May Skill Balances - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Still Number One

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

W/

07 May 2009 at 21:04 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Guild Wars 1 has two full time people maintaining it and one of them isn't even a programmer. Stop making your pies out of sky.

Which is the completely wrong way to handle the game. I don't care about GW 2 in the slightest. I care about GW 1, because it is what I play. So in my opinion they need to put more effort into making Guild Wars 1 balanced and less into making Guild Wars 2, because if they don't, then Guild Wars 2 will also be imbalanced as hell. If you have an imbalanced game, no one is going to play it. The entire PvP community will refuse to pick up and play Guild Wars 2 if it is just more of the same. That means they can kiss their opportunity to be the biggest MMO and land sponsorships for competitive tournaments goodbye.

And don't give me that bullcrap about new players stepping in to fill the void. The point im trying to make is competitive GvG tournaments can bring in a huge source of revenue for Anet if they play their cards right. Kicking everyone good out of the game and letting bad players fill the void does not achieve this. If you were good enough to actually compete in a monthly and win why aren't you? Either you don't play because you hate PvP, or because you aren't good enough and you hate losing. No one is going to pay to watch The Lakers vs Celtics if they replace the pros with High Schoolers. And no one is gonna line up to sponsor a tournament for a game filled with mediocre players and horrible competition.

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

07 May 2009 at 21:06 - 162

this is good to know =D why the delay on skill updates?

Apok Omen

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Commence Aggro [BaMf]

Mo/E

07 May 2009 at 21:32 - 163

To all the PvE'ers in this thread who are telling the PvP'ers to stop bitching: Shut the shit up.

We have the right to bitch about whatever we want, moreso now because the latest updates for us have been delayed just so you could have a goddamn Pokemon Center, more storage, and even a shitting stylist. And when you recieve the ability to obtain such luxuries, the second you are told you have to pay to recieve the benefits of them, you start bitching about how much Anet only wants your money and how they don't care about the players' insight. Well, guess the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO what? They are a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing company, a company that needs money to thrive and produce more products to further entertain us.

Also, alot of our suggestions have been discarded because Anet has it through their mind that some of the best PvP'ers in the game do not know how to balance it. So, instead of taking their advice, they turn to a guy who only wants to play TF2 and Hellgate: London. And when he does decide to play on a game that he is supposed to have a broad understanding of, he gets on a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing Empathic Removal Warrior, uses his admin powers to let 7 guests from other high-ranked guilds play with him, and BYOB for 5 minutes.

Anet hasn't grasped the idea that most of us play the game religiously in order to find the problem skills/mechanics and bitch about them in QQ forums or Guru or even in HA/RA/GToB. And when all the theory-crafting for the end-all skill update is made, Anet completely disregards 90% of it, makes their own change to one of them, and buffs 75% of Prophecies Elites that never saw the light of day in hopes they will make the game exciting. Not even an hour passes, and those same skills are the new broken meta.

But, Anet sees things in a god-complex view. They own the game, so only they know what is wrong with it. Problem is, we know better. We know what frustrates us, what bores us, what amuses us, and what we can tolerate. They don't.

But hey! Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Izzy isn't that bad of a skill updater. Maybe, once he creates the most-perfect skill update and balances all the skills in GW2, he will be let go since Anet will not need him anymore. If that is the case, then I will gladly start a petition to keep him and even nominate him for a Nobel Prize. If that is not the case and Izzy still has a job even if he creates the perfect skill balance, then fire his lazy ass and send him to Blizzard.

Now, the last update gave me hope. Please, don't dissapoint us in favor of the 90% of the community, unless you want it to be 99% of the community.

And, to the PvE'ers, once again: Don't act like we always get what we deserve, especially when you get everything you ask for.

russiansteven

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2008

In a chair

R/Mo

07 May 2009 at 21:43 - 164

Thank you for the update Regina

Cant wait to get my XTH Points!!!!!

Stolen Souls

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

07 May 2009 at 21:47 - 165

Thanks. All I really care about are the points...though this epic thread was an entertaining read.

Emunator

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

DVDF

Mo/E

07 May 2009 at 21:57 - 166

Well after all my reading it seems a lot of people want the perfect balanced build.
I guess this means no mather what kind of skills i would choose i can handle everything, i get enough healing, i do enough damage, i just made the perfect build.
And then everyone plays the same perfect build again and starts raging because the game is to boring/balanced.
So what is that perfect build that stops all the QQ, my best guess, there is none.

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

07 May 2009 at 22:00 - 167

Well I'm sorry to all those folks who I said updates always come out at 2pm when it's simple content like we're suppose to be getting today. I guess I was wrong!!

Emunator

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

DVDF

Mo/E

07 May 2009 at 22:02 - 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Well I'm sorry to all those folks who I said updates always come out at 2pm when it's simple content like we're suppose to be getting today. I guess I was wrong!!

Well today depends on your time zone compared to A-Net's i guess.

Commander Kanen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

[DVDF]

P/

07 May 2009 at 22:07 - 169

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emunator

Well after all my reading it seems a lot of people want the perfect balanced build.
I guess this means no mather what kind of skills i would choose i can handle everything, i get enough healing, i do enough damage, i just made the perfect build.
And then everyone plays the same perfect build again and starts raging because the game is to boring/balanced.
So what is that perfect build that stops all the QQ, my best guess, there is none.

Yeah i agree. i would just like to see some pve para skill changes. i mean other than yellow way (woot) there is only SY and thats a war skill. Para healing isnt so direct and so on. You cant really farm on a para. i have only made a couple builds that work alright which can be done better on other toons.
Btw not ranting.. just wishing =)

Still Number One

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

W/

07 May 2009 at 22:08 - 170

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emunator

Well after all my reading it seems a lot of people want the perfect balanced build.
I guess this means no mather what kind of skills i would choose i can handle everything, i get enough healing, i do enough damage, i just made the perfect build.
And then everyone plays the same perfect build again and starts raging because the game is to boring/balanced.
So what is that perfect build that stops all the QQ, my best guess, there is none.

Seriously, don't talk about balance if you have no comprehension of what it is. Balance isn't a build. It is a state of the game. In balance there are builds that work well for all playstyles. There are some gimmicks, but none of them have a large power creep that makes them impossible to beat. Balance is making any playstyle viable if put in the correct hands and in the right situations. Right now all we have are super defensive omega spikes. Pressure can't compete, split can only compete against bad guilds on certain maps because the meta is so 8v8 oriented that it seems everyone forgot how to counter a good split.

And balance does not simply go into extremes, obviously the best builds are those with the ability to do all three, however those builds take the most skill to run normally.

I have yet to read a High End GvGer state he wants the game to go back into a two W/E shock axes, Ranger, Dom, Air midline, with two monks and Ele runner. That was the so called "Balanced" build and while it was fun and took a great deal of skill to run, no one wants it to be the only choice.

Mr. G

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

S. Wales

Mo/Me

07 May 2009 at 22:41 - 171

Quote:

See you still don't understand what balance means. Balance isn't everyone run ranger mesmer ele midline with 2 shock warriors 2 mnks and rit flagger.....

You assume a lot don't you? I never even mentioned any of that. First off there is not set definition of balance, however imho "prefect balance" is when abuse of flaws in the system can no longer be abused for profit.

To steal somebodies comparison to a deck of cards a perfect balanced build would be your stardard deck, however these dartboard buffs throw extra aces into the game. This means that people have an advantage, but it makes the game *interesting* at least.

I'm sure a 52 card deck could get bland after a while. Besides we all know a "perfect balance" is not possible, short of turning every match into a case of flipping a coin. or /roll.

I personally would rather a rollercoaster ride of love and hate than turning the game into bland porridge. I really can't seem to share this balanced utopia people have, I can't see a point where this many skills could be made fair without any exploits being found without it turning into one massive game of rock/paper/scissors.

Commander Kanen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

[DVDF]

P/

07 May 2009 at 23:43 - 172

Esan, number one has a point. why worry about a game thats not gonna be a playable game untill what 2011 ???

Anet has to keep the current fans and players of gw happy. And yeah i only care about GW 1 as it is the one we play.

Also for a idea. people always complain that a skill is over powerd. why not make every skill over powerd ?!? XD might make things more fun.
For every skill there is a skill to counter it. if your running in like leroy and getting blown up thats your fault

BladeDVD

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Hawaii

Clan Of Elders

N/

07 May 2009 at 23:44 - 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. G

You assume a lot don't you? I never even mentioned any of that. First off there is not set definition of balance, however imho "prefect balance" is when abuse of flaws in the system can no longer be abused for profit.

To steal somebodies comparison to a deck of cards a perfect balanced build would be your stardard deck, however these dartboard buffs throw extra aces into the game. This means that people have an advantage, but it makes the game *interesting* at least.

I'm sure a 52 card deck could get bland after a while. Besides we all know a "perfect balance" is not possible, short of turning every match into a case of flipping a coin. or /roll.

I personally would rather a rollercoaster ride of love and hate than turning the game into bland porridge. I really can't seem to share this balanced utopia people have, I can't see a point where this many skills could be made fair without any exploits being found without it turning into one massive game of rock/paper/scissors.

I don't PVP, but as I understand it, a balanced game is one where player skill and not their build, is what determines the outcome of a game.

If you have people who have an unfair advantage in the game, then that discourages play because it's less about how well you play and more about how well you can use a particular build.

People have been playing games like chess for many, many years and still do. The "skills" are always the same on both sides, it's more a matter of who is more skilled at using them. I think that's the kind of ideal the PVPers are going for.

Sarevok Thordin

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Scotland

W/N

07 May 2009 at 23:46 - 174

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Kanen

Esan, number one has a point. why worry about a game thats not gonna be a playable game untill what 2011 ???

Anet has to keep the current fans and players of gw happy. And yeah i only care about GW 1 as it is the one we play.

Because we don't want Guild Wars Forever on our hands....

(Speaking of which, DNF is pretty much canned now)

Commander Kanen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2008

[DVDF]

P/

07 May 2009 at 23:52 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

Because we don't want Guild Wars Forever on our hands....

(Speaking of which, DNF is pretty much canned now)

Shure we dont want it forever. but while were all waiting for something else why not make it more fun and fresh to keep us happy and still enjoying play ?

Personally i love a good skill update. figuring out builds with new skills is fun =)
Just adds something else to keep me entertained

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

07 May 2009 at 23:54 - 176

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

Because we don't want Guild Wars Forever on our hands....

Short of serving on NCsoft's board of directors, how do you plan to have any influence in the direction of GW development?

Look, I'm just telling all of you who want fundamental changes to GW1 to be realistic.

Yes, I realize the irony in saying this in a fansite forum and expecting to change any opinions.

Inde

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2004

08 May 2009 at 00:24 - 177

Yichi, the same amount of people with poor/wrong/useless knowledge about Guild Wars had not changed. You are all just nostalgic about the early years. It happens if you stick with something long enough. A game, kids, your life....

You're all just getting old!

Zynkh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2008

[DW] [TEAM] [FAPS]

08 May 2009 at 00:27 - 178

Hmm sorry but...

Bad Skill Balance is just bad...

What can we expect from Anet now?...

shoyon456

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

D/

08 May 2009 at 00:30 - 179

I think no matter what they do its pretty much a no-win now. Didn't they CANCEL the skill balance last month for the huge 4th bday update?

The game's on the decline, I really wonder how many people play even with those new quests. Not too little, but definitely too late.

Mr. G

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

S. Wales

Mo/Me

08 May 2009 at 00:41 - 180

Quote:

People have been playing games like chess for many, many years and still do. The "skills" are always the same on both sides, it's more a matter of who is more skilled at using them. I think that's the kind of ideal the PVPers are going for.

Personally it's an ideal I'd love to achieve. But the problem is that as long as you try and keep the game varied some skills are going to be better than others. It might not be in the extreme like some of the builds we have these days, but as long as there is a more powerful build people will run it.

Either we keep hoping for some utopian balance that doesnt turn all PvP into the dragon arena, or we keep taking our chance with the skill updates. as long as the game changes once in a while I'm happy. Let's be fair, everyone had their own opion of what the perfect balance would be so you can't please everyone.

I'd rather these dartboard buffs/nerfs instead of people sitting around stroking their beards deciding on what the perfect balance is for 2 years. At least it's something.

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

08 May 2009 at 01:35 - 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Yichi, the same amount of people with poor/wrong/useless knowledge about Guild Wars had not changed. You are all just nostalgic about the early years.

Its not that I am being nostalgic about the game, nor do I want it only my way or just a certain groups way, I want the game to be better as a whole, and updating things in the game just for the sake of updating things, is definitely the wrong way to go about making your game better as a whole for everyone. Instead of looking into the problem as to why these things are broken or why they are the only things being ran, they try to throw a random buff to something else to make it just as overpowered to compensate and create a whole new batch of problems. There in lies the root of the problem.

I actually disagree with the point that the amount of people with the wrong/poor/useless knowledge hasn't changed, where in fact it has. I see more and more people come out of the wood works with retarded suggestions, or just plain bad suggestions now a days, that I guarantee do not have a higher level of experience than a few pug HA maps, or a grinding a rank or two in RA/AB/TA. There are a lot of players commenting of buffing useless skills with retarded statistics to try and make them good and a lot of retarded suggestions to current skills to try and make them unplayable. The sad part is that most of the players that had a vast knowledge of this game whether it be PvP or PvE have stopped playing or they no longer care due to Anet's past actions in not correcting problems when faced with them. Or the community completely shuts down any and all suggestions as to why the build they so adamantly love or the class they so adamantly love is bad.

boogerboy72

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

[Scar]

N/Me

08 May 2009 at 01:58 - 182

so were the skill updates released?

Apollo Smile

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

[LORE]

E/Mo

08 May 2009 at 02:00 - 183

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogerboy72

so were the skill updates released?

No. For some reason we have 10 pages complaining about an update that hasn't even arrived yet.

(Datura)

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2008

South East

Kiss

E/

08 May 2009 at 03:42 - 184

Wow, there are some people in this thread that hate what A-Net does with Guild Wars.
Either you quit or it's your own fault for accepting a broken game.
Meanwhile the rest of us will continue having fun.

refer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2009

US

08 May 2009 at 04:19 - 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bof

People want balance, but there are 2000+ skills in the game.

Actually 1319 total (1235 for PvP use). I hate the $100,000 tournaments too. That money could be put to better use.

refer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2009

US

08 May 2009 at 04:44 - 186

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The problem isn't that it's too much work. The problem appears to be that the devs have no theory with which to simplify the job. There is clearly no operational definition of "broken skill". If there were, skills like Lingering Curse and PnH that fail any possible litmus test would already be gone. There is no excuse for the persistence of these skills in their present form for five months.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the "We introduced too many skills for it to be possible to balance the game" argument, but the simple fact of the matter is that ways to achieve balance still exist. Once they realized this problem, the devs could have implemented rotating limited formats (eg: no Nightfall-only skills) for GvG to create manageable skill sets that could actually be balanced.

The lack of standards for what a "healthy" meta should look like further complicates matters. The community is splintered into multiple camps that continue to argue over the definition of a healthy meta, and those camps all demand different things. At some point, ANet needed to decide what their vision for the game was and communicate it to the player base to standardize player expectations.

Some sample schools of thought:

1) The game is "balanced" when the classic build archetype of 2 W, Me, 2x Mo, runner, and two other midliners (either a ranger and a caster or two casters) is the only sensible thing to run in GvG. Otherwise it's Build Wars, and that's unacceptable. Skill is defined by who presses keys and clicks buttons best. Top players all run the same build and tactics. Periodically, someone has a good idea and the "standard" tactics alter subtly.

Classic position of those that have been in the GvG community for a while. Always struck me as a self-serving effort to standardize bars so that you have a job and so that you can guest people easily. Still, this is the sort of game the FPS crowd generally wants - perform the same job all day every day. Meshes well with observer mode such that the community can define "good" and "bad" play easily, because people run the same bars.

2) The game is "balanced" when the number of viable build archetypes is greatest. You get good matchups and bad matchups. Skill is defined by executing plans to deal with the bad matchups and win anyway.

This is the Magic: the Gathering crowd's idea of balance. The larger the proportion of skills that see use, the better. Cookie cutter bars are bad; substituting a single skill or two in your team build regularly to keep up with changing frequencies of adversary builds is essential. Ability to press keys well is helpful, but trumped by adaptability.

3) The game is "balanced" when the game is RPS. Ex: In GvG, split, 8v8 and spike builds should all be viable. Split beats spike, but loses to good 8v8 teams that can counter split. 8v8 loses to spike and has to try to split it.

A blend of the above two approaches. Some diversity of builds is preferred here, but bars for the archetypes are standardized and judging player skill is thus relatively easy. You can only lose to Build Wars if you play one style to the exclusion of all others. Tactics remain more or less standardized, but tactics are sharply different when facing each archetype. Innovation occurs in the form of subtle changes to the team builds of the archetypes.

You cannot please all of the above camps. The only sensible solution is to define an objective early on, communicate the objective to the players, and work to maximize it. The disappointed players leave, but you'll get a larger exodus in the long run by disappointing all three camps.

Wow nice post... I think I'd prefer balance 2 or 3 the most.

Chocobo1

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

New Zealand

CoA

N/

08 May 2009 at 07:19 - 187

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportacus

That's an unnecessarily broad generalization.

I don't see much that disproves it anymore.

Edit: It's really tiring to see QQ from all the PvE players all the time. Thats why it ends in a flamewar. Apparently our suggestions aren't valid, and so we don't get a say because we are the minority? Seriously a week late is a week late. If you handed in any of your work a week late, you'd get into hot water right? Same deal with GW. I remember how annoyed everyone was getting when the HoM update kept getting pushed back, there are a few changes that are vital and it's pretty annoying with it getting delayed (RoJ springs to mind).

Bleh, It's hard to explain.

Vanquisher

Site Contributor

Join Date: Mar 2005

Herts, UK

One Hitter Quitters [QQ]

08 May 2009 at 10:52 - 188

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

I have yet to read a High End GvGer state he wants the game to go back into a two W/E shock axes, Ranger, Dom, Air midline, with two monks and Ele runner. That was the so called "Balanced" build and while it was fun and took a great deal of skill to run, no one wants it to be the only choice.

That wasn't the only choice. Not saying I want the game to go back to how it was then, but it certainly wasn't the only choice.

persuadu

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

DTH

R/

08 May 2009 at 11:54 - 189

I hear they are going to bring back the original Ursan Blessing, and guess what, only assasins will be able to use that too! Jeeze, why not combine permaform and ursan for the assasins.

Seriously, I so hope they truely balance Shadowform/Permaform so either nobody can use it or everyone can use it, but just assasins or even just Sins and Eles, that needs to be addressed.

Kotetsu Rain

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Utopia

D/

08 May 2009 at 12:13 - 190

As long as they do something about those overpowered Endurance Axe warriors I'll be a happy camper.

devils wraths

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

the fianna [fi]

E/Mo

08 May 2009 at 12:31 - 191

the guildwars community has changed way to much since 2006 an frankly is the reason why things are like they are.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

08 May 2009 at 12:34 - 192

I see people saying the update better be good or .........? What exactly is the "or what"?

Tamuril elansar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

N/

08 May 2009 at 14:20 - 193

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajc2123

GAMES THAT DON'T HAVE MONTHLY FEES ARE NOT REQUIRED TO UPDATE ANYTHING!

if Anet wants to keep the game alive, and they want people to actually play the game, it does require updates.

Apollo Smile

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

[LORE]

E/Mo

08 May 2009 at 15:17 - 194

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I see people saying the update better be good or .........? What exactly is the "or what"?

They will cancel their accounts!

InfestedHydralisk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

The Netherlands

None

R/

08 May 2009 at 15:18 - 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I see people saying the update better be good or .........? What exactly is the "or what"?

flames all around the world

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

No. For some reason we have 10 pages complaining about an update that hasn't even arrived yet.

because gw today is imbalanced as RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO, thatswhy everyone is complaining

Apollo Smile

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2008

[LORE]

E/Mo

08 May 2009 at 15:21 - 196

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfestedHydralisk

because gw today is imbalanced as RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO, thatswhy everyone is complaining

Yeah. If only we knew of a skill update coming...

Still Number One

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

W/

08 May 2009 at 15:23 - 197

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

That wasn't the only choice. Not saying I want the game to go back to how it was then, but it certainly wasn't the only choice.

And that is kinda the point. The game will never be just 1 choice. Even right now you have various spikes and the no honor build to choose from. It just seems that everytime we try to say we would like the game more balanced, some people get the idea in their head we want them to create 1 perfect build and everyone will run said build until the end of time. I don't know anyone who wants that, and I won't agree with anyone who wants that to happen. Variety is an important aspect of balance imo because you should be able to win games in a variety of different ways. Not just 3..2..1 like it is now (Although you will always have to spike sometimes even in a pure split build).

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

08 May 2009 at 15:26 - 198

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfestedHydralisk

flames all around the world

Just an honest question, what can you do if the update doesn't satisfy you?

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

08 May 2009 at 15:28 - 199

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Just an honest question, what can you do if the update doesn't satisfy you?

Drown anet headquarters in tears.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

08 May 2009 at 15:32 - 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

The sad part is that most of the players that had a vast knowledge of this game whether it be PvP or PvE have stopped playing or they no longer care due to Anet's past actions in not correcting problems when faced with them.

So true. It amazes me how many people either don't know the history of Anet, or know it and expect things will be different.

I am just posting here to mention the XTH update...just another thing Anet considers more important that skill updates.