like a bit of a vain argument to go "Well the economy is pretty bad anyway, so screw it let's just throw it off a cliff".
Just because something is crippled, doesn't mean that you should just go and euthanize it without much further consideration.

But let's be realistic here: Regardless of whether this is a problem or not, this is a mechanic which, as an end-result, makes people buy Guild Wars. The motivations don't matter here. ANet probably won't take out XTH for that simple fact.

Firebaall

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

19 Mar 2009 at 00:18 - 90

In my short time dabbling in the XTH....

1) I know who the movers and shakers are in PVP.

2) I have more accounts than I did before XTH.

Those are the two biggest goals that Anet are meeting with XTH.

Facts are, that PvP is a very small part of guildwars. In terms of playerbase. XTH promotes PvP exposure, by peaking the interest of it's larger customer base.

Facts are, Anet is selling multiple accounts because of XTH. This is serious motivation to keep it.

"Economics"? Not since Inscriptible weapons, and the Xunlai chest itself. The real economy is powered by title items now. Keep the house.

amber dawn

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2008

fos

A/

19 Mar 2009 at 00:21 - 91

just my 2 cents but it seems there is alot of pve dosen't deserve the zkeys (i could be wrong on that assumption.) but if so, then pvp shouldn't be able to sell them to pve.
I like the free money sure, and i will take it as long as they keep giving it. I do feel something needs to be done tho. But in the meantime I will take what I can get like everyone else here. It is fun reading the thread tho.

MMSDome

Raged Out

Join Date: Sep 2005

19 Mar 2009 at 00:54 - 92

Remove it entirely.

Clone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

19 Mar 2009 at 01:55 - 93

Well, it serves its purpose as a deterrent to ebay gold sellers, which even if they'll never admit it, was likely their main goal. at the same rate, I don't exactly like the idea of people getting 10+ accounts just for a the income.

I think if you tried to change it, you'd get a lot of rage and unending flames, so its best left alone and just left out of GW2 (should that prove not to be vaporware).

your lucky i

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2009

Mo/

19 Mar 2009 at 02:03 - 94

seriously if you whine that people abuse to get money in guildwars is pretty sad... i mean if you were a pver you would love the free money. but a person with multiple accounts will get more. yea who cares its not your problem

coil

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

19 Mar 2009 at 03:05 - 95

i'll be buying at least 1 extra account because of it (XTH) ( yes i get into things late ) .

Ec]-[oMaN

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Toronto, Ont.

[DT][pT][jT][Grim][Nion]

W/

19 Mar 2009 at 05:37 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

1) I know who the movers and shakers are in PVP.

because the PvP playerbase is dead and pre XTH it would be a coin flip on which guilds place where.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

2) I have more accounts than I did before XTH.

Games dead, people are giving accounts away on a daily basis.

Don't see any real goals happening here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

XTH promotes PvP exposure, by peaking the interest of it's larger customer base.

All it's doing is peaking exposure for the Guild Wars website. Can't tell me that even 5% of PvE player-base bothers to watch obs mode. Let alone par takes in any kind of PvP structured instance for the sole purpose of obtaining zkeys, why bother when you can input 16 names on a website once a month and come out with more than you would trying to gain balth faction/rps.

Amnel Ithtirsol

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

AU

League Of The Fallen

Mo/

19 Mar 2009 at 05:57 - 97

Thread is going nowhere fast.
Can one of the admins/mods please start a poll?

I'm sure it will give some interesting results...

Wild Rituals

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2008

NZ

Frenzy More [Plz]

Mo/W

19 Mar 2009 at 11:04 - 98

Remove it and people will QQ
Keep it and people will QQ
change it people will QQ
welcome to guru people are going to QQ

as long as there are at least 2 people
there are going to be 2 opinions on the matter.

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

19 Mar 2009 at 11:04 - 99

One can argue that it creates a relationship between real life wealth and in-game wealth. If you've got a few hundred quid in disposable income to spend on GW accounts then you can become wealthier in-game whereas those who don't have as much cash will become comparatively poorer.

This means that the 15 year-old school kid can't compete with Mr. Thirty-something who makes custom rigs for Dell for a living.

stanzhao

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2008

19 Mar 2009 at 13:03 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

One can argue that it creates a relationship between real life wealth and in-game wealth. If you've got a few hundred quid in disposable income to spend on GW accounts then you can become wealthier in-game whereas those who don't have as much cash will become comparatively poorer.

This means that the 15 year-old school kid can't compete with Mr. Thirty-something who makes custom rigs for Dell for a living.

i dont understand your point. people were rich before z-keys were introduced...

Grj

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

19 Mar 2009 at 13:36 - 101

It's amazing how people start "caring" about the "economy" when their zKeys start to fall in price. The XTH has been on going for quite some time and now people start pointing out its a problem now? LOL

I also like how'd anet said they refuse to sell rewards/gold on the online store but they're more then happy for people to aquire more accounts to get gold via the XTH

What they trying to do ease people into selling this via the store slowly via the backdoor?

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

19 Mar 2009 at 13:40 - 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanzhao

i dont understand your point. people were rich before z-keys were introduced...

I think the point is clear. More real world money can give more in-game money.

Lourens

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

19 Mar 2009 at 15:22 - 103

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

Remove it entirely.

I Agree on that

Dr.Jones

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2008

19 Mar 2009 at 23:59 - 104

my thoughts are as follows eather remove it completly and remove reward points.

or change it so you get reward points for wining halls wining 5 games of ra/ta and winning jq and fa and ab. and remove the 5rp=1zkey

Or just remove the 5 Rp= 1zkey, and change the armor and skin system for pvp toons so they unlock it useing reward points. also change it so if you buy the a eite armor set for a sin then it unlocks it for any pvp sin you make.

the last of the options i think would server as the best solution.

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

20 Mar 2009 at 00:45 - 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuclearSlug

Perhaps you should look into taking an economics class. If you did, you'd know that new money is created every day. Every time someone gets a home loan, that money is created virtually out of thin air. Sounds crazy, but it works. The distribution of Z Keys is a very similar concept. While it does change the value of certain items, it does keeps the economy moving.

Perhaps YOU should take more than one economics class.

Banks must have money to lend it. (They also must have solvent balance sheets, but that's a separate lecture.) Central banks determine how much money is available in the system by selling and purchasing government bonds. Money is created when banks loan money, but they have to meet certain reserve requirements. The upshot is that the central bank can control the amount of available money in the system by controlling the amount of reserves available to the banks.

If the government starts printing money and buying government bonds with the printed money, it releases more money into the system and devalues existing currency.

Creating a brand new source of Zkey drops not associated with Balth faction is analogous to running the printing presses.

In this case, the printing presses are privately held. There are property rights associated with who gets the money: the distribution is given on a per account basis. People who buy lots of accounts get money. Everyone that does not buy tons of accounts loses, because they are doing more poorly relative to how they were doing in the absence of XTH. Nominal prices increase as a result of the printing of "money".

Good luck in your undergraduate classes.

Ate of DK

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Netherlands

None but Fools [nuts]

20 Mar 2009 at 01:58 - 106

I'm no fan of the XTH. Offcourse I like some free keys but I don't see why you should be largely rewarded for not playing. But more important, the system hasn't worked properly one month? Everywhere people receive no rewards, false amounts and even rewards when they don't even know where to find the XTH... so yeah. As long as it's not 100% accurate they should close it and fix it.

On the other side; I can see why Anet does this. In some stores GW can be picked up for €10,00. Cheap enough for some hardcore junkies to buy them and get extra Zaishen Keys each month. And also the cheapest way to have enough storage and store anything. Easy with GWx2 to move your stuff. They are laughing because they earn money without adding playable content to the game...

Ate

Rhamia Darigaz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2008

20 Mar 2009 at 02:52 - 107

mATs are the things that give me free zkeys right?
i think they should stay so i can save up for chaos gloves :-)

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

20 Mar 2009 at 02:59 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

This means that the 15 year-old school kid can't compete with Mr. Thirty-something who makes custom rigs for Dell for a living.

except that the 15 year old can spend 8 hours a day farming in gw, while the 30 year old can only spend 2 hours every other day completing normal mode missions.

(im not pro-xth btw...just thought i'd point that out)

Angelica

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Aussie land

Me/E

20 Mar 2009 at 03:14 - 109

I disagree keep it - :P

I like the free Zkeys........and opening the chest even if it gives me only crap items, I always hope for one good drop and it's fun, fun, fun!

Not everybody is selling the Zkeys or after a titles and not everyone is posting/visiting this forum to exspress their opinions!

Why is it that people start to complain every time something is free or is fun to play?

Please stop complaining GW is a game and it should give you enjoyment not frustration!

Live and let live for once!

germanturkey

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

[PoW]

E/

20 Mar 2009 at 03:18 - 110

i would say no.. i just checked this month and i got 105 points. mmm. virtual money.

T1Cybernetic

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Wakefield, West Yorkshire, Uk, Nr Earth

Alternate Evil Gamers [aeg]

N/

20 Mar 2009 at 10:06 - 111

I dont see any problems with it

other than the fact that the tournament house is always broken in some way it does add +1 feature to the game.

The tournament points are great to have (if you have/get any)

It is not hurting anything? and it's not exactly game breaking? just a bit of friendly fun (some people take it too serious) but thats their problem not ours.
It also keeps people trading in the form of (character/account titles zkeys + tonics + weapons + alcohol + sweets + upgrades & tomes etc) did i miss anything

On the other hand there is a load of people (including me) forget to vote each month, It's frustrating but thats another story...

__________________

Ps,
Look there is only two (2) smilies in my post.......

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

20 Mar 2009 at 11:21 - 112

Quote:

Originally Posted by T1Cybernetic

On the other hand there is a load of people (including me) forget to vote each month, It's frustrating but that's another story...

That's easily solved: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308569 You know what to schedule, right?

Sir Skullcrasher

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

15 over 50 [Rare]

W/Mo

20 Mar 2009 at 16:35 - 113

I say keep XTH. I like the free keys and it give me some decent items per months (usually put on my heroes)

Ate of DK

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Netherlands

None but Fools [nuts]

20 Mar 2009 at 18:18 - 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Skullcrasher

I say keep XTH. I like the free keys and it give me some decent items per months (usually put on my heroes)

I rather earn those items with actual playing.

It's sad that those who buy multiple accounts get rewarded with ingame wealth. I hope those Zaishen Keys are at a 1K trading value very soon.

Striken7

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

The District Nudists

R/

20 Mar 2009 at 20:14 - 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

Virtual wealth is serious business!

It's sad that some people actually take this stuff so seriously - including those who buy extra accounts just for Z-keys. People on both sides of this ridiculous, pointless argument, need to get some perspective and fresh air then calm down.

The XTH has been implemented for a long time, and is available as well as completely optional to everyone. Removing it "just because", would be a waste of time and resources for Anet as well as a disservice to those players who enjoy it. Those who don't, don't need to bother with it.

Now go outside.

Dreikki

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Kemi, Finland.

Pirates of the Searing [YoHo]

Mo/

20 Mar 2009 at 20:56 - 116

I've been playing since the beginning and I worked really hard to get my money.

Sure I love free stuff, but I don't think beginners need to work for enough in order to earn money the way pre-XTH players had to.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

20 Mar 2009 at 21:00 - 117

Well yes remove XTH as well as 55 monks and solo sins an anyone else who can solo or two people group to get stuff. Or else keep the drops waaaaaay low for solo and anything other than 6+ in a group. Have more drops for grouping and much much less for soloing. BUT! Allow Heroes/Henchies to count as the group total, but, take away the ability to send them packing clear across the map so someone can get all the loot.

lord of all tyria

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

20 Mar 2009 at 21:16 - 118

I like it because I don't care about what everyone else does to get keys, I like my shiny pver emote.

doomfodder

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2007

farm

R/

20 Mar 2009 at 22:10 - 119

sure would B nice to have a 2x zkey reward weekend soon = 2 zkeys for 5k balth! That might actually drive down the price of zkeys for a weekend. Fret not, the zkey market price will rebound as soon as the weekend ends.

Besides, mayB oodles of players would try PvP that weekend. The JQ wait might go up from an average of 11 to 30 timer cycles just to get in (on the kurz side), HoH might spill over in to american districts, TA might actually accept unranked players in PUG...

Everyone knows we NEED a new "economic stimulus package" in GW anyway right?

I've resigned myself to the fact that 'm just not rich enough to buy the zaishen title - and never will be. Still tryin to get enough funds to buy the booze, sweets, & party titles atm....

Boneyard Spleeneater

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

Seattle

Immortal Corruptors [GWAR]

Me/N

21 Mar 2009 at 05:13 - 120

My $.02

For my first actual working prediction (tried a couple times but couldn't make it work, probably due to browser issues), I won 55 points. That is 11 Zkeys.

I can earn 6k Faction a day farming Elite, which takes me around 20 minutes or so. In thirty days, that would be 180k Faction, which I could redeem for 36 Keys.

So I would posit that XTH doesn't really add anything to the game that can't already be gotten through normal play.

If I sign up two of my three mule accounts, I could acquire exactly the same amount of keys and spend that twenty minutes a day actually playing the game, or earning faction to unlock skills.

I could also farm every day and earn twice as many keys, but I can never remember to farm anyway, and the only time I do is when I want to unlock something, or when I can't decide which toon to play (which is how I got the first few keys in my inventory).

So I say leave the XTH. Perhaps adjust the rewards a bit. Let folks earn themselves some free keys. Maybe they can adjust the chest to drop only Partys, Drunks, Sweets, and Tonics. The last thing I want is another thing I have to actually grind. I don't get to play every day as it is, and I would rather not spend that time farming faction for keys.

Let us sell or use them as we will, and just play the game.