Locust's fury sin idea, the imbasin
Super Igor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenomortis
When it comes to Mark of Pain, I'd be looking to maximise the attack rate as I'd expect Mark of Pain to outdamage Death Blossom.
The only concern with MoP with Locust's, is that a heavily buffed sin may end up killing the marked target too quickly. well, first of all Locust's wont give you 100% to double strike, it will only give you about 74% and it does not effect leads and off-hands so you have to rely on weak assassin auto-attacks which even with buffs wont deal as much damage as the attack skills would with the same buffs. Sometimes, it is pretty hard and pointless to try to ball the foes perfectly for mop so you end up killing off some of them one by one and ms/db beats Locust at that, not to mention that it is less ench-dependant but w/e.
It will take a generic MS/DB sin three attacks to hit with Blossom, [golden fox strike][wild strike][death [email protected]], lets assume you got lucky to make three consequtive double strikes with the Locust, same time taken but more hits. lets see how much aoe damage they will deal with [email protected]:
MS/DB 43*2+38*4=238
Locust 6*38=228
Locust deals a little less damage, but you are not guaranteed to make exactly 6 hits.
The only concern with MoP with Locust's, is that a heavily buffed sin may end up killing the marked target too quickly. well, first of all Locust's wont give you 100% to double strike, it will only give you about 74% and it does not effect leads and off-hands so you have to rely on weak assassin auto-attacks which even with buffs wont deal as much damage as the attack skills would with the same buffs. Sometimes, it is pretty hard and pointless to try to ball the foes perfectly for mop so you end up killing off some of them one by one and ms/db beats Locust at that, not to mention that it is less ench-dependant but w/e.
It will take a generic MS/DB sin three attacks to hit with Blossom, [golden fox strike][wild strike][death [email protected]], lets assume you got lucky to make three consequtive double strikes with the Locust, same time taken but more hits. lets see how much aoe damage they will deal with [email protected]:
MS/DB 43*2+38*4=238
Locust 6*38=228
Locust deals a little less damage, but you are not guaranteed to make exactly 6 hits.
Paul Dawg
And YOU'RE talking to someone who has done every HM zone, dungeon, and mission in the game--most of them with my trusty [pain inverter].
Puh-leeze take your Legendary Vanquisher and show it to someone who might actually be impressed.
Edited to add: What does Legendary Vanquisher have to do with HM dungeons anyway? Lol, enjoy your title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Puh-leeze take your Legendary Vanquisher and show it to someone who might actually be impressed.
Edited to add: What does Legendary Vanquisher have to do with HM dungeons anyway? Lol, enjoy your title.
Quote:
You're talking to a Legendary Vanquisher, newbie.
snaek
dagger attack speed with 33% ias = 0.88 seconds
[[locusts fury]
0.88s: 2 attacks
1.76s: 4 attacks
2.64s: 6 attacks
3.52s: 8 attacks
4.40s: 10 attacks
5.28s: 12 attacks
6.16s: 14 attacks
[[moebius strike]/[[death blossom]
0.88s: 1 attack (+30 dmg)
1.76s: 2 attacks (+65 dmg)
2.64s: 4 attacks (+155 dmg)*
3.52s: 5 attacks (+190 dmg)
4.40s: 7 attacks (+280 dmg)*
5.28s: 8 attacks (+305 dmg)
6.16s: 10 attacks (+395 dmg)*
(*death blossom activated)
3 [[death blossom]'s on a single foe is a bit high tbh, but its not unusual. i'd say the average would be 2 [[death blossom]'s on each foe.
lets just take 3 for example though; you would need to make up 395 bonus dmg (not counting any aoe) with 4 attacks.
[[locust's fury] imo can only shine under 2 circumstances:
1) armour-ignoring dmg is unimportant/undesirable
2) [[death blossom] has less opportunities to be activated
i.e. normal mode
[[locusts fury]
0.88s: 2 attacks
1.76s: 4 attacks
2.64s: 6 attacks
3.52s: 8 attacks
4.40s: 10 attacks
5.28s: 12 attacks
6.16s: 14 attacks
[[moebius strike]/[[death blossom]
0.88s: 1 attack (+30 dmg)
1.76s: 2 attacks (+65 dmg)
2.64s: 4 attacks (+155 dmg)*
3.52s: 5 attacks (+190 dmg)
4.40s: 7 attacks (+280 dmg)*
5.28s: 8 attacks (+305 dmg)
6.16s: 10 attacks (+395 dmg)*
(*death blossom activated)
3 [[death blossom]'s on a single foe is a bit high tbh, but its not unusual. i'd say the average would be 2 [[death blossom]'s on each foe.
lets just take 3 for example though; you would need to make up 395 bonus dmg (not counting any aoe) with 4 attacks.
[[locust's fury] imo can only shine under 2 circumstances:
1) armour-ignoring dmg is unimportant/undesirable
2) [[death blossom] has less opportunities to be activated
i.e. normal mode
Moloch Vein
^ What I meant is that if you are in full "DB/Moebius" mode it eats all your energy and leaves you short with energy for other utility. And yes, I have run out of energy with DB/MS, usually because of one or two missed attacks and because I do not generally pack Critical Eye.
Hatchet Child
Super Igor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
^ What I meant is that if you are in full "DB/Moebius" mode it eats all your energy and leaves you short with energy for other utility. And yes, I have run out of energy with DB/MS, usually because of one or two missed attacks and because I do not generally pack Critical Eye.
start using crit eye, seriously.
Hatchet Child
riktw
well minions attack once every 3 sec or so, LCFury sin almost every 0.5 sec
you need 6 minions to attack more often than LCFury sin.
and most of the time your sin listens to what you ping and your minions not.
anyway this reached 5 pages, so i am shocked lol
hmm, MoP necro + bonder monk + LCFury sin that aggro's about 30 raptors/veattirs/whatevers, i want screenies of the MoP damage lol
you need 6 minions to attack more often than LCFury sin.
and most of the time your sin listens to what you ping and your minions not.
anyway this reached 5 pages, so i am shocked lol
hmm, MoP necro + bonder monk + LCFury sin that aggro's about 30 raptors/veattirs/whatevers, i want screenies of the MoP damage lol
Bobby2
^lol
[rush][i am the strongest][disrupting stab][wild blow][critical agility][locust's fury][critical eye][air of superiority]
SY! was taken care of, so I could tamper with PvE skills to -maybe- make it worth the change from Blossom spamming... (not)
[rush][i am the strongest][disrupting stab][wild blow][critical agility][locust's fury][critical eye][air of superiority]
SY! was taken care of, so I could tamper with PvE skills to -maybe- make it worth the change from Blossom spamming... (not)
Chthon
1. This build concept is... cute.
2. The damage is bad, for the reasons Snaek points out.
3. The damage is bad, even in the ideal situation with a AP-MoP teammate. Look at Snaek's post again. Even assuming all 4 of the Locust build's extra attacks hit a MoP-ed target with a dozen enemies in adjacent range, that does less damage than the 6 DB triggers the MS-DB build would do to the same dozen adjacent enemies. In fact, the Locust build falls further behind the bigger the mob gets.
4. I'm not sure if the purpose of this build is something actually worth doing. There's no point in spamming SY! more often than once every 4 sec (5 sec of you have a decent rank). Having a bit of extra adrenaline helps you buffer if you miss an attack, etc., but I'm not sure you gain anything worthwhile by taking it to this extreme.
5. Dodge This is a terrible skill for anyone who is supposed to be spamming SY!
6. Pain Inverter is a terrible skill on anyone who is supposed to be spamming SY!. Getting a good effect from it relies on you screwing up the SY! spam. Doh!
Also, it's a pretty bad skill generally. With a few dungeon bosses aside (I'm looking at you, Isuldur...), most monsters (a) don't live long enough for PI to do much, and (b) don't do enough damage that you couldn't just kill them faster via direct damage. Additionally, (c) reactive hexing is weak in general.
2. The damage is bad, for the reasons Snaek points out.
3. The damage is bad, even in the ideal situation with a AP-MoP teammate. Look at Snaek's post again. Even assuming all 4 of the Locust build's extra attacks hit a MoP-ed target with a dozen enemies in adjacent range, that does less damage than the 6 DB triggers the MS-DB build would do to the same dozen adjacent enemies. In fact, the Locust build falls further behind the bigger the mob gets.
4. I'm not sure if the purpose of this build is something actually worth doing. There's no point in spamming SY! more often than once every 4 sec (5 sec of you have a decent rank). Having a bit of extra adrenaline helps you buffer if you miss an attack, etc., but I'm not sure you gain anything worthwhile by taking it to this extreme.
5. Dodge This is a terrible skill for anyone who is supposed to be spamming SY!
6. Pain Inverter is a terrible skill on anyone who is supposed to be spamming SY!. Getting a good effect from it relies on you screwing up the SY! spam. Doh!
Also, it's a pretty bad skill generally. With a few dungeon bosses aside (I'm looking at you, Isuldur...), most monsters (a) don't live long enough for PI to do much, and (b) don't do enough damage that you couldn't just kill them faster via direct damage. Additionally, (c) reactive hexing is weak in general.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
If we look on a standard PvE bar,
[build prof=a/w dagg=12+1+1 crit=12+1][critical agility][golden fox strike][wild strike][death blossom][moebius strike][save yourselves][/build]
This is sort of the minimum required to make the bar useful, in my opinion. You could compress by switching in Golden Phoenix Strike but then your entire combo becomes blockable, which isn't always a good thing. This is also 6 slots right there and we end up with 4 attack skills of which only 1 provides any utility. Still, this is a very good bar.
Now, if we really do want to be able to keep up Save Yourselves without 1: wasting a paragon elite for pretty unreliable returns (Anthem of Fury) or 2: bringing an entire extra character you might or might not bring otherwise (Orders Dervish with Dark Fury) we need to add:
[for great justice][air of superiority]
As you see this fills the entire bar. Now, this is only an example. By the way, that stuff about MS/DB not being "maintainable" was sort of an afterthought. It's not really a criticism of the build. However what was discussed seemed to be the best way to fuel SY!, in which case I felt that it might be prudent to note.
The reason that I feel Air is such a strong skill for this character isn't just that it will likely recharge FGJ. It's also for the other passive benefits, which include complete condition removal (handy for physicals), health given, energy given.
As for Dawg it's pretty obvious he can't even read the thread order.
Paul Dawg
That's the most serious concern for me, and why I still think the tried-and-true SY-spamming builds like warrior Godmode and Imbagon are still superior to any sin bar you can make with [locust's fury]. Yes, the bar I posted earlier in the thread was able to spam SY faster than any other bar I've ever used, but plenty of times I found myself reapplying SY long before the previous shot was going to wear off. And even with some mischief-making skills like [disrupting stab], you're still not going to disrupt casters nearly as much as an old-fashioned warrior armed with the famous ["for great justice!" (pve)][dragon slash]["save yourselves!" (luxon)][brawling headbutt] combination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Quote:
4. I'm not sure if the purpose of this build is something actually worth doing. There's no point in spamming SY! more often than once every 4 sec (5 sec of you have a decent rank). Having a bit of extra adrenaline helps you buffer if you miss an attack, etc., but I'm not sure you gain anything worthwhile by taking it to this extreme.
Moloch Vein
Personally I just find it annoying having to reapply Locust's.
glountz
You don't need For Great Justice.
You don't need to devote a whole thread or build to find a way to spam SY!.
Just get 10 Kurzick/Luxons rank, have a 6 secs duration SY!, then play any bar you want with IAS to keep it up all the time.
A 6 secs SY! can be kept up with a standar Critical agility DB-MS bar without the need of FGJ.
Builds revolving around a unique skill are bad most of the time.
Seriously.
You don't need to devote a whole thread or build to find a way to spam SY!.
Just get 10 Kurzick/Luxons rank, have a 6 secs duration SY!, then play any bar you want with IAS to keep it up all the time.
A 6 secs SY! can be kept up with a standar Critical agility DB-MS bar without the need of FGJ.
Builds revolving around a unique skill are bad most of the time.
Seriously.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
If we look on a standard PvE bar,
[build prof=a/w dagg=12+1+1 crit=12+1][critical agility][golden fox strike][wild strike][death blossom][moebius strike][save yourselves][/build]
This is sort of the minimum required to make the bar useful, in my opinion. You could compress by switching in Golden Phoenix Strike but then your entire combo becomes blockable, which isn't always a good thing. This is also 6 slots right there and we end up with 4 attack skills of which only 1 provides any utility. Still, this is a very good bar.
Quote:
Now, if we really do want to be able to keep up Save Yourselves without 1: wasting a paragon elite for pretty unreliable returns (Anthem of Fury) or 2: bringing an entire extra character you might or might not bring otherwise (Orders Dervish with Dark Fury) we need to add:
[for great justice][air of superiority] [Anthem of [email protected]] is teh shiz. Free [enraging charge] for everyone, every 10 seconds? Yes plz. As has been pointed out you don't strictly -need- any adren buffs to keep up a 6s SY!, so this is just built-in redundancy.
Leaving the last PvE slot free to spend on [asuran scan]. Woot.
[for great justice][air of superiority] [Anthem of [email protected]] is teh shiz. Free [enraging charge] for everyone, every 10 seconds? Yes plz. As has been pointed out you don't strictly -need- any adren buffs to keep up a 6s SY!, so this is just built-in redundancy.
Leaving the last PvE slot free to spend on [asuran scan]. Woot.
Super Igor
Super Igor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
^lol
[rush][i am the strongest][disrupting stab][wild blow][critical agility][locust's fury][critical eye][air of superiority]
SY! was taken care of, so I could tamper with PvE skills to -maybe- make it worth the change from Blossom spamming... (not)
why air of superiority? o_O
[rush][i am the strongest][disrupting stab][wild blow][critical agility][locust's fury][critical eye][air of superiority]
SY! was taken care of, so I could tamper with PvE skills to -maybe- make it worth the change from Blossom spamming... (not)
why air of superiority? o_O
Bobby2
For more [i am the strongest] spammage
(pretty damn unimpressive - not worth trying)
(pretty damn unimpressive - not worth trying)
Super Igor
given that it actually recharges all of your skills before 8 attacks run out, which would be very fast with locust... >.>
Bill Clinton
I'd like to point out something that was mentioned earlier on in this thread which interested me. ''Dodge this''. Everyone completely overlooked the effectiveness of the finales which paragons can use. I've been playing around with this for a little while now and honestly, you can create a pretty powerfull team using locusts.
[Critical agility]+[Locust's fury]+["For great justice!"] or [Mark of fury] (or even [Infuriating heat], which has been a very overlooked skill which, imo, is the best way to give the sin his adrenaline) = The ability to spam ["Dodge this!"] almost twice a second.
Give a paragon hero with spec 15/16 motivation [Finale of restoration] and [Purifying finale] ([Energizing finale] if you like) You can use this same paragon to use [Infuriating heat] or [Mark of fury]. Equip the asassin with vampiric daggers and suddenly you have an extremely durable front liner who gains roughly 160 health and loses a condition every 1.3 seconds for the price of a mere 10 energy. It is very easy to keep this healing on the sin and is completely unstripable, without needing to be reaplied for half a minute.
So this got me to thinking. How about a team build which uses the locusts to frontline?
5 locusts to hold all agro, maintain +100AL on party, pwn all they touch:
[Locust's fury][Brawling headbutt][Critical agility]["Dodge this!] x4 ( [Brawling Heabutt] isnt necessary, its just very good for HM when dealing with monks so its nice to have a couple of headbutters on your team. For those who would rather some other PVE skill, [Air of Superiority] is very nice for recharging shadowsteps such as [deaths charge].)
[Locust's fury]["Save yourselves!"][Critical agility]["Dodge this!"]x1
For the optional skills I would suggest stance removal ([wild blow]) and IMS or shadowsteps TBH. [critical eye] is nice, conjure spells [conjure lightning] are also good to have.
1 Finale paragon:
[Purifying finale][Finale of restoration]
Optional skills should be a general party support. [anthem of envy] is nice. [great dwarf weapon] is also good if human.
1 support necro.
[Mark of pain][Mark of fury], you get the idea.
And finish up with a smite monk with healing support.
[strength of honor][reversal of damage][smite hex] etc etc etc.
The monk and necro can even be combined, if you see fit. Freeing up your eigth slot.
Its a good build, imo. The sins pack a hell of a lot of damage and the best thing is that its defensive damage, what with the knock locking and SY spamming. But not only does it pack a punch, its also extremely versatile, the sins can take whatever secondary proff they like and have a lot of skill choices to spare, same with the other builds, too.
[Critical agility]+[Locust's fury]+["For great justice!"] or [Mark of fury] (or even [Infuriating heat], which has been a very overlooked skill which, imo, is the best way to give the sin his adrenaline) = The ability to spam ["Dodge this!"] almost twice a second.
Give a paragon hero with spec 15/16 motivation [Finale of restoration] and [Purifying finale] ([Energizing finale] if you like) You can use this same paragon to use [Infuriating heat] or [Mark of fury]. Equip the asassin with vampiric daggers and suddenly you have an extremely durable front liner who gains roughly 160 health and loses a condition every 1.3 seconds for the price of a mere 10 energy. It is very easy to keep this healing on the sin and is completely unstripable, without needing to be reaplied for half a minute.
So this got me to thinking. How about a team build which uses the locusts to frontline?
5 locusts to hold all agro, maintain +100AL on party, pwn all they touch:
[Locust's fury][Brawling headbutt][Critical agility]["Dodge this!] x4 ( [Brawling Heabutt] isnt necessary, its just very good for HM when dealing with monks so its nice to have a couple of headbutters on your team. For those who would rather some other PVE skill, [Air of Superiority] is very nice for recharging shadowsteps such as [deaths charge].)
[Locust's fury]["Save yourselves!"][Critical agility]["Dodge this!"]x1
For the optional skills I would suggest stance removal ([wild blow]) and IMS or shadowsteps TBH. [critical eye] is nice, conjure spells [conjure lightning] are also good to have.
1 Finale paragon:
[Purifying finale][Finale of restoration]
Optional skills should be a general party support. [anthem of envy] is nice. [great dwarf weapon] is also good if human.
1 support necro.
[Mark of pain][Mark of fury], you get the idea.
And finish up with a smite monk with healing support.
[strength of honor][reversal of damage][smite hex] etc etc etc.
The monk and necro can even be combined, if you see fit. Freeing up your eigth slot.
Its a good build, imo. The sins pack a hell of a lot of damage and the best thing is that its defensive damage, what with the knock locking and SY spamming. But not only does it pack a punch, its also extremely versatile, the sins can take whatever secondary proff they like and have a lot of skill choices to spare, same with the other builds, too.
Bobby2
5 Blossom spammers would do better
riktw
tk;dr post FTL, post nothing than.
looks kinda interisting, lets get headbutt on my sin lol
looks kinda interisting, lets get headbutt on my sin lol
Bill Clinton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
5 Blossom spammers would do better
Nice to see that yellow numbers is all you think matters in this game.
Enjoy failing.
Enjoy failing.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Clinton
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Originally Posted by Bill Clinton
Its a good build, imo. The sins pack a hell of a lot of damage and the best thing is that its defensive damage, what with the knock locking and SY spamming.
- Blossom spammers do SY! just as well
- Or pack Brawling Headbutt if it's been taken care of, KDlocking no prob with all the buffs you listed - Dodge This spam = lolpinpricks compared to Blossom spam (never mind Asuran Scan, which you can't have) All in all: I can do that voodoo that you do, only WITH pretty yellow numbers Enjoy gimping yourself Paul Dawg
"Just" get r10 Kurzick/Luxon, right? That's 5 million faction. Telling people "The solution is easy, just grind for a year or two" doesn't really help anyone.
Originally Posted by glountz
As I've said, I agree that this build does SY-overkill and sacrifices too much firepower for it, but even with a six-second SY, you're not going to be able to reapply SY consistently unless you think about how your bar is going to build up adrenaline. Quote:
Just get 10 Kurzick/Luxons rank, have a 6 secs duration SY!, then play any bar you want with IAS to keep it up all the time.
FoxBat
[Golden Phoenix Strike][Death Blossom][Moebius Strike][Critical Eye][Critical Agility][Dodge This!][For Great Justice!][Save Yourselves!] if you really want dodge this....
I did the math and you need 120 extra damage per hit before fury > blossom. Dodge is like, 20 of that. Orders, barbs, and SoH will only get you another 40 or so. riktw
120 extra damage, lolwut, show me the math.
you attack about 2 times a sec, that means according to your math blossom deals over 200 DPS. Bill Clinton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
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Quote: Originally Posted by Bobby2
So that's the main argument? Leet Motivation healing? This is getting funnier by the minute a) the assassin is attacking something (blocking doesnt matter, dodge this triggers after each attack)
b)the paragon has fifteen energy to spare.
Just because you're too short sighted, or stubborn, to see that its a powerfull build that doesnt follow traditional skills? Dont make yourself out to look like more of an idiot... please.
Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
Asuran scan is kind of overrated in blossom spammer builds anyway, since doesn't it only effect base weapon damage? and don't daggers have the worst of all weapons?
Nope, it affects bonus damage from attack skills as well.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bill Clinton
No, you're too scared of leaving the meta
There is no 'meta' in PvE!
Unreal Havoc
I see no reason to run "Dodge This!" on an Assassin when you have access to Wild Blow and Wild Strike, that will both remove blocking stances completely, which is more beneficial to your team, especially if you have minions and other melee because it will allow them to pile in the damage. As for blocking enchantments, Rip Enchantment does a good enough job, seems everyone bringing heroes/teammates ino the equasion, among other methods of enchantment removal.
RadaArashi
Well he said the idea of 'Dodge this!' was to reap the benefits of the Paragon's buffs, but I'd like to see how it is damage wise. Even with the damage bonus, I can't imagine the pressure being any impressive due to the dagger's low base damage.
So yeah, Dodge This dealing unblockable damage is just a extra I'd say riktw
well as far as i know meta means something like most played builds/team builds.
so there is some sort of meta in PvE, its abusing RoJ and CoP atm. yellow nubers are nice. but having every other mob dazed/blinded is very nice to, and that are not yellow numbers. and less red numbers are always very nice to |